Why do people lie and cheat on their significant others?

[Herman Munster]

I've always told my girlfriends when it was over and I was interested in someone else. While it was painful I think they appreciated me being honest with them.

To me, it's always been about common courtesy. I would expect nothing less if one of my girlfriends was interested in another guy. The last thing I want to do is put someone at risk by fucking around on the side and bringing back home a disease or getting a disease from my girlfriend.

I'm still very good friends with one of my ex-girlfriends. We found out we are only good together in moderation. As a couple, we tended to suffocate each other and things just got too intense, but when we are both lonely or depressed or just in need of some companionships, we become friends with benefits every now and then. It's a good arrangement for both of us. Surely beats picking up creepy people at clubs or bars.

[Shine]

1. Because they have no personal Integrity.

it's just that simple.

:hi:

[crim son]

3. You'd be wrong.

But I don't want to talk you out of your black/white point of view. That might confuse you.

[Shine]

4. You're right, I'm confused. do you think it's OK to lie and cheat to your SO?

:shrug:

[crim son]

6. It depends on when was the last time your SO

slammed your kid's head against the table and then kicked him, literally, across the room. Sometimes the truth hurts. You. Or your kids.

Sometimes it's not only okay, it's necessary to lie. As for cheating, it's still not black and white. It's certainly not a matter of a complete lack of personal integrity.

Understand people much? :shrug:

[jobycom]

7. I wouldn't call that cheating. Cheating implies the other partner is playing fair.

[crim son]

10. As the repukes have shown us all, what's fair to some

is intolerable to others. But thank you jobycom. I take this particular subject v. seriously and get furious when I perceive a judgement based on a skewed, if traditional, point of view. Maybe I was a bit too harsh. Oh well.

[amitten]

20. That's when you LEAVE. Period.

I mean like even if you're on the streets.

Don't cheat...leave. Cheating doesn't stop child abuse.

[Common Sense Party]

97. Hear, hear. Snogging with some stranger is NOT the intelligent

response to domestic abuse.

That has to be the dumbest post I've seen in weeks.

[hippywife]

22. I don't believe that the OP

was referring to such dire consequences as you describe. I took it that he was posing the question within the frame of a relationship where things are not so ugly, otherwise the composition of the question would have differed greatly. It seems that was the way Shine read it, too.

I don't hang out here enough to know what the story is on your recent troubles, only enough to know that you are having them from little bits I've read here and there. I'm sorry you are dealing with some terrible issues and really wish such things didn't happen to people.

It's quite possible we all read things like this within the shadow of our own personal experience and that is what colors what we take away from the question and use to form our answer.

Shine is one of the more beautiful, sensitive souls on this board, and probably in the world, so I really do think an apology to her is in order for being so flip at here right out of the box without a little discussion.

I wish you healing and happiness. :hug: :hi:

[crim son]

28. If Shine is beautiful and sensitive, then perhaps she

understands how I might take offense. I haven't got it in my heart to apologize when she suggests I am completely lacking in integrity. End of story for me.

I need a fucking break from this place. No offense, and thenk you for our hug. -Lisa

[hippywife]

31. I don't know where you are getting

that she would know how or why you would take offense. Nothing she said was aimed at you personally and you did not illustrate your point of view or discuss it with her. Instead you responded beligerently with her right outta the box and said nothing more.

I think you took the whole thing very personally without it being meant that way. I saw nothing in the OP or Shine's response that was aimed at you at all, let alone mentioned you. You made one huge quantum leap by invisibly inserting your own personal experience and then didn't expand on it until she admitted you had her confused. If you go back and read that original exchange, you might see that.

Maybe a step back, a deep breath, and a little perspective are needed.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

32. Shine made a blanket judgemental statement condemning those who have cheated.

There are thousands of reasons why people cheat. Those who have cheated should not be condemned without knowing their personal circumstances.

I say this as someone who has both cheated & been cheated on. I was wrong to have cheated on that person, just as the person who cheated on me was wrong. On the other hand, I have a friend who cheated on her husband and it turned out to be the best thing she's ever done.

[hippywife]

37. The OP didn't

give any qualifiers on his question. He appears to have asked it from the perspective of a "normal" set of circumstances - one person loses interest in the other or is interested in someone else. She answered it from that perspective, as I would have also. Instead of explaining how your circumstances came about and why you felt the way you do, you just got all snarky and insulted her instead.

