Cyclists vs. drivers: A rant

[prolesunited]

It's been unseasonably warm in Chicago and I got new long underwear and balaclava for Christmas so I've been out riding. I've been using the trainer in my basement and although it's a drag, at least I don't have to deal with inconsiderate drivers.

Sometimes, I think they actually have it out for cyclists. The light is red and sure you can make a right turn, but NOT into me!

Although I ride on a paved trail, I do have to use the streets to get there from my house. I have every right to actually use the street (although I avoid it as much as possible), so why do SUVs try to bear down on my tail and force me into the gutter or on a collision course with the curb.

The trail I use cuts across streets and some points. These crossings are well marked. So, I'm there crossing and what do the drivers do. They actually SPEED UP! as if I don't move faster, they'll get me. Sorry, I don't want to play chicken.

There's this one crossing where there is a stop sign about a half block up the road. During heavy traffic times, vehicles get backed up waiting there turn. You see a cyclist waiting to cross and know that 20 feet away, you're going to have to stop anyway. Would it be so hard to stop sooner and let the cyclist cross?

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:


Anyone else have these problems? What can be done? Drivers who do this to cyclists, what say you? Can't we please share the road?

[demsrule4life]

1. It is a good rant

I quit riding a bike because of the problems you have. The health to safety issue just isnt worth it.

[Padraig18]

2. I hear you!

I prefer to ride my bike whenever it's practical to do so, and I have encountered the same stuff! :grr:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. I agree but it does cut both ways

I ALWAYS look out for both bikes and motorcycles. Since I drive a convertible and almost always have the top down no matter the weather, I ALWAYS give them a sign that I see them or wave on motorcycles if I am on the freeway and see them wanting to split lanes.

The only issue I have is when cyclists ride side by side in the bike lane and swing out in traffic or use the left turn lane and ride in the middle of the lane rather than the outside. I do slow down for right turns but the thing that irritates me is when I am approaching a light and signaling to make a turn...cyclists are supposed to follow the rules of the road like everyone else..that means if I am the vehicle in fron then they need to slow so I CAN make my turn.

[Snow]

4. I'll tell you, I feel a lot safe in Pasadena than I ever did in Omaha...

Lotta bike riders here. And drivers are a lot more considerate than they were in Omaha. In Omaha I'd get everything you got plus yells and stuff thrown at me. Not every day or even every week, but often enough that it was a worry. Been here in LA now nigh unto two years, bike-commuting 10 miles daily, and never so much as a rude gesture. Angelenos are nice people, even if they do have this weird thing about not drinking tap water.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. LOL Tap water???

Fish f*#K in that!

[PsN2Wind]

6. Having lived in Eugene

Oregon for years, a very bike friendly city, I can attest to numbers of very inconsiderate bikers. That's not even considering those who go out on a regular basis with the INTENT of disrupting automobile traffic.

[Logansquare]

7. i hear yah, proles

I haven't rode my bike in Chicago in about 5 years because of my fears that I'll be knocked down and run over by a speeding Durango. My husband still commutes by bike though, and I try not to wring my hands too much when he heads out in the morning. My perception of some drivers is that they do what ever they want to unless it involves hitting a vehicle larger than the one they are operating. Then there's the cell phone crowd...hell, other objects are invisible to them!

Some of the previous posters are correct though--there are many bikers who act like dicks and inflame drivers who already don't understand the concept of travelling without 2 tons of steel. I would like to personally arrest every schmuck who rides on the wrong side of the street or who weaves in and out of traffic. I don't think the bicycle will really be accepted as an adult transport method by the public until cyclists are forced to follow traffic laws.

[diddlysquat]

8. A radio station in my home town

actually gave out suggestions to motorists on how to 'get' bikers. Things like getting just ahead of them and then slamming on the brakes, the obvious one of throwing things at them, etc. We have too many SUVs that feel like they own the road. Scary.

