Required vs Optional - support of aging parents?

[Patiod]

My Loser Brother is 52 yo, and in a job re-training program at a community college in NC. My parents are in their 80's in PA. I live about 30 minutes away from them, also in PA.

My dad has been in and out of the hospital, and is now getting rehab/PT in a nursing home. I've been driving my mom to the hospital every day, then making sure she's okay at night. My mom and I don't normally get along very well, but she thinks the sun rises and sets on my Loser Brother, and said she wished he could come up and spend some time with her. I called to relay her request.

He said that even though he's on semester break until later next week that he "can't". He said he's "too broke", even though my parents offered to pay for plane, train or auto expenses. It wouldn't cost him a dime - he's not working, and they don't have any kids.

What it boils down to is he just doesn't feel like it. Well too damned bad. You can't just do what you "feel like" doing - there are certain basic requirements in life, and this is one of them. :banghead:

Why do some siblings feel that helping out our parents is mandatory, and others seem to think it's optional? I'm not asking that he hang out at the nursing home (which "upsets" some people) or put in the time I'm putting in - just that he maybe come up for a couple days and hang out with my mom, who loves him.

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. If your brother doesn't care, he doesn't care.

I don't get it, either, when people who had *good* parents don't want anything to do with them later in life.

Certainly if parents are alcoholic, or abusive, or make life hell i can understand people not wanting anything to do with them, and I applaud those children for telling their parents to go to hell.

Your brother, though, sounds like a shifty self-absorbed putz.

I will disagree with you on the "basic requirement", though - I don't think taking care of your parents is morally or ethically required, even if they were really good parents.

It sounds like you are the one who needs some help - you're taking care of a parent you don't particularly get along well with, spending a lot of time, going out of your way a lot, and doing a lot of stuff for both of the parents, while your brother doesn't help them (or you) at all. I don't blame you for being angry, and I hope you can find a place of calm and peacefulness in the midst of the difficulty. You have my good thoughts!!

[BeFree]

2. Go fly a kite

You state:

I will disagree with you on the "basic requirement", though - I don't think taking care of your parents is morally or ethically required, even if they were really good parents.

Yeah, if you have no morals or ethics, then there is no basic requirement.

[pitohui]

7. i think the poster was making a statement of fact

there is no basic requirement to take care of aging parents and for many fragile people it would mean the end of any chance to care for themselves financially if it came at the wrong time

a fragile 52 year old loser in a job re-training program is not even able to take care of himself, and now a demand is being made on him to chip in time-wise and emotionally

it would be nice if he could do it, but we are talking about someone who has NO inner resources and NO financial resources from the sound of it

if the stress of facing the death of his parents head on and looking them in the eye caused this loser to drop out of his job re-training program or just to flunk out...what has been gained?

some people have all they can do to save themselves from drowning and even then they don't quite make it

just be glad you're not such a loser

it sounds like the mom has forgiven, altho i understand why the sibling is pissed

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. So if your dad beat the shit out of you your whole life, denigrated you,

and barely fed or clothed you, you still have a moral requirement to take care of him in his old age?

I don't buy that for a second.

The parent's ethical responsibility ends when the kid turns into an adult (though clearly the parent is free to extend responsibility as long as they want).

The child's ethical responsibility to the parent never exists. It just isn't there - never was, never will be.

The parent made the choice to have the child. The child never made the choice to have that parent. So even if the parent were loving, kind, good, and wonderful, and the child later decides to sever that relationship, the child holds no ethical guilt.

[Patiod]

16. Spoken like a true Guy

I used to be a hospice volunteer (before my job started requiring extensive travel). Statistically, the guys in the family had your attitude, and the women had mine. Not that I didn't see men taking care of their parents while sis was off doing what felt good, but by and large, women were more likely to be dealing with what needed to be dealt with.

My brother didn't get along with my dad, but that's not the issue - this wasn't an abusive or neglectful relationship, and besides - he and my mother have always been close, and SHE'S the one who needs his support right now.

My idiot cousin pulled the same shit when HIS dad was sick. He "couldn't handle" going to see my uncle in the nursing home, while his sister visited regularly.

