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Can I get some feedback on this prologue?

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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-02-07 11:53 PM
Original message
Can I get some feedback on this prologue?
I posted this prologue I wrote a few years ago in the writing group. I'm wondering if any of you would like to read it and give me some feedback, because I'm exploring ways to improve it. Thank you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=216&topic_id=4172&mesg_id=4172
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kick.
Anyone at all? :shrug:
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qnr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Bookmarked, I'll read it later. Busy day, going to bed soon n/t
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thank you. I appreciate your doing that.
:hi:
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some guy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm sorry,
I can only critique really bad writing. :)

As a prologue, it seems a bit long but I have read long prologues before. I stumbled over the foreign names and phrase, but that's normal for me. I usually settle into those after 60 or so pages. The world you're creating is fairly-well sketched out, in that it has a sense of cohesion, even though you've only done sketching so far. Mostly, I'm drawn into the story enough to want to continue reading.

:hi:



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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Okay, that's great.
Thank you!
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Redbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
5. I think it is very good.

My advice:

1. The sheer volume of the descriptive details kind of overwhelms the story. You might want to hold some of the details for later. There are some great details though. I love that she wonders how the Mentus could hold an entire faith.

2. I love the beginning and how it ties in with the rest of the story. She is royalty, the most anyone might wish for, but she longs for something different. You might add more here and less in the middle.

3. The names are hard to keep straight. More reference to their role (father,mother, prisoner)instead of their name might help keep that straight.


So do the A-bisinians accuse the Ni-bishicrats of wanting to raise taxes and cut and run from the great war?
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thank you!
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 12:26 PM by Writer
And yes, when I rewrite this, I will likely cut down on some of the more flowery descriptions.

LOL... the A-bisinians certainly are a rather limited, judgmental set, aren't they?
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. once it's posted on the internet it's likely not publishable
Edited on Wed Jan-03-07 01:37 PM by pitohui
my husband lost an important novel contract through doing that, the editor argued strongly for him but ultimately couldn't prevail over the others on the board who were turned off that a lot of potential readers may have already seen it

i just skimmed but it seems good enough to be publishable, so don't spoil your chances, this is a pretty small portion presumably, but don't post future portions is what i am saying

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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I'm not worried about that at all.
As it will be rewritten.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. Assuming you want real advice and hope you do not find this too brutal.
Really excellent writing is often misleadingly easy to read: the author's labor, however painful or protracted, is simply invisible in the final product. So sentences should generally use simple grammatical constructions, with no unnecessary words, and each sentence or paragraph should introduce only a limited number of ideas. There WILL, of course, sometimes be good reasons (associated with the rhythm of the language or the development of the story) to incorporate awkward or complicated syntax, extra words, or a clutter of concepts -- but the exceptional passages will be more expressive if the surrounding text is designed for easy reading.

A standard way to limit the number of ideas is to enforce unity of time and place, with very few references to locations or events or people other than those under immediate consideration. This unity CAN certainly be violated, but again there should be a good reason. A brilliant example of the rule broken is the first sentence of Marquez's Hundred Years of Solitude, in which the Colonial, facing a firing squad, remembers a day years earlier when his father took him to see a novelty (ice); and the reader remains curious about the story of the firing squad for quite a while, since the book only returns to that story many pages later.

Let me now comment on just a few examples from your prologue to indicate what I mean.

"Ni-bishicratza, the twentieth day of the month of Dex, in the year 217" throws three curiosities at the reader: "Ni-bishicratza" (which might be a locale or the name of a holiday), "the month of Dex," and "the year 217." The significance of none of these is immediately clear, and simplicity might suggest cutting this entire date-time stamp -- or, if it is ultimately essential to the color of the prologue, moving the date-time stamp to the VERY END of the prologue, where it does not serve as an initial hurdle to readers.

"Virasha Di'uhmar, the Sah'lara of Ni-bishia, fidgeted with her gem buckle, fastening tight the vestigus that hugged her thin frame. The long narrow weave of winding burlap warmed her bones and granted her a much needed sense of security."

Here, again the reader faces curiosities: "Virasha Di'uhmar," " Sah'lara," " Ni-bishia," and "vestigus." Perhaps the full name "Virasha Di'uhmar" could be simplified to "Virasha" or even replaced by "she" at this point; more detail can be introduced as necessary, and for providing the name, it might be smoother to have the reader learn her name when someone calls her by name. Similarly "the Sah'lara of Ni-bishia" could be omitted here, it being entirely unclear whether "Sah'lara of Ni-bishia" refers (say) to a political official (Sah'lara) in a locale (Ni-bishia) or an officiant (Sah'lara) of a religious cult (Ni-bishia). "Vestigus" is one of the cases of the Latin "vestigium," and (although it seems to suggests "vest") is not an English word for a garment; the neologism does not serve any obvious important purpose in the text and could perhaps be eliminated completely. It is odd to see a gem buckle against burlap, a rather cheap and coarse fabric, which would not really be of much use for keeping a person warm, unless another (much less drafty layer) covered it. So here we have a person, of strange name and obscure title, wealthy enough to have gemstones on her belt and yet perhaps so impoverished and cold that even burlap is a comfort.

