Some advice, please?

[Mythsaje]

I have a rather personal issue I'd like to discuss with you all. I bring it to DU because, as far as I can tell, this is the largest group of insightful, empathetic, and intelligent people I know and I hope you all could give me some thoughts on a problem that I may be looking at in the next few years.

My oldest son is 12. He lived with me until he was four and then his mom took him away and froze me out for six years. Despite this, the bond we formed in his early years is extraordinary powerful.

He already wants to come live with me. For various reasons, this isn't likely to happen any time soon. His mother is absolutely against the idea, but there will come a time when it's no longer her choice.

This isn't really the issue. When the time comes I believe I can talk her into it. The rancor that existed between us for so long has mostly evaporated. We know each other very well and have reformed something of the bond that brought us together in the first place as friends.

No, the problem here is really my wife. She's not very maternal and never wanted kids of her own. When the boys visited me this summer, she dealt with it, but she certainly didn't enjoy it like I did. I loved having them here, particularly getting the chance to renew my bond with my oldest. He's thoughtful and introspective, and reminds me (and my wife) a lot of me. His mother thinks so to, which I'm sure irritates and frustrates her to no end.

When the time comes, he WILL come live with me. There's no way I can tell him no. Plus I would LOVE for him to live with me. The emotional issues that still plague him are ones I can understand. His anxiety problems are very much like my own. I know what's going on in his head. I'm not sure that being with me wouldn't do more in the long run than the several years of therapy he's been through.

My wife pulls a face every time the subject comes up. She's made it pretty clear it's something she doesn't want, and would pretty much only accept it if it was unavoidable. When the time comes, I'd like to make it unavoidable.

Sometimes I feel like I'm in a tug of war between my son, his mother, and my ex. Talk about frustrating.

My son has my eternal love and loyalty, and I certainly wouldn't want to alienate my wife. My love and loyalty to her is no less than that for my son. I just wish I could figure out the path to take to clear the way for something I believe is inevitable, without ending up in a war over it.

Any thoughts?

[cynatnite]

1. It sounds like you've pretty well made up your mind about this...

and given how much you love your wife and son this can work. She'd go along, but wouldn't be happy with such an arrangement.

I would suggest family counseling to help ease the difficulties. There is bound to be resentment your wife will have to work through and any strain on her and your marriage, your son is bound to feel, too.

on edit: paving the way now will go a long way in helping the situation when the time does come.

[Mythsaje]

4. I've got a couple years, at least, to work on it...

And considering that I agreed to let her nephew come live with us without question, should it have become necessary (which it didn't) I think I've got a little capital.

[pnwmom]

2. Mind if I ask a question?

How long have you been married -- and were your sons involved in your life when you became close to her, or did you meet her during the period when your ex wife "froze you out"?

I'm wondering, in other words, whether she knew when you married her that you eventually hoped to get back together with your boys?

[Mythsaje]

Self-delete Dupe

[Mythsaje]

self-delete--dupe

[Mythsaje]

6. We've been married five years...

and she knew that eventually they'd be back in my life. We were going to go to court to make it happen if we had to. We didn't, as it turned out.

[pnwmom]

8. Was she more open minded about it at first?

Also, wanted to mention a couple of good books that you and your wife might want to look at.

"Get out of my life! But first will you take me and Cheryl to the Mall?" A very practical parenting book for the years you're entering.

And

"The Highly Sensitive Person" (with a subtitle something like ''How to cope when the world overwhelms you")

Explains the upside and the downside to the kind of personality you and your son (and many creative people) seem to have; and how to help that kind of personality fit into the outside world.

[Mythsaje]

11. I'll write these titles down...

I think a lot of it is fear on her part. It's a control thing to a certain extent. Children are too unpredictable in a lot of ways and it makes her nervous. And the fact that he's so much like me is both a good thing and a bad thing. She can appeal to his sense of fairness, but, on the other hand, he's likely to be VERY stubborn if he feels he's being pushed.

[pnwmom]

13. Is your living space big enough for all of you?

Because mess and teenage boys kind of go together.

[Mythsaje]

14. It is, actually...

Once we clear out one of the rooms and get it set up, anyway.

[Kiouni]

3. 12 and 16 are worlds apart

I mean when you say the situation becomes unavoidable and you child can choose he will be 16, right? That's a pretty big change and would take some considerable change in parenting from that of a child to a teenager on your part. I wish you success.

I am currently trying to convince my brother to leave his wife and take full custody of their 1 year old baby. The situation draws parallels with yours but you seem to be in a much happier place. My brothers wife has been having an affair but now shes says its over (but her lover and her are still "friends" and its ok) she is trying to start a rock band and all of this eccentricity is do entirely to the fact that she does not enjoy the life of a mother. As for your wife even if she does not share that connection it still seems like she is a good mother which is probably why you are still friends. What I am trying to say is it sounds like your kid is good hands.