People wonder why GD is in such chaos all the time and this is the reason why. People don't discuss things. They just take things personally and snap at the other person.

How hard would it have been to say that under normal circumstances you would have usually agreed but gone on to explain why in your case, or your friend's, it was (or felt like it was at the time)justified?

The word "cheating" in and of itself conotates a misdeed. You have gone on in your last post to say it was wrong, so there may be the source of your taking offense. You seem to have become defensive for reasons totally your own.

I'm truly sorry you are in such hurtful circumstances, but that is not reason to take it out on someone else. Peace starts with each one of us and how we handle personal interaction with one another. It will never be accomplished if we see attacks where they don't exist and feel we need to be defensive.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

38. Umm...I'm not in hurtful circumstances.

I cheated on somebody because someone hot came along. I had an ex cheat on me with her ex. I would say both of us were wrong.

My friend that cheated had a really shitty husband, who pretty much demanded that she be Donna Reed. She cheated on him with a nice guy from her master's program. Shortly afterwards, she left her husband and she now owns a house with the nice guy she had an affair with. She's happy now, which she never was before. I'm happy that she got her life together and found a man who respects women.

I'm not taking anything out on other posters. I'm simply calling Shine on her comment about people who cheat.

[hippywife]

39. Please just read

the OP and see he wasn't talking about any extraordinary circumstances.

Cheating is always hurtful to someone.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

40. Earth to hippy...I am not talking about the OP. I am talking about Shine.

As for it always being hurtful, yeah it hurt at the time. Does it hurt now? No.

Therefore, I am not in hurtful circumstances.

[hippywife]

42. I think we both got a little

confused. I thought I was responding still to crim son. Sorry!

But still, being in a relationship does mean having respect enough for the other person not to cheat on them for reasons totally of one's own or setting out to hurt them. That is what the OP was referring to.

[ScreamingMeemie]

59. Even in the giving up of one's own self respect??

This is not a simple issue with normal and abnormal circumstances. My father had respect for my mother, she had none for him. He was the one who ended up cheating. Wrong, but it has nothing to do with his integrity and everything to do with the my mother's. :hi: And no, it's not really what I would label a situation that was abnormal or containing extenuating circumstances that would place it outside of Shine's, or the OP's comments. :hi:

[Zomby Woof]

83. Hey, but...

Someone hot came along! :eyes:

Which proves Shine was right in the first place. :thumbsup:

[Shine]

62. I didn't know stating my opinion would raise such strong reactions.

I agree, it's a complicated issue, but the bottom line is, cheating hurts people and in my opinion, is wrong and involves acting without Integrity.

However, as I've stated earlier, I would also argue we ALL act without Integrity at various points in our lives. It's who we are, part of being human.

We make mistakes, we forgive ourselves, we move on...

Peace...

[datasuspect]

85. and i don't think you are painting with a broad brush

there is a difference between particular actions and who a person is as a whole.

to construe what you are saying as being a broad based attack on who any individual person is in sum, is all or nothing thinking.

[Shine]

88. Yup, you and I are on the same page with this one.

:thumbsup:

[crim son]

93. "It is because they have NO personal integrity."

What the hell else does a person have if not for their personal integrity? This isn't a broad smear? I've made my peace (I hope) with Shine, but maybe this is all just a misunderstanding about the definition of the word "integrity." Ya think? :eyes:

[datasuspect]

99. or maybe a lack of adequate qualifiers?

[crim son]

36. I appreciate the counseling,

but I believe you are missing the point. Shine is not the OP. She said that people lie and cheat, "Because they have no personal integrity. It's just that simple." I responded energetically and pointedly, using my personal experience to give my thoughts some weight, because I know I am not devoid of personal integrity. She made a black and white statement in response to the OP, and she was wrong.

Believe it or not, I am not an ignorant fool, and I have thought about this issue long and hard. I have thought about how words like faith, integrity, honesty, and marriage apply to my situation - which is, by the way, not uncommon. And it's not simple. It's not black and white.

There are other "understanding" responses to my post. I can't even begin to explain how simplistic I find them. Walk a mile in my moccasins, and then ask me to feel bad about expressing how I feel. You would not be able.

Peace.

[ScreamingMeemie]

55. But crim son was not the only person offended. I totally disagreed

with her response as well. And my reasons for it were far different from crim son's. I think this thread illustrates that one cannot file this under one heading.

