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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 09:22 AM
Original message
For those of you who have been in abusive relationships...
Edited on Fri Sep-29-06 09:23 AM by lionesspriyanka
...why did you stay...and how long did you stay...what made you leave eventually...

i mean physically or emotionally abusive relationships you have had as adults

i am by no mean judging...

i just wanted to know what people say who are not "case studies" in psychology text books..

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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh Lioness
It took me forever to figure out it was abusive. I stayed almost 20 years. The ex was a cop and a drinker (alcoholic). He managed to "help" me believe that I was worthless and deserved whatever he decided to give to me. Of course I already had the background from family of origin. Al-anon saved my butt. It helped me to see what I was doing to myself. After a while I just woke up and decided I wouldn't stay with someone who could be that self centered. (girlfriends, hiding money in a bank account with his name only, cashing in my life insurance policy, going out after I'd be asleep, blaming it all on me etc.)

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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. OhioBlues...
:hug::hug::hug:
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BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. I stayed
because I thought I was in love with him and somehow could make him change. :shrug: I was also very young (early 20's) and naive. He was older and very manipulative. I was with him 2 1/2 years or so. I left because I finally realized that I deserved better. It was still very hard though. Honestly, the only way I could walk away was when I had another guy in the sidelines. Not the greatest idea, but it worked for me at the time.

All these years later I still wonder about him. He was not physically abusive but definately fucked me up emotionally.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. You are me, this was mine, except mine was physically abusive too
I told a parent also. Figured there would be no going back after that, which there wasn't.
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. Ok....
Why? Because I had no self-esteem and thought I could fix him, or something retarded like that

How long? 6 years

Thankfully, he left me for my best friend...and then I got into another relationship before he tried to come back, which he did, albeit quite unsuccessfully



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VeggieTart Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Wow, my story is similar
I had no self-esteem either. My former husband was emotionally abusive and liked to scream at the top of his lungs when he was upset (which was often). I don't know what I was thinking. He arranged for a friend of mine to fly out for my birthday, then they spent the weekend alienating me and criticizing me when I got upset that they were all but pushing me out. She tore me to pieces, figuratively, and he stood by and let it happen. Yes, folks, he dumped me on my birthday.

She dumped him six weeks later. She apparently wanted an excuse to dump her boyfriend and used my husband to do so. Luckily, he didn't want me back, he just wanted my sympathy, but that well had long run dry. He wrote some whiny letter about how miserable he was, and never once apologized for anything he said or did.

I did get one useful thing from him: he liked to use the phrase "enter the Jabberwocky." I took it to mean a surreal, fucked up situtation that is beyond belief. Karl Rove is the tour guide in the Jabberwocky, for instance.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Is it always self-esteem or hoping for some miracle?
Me a mix of both, certainly.
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Roon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. I have been in two abusive relationships, back to back
The first one lasted 13 years,I just kicked him out and he was out by early morning. He moved in with his boyfriend's parents. Yeah, I let him have a boyfriend, what can I say?

The second one was bipolar and got really mean when he was manic. He tried strangling me a couple of times and he just basically left on his own. He was so shocked that he was brought down to the level of abusing me, he couldn't stand it.

I have that affect on people, they end up wanting to kill me. :-)
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. 3 1/2 years
Why?
The relationship became abusive after only 6 months.
Unfortunately, we were already living together, which made it more difficult. Specifically because I had relocated
with my 13 year old son to be with him.
So, I made my plans to leave--I end up getting hit by a car
and getting stuck in a coma recovery hospital for months. It was actually a relief to be there--that's how horrible he was.

When I came home from the hospital, I tried to make him leave, as I
was in terrible physical shape from the accident
and I had no money
and no means to go anywhere.

How I finally got away was to trick HIM into leaving (3 1/2 years into it)---I lied about
how I was going to lose all my home health care, physical therapy visits, dr. visits, etc.
if I shared an address with him (complicated).
That scared him, because in his very warped mind,
he probably figured that if I didn't have my medical care, my lawsuit would be compromised.
I know for sure he was planning to bankrupt my settlement.

He moved to an area very close by, and continued to pop up at my place.
I was afraid of him, and the police did nothing to help me.

When I was able to leave (settlement money, son graduating from HS, etc)
I changed my cell phone number immediately, and I did not get a landline
phone. He had no idea I moved 50 miles away.