[oldcoot]

39. Yes, I heard about that

"Radio personalities" in several towns gave tips on how to get bikers. I think that the stations were all owned by Clear Channel.

[pmbryant]

9. The only thing that will fix this, in my opinion, ...

is to get tons more cyclists out there on the streets so that drivers become accustomed to our presence, and realize cyclists have as much right to the road as cars do.

Meanwhile, though, I am very uncomfortable with urban riding, and try to do almost all my riding out in the country on lightly-traveled back roads.

By my argument, though, I should be doing more city riding. Hmmm....

:crazy:

--Peter

[amazona]

11. yes you need tons more cyclists out there

When driving, the issue is...you see what you expect to see and in my area I do not expect to see cyclists. It is scary. I don't want to kill or scare anyone, and it scares me just as badly when there is a near miss.

As a cyclist, I am very cautious and have greatly reduced my biking time because people either don't see me or they are wolf-whistling or cat-calling my ass and either way it's a hazard.

[prolesunited]

20. There is such a movement

CRITICAL MASS

Critical Mass is a monthly bicycle ride to celebrate cycling and to assert cyclists' right to the road. The idea started in San Francisco in September 1992, and quickly spread to cities all over the world. This site attempts to be the most complete guide to local Critical Mass rides around the globe.

Critical Mass has a different flavor from city to city -- there's a big variety in size, respect of traffic laws (or lack thereof), interaction with motorists, and intervention by police. So if you want to know more about Critical Mass, you'll really need to find out what your local ride is like. For those who must know more right now, here's a link to St. Louis CM, which I suppose is a "typical" CM ride, if there is such a thing.

Critical Mass has no leaders, and no central organization licenses rides. In every city that has a CM ride, some locals simply picked a date, time, and location for the ride and publicized it, and thus the ride was born.

CM is an idea and an event, not an organization.

http://criticalmassrides.info/

They have rides in Chicago but I haven't been able to participate because it conflicts with my work schedule.

[pmbryant]

26. Day-to-day, small groups

I had more in mind just a general day-to-day presence of many bicyclists on the roads in small groups, not a big event with hundreds or thousands of cyclists a few times a year.

There aren't any such rides in San Antonio right now, but there are some in Austin apparently. I read about those Austin CM rides via that website you provided and, unfortunately, they don't sound like the kind of event that instills goodwill between drivers and cyclists.

Here's some of the commentary (from 2001 apparently) from one fellow who was apparently one of the early organizers of the CM Austin rides in the early 90s, who had become disillusioned with the event and quit participating:

http://bicycleaustin.info/newsletters/2001-10-31.html#today

Early CM was certainly wild, but it wasn't typical for cyclists to go out of their way to piss off motorists. Now, however, it's more common for cyclists to yell at motorists, and seem to look for any excuse to start an argument. I stopped riding CM in October of last year after what happened on that ride. Before the ride I had addressed the crowd and encouraged them not to be confrontational and not to do things that would openly invite the police, such as taking up every single lane on every single roadway. After I spoke, someone else stood up and invited everyone to ignore what I had said. The crowd seemed more receptive to his message. On the ride, cyclists actually stopped in the middle of the street and faced traffic while straddling their bikes, just because they could. One motorist, frustrated by the delay, ran over my bike and knocked me to the pavement. (Sound familiar?)

One of the silliest things some CM'ers do is to ride as slowly as they can in front of a vehicle, practically begging to get hit, and then to act all surprised, shocked, and indignant when a motorist accidentally bumps them. Now, nobody harps on injustice to cyclists louder than I do, but it has to be real injustice. Trying to get hit and then having it happen just barely isn't injustice. It's just stupid.

(snip)

Around 1996 we started a "CM-Lite" ride that would follow traffic laws, in response to all the people who said they wouldn't ride Critical Mass because not all riders obeyed all the laws. The result was a phenomenal failure: We only got a tiny handful of riders, and the ride lasted only a few months.