[Shine]

45. Thank you for your kind words, hippywife.

:hug: :loveya: :hug:

[buddhamama]

25. what you are describing is child abuse

the person should have been in jail not a relationship.

[stlsaxman]

35. That's when you call the police.

ANYONE raises a hand to MY children they are no longer an "SO"- they're a criminal. Period.

[Shine]

44. Wow, it was not my intention to offend or upset you. I am sorry if you were, crim son

I was simply expressing my obviously different opinion, NOT attacking you personally. Your response to me seems a bit harsh, but I understand you have been hurt in the past and I'm sorry for that, truly.

In the painful and emotionally complicated situation you describe, I can understand having to lie to protect one's child, as one is making the motions to leave the abuse....but cheating is a whole different ballgame, however. Cheating hurts other people and, in my opinion, is a big break in Integrity.

I think it gets complex because the word "Integrity", itself, means so many different things to different people. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/integrity/#1

It's interesting and I can understand how it can trigger so many different value judgments. Sigh....if only Life weren't so complicated.

Again, my apologies if you felt offended. It was certainly not my intention. I wish you Peace. :hug:

[crim son]

78. I think of myself as having made a grotesque

mistake. However, had the man I loved and cheated with loved me back I would be with him now. My husband has shed ten tears over the revelation of my love for the other man, and they are tears of offended pride and nothing more. If we had a loving marriage, none of this would have happened. But my response has more to do with my contempt for generalizations than anything else. I've been asked to apologize for sounding harsh, and I was having trouble because I have personal integrity. I have been an unusually fine wife and mother for sixteen years and you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who disputes this, including my MIL, who knows of the lover. My husband, who wants a divorce, also comforts me virtually nightly for the fact that I fell so horribly and ruinously in love with another man who didn't love me back, for how much pain it has caused me, and for how it has forced us to face the reality of our failed marriage. My husband, the offended, does not question my personal integrity but rather the integrity of the man who used me to repair his own disastrous situation.

You know part of the story and it's goddamned complicated. But it's only one tale of woe and there are so many. The generalization wasn't fair.

Anyhow, I accept your apology and offer you my own, for sounding angry when I was. I have no doubt you did not mean to offend me personally and I am sorry for attacking you when you were offering your honest opinion. -Lisa

[Shine]

87. Hey, we all make mistakes crim son. Forgive yourself and move on.

:hug: Life is too short to let our mistakes hold us back from Happiness and Love.

We learn from them and grow in Wisdom, letting go of what no longer serves us.

I imagine, in your heart of hearts, you have gained a lot of personal insight about yourself and what you want/need in a relationship through this painful experience.

In that way, it can be viewed as a positive one, albeit painful, because of its growth potential.

The Light of your own inner Wisdom is a beacon in the Darkness, guiding you to the truth of who you are.

So shine on, friend, and know you are deserving of abundant Love and Joy....as we All are. :grouphug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. I respectfully disagree. My father cheated on my mother after 39 years

because of mental anguish. Because he had been raised to believe marriage was forever, because my mother threatened suicide the first time he left...because of a myriad of things that just cannot go under the label of personal integrity. :( It hurts that people would think that of such a good man.

[Shine]

56. I'm sorry about what happened with your parents, Mrs G.

:hug: I appreciate that we can express our differing points of view and still be friends. I know you love them both a lot and I meant no offense toward your father for the choices he made. I KNOW he's a good man because he helped bring you into the world.

But, personally for me, when one cheats on somebody they are in relationship with it is hard to see how they are acting with Integrity and Balance.

However, I would also argue ALL of us act without Integrity at various times in our lives. It's part of being human, afterall. I view the quality and virtue of Integrity as being in total alignment of Mind, Heart, Body and Soul....easier said, than done, obviously! :D Nonetheless, a good thing to strive for.

We do the best we can, given our circumstances...we forgive ourselves for past mistakes and move on. Life happens....:grouphug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

60. It is my opinion that, at that point, my father acted with integrity.

I know it sounds crazy, but my mother is the one without a shred of integrity. :hug: and she never stepped outside of the marriage. She never cared and nurtured it from within either. It just was. I think we cannot make statements on these things because they are too blurred. I'm kind of sorry the OP asked the question because it is just not answerable. :hi:

[Shine]

65. Yeah, who knew it would instigate so many strong feelings and reactions??

:shrug: I sure as hell didn't!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

67. .

