Pete Rose: The Poll

[LynneSin]

As you know, Pete Rose admits now (14 years later) that he bet on baseball games; although, he says that he never bet on the Cincinnati Reds (he managed them in the late 80s).

The controversy is simple: Baseball League Rule said that any player who bets on the baseball games would be banned from the league. This was first made public after the 1919 Chicago 'Black Sox" scandel where the White Sox bet on the World Series game and actually altared their play. Something like 8 members of that team were banned permantly from the league including Shoeless Joe Jackson, one of the best players of that era.

Pete Rose became a Player/Manager of the Cincinnati Reds I believe in late 1985. Team management allowed him to do both so he could get the career All-Time Hits leader. Sometime in 1986 he hung up his player role and became just the manager of the Reds. An investigation ensued that Reds was betting on MLB baseball games and possible on games that his team, the Reds, were playing.

Ok, I'll be the first to go on record that Pete Rose, THE PLAYER, should be in the Hall of Fame. Maybe I get that belief because I've been a diehard Reds fan for almost 30 years. Or maybe it's because there are all sorts of murderers (Ty Cobb), wife beaters and drug abusers in the Hall of Fame and I don't see where they get to judge Pete Rose.

So here's the poll - do you think Pete Rose should be in the Hall of fame.

[Loonman]

1. Not until "shoeless" Joe Jackson is in HOF

Which will never happen.

[LynneSin]

3. Yes, Shoeless Joe should also be in the HOF

:D

I agree 110% with you on that one!!!

[BootinUp]

2. One of the greatest ever

I say put him in the Hall.

[HereSince1628]

4. I had no idea Ty Cobb was a murderer...

Can someone relate that story briefly.

[maveric]

27. Cobb claimed to have beaten a mugger to death in a Detroit alley.

The guy tried to rob him and allegedly Cobb beat him to death.

[WoodrowFan]

5. Ty Cobb is not a murderer

Ty Cobb wasn't a murderer. Cobb's mother killed her husband after he snuck up onto the second floor roof to see if she was cheating on him. See saw a prowler, grabbed a shot gun and BLAM.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

6. had to vote no

Through his actions he sullied the game. I am a bit of a purist...he was a hell of a player, definitely one of the best...but he trashed any respect I had for him when he first bet on baseball, and then dodged the truth for what, 14 years.

TheProdigal

[LynneSin]

7. What about someone who has used Steriods???

Should they be allowed in the Hall of Fame even though their numbers may have been boosted because of the use of drugs.

What about the corked bat? We should ban anyone who uses cork bats because this also increases the number of homeruns/hits that someone uses?

There are many things that ruin the purity of the Hall of Fame. Gambling is not the biggest issue!!!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. couldn't agree more

if you're caught cheating in any form or fashion...you should be removed from the game. That includes controlled substances, cork, vaseline (on the baseball, you pervs :-) ), fingernail files in your glove, buying off an umpire...you get the idea.

TheProdigal

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

20. Let him in the Hall - He earned that.

But banish him from professional baseball -- he earned that, too.

[PAMod]

21. Bingo. That's exactly what should happen.

Don't let him make a living "teaching" or "leading" today's players.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. I am conflicted.

I voted yes for the obvious reasons. But I have a sneaking suspicion that if I were actually in a position to make a decision about it, I would come down on the side of "he broke the rules, he'll have to live with the consequences".

[Bluzmann57]

10. Voted yes

but with the stipulation that he never be allowed to manage again. It is too easy to manipulate games as a manager. And as far as steroids and corking bats is concerned, nothing has been proven about players being on steroids yet and Sammy got caught corking but as far as anyone knows, he only did it once. In case you can't tell, I am a die hard Cub fan.

[Tempest]

11. Pete Rose raised a very important point

Pete said if he had a drug or alcohol addiction, he would have been suspended for 6 months and the league would have paid for his rehab.

It's a given that gambling is also an addiction, so why is it dealt with so much harshly?