[pitohui]

31. well i'm a woman and i'm capable of making a choice based on self interest

i'm tired of being told that only men can look out for themselves and that women expect it of themselves to be the servants of the world and that's why we'll always end up being the ones changing bedpans

[grace0418]

38. I'm a woman and I agree with Rabrrrr completely.

If you choose to care for your mom, by all means that's a wonderful thing and I commend you. But it must be done without comparing your actions and choices to anyone else's. It only makes you feel resentful and frustrated, it doesn't help the situation at all. Everyone is on their own journey in life. Make peace with your choice and be happy about it or find a different solution.

[China_cat]

46. In my family the women would have been more than

happy to take care of my grandfather in his last years. I'd have even gotten an apartment and brought him to live with me if he would have allowed it. But he had seen what it did to his wife to be about the only one (out of 9 siblings living within 5 miles) to take care of her father in the last 5 years of his life after a debilitating stroke and he swore he'd commit suicide before he'd allow that to happen to one of us.

[Midlodemocrat]

20. I agree. You don't have a moral requirement to take care of him.

In a similar circumstance, my FIL basically ignored my husband and our three kids until my SIL was being so abusive to him that we feared for his life.

She got everything. The $600,000 house, all the stocks, bonds, car, furniture.

We got the $10,000 bill for his funeral.

There is no moral requirement to do right by a shitty person, but I have to say for us, and this is JMHO, it wasn't an option. I think I would take in said psycho SIL if she appeared on my doorstep, but I don't know.

[Patiod]

9. Thanks - I'm lucky to have an understanding SO

who makes our small apartment a place of calm and peace (this is a 6', 250-pound aggressive weightlifter, mind you!)

[Midlodemocrat]

I agree with Rabrrrrr, you need to take care of yourself.

Taking care of an ill parent is stressful enough without all the additional burden being placed on you.

I'm glad you have someone in your life to care for you.

:hug:

[Lars39]

3. One of my brothers is doing a similar avoidance...

with him it's because it hurts him so much to see our father in the condition he is in. I don't know if it's a form of grief or depression, self-protection somehow...I just know it's painful for him.
:hug:

[philosophie_en_rose]

4. "Optional"

I think there can be "toxic kids," just like toxic friends or toxic parents. It's so sad, but I wonder if your mom isn't better off.

I love my parents, so I can't imagine not helping them in their old age. However, my older sister (always the victim) had the same wonderful parents, but blames them for every bad choice she's ever made in her life. (For example, they allegedly didn't do enought to stop her from quitting her job. :eyes:). If our parents were in any way abusive, I'd understand her. But I don't get the "Super Sweet 16" (or 29) resentment of my sister towards my parents.

[Patiod]

10. I have friends who are sisters - same story

one is neurotic and blames her parents for everything, the other sister and brother are totally emotionally stable, and think the parents were great

[pitohui]

5. it is optional

there is no law requiring you to take care of someone you're not married to who is over 18

as another poster says, if your brother doesn't care, he doesn't care -- it's a free country and he's free to tell his folks to go to hell, it isn't a nice thing to do but we are not obligated to be nice

don't know what else to tell you

[Courtesy Flush]

6. There must be a name for this phenomenon

I can't tell you how many people I've met who have similar stories about a loser brother whose parents think he walks on water, while the responsible siblings take a back seat. It's almost universal in so many families.

If it doesn't have a name, I'm calling it "The Ron Syndrome". If I'm the one naming it, I'm naming it after my loser brother.

[pitohui]

8. it's the prodigal son

even jesus himself claims that there is more rejoicing over the lamb that lost its way and was brought back than the dutiful lamb who never strayed

moral of the story, might as well enjoy life and be the black sheep!

[Patiod]

11. My mother once asked me what she should serve for dinner

when my brother made one of his once-every-four-year visits home.

I suggested fatted calf.

He does indeed have "Ron Syndrome"

[fudge stripe cookays]

12. I'm having this quandary right now.

My mother and I are completely adversarial. She "dated" a man for a good portion of my life and forced me to keep putting my life on hold because of it. There was so much I wanted to do when I was young and fit and never got to because of her (mostly traveling and furthering my worldly education). Now I have MS, and can't do half of it because I'm not healthy enough.