:eyes:

[Deja Q]

23. It's because people who don't get much are more likely to be haughty.

Well, that's what I've been told. :shrug: (but in reality, some people CAN be faithful and even avoid the urge to cheat. It truly is about integrity, and it is as simple as that.)

[crim son]

29. Et tu, Hypno.

Strangely painful.

[datasuspect]

47. you see, an anwer like that doesn't allow someone who behaves poorly

the option to rationalize their shitty behavior.

people: you can still be a good person and act like a piece of shit at times.

huff and puff all you want. rationalize, justify all you want. are there valid reasons to hurt other people? perhaps. but the point remains: you end up hurting other people when you cheat. end of story. black/white/shades of grey notwithstanding.

own up to it. admit your faults and try to correct them. it's what adults do.

[Shine]

57. You're right, it doesn't.

I agree with all of your points, datasuspect.

As I posted earlier, I would furthermore argue ALL of us act out of alignment with one's personal Integrity at various times in one's life. It's human nature, afterall.

Like you said so well: own up to it. admit your faults and try to correct them. it's what adults do.

:thumbsup:

[fudge stripe cookays]

90. Bingo.

Justify it all you want, it doesn't make it right. If you are unhappy in your relationship, get out of it, THEN pursue other avenues. Cheating is wrong.

[Midlodemocrat]

100. Hey, Shine!

:hi: :hug:

[Coventina]

2. There are as many "reasons" as there are cheaters.

As Tolstoy says in Anna Karenina: Happy families are generally all alike, but every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

That's a paraphrase, I can't find my copy right now.

[JVS]

5. For gratification

[jobycom]

8. I spent many years trying to understand that one

Finally decided I had wasted those years. You either live with it or walk away, there is no understanding that will matter. It's like trying to understand why people die.

[mike_c]

9. dude! was that your girlfriend? I am so sorry....

:evilgrin:

[Porcupine]

11. The reality is people like to screw around.

People can swing or do the poly thing or duck their heads until they or their partner get a good offer. Personally I'm currently regretting several times when I didn't cheat on the ex (that harpy). She was cheating on me.

Never turn down an offer to get laid without due consideration. The time may come when those offers stop or your health won't support the follow through.

Relationships suck, get used to it.

[BlueIris]

12. A) Basic, human fear of consequences, (...I know) B) society glorifies

infidelity, (while disparaging commitment) and C) far too many put up with unacceptable treatment in their personal relationships. So, the cheaters never really have to deal with what they've done or embrace much form of true remorse about the commitments they've denigrated.

[Liberty Belle]

13. There can be many reasons, some understandable, some not.

A good friend has someone on the side because his wife has been unable to make love for several years, as a result of surgery. He is her caretaker, though she's an alcoholic and a smoker who won't quit even with a relapse of lung cancer.

His "other"is trapped in a loveless marriage with someone who is verbally abusive and manipulative, but they have teenage children, and she fears the kids would be traumatized if she left. So she's taken refuge on the side with someone who is kind and caring, and for now, both take what joy they can in life.

Ironically, each feels that leaving their mates would be a less moral choice than cheating, since other people are dependent on them right now.

So...never judge someone else until you've walked in their mocassins, as they say.

[LeftyMom]

14. because they are scum

There is no justification for mistreating somebody in that way, especially if they love or trust you.

[Floogeldy]

17. Thank you, LeftyMom.

:thumbsup:

[ScreamingMeemie]

18. Again, I respectfully disagree.

My ex? Yes a scum (in my mind anyway). My father? A wonderful, loving and caring human being who gave my mother life on a silver platter for 39 years, mothered and fathered her children, was threatened with suicide when he asked for a divorce after wrestling with it because he was raised to believe that divorce was not an option...even in an environment when one's children are suffering from mental abuse and emotional starvation. Was my father wrong? Yes. Is he scum? I'd have no other as my Dad.

My mom love or trust anyone? I don't bet on it. :(

[buddhamama]

24. i respectfully agree with you, Mrs.G

the world we live in is not black and white, there always shads of grey.

i have taught D. not to lie or steal. but if i were homeless with no food would i steal a loaf of bread to feed my child, you bet your ass i would.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[RetroLounge]

15. A many reasons as there are couples in the world

Some reasons underastandable, some inexcusable, all painful...

:shrug:

Been on both sides of the equation. It sucks...