Sounds like a good idea has taken a turn for the worse, at least in Austin. :-(

--Peter

[HuckleB]

27. Here's an organization that should be repeated across the nation.

http://www.bta4bikes.org/

As for CM rides, one has to remember that the cyclists who go out of their way to provoke others are a small percentage of a small percentage. Unless we are going to label all drivers by the behavior of those who run cyclists down, it's hardly fair to label all CM riders by the behavior of these few.

[pmbryant]

29. Perhaps Austin in an exception

Chicago's rides certainly sound better than Austin's recent ones, based on my quick reading about them. Here's a good article from 2002 on the Chicago CM ride and the various pros and cons of different methods of bike advocacy there:

http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org/media/echo_magazine.html

Maybe you've heard stories about Critical Mass -- that it's a group of militant bike advocates who hate cars -- with factions in almost every major city in the world, including Chicago. Or maybe you've seen the propaganda they sticker across the city on stop signs ("Stop Driving") and the backs of SUVs ("I'm changing the world's climate -- ask me how.") Or that their monthly rides entail blocking traffic and harassing downtown motorists during rush hour.

Truth is, these advocates have fun as they deliver their message around town on their two-wheelers. Mass' message is simple : By taking your bike to work and on other simple errands, you're benefiting your health, the environment and doing your part to alleviate the city's overwhelming parking and traffic problems.

Every last Friday of the month, about 150 people and their bikes gather around the Picasso sculpture at Daley Plaza in the Loop. At a typical ride in 2001, the mood was festive as a souped-up low rider sped by, followed by an antique from the 1920s, the kind with the seat perched awkwardly above a giant wheel and a tiny wheel to the front. Across the way stood a sleek, black, custom-built bike with 4-foot metal flames shooting from the rear. Another bike had a giant pickle strapped to the back while another played circus music from speakers in its rear basket. The atmosphere was friendly, as a ponytailed man was hard at work patching a stranger's flat tire.

(snip)

Although critics may question its tactics, the group has definitely gotten some attention and demonstrated a solution to Chicago's burdensome traffic, congestion and parking problems. "We're not trying to start anything with the cops," Redd says. "But if arrests are made, we get more attention and that's the whole point -- we want to be heard."

EDIT: And here's a link to the more "within-the-system" Chicagoland Bicycle Federation, discussed in that article: http://www.chibikefed.org

[HuckleB]

10. You said it.

Yeah, as one poster replied, we need far more cyclists on the road. In general, we need a serious PR education campaign to create the understanding that cyclists have a right to the road.

There's a great article in this month's Bicycling magazine about a little experiment conducted in Portland, Maine. 50 people were given bicycles to do with as they chose. The results speak volumes. Increased bicycle use could go a long way toward eliminating gridlock, obesity, heart disease etc... in this nation.

[curse10]

12. Well... I'm sure you might follow traffic laws

but I've never, not once, run across a bicyclist who followed traffic laws. Red means red. Even for people on bikes. You can't be both a pedestrian and a bicyclist at the same time.

I primarily take public transportation now that I'm in Boston, but in Denver it was a huge problem. Then they'd stage bike ins and block traffic for hours- not a good way to get drivers to love ya.

[HuckleB]

16. Thanks for the usual sweeping generalization.

The same can be said of automobile drivers, of course. But for some reason, it's not. Why is that?

[midnight armadillo]

35. Different stakes

The same can be said of automobile drivers, of course. But for some reason, it's not. Why is that?

I HATE bicyclists in Boston. I've seen them pass me on the right IN THE RAIN AT NIGHT while I'm signaling a right hand turn (that was one lucky asshole, I nearly drove over him), go the wrong way up one way streets, bolt through intersections against the red, ride on sidewalks etc.