[HuckleB]

12. Those don't affect the integrity of the game in the same way.

It's a bogus comparison, and Rose knows it.

[LynneSin]

14. WRONG!!!!

A corked bat can produce more homeruns

Certain drugs and increase the ability of a player to run faster, throw harder, hit better.

Should someone who cheated to get better statistics considered "Hall of Fame" worthy be allowed in?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

16. NO!!!

sorry to shout, but people who violate the rules of the game, intentionally and to their advantage, should not be allowed into the Hall.

TheProdigal

[LynneSin]

18. Were you "NO"ing at me? I'm agreeing with what you say

:D

[ProdigalJunkMail]

19. just playing

:-) back at ya...

TP

[HuckleB]

33. Pete mentioned addictions, not performance enhancing drugs.

Yes, performance enhancing drugs should be looked upon in the same way, but Pete didn't mention them, nor did he mention corked bats. Sorry, Pete knew full well the history of baseball, and that gambling is the number one no no. He still knows it, yet he offers just another smokescreen. It's pitiful.

[Athletic Grrl]

24. Gambling at the level Rose was...

Has a much more dire effect on the game as a whole than drug use (on which MLB is the most lax of all sports). Allow me to explain...

There is proof in the Dowd Report that Rose bet as a player before his retirement as a player and DID bet on the Reds during his tenure as manager. He never bet when his best pitcher was starting. That surely sends a message to bookies everywhere.

It's far easier for organized crime to sink their claws into you at an early stage when gambling than when drugging. Further, drugging and drinking primarily destroys the addict's performance, but does nothing to infringe upon the integrity of baseball as a sport. While we can speculate on how good Mickey Mantle or Babe Ruth may have been sober, their addictions did nothing to ruin baseball (though of course many lives were ruined, their own included).

'Roids are a different animal. Mark McGwire is 40 lbs. lighter now than when he broke Roger Maris' HR record. Barry Bonds blew up like a balloon in his late 30's, as did Sosa and Bret freaking Boone. THIS infringes on the integrity of the sport and needs to be dealt with immediately. I would have no problem asterisking any record set while on 'roids or any of its deritivates. It's no fair to guys like Willie Mays etc. who earned their spots in the HOF to have their accomplishments tainted by bad science.

[HuckleB]

13. Let's not fall for Charlie Hustle's latest hustle

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/brian_meehan/index.ssf?/base/sports/1073394260156660.xml

"Rose's confession turns me back to a man who embodied the grace and integrity that Rose so recklessly abandoned: Bart Giamatti, scholar, president of Yale and the National League, seventh baseball commissioner.
Giamatti was a poet with his feet on the ground. He loved this silly game and understood its grip on the American imagination. He thought baseball must be bulletproof from betting, which nearly ruined the game in 1919 when the Chicago White Sox were accused of throwing the World Series to the Cincinnati Reds.

...

And for the next 14 years, Rose waged war against Giamatti and John Dowd, the Washington attorney who built the case against Rose. Dowd's 225-page report detailed 412 instances in the first three months of the 1987 season in which Rose, then manager of the Reds, bet on baseball -- including 52 games when he bet on the Reds.

Now the vapid, self-centered Rose is clearing away the last perceived roadblock to his redemption. Before we carry him on shoulders into the Hall of Fame, let's remember a few things."

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/brian_meehan/index.ssf?/base/sports/1073394260156660.xml

Also, this thread/poll is a dupe.

[The_Counsel]

15. I Say KEEP HIM OUT.

The fact that Pete Rose (finally) admits to the crime does not preclude the fact that he still COMMITTED the crime; which does carry a lifetime ban. That's the same as a mass murderer being let off the hook because after all, "he admitted that he killed all those people."

Puh-lease...

Sorry, Pete: the best way to get into the Hall was by NOT betting on baseball in the first place. You blew that chance long ago...

[maveric]

35. He comitted his crimes as a manager, not as a PLAYER!

His consideration to the Hall was for his stats and his level of play on the field. He holds a record that may never be broken and was one of the most intense competitors of all time.