RL

[Redstone]

19. I'm the wrong guy to ask, because I don't.

Redstone

[xchrom]

21. i'm not into monogamy.

[buddhamama]

26. yes, but in your case you're not cheating

you're honest and upfront on the issue. :hug: :hi: :hug:

[xchrom]

33. buddhamama!!! hi!

:hi: :loveya:

[fudge stripe cookays]

91. That suggests...

not having a SIGNIFICANT other. Just LOTS of others.

[NashVegas]

27. Fear

I don't believe monogamy is natural for humans. If you look at it from a strictly Darwinian standpoint, the object is to diversify and strengthen the gene pool.

Monogamy is a nice ideal, and if you can do it and lead a happy, fulfilled, life, may hat's off to you. In an unhappy home, though, the gene pool is weakened. You get kids who grow up loathing the idea of marriage.

So, rather than be practical about it and have affairs while remaining otherwise committed and faithful to your family, rather than attempt to deal honestly with the (negative) emotions cheating creates, we Americans insist on the ideal and force ourselves and our straying partners into the lie.


To be more specific to the OP situation, ie, non-married SOs, I have to wonder: was there ever a conversation in the first place, where it was agreed both partners would be exclusive? If so, I'd chalk it up to a backbone problem, wherein the cheater isn't up to facing whatever scene may ensue from announcing they want to see others.

[XemaSab]

41. From a Darwinian standpoint

the object is to raise kids who are able to successfully reproduce.

Historically, stable two parent families have been much better at accomplishing that end. :shrug:

[NashVegas]

48. Stable Is the Key Word

How one deals with infidelity is the factor there.

[alarimer]

30. Because they're assholes

I swear I seem to be an asshole magnet! LOL

But lying about it is worse than the "crime" itself actually. I couldn't be with someone who lied to me (actually I was once and that was enough). Is honesty too much to ask anymore? Cheating is a deal-breaker too because I could never trust them again. And I don't see the point in staying with someone I can't trust.

[Guava Jelly]

34. Fear, curiosity,loneliness, revenge, love,hate,selfishness, horniness

A million different reasons.

[XemaSab]

43. I have struggled with understanding this

The only time I've "cheated" is when I dated two people at once. Neither one of them was Mr. Right, but together they sort of evened out the things that were uncool about the other. But going back to Shine's contentious first post, if I had had integrity I would not have been dating one of them in the first place, so I myself would have had some integrity. :shrug:

[Haole Girl]

46. Because people are people.

I wasn't going to comment on this thread because it's just too easy to have a snap judgment. In fact, my first response, was: "Because they are assholes". But, then I remembered...certain instances...certain people I've known and loved, who did have a lot of integrity, still "fell victim" to the cheating game. Why? Is it as simple as saying that people are people? There has been cheating since Adam and Eve. And, even for people who don't have religious beliefs, it's fair to say there has been cheating since mankind first attempted to be monogamous. What has changed, over the years, among other things, is the rapid spread of more disease(s). It really does bother me when people cheat on their spouse or SO and never tell them. That is the way so many diseases are spread.

Also, as far as the original OP statement about, It's a good arrangement for both of us. Surely beats picking up creepy people at clubs or bars.....well, I'm not so sure. Having an "arrangement" just for the physical act of it bothers me. I mean, is it really that simple? There are just too many consequences...emotional, sometimes physical ones. Wouldn't it be better...to just...(well, use your imagination, so-to-speak).

This is an issue that seems very simple on the face of it, but as a person thinks about it...and realizes they know people who've gotten burned by what I call "the game," it's really not simple at all.

One thing I know for relative certaintly-- when someone cheats, someone is bound to get hurt.

[Taverner]

49. It's not such a black-and-white issue

Show me 20 couples who had fidelity issues, and every story, rationale is different.

[datasuspect]

50. sociopaths can rationalize anything

an excuse is just that, an excuse.

but there are so many compartments and departments in life. it is complicated.

still, having some kind of moral compass (and i am a profligate immoral bastard) or at least an ATTEMPT toward that is always a good thing.

[Taverner]

51. Ahhh but I wouldn't equate cheating with sociopaths

Some sociopaths may cheat, but not all cheaters are sociopaths.

Like I said, there are many reasons for cheating, and to pass a blanket statement over all who do is like passing the same for stealing (you tell me, if a starving man steals a loaf of bread, is it the same as the Hilton heiress who shoplifts?)