Many of the folks on DU have heard me talk about how she once told me she wished I'd strangled on my umbilical cord, or that she threatened to drive to Dallas and shoot me a few years ago when I finally had enough of her crap and told her I had no intention of speaking to her again. She makes little barbed comments all the time about how not having kids would have been so nice.

However, my brother, who is 12 years older than me (and lives much closer to her), wrote us both off a long time ago. For whatever reason, she is obsessed with getting him to talk to her again, even though he won't. She drives by his house, writes him letters, and tries calling. She absolutely cannot comprehend that my brother has completely erased her from his life. BUT for some reason, she has added him back into her will. I get squat. I was always the good daughter and was her support system, but I'm freaking tired of it. How come he gets to be such a dick and gets rewarded for it?

This is the same woman who broke her hip in October, and whom we visited for Christmas. I bought her a nice Barnes and Noble gift card (I figured, being laid up, she'd like a good store of stuff to read). reprehensor and I also went to the grocery store, and stocked her up on everything she should need for awhile.

I recently saw a shrink to get over this INCREDIBLE anger and hate I have for this woman. According to the shrink, SOMEONE is going to have to take care of her. But I'm preparing to move to Alberta. I have wanted to leave Texas for many years and never could. Now I can. And I'm preparing myself for the guilt trips that will ensue as soon as I am safely across the border.

I hate not caring what happens to her, but I also hate the fact that I feel any guilt. My brother has gotten to do whatever he wanted his entire life, while I was on a fucking yoke from which I couldn't escape. He had it so easy. And will for the rest of his life. He'll take her money when she dies, but he sure won't show up at the funeral.

I feel for you. I really do.

[Patiod]

19. Yikes! That's appalling.

You have a completely different issue, and frankly, I'd be just where you are in your circumstance.

Also, consider the helping out that you DID do as good for your soul. I'm not a Wiccan by any means, but I do buy their philosophy of "any good or ill you do will come back to you threefold". You put out some goodness (gift card, groceries, etc.) and it will come back to you one day.

My mother and I don't get along, but it's more along the lines of "You're Wearing That" - the book where Deborah Tannen explains why mothers continue to nag their adult daughters. It's petty stuff.

As for the will, I've circumvented that whole thing by telling my parents that if they write my brother out, I'm splitting anything I get 50/50 with him. If they write me out, that's up to them. This was originally done to shut up his nasty manipulative wife, who suspected that I only behave like a human being to them because I was after their money, but it's had a nice effect on my soul and general kharma, so it's worked out well all around.

[fudge stripe cookays]

22. Thanks.

Sometimes I feel like I must be the worst person in the world. The shrink told me I was holding onto the past too much. I did feel much calmer after my visits to her, but I continue to stay angry.

At first I was HAPPY when she took me out of the will. My entire life, she has used money (or my lack of it) to control me. When I finally got my college degree, got a relatively high-paying career, then married reprehensor, it removed all her power, and it drives her INSANE.

She's incredibly manipulative. Knowing she couldn't use the will gave me an incredible feeling of power. But then she TOLD me pointedly about putting my brother back in (she's a piece of work, lemme tell you). She figured this would make me call more often, be more available for her, and come visit more often. Nope, I just find it incredibly unpleasant even being around her.

You are so calm about your situation. I'll strive for your level of zen!

[fudge stripe cookays]

14. A friend of mine put it really well...

Men care ABOUT their mothers. Women care FOR their mothers.

[miss_american_pie]

15. I wouldn't agree that it's a basic requirement

but even if I did, your brother certainly doesn't. And no amount of banging your head into the wall is going to get him to change his mind. It's on him if he's disappointing your mother.

:hug:

[Strawman]

17. Maybe set a boundary with your mother regarding your time

and let your brother manage his own relationship with your parents. You seem too entangled in their relationship. Just out of curiuosity, why do you have to call your brother for your mom and tell him she wants him to come? Why can't your mom ask him herself?