The number of new ideas introduced at every turn is bewildering. The rest of the prologue takes her from this dark room (where the winter wind comes through the open window to reassure her), down a hallway, and into the throne room, where an expected execution is replaced by a banishment. Some of the questions, raised above, are eventually answered -- but then the inquiring reader will have many more: the reason Virasha needs a "sense of security," the meaning of "deceit crept into the cold air," why "she wished .. to leave the land," what "she would soon witness" and so on. While a limited amount of uncertainty (say, an essential unanswered question and one or two minor unresolved points) might propel the reader forward, many unresolved matters may simply produce exhaustion. A similar comment applies to details: almost every detail should appear for a specific reason.

So here is my advice (worth, as usual, exactly what you paid for it). (1) Figure out in what one place or over what very short period of time the prologue takes place. For example, it might begin when she walks out of her room and might end when she enters the throne room. (2) Ruthlessly cut out and set aside anything except the most passing reference to events other than her stroll down the hall -- except perhaps to the fact that she fears she is responsible for a sentence of death. Things she sees walking down the hall should produce only the briefest partial reactions from her: she can walk by the meditation room unused since her grandfather's time, for example; but the rest of that particular story would be out of place. (3) The prologue should be told from a single point of view: if you adopt Virasha's view, rewrite sentences, like "Winter shadows crept through an open round window, dancing in the cold like lonely star spirits," so that they reflect Virasha's view. (4) Take out EVERY unnecessary word. When you include a detail, ask yourself how that detail moves the reader to the next sentence, moves Virasha down the hallway, and moves the reader to feel familiar with Virasha. (5) The prologue probably should not tell a complete story. It should leave a major tension unresolved and one or two questions in the reader's mind. (6) Read your prose aloud to yourself. Ask if rearranging sentences or substituting words would produce a better rhythm. (6) The next chapter might not begin where the prologue left off. It might, for example, tell of the population's reaction to the banishment. Or it might tell part of the story leading to the Virasha's long loneliness.

A minor point: a blank line between paragraphs often helps if text has not been professionally typeset.

Best wishes! - s4p

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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thank you for all of your great insight.
This is a first draft, actually, so there is much work to be done. Your mention of the unity of time and place is a brilliant concept that I haven't heard since AP English in high school ;)

Another confusion is that the 'foreign" words above are italicized in the original document, including the word "vestigus" which I adapted from Latin. I know that this departs from your overall point regarding simplicity, but I would hope that the italics would indicate something otherworldly. However, if limited this language would make the story more salient to the reader, then that is something I should investigate as I rewrite.

Again, thank you for the effort you put into this. I will certainly keep much of your feedback in mind as I rewrite.

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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. What others have said.
(1) Ditch the flowery descriptions. They bog you down, tend to be unnatural, and jump out at the eyes of any reader with experience--and not in a particularly good way. The best writing is economical and more subtle (like breathing) than what you have there. Don't worry, though--I overwrite myself consistently, a habit I am always ripping at and which requires much trimming away.

(2) Quite frankly, I thought this had a lot of over-description--a lot of telling, not showing. With fantasy there are always things that need to be explained, but it just...didn't...work in places.
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thank you.
This is very helpful.
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ZombieNixon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well...
It doesn't really seem like a prologue to my mind. I would expect a prologue to either tell a portion of the story which is rather disconnected from the rest of the story (either by time or space) - this may be the case; I obviously don't know without reading the rest - or to sketch out of the basic details of the setting for a fantasy piece. What you have throws the reader into the plot right away and seems like a first chapter.

Also, as others have said...lose the flowery prose. You can tell the same story without any adjectives or adverbs. Go back, take out every ad-anything, so all you have are nouns, pronouns, verbs, and prepositions, then add back only the adjectives or adverbs that you really need.

And, the linguist in me cringes at the ubiquitous punctuation that seems to be part of the constructed language. It's tempting to insert apostrophes and hyphens to make a fictional language sound alien, but how exactly does one pronounce the letter ' ? It throws the reader for a loop because it obviously represents a sound not present in our own language (or does it? It could stand for no sound at all, in which case why have it there?), but what sound? You don't want the reader to dwell on silly questions like that, so ditch the apostrophes, unless it's made clear that they serve some kind of explicit function. The language won't seem any less alien without it.

Good luck! :) :hi:
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. And thank YOU!
Also very helpful. :)
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ZombieNixon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. May I ask...
what kind of story it is? Obviously it's fantasy, as shown by the setting, but it terms of plot, is it epic adventure? Romance? Mystery?
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-03-07 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I would say it's...
a political and societal conflict, with a little bit of epic adventure.
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