I have learned SO MANY LESSONS from this!
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. Read this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5675491#5675697

This explains it for me -- and probably for Vash and others, too.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
8. I was used and abused by a woman who needed a boyfriend...
... to show off to her family. Her mom used to call me retarded but I always took that as a nervous joke, to protect my ego maybe, but later I realized that's really what her mom thought of me. But her mom did not reject me because in her mind it was far better that her daughter had a boyfriend, even if he was retarded, than that her daughter was a lesbian.

Mind you, it was pretty good for me to have a girlfriend, which didn't otherwise seem possible, and better yet because my girlfriend had money and a car that actually worked, so I often had transportation to go to Berkeley or San Diego or Utah or wherever the hell my latest obsession was dragging me. I once followed the HVDC line from the San Fernando Valley all the way up to Washington for no good reason I could ever describe to anyone else.

We were both pretty much celibate, and giving ourselves good Christian bonus points for that, but it was a great big lie. We didn't ever have sex because she wasn't sexually attracted to me. If she happened to be sleeping with a woman she never counted that as sex -- she could always convince herself she was still a good Christian virgin because she'd never been with a man, and I could always convince myself that she and her girlfriends were just sleeping. (Damn right I blame Christianity for this mess...)

Some women get a big dog when they are feeling lonely and insecure, but this lonely and insecure woman got me.

There wasn't any physical abuse, it was all emotional.... unless you count that she was a better runner than I was and always expected me to keep up. It got so I could run fourteen or fifteen miles, no problem. We used to work out in the gym and guys would look at her, and then look at me with some sort of envy that I could handle someone so obviously dangerous even though I wasn't handling anything well at all, I was just following. But I didn't see it that way at the time. I'd get a testosterone buzz... "Heh, heh, boys, I've seen her naked!"

We broke up after she took me up to San Francisco on false pretenses. She claimed we were going to do something fun, but actually she wanted me around for an intervention she was pretty sure would turn violent and scary. And it did too. Bloody Hell. So after her friend was safely tucked away in the hospital, we were driving through Berkeley screaming at one another and I, blindly furious, just opened the car door and stepped out. Unfortunately the car was moving pretty fast and I sort of tumbled and slid down the street quite a ways behind her car.

She stopped briefly to make sure I wasn't dead, and that was the last I saw of her until a few years ago, when our paths crossed briefly, and we both pretended not to recognize one another. She owns some intellectual property I created, but I really can't care about that, it's not all that valuable anymore and I just want to be far, far, away.

:scared:

After that ugly breakup I thought a long time about who I was and who I wanted to be, and I started to have some normal kinds of dating relationships. Then I met my wife, and it's been happily ever after. My old girlfriend is married too -- to a woman.



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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. How the hell could anyone think YOU are retarded
I've always found you to be quite articulate and deep thinking.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. In the real world I don't talk much.
And face-to-face I have no idea what anyone is thinking until they either hug me or punch me in the face.

Silence was a survival skill I learned in high school. On the internet I'm in my element because I can read and write at my own speed.


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wildhorses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. complicated...you think you know somebody...
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. i think that comment could apply to me
with regards to my abusive relationship. no one knew while it was happening (6 1/2 yrs) except for those i chose to tell, and that number was few. going about my everyday life i.e. work, etc, i don't think i exhibited behaviors, signs, whatever that i wasn't a confident person or that my home life sucked as bad as it did.

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wildhorses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. ..........
:hug:

i know what you mean...
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I was incredibly secretive.
You pretend so hard that everything is okay.
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. i'm starting to think we're twins...
:wow: see above...

:hug:
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. indeed, sister girl
Edited on Fri Sep-29-06 03:03 PM by buddhamama
parallel lives. :hug:
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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. I've had a couple
both were my responsibility...in the first one I didn't know the person well enough and moved to another state with them right off the jump. Luckily for me she got a better offer and left after about 9 months of hell. She's just an extremely screwed up person.

In the second the person wasn't clean and sober which I need. I met her right after above relationship (actually during) and I think I just wanted a distraction. I knew that I was making the wrong decision for myself but I'd kind of been beaten down so far at that point (again, my responsibility, I allowed it to happen...I wasn't trapped) I didn't care. I think I felt I deserved a reward for what I'd been through with the previous one, which was just crap. It lasted three and a half years, off and on, and was extremely painful. I consider myself to be a pretty deep person but I think I was just in love with her physicality so much I couldn't bear the thought of losing her, which is embarassing to admit. It's like I was addicted to her. It was very passionate but all the parts outside of the bedroom were pretty much excruciating. Even after a decade in recovery I still denied signs of her using. Eventually she chose cocaine over me, or made it clear I wasn't going to interfere with her using, so I just faded out of the picture, finally.