It is our insistance to look at the world in strictly binary terms that leads us into wars with no end, ban gay marriage and many other intolerable acts.

Morals are only as good as the Ethics that surround them.

[datasuspect]

52. a person can engage in sociopathic behavior

and still not be a sociopath.

i don't deal in blanket statements much, but i am all for taking responsibility for behavior and actions.

a starving man who steals: his action hurts the merchant. is it wrong? from the merchant's perspective, yes. from a humanitarian perspective, not necessarily.

i personally cannot think of a reason to cheat on someone that holds any water.

it's better to get out of a relationship before it gets to that point.

is a cheater a piece of shit? not necessarily. we're not talking about the sum total of the person. they might be an otherwise good person. but they still have engaged in shitty behavior if they cheated.

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. and if the leavee were to threaten suicide after being left??

Still sociopathic? I don't think so. I think there are a myriad of reasons that cannot be filed under one excuse. :(

[buddhamama]

61. in the case of your Mom,Mrs.G

she participated in her own manipulative (sociopathic) behavior. she must own up it and assume responsibility for it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

64. Thank you buddhamama!

:loveya:

In this case, it was my mother lacking in integrity and being sociopathic... she is to this day, unfortunately. I understand my father's actions even if some would label him less of a man for them. :hug:

[datasuspect]

70. a person who uses suicide as a bargaining chip

is very sick and needs help.

[fudge stripe cookays]

92. Yup. As my shrink says...

You cannot control what anyone else does. You can only control what YOU do. Anyone who uses suicide as a tool is manipulative, and you are not responsible for their behavior. THEY are.

Cheating is still wrong.

[Taverner]

54. Thing is I don't define things in terms of "good" and "evil" so readily

You have to see things from every party's perspective - and after that point it boils down to inflicting pain, causing pleasure, releiving another and awareness of such things.

There are a lot of people who cheat, who aren't aware of the pain they are causing until things come to a head. Usually at that point, they are sorry - not just because they are caught but because it becomes apparent that they have hurt the other.

It's like the old saying "Don't judge a person until you've walked a mile in their shoes."

And what about those who are polyamorous? Is that cheating?

[buddhamama]

63. i too, am for personal responsibility

in the analogy i used above i owned to the fact that although i am against stealing i am willing to admit there exists situations that might arise in my life where i might resort to stealing.

i despise moral absolutists, and intent counts. some of our actions hurt no one but ourselves and one other, other actions we engage in hurt many. which is morally superior?

[datasuspect]

68. the problem with morality is that there are multivariate perspectives

depending on how you view things.

i've never been one to admonish others for their behaviors, in fact, i've tried to understand why a person does what they do.

i judge my actions thusly: act in accordance with the way i wish to be treated. engage in actions that tend toward helping others, not hurting them.

of course, life and people are imperfect and we all fail. that's where seeing where we as individual persons are to blame counts the most. everyone should judge their own actions and try to learn from mistakes. but like i said, humans are fallible creatures, all a person can do is try harder or at least not repeat the same mistakes over and over.

[hippywife]

74. There it is!

i judge my actions thusly: act in accordance with the way i wish to be treated. engage in actions that tend toward helping others, not hurting them.

That's it in a nutshell. When someone cheats, regardless of the reasons of justifications, they are being untrue to not only their SO but also themselves.

In the case of someone who is polyamorous, there is no expectation of fidelity, so there is no cheating in seeing someone else. If there is an established relationship where exclusivity is agreed to then it is cheating no matter what the "reason."

Thanx, datasuspect! :hi:

[buddhamama]

76. we're on the same page

i guess where i draw the line is stating in absolute terms someone lacks integrity based on my moral compass. cos ya know, that's a bit judgmental and i judge my actions based on how i would like to be treated; i wouldn't want to be judged unfairly.

[datasuspect]

84. and that is exactly where dichotomous thinking does the greatest disservice.

a person's actions can be lacking in integrity. that is one compartment of the whole person though.

in many cases, there are probably other redeeming characteristics that offset the bad parts. and the bad behavior itself is a transitory thing, whereas, who a person is as a person is often more or less fixed.

i can find redeeming qualities in almost anyone, it doesn't mean that i won't call a spade a spade when their particular actions are reprehensible or lacking in integrity.