Let him give his selfish, weasely excuses for not giving any of his time to his parents directly to your mother on the phone. Why should you have to feel overburdened yourself and disappointed for her on top of that?

I think sometimes parents, especially older ones, like to dump on the child they know they can get away with dumping on and handle the one they know will abandon them with kid gloves. It's gotta be hard to accept that one of your own kids just doesn't give a shit about you for lots of different reasons. That denial works fine for everyone else in your situation, but it's making you resentful and understandably so. Why should you have to carry around all that negative energy and stress? You need to look after your own emotional well being instead of trying to protect your mom from the sad truth that your brother just doesn't care all that much.

As for your original question, I think it's a reasonable expectation that your brother ought to make some effort to occasionally visit with his mother and dad and he ought to want to help you out as well. It's not an "obligation," but it's the kind of thing a good person would do.

[Patiod]

21. Thanks for your good thoughts

Especially the part about relying on who they can rely on.

My training as a hospice volunteer has helped enormously with stress and oddly enough, has helped me distance myself enough from the situation to be useful. I'm also lucky that my SO provides me a safe & peaceful space, and he helps me look after my emotional well being. I'm entangled because I'm geographically close, and I had the vacation time to become entangled. Now that the holidays are over, I have to pull back a lot - I was trying to cram all the helping I could into the slack time at work.

And I only called my Useless Brother because my mother "didn't want to pressure him" and I had no such compunction!!!

Thanks again for the good thoughts :hi:

[Strawman]

33. My wife has a similar issue with her mom/sister

Except that her mother is younger and totally independent. Believe me, I empathize both with the impulse to try and fix these kinds of things and also how frustrating it is to feel like you get less love from a parent when you're the "good kid" no matter how old you are. I experience sympathy anger for my wife about it sometimes. Hang in there. :hi:

[Phillycat]

25. I agree with every word of your answer.

The issue isn't the OP's bratty brother. The issue is the OP not setting boundaries and setting herself up for (well-intentioned) martyrdom.

[Midlodemocrat]

18. BTDT. You won't regret helping your folks.

And, JMHO, but your mom 'thinks the son rises and sets' on your brother because she is hoping that he will turn out to be more like you.

We took care of both my dad and my FIL. It was wonderful for the kids to see how family should care for each other and although my brothers were wonderful about my dad, my SIL wasn't wonderful about my FIL and she's the reason we had to rescue him physically from her.

We don't regret it. Even all it cost us financially, emotionally, mentally, what have you.

I can almost guarantee you won't either. Helping my dad prior to his passing are some of my best memories of him.

:hug:

[Patiod]

23. I'm taking the same approach Midlodem!

I know I won't regret it, and actually tried to cram in as much time as I could during the holidays before going back on the road for the new year so I wouldn't have any regrets.

And it WAS wonderful for your kids to see the example you set.

[Midlodemocrat]

24. Believe me, I feel your pain. It is so hard to care for aging parents

and your brother's inability to help doesn't exactly ease your burden.

With my SIL, we just came to the decision that she was weaker than we were and unable to put herself out there as we had. I think coming to that decision helped eliminate a lot of my husband's anger towards his parents. I think he finally realized that she simply was a weak person who needed all the things her parents had, but couldn't reciprocate.

Good luck to you. I know this is a hard time. Hopefully your dad will recover quickly and your mom won't be as lonely.

[AngryAmish]

26. It is a requirement

Are some parents bad people? Yes. However people like to lake excuses for themselves so they blame their folks. Grow up - everyone will be old soon enough.

[Midlodemocrat]

27. She's the one doing the caring, she's just venting about her brother,

and his lack thereof. I think you might have misread her post.

[fudge stripe cookays]

28. I'm 40.

Plenty grown up, and plenty pissed about being stuck here my whole life caring for a woman who wishes I'd never been born.

When you've walked a mile in your neighbor's moccasins and all that.....

[begin_within]

29. I take care of my 88-year-old Mom full time, and my sisters do nothing to help. They

all need to sit down with your brother and watch the 1953 Japanese movie "Tokyo Story" - maybe that will shock them into respecting their parents and spending more time with them.