Bikes lose when they hit cars. They are also harder to see from inside a car than the other way around, as well as more nimber and prone to sudden moves. The burden of caution is on the bike, not the car. I love seeing bikes that signal their turns, obey the traffic lights, and wear (at least) helmets. I'm happy to share the road, but so many people on bikes ride like completely reckless brainless morons that they really don't have a leg to stand on when they then complain that the city is not friendly to bikers.

[prolesunited]

37. Guess what!?

I do wear a helmet ALWAYS, signal my turns and obey traffic laws, but guess what? Drivers still want to run me down.
:mad:

[HuckleB]

68. The burden is on both. Bikes have a right to the road.

If you fail to share the road with respect, you are responsible for your actions. Period.

[camero]

73. LOL, like cars follow traffic laws.

[GURUving]

13. Nighttime, Daytime, Anytime

turn on a headlamp and a flashing red light up high in the back (on your backpack maybe?)

I've only had my bike mangled once in many years of catastrophe avoidance.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. Even though you haven't said a word to them

they unconsciously see you as a rebuke to their car-centered lifestyle.

[KG]

15. get a mountain bike and get off the streets.

curb hopping much safer! :)

[HuckleB]

17. Cyclo-cross, baby! Cyclo-cross!

[Logansquare]

22. Not to pedestrians, it ain't

I've told more than one adult cyclist to get the hell off of the sidewalk before they kill a child or an elderly person.

[HuckleB]

23. If they're riding unsafely, kudos to you...

however, in most places, cyclists have a right to the sidewalk.

[Logansquare]

40. It is illegal in Chicago for riders over the age of 13

Not that that stops apparently healthy young men from barreling down the sidewalk. I have had a grocery bag knocked out of my hand by one of these sidewalk riders, and saw another hit a baby carriage. Baby was unharmed, thankfully.

[HuckleB]

59. In all of Chicago?

Or just certain parts?

[Logansquare]

66. Yes, here's the Chicago city ordinance:

9-52-020 Riding bicycles on sidewalks and certain roadways.
(a) No person shall ride a bicycle upon a sidewalk within a business district.

(b) No person 12 or more years of age shall ride a bicycle upon any sidewalk in any district, unless such sidewalk has been officially designated and marked as a bicycle route.


(c) Bicycles shall not be operated on Lake Shore Drive or on any roadway where the operation of bicycles has been prohibited and signs have been erected indicating such prohibition.

(d) Whenever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway.

(Added Coun. J. 7-12-90, p. 18634)

Mind you, it's widely ignored and uninforced, except in cases where neighborhood groups have raised a stink.

[Snow]

31. Pedestrians? thought those were extinct.

[KG]

34. i don't see too many.

gotta use the sidewalks in someplaces, i like livin'.

[HuckleB]

60. Head north sometime.

There are plenty of pedestrians outside of Californian and the rest of the sunbelt. Funny how you all have to hide from the sun so much that you can't even get out and walk around now and then.

;)

[HEyHEY]

44. If you wanna ride a bike on the streets..move to Bejing!

Just kiddin' I heard that joke somewhere I thought it was funny.

[BiggJawn]

18. I feel MOST fortunate!

Never been subjected to a game of "Butt bump with the mirror" out here in the sticks. I think the F-350 jockeys don't want to scratch their paint or something.

I don't ride bike paths. Can't. They're too clogged up with people walking dogs and couples pushing those SUV-sized baby buggies...And they're in the next county south, so I have to go 14 miles to play on them anyway....Pedestrians are ruder than motorists, IMO....

Must be SOME long undies! I'm waiting for 55 or 60 before I venture out....

[HuckleB]

24. Snow cycling!

http://www.bikewinter.org/bikewinter0102/main.php

http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,5073,3263,00.html?category_id=364

[BiggJawn]

42. Oh, that brings back memories!

I was snow-biking before knobbies were invented. We grew up thinking ALL kids rode in the snow. Big balloon-tyred Schwinns and J.C. Higgins bikes....