He deserves to be there.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

17. I say

once you start letting players in the hall of fame that take Horse steroids, human growth hormone and god knows what else, to the point where the average baseball player now looks like Dolph Lundgren crossed with a Clydesdale, all morales are out the window and you gotta let Pete in.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

22. Hey!

You don't need steroids to cross Dolph Lundgren with a Clydesdale, and I've got the video to prove it. If you know what I mean!

[DiverDave]

23. I just broke the 32-32 tie

And my take?

NEVER EVER.

He is a liar, and he lied for all these years.

A man admits his mistakes, rose didn't.
He knew what would happen if he got caught, and it did happen.

He gets a big NO vote from me.

Now go away pete, to wherever all disgraced people go.

[Nazgul35]

25. So Daryl Strawberry gets five chances..

after multiple times getting caught....but Pete Rose gets no second chance?

Consider all the athletes who get caught doing drugs, stealing, caught with weapons, shoting people (or being around people who get shot), adultery, physical asult, all get a pass....

I think Babe Ruth actually did at least one of everything in the above paragraph....

Gambling is worse? (Something else Ruth did)

If you are going to enforce laws, enforce them all...

PS: before someone points out that Strawberry was addicted to drugs, gambling is also an addiction....

[DiverDave]

26. Is the issue

of strawberry the hall of fame?
I really believe that rose bet on the reds, how could he not?
Shoeless Joe is still out, you don't think he deserves to be in?
And the babe did it? What?, did he bet on games he played in?
Rose doesn't deserve it, period.

[felonious thunk]

28. The "integrity of the game" argument is laughable

We're talking about the sport that currently employs Bud Selig, former owner, as its commissioner. The same sport that cancels the 94 World Series because of labor problems. The same sport that alternates between owner collusion and skyrocketing salaries, that gets the public to fund new stadiums while shrinking payroll to make profits, and a Hall of Fame that refuses to show a movie because it didn't like the politics of the actors in it.

Baseball has no integrity. The Hall of Fame has no integrity. Pete Rose is the all time hits leader, and he should be in the Hall of Fame at the very least.

[LynneSin]

29. Thank you for that perspective

I never thought of it that way, but now that you've pointed it out I have to jump on this bandwagon. Baseball has no integrity so how can it pass moral judgement on Pete Rose???

[LynneSin]

31. A comment for those mentioning Shoeless Joe Jackson

Although not mentioned in the original post, I truly believe that Joe Jackson should also be in the baseball Hall of Fame. Maybe we could start a new poll on that one - but I'll let someone else do it!!!

BTW, if you're interested Shoeless Joe Jackson Hall of Fame

[HuckleB]

34. None of this has anything to do with the matter of gambling.

Most of it applies to all pro sports, as does the matter of gambling. Sorry, but you're offering red herrings here. Do you really not understand why all pro sports leagues cannot tolerate gambling?

[LynneSin]

36. Sure, who cares if a guy got his stats by using Steroids

Let's put them into the Hall of Fame, I mean they were crafty enough to use the Roids so let's reward them.

No, I'm not buying what you said. I think anyone caught cheating in baseball by using Steroids, Drugs or other substances to enhance their game should be denied enterence into the Hall of Fame.

These have way more of an effect on the game than the gambling and it's a great way to help deter this problem - you're busted on ROIDS? You're out of the game.

[maveric]

30. You cant take away from what he did as a player.

The gambling was done as a manager not as a player, which is where he achieved his fame getting more base hits than any other in the game.

Yes, let him in!!

[Richardo]

32. Here's my brilliant solution - just thought of it last night...

In light of his brilliant career and amazing lifetime statistics, Pete should be given an acknowledging plaque at Cooperstown, OUTSIDE the Hall of Fame. No memoribilia just the plaque.

That way his contribution to the game would not be "disappeared", but he would still not be enshrined in the Hall itself.

Thank you. Send your kudos now.

[Moderator]

37. dupe

Please continue here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=611928&mesg_id=611928