All I can suggest is that you ask your Mom to make the call to your brother to ask him to come and help out or at least visit. Maybe hearing it from her will make a difference. In the meantime, rest assured that you are the one will be unburdened by any guilt in later years, he will be burdened by guilt.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046438/

[Patiod]

35. Oh, he grew up Catholic, he'll be burdened alright!!!

although I was surprised to find out how good the Quakers in my Meeting are at laying on the guilt, too

My guess is that as long as there are mothers, there's guilt. Just because Jews and Catholics have made it a science doesn't mean Hindus, Muslims and Presbyterians, etc. don't have their Guilt Superstars as well.

[begin_within]

43. What I meant was...

he will have the guilt of "I didn't do enough to help my parents while they were still alive."
You won't have any guilt, because you are doing what you should be doing, taking care of them.

[flamingyouth]

30. I feel for you.

I'm an only child, so I can somewhat relate. Obviously, there just isn't anyone else to share the burden, except my fiance, who is wonderful. Right now my parents' health is somewhat stable, but there were a few years of real ups and downs where we thought we might lose my mom and it was very hard. You're in a difficult situation. I totally agree that your brother should visit your folks. :hug:

[azmouse]

32. I think it's optional but it's a good thing to do if you can.

In my situation, my MIL is almost 80 and is going to need assistance very soon. My husband and I have offered her a home with us. I don't want her here but the right thing to do was to make the offer. I don't like her, not one bit. She's been very nasty to me over the years. But if she choses to live with us I'll make the best of it any way I can.
I do believe that we get back what we give. I don't have any children to look after me when I'm older. Maybe by being kind to my evil MIL I'll be lucky to find someone (niece or nephews maybe) to help me when I need it.

Please know that you'll always have the ear of your friends on DU when you need help or advise.
Good luck with your family. :hug:

[Patiod]

36. Thank you so much.

It is a delight to have DU to bounce things off, even the folks who side with my brother!

Good to get all perspectives.

[grace0418]

34. I 'm sorry you're in a sucky situation, but I don't agree that it's a requirement.

It sounds like you are feeling a bit resentful (and understandably so) because your mom favors your brother while you do all the work. That sucks for sure.

But a requirement? No, I'm sorry, I don't agree. Adults choose to have children and therefore willingly take on the responsibility/requirement to care for those children. That's the way it works. Yes, mistakes happen, but there is still always a choice involved (adoption, abortion, etc.). Children, however, cannot choose to be born or have parents. The responsibility is thrust upon them whether they like it or not. Is taking care of one's aging parents a good thing to do? Yes, of course. But there are many circumstances where it is healthier and better for all involved to come up with different solutions.

For instance, my mother kept having baby after baby to fill the void in her life (she was orphaned by her mother and abandoned by her father) and never gave much thought to what her children needed from her. I am the youngest and I could tell by the time I was 10 that my parents couldn't wait for me to leave so they could do what they wanted. My house was sold and my parents gone before my third week of college was over. When everyone else went home for Thanksgiving break, I had nowhere to go. Which is just as well, I suppose, because I had to work extra to pay for school (monetary help from them for college? HA!)

Then my dad died and she couldn't do ANYTHING for herself (can't drive, can't write a check, can barely figure out how to dial a phone) so she had to depend on me and my siblings. When she lived near me I visited her, I drove her to doctors appointments, made sure she had food and items for her house, helped pay for her housing, etc. But was it a joy to be around her? Not at all. She is so self-absorbed she doesn't even listen when you talk to her. She just waits for the next opportunity to tell one of her tired stories over and over again. Then she'd call up my two oldest sisters and complain that my two brothers and I (the only ones who lived by her) weren't doing enough for her, weren't visiting her enough, she hated her apartment, blah blah blah.

So my two oldest sisters thought they could do a better job at making her happy and had her move near them. But it turns out that NOTHING makes the woman happy. Absolutely nothing. Now they're all up in arms about how the other siblings should be helping out more and how it's our OBLIGATION to visit her more often. Sorry, homey don't play the obligation game. My mom felt very little compulsion to take care of me, the daughter she CHOSE to have, so why should I be obliged to care for her? It was one thing when she lived a 45-minute drive away. Now she lives a 4-hour, $300 plane ride away. I will send money and stuff she needs, but I'm not going out of my way to visit her just to listen to her complain.