I've never been 'abused' by a man. Almost all the guys I have dated have been really good guys. There was a man I dated once that was abusive with another girlfriend, but not to me.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. Fear and shame... 8 years... My dog...
Why did you stay? Fear and shame. He moved into my apartment when I told him to get out he wouldn't leave. Before you ask, my apartment was an in-law on my parent's house. Not like I could leave without anyone noticing.... The last three years we had our own place. At that point he was spending money faster than I could earn it so I had to hide some away to be able to leave. But basically, money wasn't the reason I stayed, fear was. It was safer to stay and take the routine shit than to risk him finding me if I left.

How long did you stay? 8 years.

What made you leave eventually? I realized he wasn't just hurting me, he was hurting my dog. That day I left with the clothes on my back and my dog. I showed up on my parent's doorstep two states away and they took me in without making me feel ashamed. (Had I only known...) He harrasseed me at their house and at work for months but my dad got him to leave me alone at home and the company got him to leave me alone at work.

I still have nightmares that I can't get away from him.
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. I stayed because I was convinced that there was
no place to go that would be safe. The police wouldn't help, my abuser threatened my family...and actually broke into my grandparents' house trying to find my whereabouts one time when I did get away, starting a fire before he left.

I got out when the fear of what I knew became greater than the fear of the unknown.

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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
22. I stayed in one for close to 20 years...
Edited on Fri Sep-29-06 03:28 PM by Blue_In_AK
I'm not sure why, but I really loved the guy, and I understood where his anger was coming from, so I gave him a b-i-g pass. To this day, I believe he loved me also -- I'm guessing he probably still does -- but at least speaking for myself, I'm so much better off now. I really didn't need all the ongoing drama.

Unlike some of you up thread, I did not have self-esteem issues -- I always knew it was his problem and not mine -- and actually he did, too, and was the first to admit it. He just couldn't ever get his head on straight.

The sex was great though.

As for why I left, I had a reunion with my highschool sweetheart who I hadn't seen for over 30 years. He showed me what it felt like to be really loved and appreciated. After that I couldn't stay with the ex any longer, especially when he dove head first off the wagon he'd been on for five years, drinking and using more heavily than ever. It's a long story, but after two long years of trying to get out of the relationship, I finally succeeded. Highschool BF and I are now happily married since June 2003, and I would NEVER go back to the old way.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
23. Because I was afraid to leave
Edited on Fri Sep-29-06 05:31 PM by skygazer
People always seem to think that an abusive relationship is abusive from the start. It's usually not. Abusers tend to be extremely charming people (when they want to be) and they want to be when they are trying to win you. Mine brought me flowers for no reason, made friends with my kids from my first marriage, wined me, dined me, made promises that he'd take care of me. He seemed like the perfect man.

It wasn't until we were two years into the relationship that he first shoved me. Then you automatically think it's your fault, that it's out of character for him and so you must have done something to set it off. It's very psychological.

In addition, abusers tend to find people who are somewhat vulnerable for one reason or another. I had been divorced and felt guilty about that. Guilty about taking my daughters from their dad, guilty about giving up. Though I've always been very strong and independent, those things made me vulnerable in subtle ways and he picked up on it and took advantage of it. When he started getting violent, we'd had a son together. In my confusion, it seemed worse to take another child away from his father than to allow the abuse. Besides, you always believe they'll stop because to not believe that is to give up on something that you've invested so much in. You have to really hit a wall to realize that it's never going to get better and will no doubt get worse. Some women die before they reach that point.

By the time I reached it, I was afraid to go. He told me he'd kill me if I left and I believed it. I never called the cops on him - I knew what would happen. They'd maybe keep him for a night but probably not and then I'd pay for it ten times over. Restraining order? Shit, I knew a woman who left a man, got a restraining order when he kept bugging her and was eventually stabbed to death by him in a busy parking lot in broad daylight. What the hell good is a restraining order?

If you truly want to understand abusive relationships, read a book called "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. Man, did that book ever hit home for me.