I have a set of 27" knobbies, but we've had NO SNOW this year...Just been "dusted" a few times...

[corporatewhore]

19. How Dare you challenge the suv

The suvers probably think you are a terrorist because you are not polluting the air and using your own two legs how un american

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. Damn, beat me to it. Now I'm unoriginal.

I hate when it happens. :silly:

[underpants]

21. Ready to get really pissed off?Clear Channel DJ's promote hitting cyclists

This is the best link I could find, I posted this a few months ago.

It seems that several morning Clear Channel DJ's (CLeveland, Houston, etc.) took to encouraging listeners to call in and brag about hitting cyclists and to laugh about possibly doing it. The original article is in italics at the link below.

http://www.ihpva.org/pipermail/hpv/Week-of-Mon-20030707/031397.html

[camero]

74. Can I sue Clear Channel when I get hit?

[jonnyblitz]

25. You would love Amsterdam

They cater to bike riders. that is the primary mode of transportation for most there besides the excellent public transportation. All the roads have side elaborate paths for cyclists along side them. ALL of them. It took some getting used to having to look both ways for not only trams and cars but cyclists too but it is worth it.

[Robb]

28. My solution with the EBike

...somehow I think folks figure an 80 pound bike might cause a dent. I get plenty of room around me, mostly... or maybe it's the DU sticker. :)

Also the big battery makes for a really, really bright headlamp and tail light.

[Nailzberg]

30. Same deal on my bike path.

Daley has always been very accommodating to cyclists, pushing for more bike lanes, and promoting bike to work days, stuff like that. Unfortunately, the cabbies and the SUVs think the bike lanes are for passing other cars!
I would love to see traffic units start stopping people for that.

When I lived in Chicago, I stuck to the lakefront path, which was pretty safe, except for the Trixie's and their chocolate labs on weekends.
My other regular path is the north shore forest preserve one up to the botanic gardens.
Now I'm in Springfield, and I didn't both to bring a bike with me because I'm only here temporarily. I'm thinking about getting ahold of one, though, the town is small enough to get around and I can stop paying for parking.

[prolesunited]

32. I don't live in the city proper

But I do enjoy the bike path. It does get a little crowded on the weekends, but with the exception of the tourists, most people know how to act.

Here's some pics from this summer:
http://homepage.mac.com/prolesunited/Through_My_Eyes/PhotoAlbum32.html

In fact, I'm heading up to Village Cycle Center today to buy a new road bike and it's "warm" — well, at least the sun is shining ;-) — enough that I'll take it on its inaugural ride on the lakefront path.

[Logansquare]

41. Trixies? You must have lived in Lincoln Park! n/t

.

[Nailzberg]

56. Yep, and Andersonville, too.

Of course, now I'm in Springfield, waiting for the day I can move back north.

[bikebloke]

33. Take their tag numbers

I'm a year round cyclist as my main mode of transport. For some of these drivers it's cowardly arrogance. They try to run you over, flip a gesture and roar off knowing you won't catch up. Though one was caught in traffic a block away. When I reached him, he turned into a sniffling coward. I let these creeps see me taking their license numbers, then they can wonder.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. Getting from point A to point B without enriching oil companies...

...HERESY! COMMUNIST! FAG! PINKO! LIBERAL! You... you... DEMOCRAT!

[HEyHEY]

43. Cyclists are hypocrites

I have seen cyclists treat people walking just as bad as they say they get treated by people driving. I have seen them cut people of, go around them with an inch to spare, and generally disrespect them. Cyclists, motorist, pedestrains all need to learn to respect each others safety

[pmbryant]

45. How can a group be hypocrites?

Some cyclists are disrespectful of those around them, no doubt, but the particular cyclist ranting here is not one of them.

Only individuals can be hypocrites, and certainly there are a few such cyclists who are reckless and yet demand better treatment. But most cyclists who seek better treatment on the road are as respectful of others' rights as their own, and are no hypocrites.