[buddhamama]

86. sometimes we are reacting to situations poorly

but it doesn't define who we are.

i have been guilty of anger but i am not an angry person nor i am given to being judgmental but i am guilty of that too.

i am guilty of all things human.

i was recently cheated on. and, it is exactly the issue of pattern v. a situation that i struggled with.
was the cheating indicative of the person as a whole or, was it an isolated incident.

[Solon]

71. Problem is, that stealing for food to prevent starvation is reasonable...

so far in this thread, I have yet to see an equally reasonable reason to cheat on someone behind their back. One person mentioned an SO that was abusive to their kids, so they fuck on the side? How does that prevent the kids from getting beaten? Another mentioned that the SO threatened suicide if a divorce happened, either they a bluffing or not, in this case, get the SO some help and go through with the divorce. In the case of SOs that are abusive to YOU, try to find a way to leave, or something else along those lines, find a shelter, file for divorce, and try to move on.

In all those cases, the act of cheating did NOTHING POSITIVE, unlike stealing a loaf of bread, which will fill a stomach and stave of starvation for a little while. Even in cases where the SO cheated on YOU, getting back at them by cheating also isn't reasonable, dropping them like a bad habit is what you should do.

[datasuspect]

72. abusive spouse = justification for cheating?

i had a hard time getting that myself.

[Solon]

73. My best friend growing up had a hard time....

His father abused his mother, she simply became fed up with it, and moved out, taking the kid, and divorced the father, he couldn't even get visitation, this was a long time ago. She finally found happiness with a co-worker, and she moved in with her, and my friend ended up with two moms that loves him very much.

I mean, if you find your "knight in shining armor" while married to an asshole, at least be upfront about it and DO something to get rid of the asshole.

[bluethruandthru]

77. You're right.

Cheating is always a very selfish act. Yes, the cheater may be lonely, abused, taken for granted, emotionally suffering at the hands of their spouse...but sleeping with another person doesn't solve anything. When the sex is finished...the cheater is still lonely, abused, taken for granted, etc. by their spouse...only now the cheater probably feels even worse because they know they've done something wrong.

When it comes right down to it. If you're unhappy with your spouse...for whatever reason...leave. Leave before you cheat....then go ahead, and sleep with whomever you want!

[buddhamama]

79. i agree with you

i am not advocating cheating nor justifying it whatsoever. the one exception however where understanding should be given is in the case of Mrs.G's Dad.

[Solon]

80. I don't really agree with that...

I don't understand why he did what he did, I mean, in the same situation, if she WAS actually suicidal, she's going to a hospital, while at the same time I would be calling a lawyer. If she was just bluffing, then I'm still calling the lawyer. As far as I can tell, the cheating would accomplish nothing other than temporary gratification, and at the same time, if the wife was truly suicidal, increase the chances of her killing herself if she found out.

[buddhamama]

82. it is not for me to argue

because i am not personally involved. he asked for a divorce (RE: tried to do the right thing) and struggled with the personal decision of HARM.

it is easy to judge when one is not in the situation themselves.

[crim son]

95. I think perhaps are assuming that cheating is merely

fucking. A person cheats before any physical contact occurs, when they transfer feelings from their SO to another person. Yet so many people here are talking about this in terms of sexual intercourse, like (so sweetly put) "a dog licking its balls." I'm not even slightly interested in defending my choices, but it's hard to read this thread and all it's assumptions and generalizations, and not be astonished.

And imagine this: the cheating stopped the abuse. The man I loved taught me that what I was dealing with, and what my children were dealing with, was unacceptable. I did not understand that before and before I am judged for this as well, just give it up, okay? Once I did understand I saw that it never happened again. The husband is in counseling for his anger issues. We are amicable. Sigh. This is definitely not the place to unburden oneself and I realize that. But christ, have you people no imagination whatsoever? Specifically, can you not imagine that you don't know the smallest piece of the whole story of anybody's life?

Perhaps I do live in a completely different world, morally. I begin to think so, because what is being characterized here as evil, a dirty and shameful act, a rationalization, was as inevitable for me as breathing. Leaving my husband for a love that seemed too good to be real - not inevitable. And now, I am going to leave this topic and not look back.

[idgiehkt]

96. thanks crim son

I think the universe has strange ways of teaching, and I've learned from personal experience that sometimes the worst thing that happens to me can also end up being the best thing, or bring about some needed changes, growth, whatever, that wouldn't have happened otherwise. What scares me about the 'moral absolutism' is that for me there is no surer way to f*ck myself than to a) spout off judgements about other people or b) talk about what I will 'never' do. Those are like voodoo for me, it always brings about that exact circumstance in my life.