By the way, I finally managed to leave when he was arrested for a drug charge and sentenced to 3-5 years. When I heard he was getting out, I slept with a loaded shotgun and he is one of the biggest reasons I moved 3000 miles away from home.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thank you for taking the time to write this
You said it so much better than I but every word you write is true.

"It wasn't until we were two years into the relationship that he first shoved me. Then you automatically think it's your fault, that it's out of character for him and so you must have done something to set it off. It's very psychological." really hit home with me.

Sorry you went through that. And I hope you are now safe and at peace. :hug:
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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. ...abusers tend to find people who are somewhat vulnerable...
Absolutely. They'll find what you think makes you less-than, and pull on it until you unravel.
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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #23
33. skygazer
Another thing we share in common. I haven't fully broken away from the second husband but I am close. He swept me off my feet, loved my daughter from my first abusive marriage, was my knight in shining armour. We had two children together before he revealed himself for the twisted man he is who then used my vulnerabilities to control me.

He used my mother's death to hurt me. I can't think of anything more intenionally cruel.

I am now only civil for the children, if at all.

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distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. I stayed 8 months
I wanted to leave after 4 months, but didn't have the money. The second I thought I had enough to rent a crappy place for me and my cats, I left. I didn't even have any furniture, and the place was horrible and scary. But it wasn't as bad as coming home to a man who did his level best to destroy me mentally and physically every day and who was hurting my cat.

I'm still fucked up about it 6 years later. That guy did a real number on my self-esteem. And I still cringe and say sorry when I spill something or make a mistake, even though my husband has never once been anything but forgiving, kind, and loving to me. I also used to be a relatively fearless, tough girl before I was in that relationship - now I'm afraid of a lot of things because I realized during that relationship and afterwards that the world can really harm you and nobody will give a shit what happens to you. I think I'd be a lot better off without that knowledge.

It's pretty sad. If I met that asshole again today I'd be hard-pressed not to haul off and punch him hard in the mouth. Even if I went to jail, if I made him bleed it might be worth it.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it was a real turning point in my life, and not for the better.
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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. Six years, and it was an argument over a taxicab.
When we were courting, he was a gentleman. Handsome, adored by his friends, with hobbies and interests. He was charismatic, well-spoken, and driven. He said that the things he liked about me were my intelligence, ambition, strength, creativity... my combat boots... When we first got together, I had short hair and often wore a tie, a dress shirt, and pinstriped pants to work. We were sharing a house with friends.

Then, we moved in together. We got a television, and then a computer. He got a hobby table to paint miniatures, and to sit the computer on. When I got a computer, it sat on the floor for a long time, and I never had a place to do any of my art. I didn't really see it at the time.

We got married. He became dissatisfied with our friends and uninterested in going to do anything. His social life shrank to a biweekly roleplaying game session that rotated houses, and a weekly Warhammer game in our apartment. I would go out on the night when he had his Warhammer friends over, mostly because they were big guys who filled up the whole living room, and go to an open mic night at a local coffeehouse. That's when I first started to see a problem - if I wasn't home by the time he was done with his game, it was a big deal every time. He'd yell about 'I didn't know where you were' when I was going to the same place every week. He'd yell about it not being a real marriage if I got home after he had gone to bed. I got a pager so that he could call if he was wondering where I was on my regular Tuesday night out, but he never called it. Not once. I was supposed to call him and check in.

He was unhappy with my housekeeping. I am not a pig, but I don't clean as often as he liked. If something would go undone that he wanted done, he'd rant about it - and rant about how I didn't do it because it was a typical female thing to do. I tried to explain that I grew up in a house with a mother who had OCD and cleaned compulsively, and that sometimes my sister and I would spend hours cleaning the same room. We'd never know when we were done. She'd come in and inspect, and if something was wrong, she'd say 'Keep cleaning' but would refuse to say what it was that was wrong. Since she was a compulsive, what was wrong would often be something a normal person wouldn't see, like dust on a baseboard behind a bed, or a piece of rice stuck to the underside of a kitchen counter. Because of that, I suggested that it would be better for me to have a list of what needed done when and by whom. He refused. I was supposed to just know what he wanted done and how. My explanation got thrown back at me as an excuse, and added to the "you just don't want to do that because it's what women do" ammunition pile.

He'd watch over my shoulder when I cooked, too, criticizing when I did things differently from how he would have done them. Once, he was watching me make ice in an ice cube tray, and I got mad about that. Like I can't make ice?