--Peter

[HEyHEY]

46. Well, then we can't generalize every car driver either

But as a group, that is my opinion based on what I have personally seen happen.

[pmbryant]

47. That's right

We can't generalize every car driver either. In my experience, it is only very few drivers who act aggressively towards cyclists on the roads.

But given the numbers of cars out there, and the fact that it only takes one accident to seriously injure or kill the cyclist, we have to be very worried about those 'very few' drivers, as we are likely to encounter several even in a relatively short ride.

--Peter

EDIT: grammar!

[HEyHEY]

48. DO they have "Critical Mass" in the states?

IT's a biking group in Vancouver that blocks the road once a year as they slowly ride everywhere.......trying to proove a point I guess but I think it is bad PR personally.

[pmbryant]

49. Yes

See the subthread starting at post #20 above:

I think I agree that Critical Mass is not the best PR move for cyclists, at least in certain cases. I am not familiar enough with it to have a very strong opinion about it, though.

:shrug:

--Peter

EDIT: put link inside text

[HuckleB]

70. I'm not a fan of CM.

However, those who would make a sweeping criticism of it without reading Travis Hugh Culley's "The Immortal Class" and the compilation "Critical Mass: Bicycling's Defiant Celebration," edited by Chris Carlsson are likely in need of information that they don't yet possess.

[Logansquare]

50. Look, ***holes drive, ride, jog, rollerblade AND walk

However, the bigger your vehicle, and the faster you travel, the more chance there is that your jerkiness will hurt or kill someone who is not similarly protected. Cyclists need to be taken seriously as real transportation, but part of that is following traffic laws as well as being protected from motorists who don't want to observe their rules of the road.

[HEyHEY]

51. What about skateboarders?

They aren't assholes? Hmmm? ;-) just teasin' ya

[Logansquare]

52. Oh yeah, BIG-time, to insert a political reference n/t

:-)

[HuckleB]

58. There are bad cyclists.

But, I'm sorry, as a driver, cyclist and pedestrian. Drivers as a whole get my rage because they don't pay attention or give a rip about either pedestrians or cyclists, as a whole, by comparison.

[BiggJawn]

64. What are the walkers doing in the road?

Yeah, I know. I came up on one at night once, dinged my "Ding-Ding" bell, called out "Passing on your LEFT!" and the asshole side-stepped to the LEFT.

He was walking WITH traffic, not against it, and was also strolling down the middle of the lane. If I had been in a car, I might not have seen him in time to avoid making him a hood ornament.
So, who's the hypocrit here. Sidewalks are for pedestrians, "bike paths" are for joggers and kids on skates (at least it seems that way here) and the non-seperated "bike lanes" have the biggest collections of tyre-busting stuff in them I've ever seen.

You know what pisses me off the most?
People on bikes at night with NO lights.
Those damn reflectors don't cut it, folks.
I carry a 20 Watt Halogen on the front, and flashing LED's and a Xenon strobe to the rear.
You WILL see me....

[jobycom]

53. Some guy here tried to run down Lance Armstrong

In Austin, back before he had cancer but while he was still well known, some pickup tried to run down Armstrong and his entourage out of raod rage. I think he was convicted of something. Details a bit fuzzy.

I ride, and drive, and believe me, I get pissed more at bikes when I drive than at cars when I ride. When a bike takes the road, it has the same responsibilities as a car, and the same rights. Cyclists know the part about rights, but not responsibilities. Many of them blow stop signs, and many believe they should have the right to. I've had cyclist friends claim that cars should stop at green lights to let cyclists blow through red lights. I've watched cyclists on campus blow stop signs and cause accidents. I watched one guy hit a woman crossing the street. She fell down. He stopped, saw that it was serious, and took off. I know other cyclists who delight in taking the lane and forcing two mile traffic backups, claiming that they are protecting the environment by making it harder to drive a car, but rather overlooking the fact that they just made two miles of cars run their engines longer.