I like this statement, too: "A person cheats before any physical contact occurs, when they transfer feelings from their SO to another person.". I think there's a lot of truth in that, and I would expand that definition to include cyberspace. For me it just doesn't matter if someone I'm dating actually slept with someone or just told someone repeatedly online that they really, really want to. If I have knowledge of it, and we agree that internet flirting is okay, that's one thing. But if there is deception involved, and the little internet cyber-screwing that isn't supposed to count for some reason is going on and I find out about it, I'm going to feel cheated on and deceived, regardless of whether there is any physical contact. It always blows my mind how people can describe in grapic detail in e-mails or whatever to another person just what they are going to do them and then turn around and say they have never 'cheated' on their S.O. (Mostly likely, I will now become someone who cheats on their S.O. on the internet, thanks to that little sermon, lol).

[idgiehkt]

98. the thing is

that the people making these posts are REAL people, and many of them are in REAL pain, and being close to one of the people you mentioned, it hurts me to read their situation talked about as carelessly and dismissively as you have just done. I am actually so speechless now that all I can think of to say in regards to your post is something like 'what would Jesus do'? Or Buddha, or Gandhi? Aren't we supposed to be the more compassionate side of the fence...

I guess this thread is going in the back of the closet with all the rest of the useless and annoying things.

[NewWaveChick1981]

66. Well put, Taverner.

:) You hit the nail on the head. Cheating is not a cut-and-dried issue. The dynamics involved in a relationship don't always fit into a neat little mold.

[datasuspect]

69. the point where it IS cut and dried is when the individual person

decides to purposely hurt another. and like i said, there are manifold excuses and justifications for any behavior. i'm not saying it is bad, good, or indifferent. it is up to the person to be the arbiter of their moral conduct.

just don't expect the world to buy a flimsy justificatory scheme.

[catmandu57]

58. After being on the receiving end

without any extenuating circumstances, I didn't abuse anyone, and from all appearances things couldn't have been better, yet, it happened. The conclusion I've came to in my case, was she had the opportunity to drive a cadilac and I was just an old beat up ford.
The thing was though it wasn't just one time, it kept happening until the logical conclusion, she went her way I went mine.
It wasn't without pain, It wasn't clean, in fact I pretty much threw a monkey wrench into my life afterwards and dug a hole that I've never really climbed out of, but, that's a different story (see me after the meeting).
As to why people cheat I don't know, if I did I'd be on the talk show circuit hawking a book and making scads of money.

[SKKY]

75. For the same reason a dog licks his balls...

...because he can.

[BlueJazz]

81. I cheated on mine...I mean...sweet Jesus...wouldn't you?

[Scout]

89. because they are of low character? n/t

[nini]

94. they're either weak or selfish

If you want to play don't be in a relationship where the other person thinks you are both monogamous.

If your relationship is bad - get out. No excuses, get out.

My dad cheated on my mom and I make no excuses for what he did. It didn't keep me from loving him after all the hell played out, but I respect my mom for not taking his shit too.


If you want to play do not pull a partner along that can be hurt by it - it's just common decency.

[raccoon]

101. Many reasons. Rebellion (against the spouse).

I know of a man who is a chronic cheater, and in his case it was rebellion. He "had to" get married at 19.

I know of a woman who had an affair as rebellion against her spouse.

[av8rdave]

102. I was on the receiving end in a previousl life

I was cheated on. Naturally, from my completely objective, unbiased view of the circumstances, it was wrong and inexcusable. It hurt a lot. However, I have resolved to not judge others without knowing their situation.

[PVnRT]

103. Why is serial monogamy the norm?

Other than marriage, whjen vows and oaths are exchanged, there is nothing binding upon either person that says that they absolutely CAN NOT see other people. Until both commit to monogamy of their own free will, it's open season.

The day society stops thinking of sex as this dirty little thing that you shouldn't really talk abou is the day that 90% of our relationship issues vaporize.

[nini]

104. you can commit to monogamy with the marriage vows

Doesn't matter if the actual ceremony occurs.

True, there are relationships that are not monogamous - those aren't what constitutes 'cheating' as the relationship between the two people is agreed to not be monogamous.

It's when the understanding is the relationship is one on one only and one partner strays that is the issue.