[pnwmom]

5. Actually, some judges will let the child choose

the parent to live with at the age of 12. There's no rule about age 16, at least in the states I have known about.

But it's definitely true that there is a vast difference between those two ages. Twelve - fourteen is a really hard stage, even under the best of circumstances.

[Mythsaje]

7. I anticipate he'll make it likely to happen within the next two years...

I don't think SHE is ready to deal with a teenager, particularly one that's likely to be as stubborn and difficult as he is likely to be. He's enough like me that she's going to find him very difficult to control.

I can deal with a teenager. I've done it several times, and he's not going to have the reflexive rebellion against me he's going to have against her. I'm far more likely to sit down, communicate, and negotiate things than she is.

[pnwmom]

9. Do you have older children too? Are they near?

[Mythsaje]

12. I've only got the two...

Him and his little brother.

[Alamom]

16. This is the answer to your situation, maybe even more than you

realize now. Which parent will be the best for him in the next few years?

Everyone has different circumstances and problems, but the child and how his life will be affected should be the first consideration.

You see that and seem to know for certain, he will be in the best hands with you. This may not always be the case, but it is with many fathers and sons, especially in this age group.

We had a similar situation with father & son, but different circumstances.

When I met my husband, he had a 9 year old son. He had been divorced and out of the child's life, except on week-ends for 5 years. Early in our relationship, before marriage was discussed at all, my future husband told me he wanted his son to live with him. He had always wanted him.

The difference; the Mother was not so great. She was not a bad person, she just couldn't figure out how to include a growing boy in her lifestyle. Also, I wanted him to live with us, too.

We knew there would be a lot of adjusting and learning to be a family....and there was.
We managed, we figured it out and we made it.

That decision was made 30 years ago. Our son is 39 now and he turned out well with a great father to teach & guide him and a stepmom who had time for his life.

All families have different problems and hurdles and it's not always easy and smooth sailing.
I don't think you can plan to make everything perfect.

I do think both adults need to be sure and willing. I hope you'll be able to work this out for your son, your wife & you. I can tell you want him to be with you and he needs you, too.

It can work.......

[Mythsaje]

17. His mother has done a good job so far...

I can't say I've agreed with every decision she's made, but that's about par for the course. But I do think he's going to need me. They like their (current) stepdad, but who knows how long that will last? Besides, my son and I have a lot more in common than he does with his stepdad.

[jannyk]

10. I have been in exactly this situation

except I am the 2nd wife (stepmother) and the child was girl. My husband and 1st wife divorced when Stephanie was 6 months old. We met and started living together when she was 2. I never wanted children and had/still have not a maternal bone in my body.

We had many, many big blowups over challenging custody - almost divorced. Your wife will never feel the same way about your son you do and you have to be very careful not to make it an ultimatum - bad idea.

I can give you an awful lot of insight into her position, and some hope if you want to PM me - too personal for here.

Stephanie is now 25 and I am closer to her than her Dad. Oh, he loves her more - unconditionally and she reciprocates, just like you - my love will always have conditions. - But I'm the one she comes to with problems or for advice and we have many secrets ;) The 3 of us are off to Paris for Xmas - so it can't be all bad - but the road was rocky.

[SoCalDem]

15. Your wife knew you were a father when she married you.

end of story. You will be a father to your children forever, and if you want him to live with you and he wants to live with you, she will just have to accept it and make the best of it.

the sad part is that the non-custodial parent starts to "look really good" to the children , just as the start to be a real pain in the ass (teenaged years usually ).. But there is hope.. When they become young adults, you can have a great new relationship with them

Good luck..

One thing that might help is to go into couple's counseling, so that when the time arrives, you both will have already started the procedure and she will have vented :)

my .02

[Mythsaje]

18. The teenage thing really doesn't bother me...

I'm good with teenagers. I've helped raise two already (my first wife's) and I've mentored several others. It's been good training for what I've known was coming since my oldest was born. I didn't expect it to turn out quite this way, but since when did expectations have anything to do with reality?

It'll a bit different with my own kid, I know, but I have been lucky to learn a lot through observation and my own experiences with other kids. If it's all possible, direct confrontation is counter-productive. It breeds defiance. Better to offer options and make them feel like they're being allowed to make choices in their own life than to hand them ultimatums that are ultimately useless.

It helps to treat them like you know they're smart and will make the right decisions once they have all the facts. And then you make sure to give them all the facts.