It works both ways. As a cyclist, it is rare that I have a problem with cars. But I stop at signs and lights (full stop, not that skip a peddle stroke stop), don't take the lane when I can avoid it (and I always can), and try to respect drivers as much as I hope they respect me. And they do.

I'm not sure about your specific situation, and maybe your place is different. I'm curious about your crossing, though. Are you trying to ride through it without stopping, expecting the car to do what you want, or are you stopping and waiting for a chance to cross?Because if you are complaining that they don't stop for you when you are trying not to stop for them, perhaps that's the problem.

[pmbryant]

54. Austin cyclists seem like a rowdy bunch

See post #26

What's in the water there? ;-)

--Peter

[jobycom]

67. Maybe it is Austin.

Cycling is big here, and it is an anti-establishment town. The university has 50,000 students, so there are a lot of youngish, poorish, rebellious sorts here. The above post was what I observed about Critical Mass, too, and that attitude that bikes should try to slow down cars is common, as I implied in my post above. The city builds a lot of bike trails and bridges to help alleviate the confrontations, but they are still there. Maybe other cities have different problems and attitudes, I couldn't really say.

[prolesunited]

55. Interesting how I've been called out

directly or indirectly as a reckless or inconsiderate cyclist. I don't think anything in that post should have given anyone that impression.

As a matter of fact, I took a safety/rules of the road quiz at the last Chicago event in which I participated and got a perfect score and won a free T-shirt. Not only do I know the rules of the road, I actually follow them.

I am not a reckless driver nor am I a reckless cyclist. If anything, I'm not assertive enough, always giving the others the right of way.

In regard to the intersections, I come to a complete stop and patiently wait my turn. In some instances, when I see an opening — and I'm timid so it's usually a big opening — and start to cross, some drivers actually speed up. Who knows, I was thinking they could let up off the gas a little so as not to try and scare the shit out of me.

In the other situation, I am standing there waiting for as much as 5 or 10 minutes waiting for a break in the line of cars. Sometimes I can only get across when the cars get so backed up that they have no choice but to stop and I can squeeze between them. I was just hoping they could stop a car length or two before they are forced to in order that I could cross.

Oh, and FWIW, if a driver does happen to give me a break I always wave to them to acknowledge their kindness.

Now, would you care to continue to tell me how these situations are my fault or how I'm provoking them?

I'm not saying there aren't idiot cyclists, nor was I trying to assert all drivers are inconsiderate and reckless. I went for a ride and got teed off, hence the title: A RANT

[jobycom]

61. Was asking, not calling you out

I asked if you stopped or blew through the crossing. You answered. Obviously you aren't the problem. As I said, maybe it's different where you live.

Sorry if you thought I was attacking you.

[HuckleB]

57. Sorry, but I don't believe that you ride.

Anyone who rides regularly knows full well that the few insane cyclists that get pegged and stereotyped upon us all do not make up for the consistent lack of consideration given to cyclists by motorists on the whole.

Sure, there are bad cyclists and bad motorists -- and good, as well. But your post indicates a great lack of observation that does not mesh with anyone I've ever met personally who actually rides and drives. That's why I think you are full of it on this one.

[prolesunited]

62. Nevermind

I responded to something not directed at me. Ooops!

[jobycom]

65. I think he was saying I was full of it, not you.

At least that's how I read it. But then, people have claimed the Carly Simon song was about me. :-)

[jobycom]

63. Wanne see my bike?

My pedigree: My grandfather owned a bike store in New Orleans. I've been riding since I was a small child. I've been taking bikes apart, fixing them, and modifying them since I was eight or so, with varying degrees of success. I ride trails, I ride on the street, I pulled my first daughter in a Burley Solo (check out my Epinions review of it) until she was big enough to ride a Burley Piccolo. With my second daughter I had to cut back a bit on riding, because my wife doesn't, and I can't pull both kids at once. In my garage now I have six bikes, a Piccolo, and Solo I will be selling soon. And a couple of bike racks, child seats, tons of helmets (every kid on my street has a hand-me-down from us). And for many years I was a contact on Austin Cycling Association's web page, but I drifted away from them.