He got in a car wreck. I found a safe used car, and brought him in to the auction house to see the car. I had my checkbook out, ready to pay for the car. Once he came in, the dealer wouldn't talk to me or look at me. I was pissed about that. Also, I had to insist on having my name on the title. I was paying for it, after all, out of my own money. We kept our money separate still at that point. That came back to me for years about how I insisted on having my name on his car because I had some kind of feminist chip on my shoulder.

I thought there really was something horribly wrong with me. I thought I was cheating this man out of a wife. He'd ignore me for days, plugged into EverQuest or the TV. Occasionally, we'd go to movies, or to one of a very limited set of restaurants. He'd talk to me about EQ, which I didn't play. He'd get angry if it was time to sit on the couch in front of the TV and I didn't get up from what I was doing to sit next to him. More than once, he yelled about talking during a TV show. Once, much later, he threw a fit because my friends and I were laughing out loud at a comedy.

It just kept getting worse. It was like a slow drip that never seems like much at one time, but over time, washes all the dirt out from under a pavement.

He started rewriting reality. I'd ask him to go to a nightclub, and he'd say "I'm not the sort of person who goes to nightclubs" or "The only reason to go to a nightclub is to pick up girls, and I already have one." We used to go to nightclubs together, so wtf? I got sick of the constant nitpicking over my appearance, and grew my hair. I tried to be femme to make things peaceful. I gave it hell.

We moved into a rented house with two friends for a year to save some money to buy a condo. He got laid off, and was out of work for several months. I think it was about six months. During that time, he complained about having roommates, about shoes in the living room, about "mess" and "noise". I was so far pushed down that it never occurred to me that while he was complaining about the roommates, it was the roommates who were paying rent and grocery and utility expenses, and that without them we'd both be much worse off. The same roommates who were leaving shoes in "his" living room were helping to make it possible for him to have any living room at all. The other things I took for granted at the time was his control over the money. We had a joint account by that time, but even during times when he wasn't putting anything in the joint account, he had full veto power over any spending. Why, of course that makes sense, doesn't it?

During that time, I got sick, but had to keep working as much as I could. My ankle blew out on me and I often limped or had trouble walking up the few stairs in our townhouse. He would roll his eyes at me when I would limp, and was utterly disgusted by that. Hestarted criticizing me for everything. When I'd break from the femme persona I tried to put on, dressing up and going out to karaoke with the roommates (he would never go), he was disgusted by that, too. The low point was when he criticized how I held a cigarette. A cigarette! "You hold a cigarette like a guy." I could neither walk nor sit nor even have a smoke without feeling self-conscious. Oh, and my being sick was in my head, and my ankle pain, too. Some of our mutual friends stopped coming over because they were so uncomfortable with how he was acting toward me. When I told him that other people could see how awful he was being toward me, he told me "they're your friends, they'll say anything you want them to."

He had this habit of taking off his wedding ring during arguments. After the third or fourth time, I told him that if he did that again, it was over between us. After we'd moved back into the city, into a *gorgeous*, huge, brand new, rented apartment with a view (that he could never have gotten on his own, we got it based on my income and my credit), he got even worse. Everything had to be his way. All the time. If we were out to see a movie, he'd outpace me on the sidewalk and not notice. He'd just walk off and expect to be followed.

Finally, one night, we were out with friends. I think we'd been to a movie, one of the few social activities left to us, as long as he chose the movie. He walked off down the street, and nobody followed him. He was angry about that. He'd been looking for a taxi, but nobody other than him had seen any cabs in that direction. We'd seen cabs in a different direction. He walked off again, and I headed for where I'd seen taxis. Seeing him act in his imperious I-am-the-natural-ruler-of-all-things way with my friends flipped a switch that him acting that way to me didn't. I said to my friends, "if you've ever been my friends, now is the time, follow me now." They did. We ended up walking a long way, getting a snack, riding home in a cab to an irate husband. He started going for his rings, and I walked out. I wanted a coffee. I wanted to think. I wanted a divorce.

We agreed to separate for a year and try to work things out. There were a list of things we were both going to do. He halfassed one of them and really didn't do what he was supposed to do. Not much of a surprise. We kept seeing each other twice a week for that year, and I was still falling for the same crap. I'd come over to his apartment and cook dinner, we'd watch TV, and I'd feel grateful that he gave me the pleasure of his company.