Some people make their own beds in life. And they get exactly what they deserve.

[fudge stripe cookays]

37. Unless...

your mom was Catholic in the 50s and 60s (like mine), and really enjoys reminding you how there WAS no choice in those days. :eyes:

I loved your post, btw. Thanks for it. :-)

[grace0418]

40. Thanks and you're welcome.

I just read your story and I'm sorry to hear about it. I hope you find a way to get out of that toxic relationship. It sounds like your brother made the right choice, unfortunately for you.

Please try to understand that it probably isn't easy for him, though. Sure it's not the same as the hell you are living with a mother like that, but it's also difficult to realize that you have no real relationship with your family and never, ever will. It's a very lonely feeling.

I always thought that my mom would die first and I would finally get a chance to have some relationship with my dad without her dominating every conversation with her constant bids for attention. Then, when my dad died first I foolishly thought that *maybe* she would do what she forced all her children to do (from a very early age) and become more independent. What a laugh. She became even more infantile. We actually call her BabyWoman because there is no other way to describe her. It's not like she's stupid, or horribly handicapped. She just refuses to take ONE ounce of responsibility for her own life and her own happiness. She must've learned early on that playing the ditzy female card got her a lot of attention and cannot break from that.

So even though my mom is alive I mourn for the parent I never had and never will have. It's a very difficult thing to realize. And, because there always will be part of me that does feel guilty for not being the perfect care-taking daughter, I also will always struggle with feelings of guilt even though I know I made the right choice in distancing myself.

:hug:

[fudge stripe cookays]

41. You are awesome.

And also very strong for making that decision. It took me 30 years to realize what a toxic person mom is.

I'm convinced God has a very messed up sense of humor. I would have done ANYTHING for my dad. Absolutely anything. We adored each other. I was a daddy's girl so much that my mom was jealous of it when I was young. Figures he died young and left me with her.

But like you said, people make their beds. Then they can lie in them. I'm getting the hell out of this state at last. Not sure what she's going to do when I'm gone, but I'm tempted to not even provide a phone number. That will become her only lifeline, and believe me... that sucker will be ringing off the hook.

[grace0418]

44. Do what you need to do to take back your life. It will always be hard and

it will always make you sad, but you have to have a life that is your own. Good luck, I'm glad you're getting away from that person. She doesn't deserve a daughter like you.

[Left Is Write]

39. I really feel for you.

I don't think any of my siblings would view care of our parents as "optional" - we'd all do whatever we could. It worries me a lot as my parents age, because I live so far away. Two sisters and a brother live near enough to them - one sister actually lives only about half a mile away. They would never want for love and care, but I would feel horrible being 1200 miles away an unable to do anything tangible.

Anyway. I know that doesn't help with your situation, but you have my thoughts and best wishes. I hope your brother has a change of heart.

[Patiod]

42. Thanks LisR!

I do not expect my brother to drop out of school, move here, etc. I just thought that since he's on semester break and my mom offered him money to fund the trip he might come up for 2-3 days and hang out with my mom and cheer her up -- she's always been one of his biggest fans.

Some of the posters have read abuse, neglect, etc, into the situation. I'm not suggesting that he plunge back into some hideous abusive relationship (as some of the posters have had to deal with), quite the contrary --- I'm suggesting that this woman has ALWAYS thought he was super - always supported him, always understood his "sensitivity", always thought he was brilliant and funny and wonderful - why wouldn't he want to spend some time with her when she needs him? He and my dad had all the usual dad/son issues, but his relationship with my mom has always been a pretty good one. So my dad isn't around - why not take advantage of it, and come visit for a tiny tiny sliver of time? I just don't get it.

I'm hoping he has a change of heart too (it has happened before).

As to your parents, I'm sure they understand the problems created by geography. You're lucky to have 3 siblings nearby!

[Book Lover]

45. If they supported you, then you should support them

If they abused you, you have no obligation to them. Pretty simple, really.