I don't ride as often over the last couple of years, as I've said, but I used to ride every day, at least ten miles, and for a while in grad school my bike was my only transportation. I had a car, but not enough money for gas, usually.

And anyone who actually does ride bikes knows that their are only a few insane motorists out there, as well. So now you've met someone personally who rides and says what I do, so you can't say that last line of yours anymore.

[HuckleB]

69. Now I really don't believe you.

Your last paragraph is so full of horeseshit, it's not even funny. Thanks for showing your full cards with that one. Now I know you don't ride.

[jobycom]

72. What part of it?

This is so odd, what specifically do you think is BS? And have you ever been to Austin so that you know at all what you are commenting on?

And how long have you been riding and driving?

[idontwantaname]

71. DIFFERENCE BETWEEN POOR DRIVERS/CYCLISTS

YES! there are poor drivers and inconsiderate cyclists...

the main difference between the two is cars are DEADLY!. bikes are not.

like Mr. Miyagi said... a drviers license does not replace eyes and brain!

drivers... while sometimes careful often feel a sence of entitlement to the raod.. like because theyre bigger or a majority that it is ok to rule the road... and for those who disagree than i challange you to get your ass on a bike and drive a morning commute on a busy wide 1.5 lane road(no sidewalk) in a major city.

they do exist.

any offers?

[jobycom]

75. Good point.

I wonder at the intelligence of cyclists and pedestrians who act as though cars should yield for them. Look at a car. Look at a bike. Who's going to win? And that's assuming the car even sees you. You can be right, and still be squashed.

One reason a car seems to assume a sense of entitlement, is because it is harder to stop than it seems from the outside. Know how hills that you don't even notice in the car make you groan on a bike? Same with stopping distances. They appear much shorter outside the car than in it. And in rush hour you have a car behind you, so if you just slam on the brakes, you might get hit.

Both groups need to notice the other a bit more. I've got no respect for a cyclist who taunts cars or a car who endangers cyclists. Both are Republicans, to me.

[camero]

76. I only use the car to go to the grocery store now.

And I'm loving it. Except for the confrontations with rude car drivers. Even when I drove a Big Rig, these cars thought they could push me aside. Not very bright messing with a 40 ton vehicle. They don't care about the size of the mode of transportation. They just think they own the road.

The great part about my bike is it lowered my cholesterol count and my triglycerides have dropped from 135 down to 84. Just in 1 month. Amazing.

[beyurslf]

77. It's hard to share the road when you're driving a

shiny 2 ton tank, which car makers call a pretty SUV. After all, only those who buy 50K cars that get 12 miles to the gallon actually deserve the streets. Let the rest of us schmucks walk if we want.

[happyslug]

78. How bad is the traffic?

In Johnstown (Our Motto "Rush hour should not last more than 5 minutes") traffic is light (The town is dead, no jobs, no cars, no traffic jams).

Now I have biked elswhere (Pittsburgh 1970s, lat 1980s, Corpus Christi in the early 1980s). What I noticed is where traffic is "tight" i.e. a lot a red lights, a lot of stop and go traffic, cars are the least consident. The driver's nerves are on edge and want to take it out on not only bicyclist but other drivers also (I also see this with bicyclist, they are more willing to violate basic traffic rule when traffic is "tight", I believe for the same reasons cars caused them trouble, the constant stop and go traffic just causes you to be on edge and you do stupid things becasue of the tight traffic).

Thus the problem is NOT cars per se, but the traffic congestion casued by having so many cars on the street. Critical mass is this NOT the solution for it is feeding into the congestion NOT solving the congestion by getting people out of their cars and onto bicycles.