When the year was over, I started my gender transition. There was no reason not to do it any more. We still saw each other after that, and sometimes, he was physically affectionate. At other times, he'd be cold. Sometimes, he'd act "supportive" which really just meant tolerating me or not embarrassing himself in front of a friend. Other times, he'd be outright cruel. I never knew which I would get, and I felt hopeful and grateful when I would get a goodnight kiss instead of a wave.

It wasn't until I said "no more biweekly visits" that I really got my head clear, and could fully understand just how abnormal that relationship had been. In the end, he explained to me that my gender issues were the only problem we'd ever had in our marriage, that he'd been depressed because of it from the start but also that he'd been surprised by it, that he started playing EverQuest to get away from it. It made me want to cry and laugh at the same time - you can't be simultaneously surprised by something in year 5 and have known about it since year 0. It was obvious crazy logic, and it wasn't going to work this time.

I think it will take a long time to heal the damage done by this man. I have self-doubt that I didn't have before. I find myself double, triple, quadruple thinking words and actions as if to avoid arguments or insults from him, and he's living across the country without contact now. The biggest thing I have to get over is thinking that if I am not perfect, normal, fascinating, healthy, attractive, well-dressed and highly successful, I don't have the right to feel bad about not being treated well.

That was a much longer post than I'd intended to make, but it feels good to tell the entire story to a public forum. Yep, there it is. That's Sepp's story.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. Uncle Sepp, I am so sorry you went through all that.
I wish you much success in your healing. :hug:
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
28. I've been in one for seventeen years
and am currently on the way out. The physical abuse ended early in the marriage (for me... the kids continued to get it until last year) but I haven't been allowed to have friends, or go out, or do much of anything until I forced the issue. I am currently separated in all respects except we're stuck together in a house that won't sell. I am terrified of being alone, but won't settle for this any more. And, anybody who reads this... send up a wave of good vibes or what have you that my house sells. I need so badly to get out of here but haven't a dime w/out the house proceeds.
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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I'm sending up a wave crim son.
Lots of good vibes. I've been in 16 years and working my way out too. I understand how you feel about being alone. PM me any time.:hug:
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miss_american_pie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. ...
:hug:
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
30. This is a weird one for me.
He was abusive...sorta...but it was really due to the fact that he was in the closet(again, sorta--bisexual) and because he was SO VERY VERY intelligent...he did not have any patience. I don't know where some of the physical came from, because he was by no means a dumbass. He was also my protector, because I was so extremely naieve and trusting.
We loved each other very much. He DID love me. I have no question of this. We did the whole break up and get back together thing several times. Toward the end, we had a "regular" fight, and I told him to go to anger management or it was really over--and I meant it.
He went. He was in classes for 2 months.....
then he died.


Looking back, I can see that he had some serious issues...but I know that beyond all of that, he loved me very much. He just had a bad way of growing up and dealing with his problems. It was at first a bad decision to stay,but now I do not regret one minuite..because I really got to show him what love was. He did see through to the real me, which is why he knew he was no good for me and tried to leave several times. There at the end, I think he thought maybe we could make it work.
Guess I'll never know..but it was a very educational 8 1/2 years.

I honor his intelligence and his enthusiasm for life...and I know that HE knows now what he did wrong. I am very much at peace with him and grateful to him for releasing me.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
31. not me, not ever
the first time a guy tried anything like that on me I would find the nearest baseball bat
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. I have to respond to your post
Skittles, I have nothing but respect for you and I know you don't mean it like this, but remarks like that have a tendency to feel like negative judgment to any strong woman who has found herself in an abusive relationship. It's just not that straightforward. Hell, I used to say the same thing, and I had a feeling almost of disdain for anyone who would stay with an abusive man.

There's not many women stronger or more independent than I am. I moved out of my family home at 17 and I've been taking care of myself ever since. I've never leaned on anyone or depended on anyone and I've worked hard, physical jobs alongside men and kept right up with them, in construction, mechanics, racing, you name it. No one ever made me feel weak.

Then I found myself in that situation.

It's just not that cut and dried. It's a deeply psychological, insidious situation that doesn't happen overnight. Abusers don't tend to abuse on the first date - often it's years into the relationship before something occurs. By then, a lot of subtle psychological factors have built up, along with a person's natural disbelief that something like that, coming from someone who supposedly loves them, is the norm. It's seen as an aberration. Sure, the first time it happened, I was furious and indignant. And we had a blow-up and I threatened to leave and he cried and apologised and told me it would never, ever happen again and I believed it because we'd been together for 2 years and had a son and nothing had given me any indication that anything like that could happen. It was easy to believe that it was an aberration, that it was stress or illness or even my fault. But to believe he was one of those awful abusive husbands was beyond believing.

Maybe it wouldn't happen to you. But understand that NO ONE thinks it will ever happen to them. And that EVERYONE believes they'd just walk out and get away the first time. That's just not what tends to happen in real life though. Because there's more to it than some jerk punching you. A lot more.

Peace.



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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I worked on a "Psychic hotline" years ago in L.A.
I heard MORE than I ever wanted to. Got to the point where I could ID abuse after 2 sentences. What fascinated me was that WOMEN who reported physical abuse and reacted IN THE FIRST OR SECOND INSTANCE more violently than their partners ever expected were the LEAST LIKELY to be physically attacked again. Those who reacted with equal violence LATER would find themselves in the hospital. I thought at the time that my observations deserved some serious academic study but between divorce, kids and career I was unable to hook it up.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Women that react with violence will likely be arrested.
Especially in a mandatory arrest state such as Washington, where the one with the bigger bruises is usually the one arrested.

So you're punched in the stomach and it takes two days for a bruise to surface? Tough luck, if you scratched the face up.

Abusers learn to play the system. It's one of the ways that they isolate victims.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-01-06 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. oh no no no, stargazer
I in no way meant to disrespect victims of such abuse - it's just that I do believe abusers prey on those they perceive to be the more vulnerable folk - I grew up with five brothers in a military family and was enlisted myself - I fought back at a very early age. Would I tend to think this is true of most women? Absolutely not.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
32. just shoot my ass would you please...
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peacefreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
36. Whew, this is like a walk down Memory Lane.
Like Ohio Blues I was married for over 20 years. I stayed so long because I thought as long as I was his target, my daughter was safe. When I saw her start apologizing for things that weren't her fault & telling me some of the things he was saying about her, I started to take action.
Ever see a power & control wheel? It is a map of behaviors in an abusive relationship. He did everything except beat me. He told a friend it's cheaper if you don't beat her. Moved me to a distant state.
When I lost my job, he refused to give me access to our joint accounts. Some things were "jokes". When I was pregnant, we were playing hangman. When it was his turn he drew the scaffold in a crib. Shortly thereafter I had a miscarriage. That was over 15 years ago, & it still hurts.
About a year before I left I joined a support group for battered women. They gave me courage & information to do what I had to do. Opened a savings account. Started to plan my getaway. He always said if I left, don't plan on coming back. He also said no judge in his right mind would give me custody of the kid. I knew it was a one shot deal.
He worked a job that required him to be gone about 12 hours a day. During that time I would pack & get the boxes out of the house. In their place I would leave empty boxes on the shelf. On the surface it all looked the same. During this time, I started divorce proceedings & found an apartment.
The day I left, I sat on the couch cross stitching. As he went out the door I said "see ya". A short time later my friends drove up the street & helped me move. By the time he came back that night, we were gone.
It hasn't been easy. I'm poor, but I have peace of mind. My daughter has grown up to be a person of heart & courage. I am respected in my job & community.
And him? His second marriage went down in flames. The next wife wasn't willing to put up with the shit I did. He moved to another state & is living close to his parents. I must say the air quality is better, now.
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belladonna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
38. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm in an emotionally abusive one
Certain things happening lately that are beginning to really bother me. The double standards, the "do as I say and not as I do attitude and, somehow, anything that happens ends up being my fault or, at least, twisted to seem that way. Oh well.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
41. i've been with two women who have physically abused me
both times it was when i was at a very fucked up place in my life when i've gone off the charts with alcohol and drugs. and by physical abuse, i mean rage sessions where they'd go at it with mag lites and telephones, and i'd be so drunk, i'd tell them to hit me some more, so i could spit blood all over them. really sick shit.

in my right mind, i can usually sense things, but when hobbled, i think judgment gets thrown out the window and you can't accurately gauge things. the unacceptable becomes acceptable and you tolerate more because the senses are dulled.

i think in both of those cases though, i was overwhemingly dependent on them.
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