FUCK you, Saint Keith Olbermann.

[Redstone]

Thursday night, you named Tracy Costin as "The Worst Person in the World."

She's a friend of mine. I've known her for damn near twenty years.

Yes, she did something stupid and illegal, and she's going to pay for it, as she should. But that does not make her "the worst person in the world."

What's wrong, Sparky, was Thursday a slow news day in Washington and in the rest of the world? Nobody was killing anyone anywhere? Nobody in the Administration was lying about anything? No rightwingers said anything vile?

Fuck you, Keith. I hope she sues your balls off. She's already looking at jail time, you asshole; she doesn't need nationally-broadcast humiliation on top of it.

Fuck you. How about some priorities?

Redstone

[Midlodemocrat]

1. What happened? I don't recognize the name?

[Redstone]

12. See below for a link to the newspaper article.

Redstone

[CBGLuthier]

2. Sorry if she is your friend but a fraud is a fraud

She made up poll results.

I think that makes her pretty damn awful.

What exactly is your friends excuse for fraud?

[Redstone]

5. Did you notice the part where I said she should take her punishment

for breaking the law? Or didn't you read the whole post?

What she did was wrong. But I'll say it again: It does NOT mean she deserves nationally-broadcast humiliation on top of it.

Redstone

[CBGLuthier]

6. But what is her excuse

Sorry, but actually I believe in public shaming.

People who do what she did deserve to be exposed.

I guess I am just making another DU enemy and a place on an ignore list but sorry, can not support fraud.

Particularly when it has to do wiuth the polling process.

And yes, I did read your whole post. So what?

[Redstone]

9. I'm not supporting fraud.

Redstone

[citizen snips]

3. who is tracy costin?

[bridgit]

8. there it is, a friend of Redstone's i guess...

:shrug:

[Redstone]

10. See below for a link.

Redstone

[fishnfla]

4. reminds me of an old Neil Young tune

tell me more, tell me more , tell me more.

[Redstone]

7. Here's a link to the story:

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-gfdpoll0909.artsep09,0,7286119.story?coll=hc-headlines-local

Redstone

[speedoo]

16. Two of her clients: Bush and Lieberthug.

http://news.aol.com/elections/story/_a/pollster-pleads-guilty-to-making-up/20060907093409990001

It seems she had the poll results falsified to meet deadlines and survey requirements. So perhaps she was guilty only of greed, not political motive.

Redstone, I can understand that you are unhappy because she's your friend. And I'm sorry to say this, but your objectivity has to be questioned and you are attacking KO on very shaky ground, IMHO.

[Redstone]

54. How many lawyers got disbarred last week for misusing client funds?

Would you characterize any of THEM as qualifying for "the worst person in the world?"

There are all kinds of crooks out there. You'll note that I have NOT defended her actions.

What she did mkaes her a criminal. It does NOT make her the worst person in the world.

THAT is my point.

Redstone

[speedoo]

62. I can think of several scenarios that would lead KO to...

name such a lawyer worst person in the world. One example would be a lawyer who steals from a client who needs the money badly. Another would be a politically-connected lawyer who uses that connection to steal.

You are attacking him (viciously, I might add) for his choice of your friend, and my point is that your attack is on shaky ground because she is your friend. It's just human nature. I might feel like attacking KO, if I were in your place. Although I would hope that I would take some deep breaths, first. Maybe you just really needed to vent.

[fishnfla]

43. and the rest of the song goes

I mean was he just a heavy doper or
was he just a loser
he was a ****** of *****

[CBGLuthier]

11. Here is an article

The owner of DataUSA Inc., a company that conducted political polls for the campaigns of President Bush, Sen. Joe Lieberman and other candidates, pleaded guilty to fraud for making up survey and poll results.

Tracy Costin pleaded guilty Wednesday to one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud. Costin, 46, faces a maximum of five years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000 when she is sentenced Nov. 30.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/07/AR2006090700437.html

It was just a mistake. Yeah right.

[Redstone]

13. Nobody fucking SAID it was a mistake! She pleaded guilty!

So, you believe in public shaming. Let's say one night you have just that one drink too many, and you get pulled over and hauled in for DUI.

You didn't cause any accidents or hurt anyone.

Should you have to put a big sticker that says DRUNK DRIVER on your car for a year?

Redstone

[CBGLuthier]

15. Bad analogy

You want to compare DUI to being a liar, thief, and a fraud.

Again, what was her excuse for this behavior?

Did she get drunk and just make a mistake.


How can you say her actions did not hurt anyone?

You want to come here and blast Keith Olbermann for pointing a liar out?

Ta ta.

[Christa]

18. Well put.

I am totally in agreement.

[LibraLiz1973]

28. I'm down with that. Get the Drunk Driver stickers ready

People get killed every fucking day because someone drives drunk without THINKING.
Do you really imagine that all drunk driving fatalities are the result of chronic drunks?
It is in fact something that happens with horrifying regularity to people who were out and
had a few drinks and thought, "I'll just do it this once".
Maybe if they had to travel with a sticker on their car for a year people would
be alot more cautious about taking lives into their hands.

I actually think you may be onto something with the sticker.

[Ravenseye]

41. Yeah I like the idea

Maybe a sticker on the front of the car in reverse like on ambulances so if you look in your rear view mirror you can read it, with another on the back. That way the rest of us on the road can be more cautious about the person near us who is irresponsible when it comes to hurtling along in a big piece of metal that kills people.

[LeftyMom]

14. Were all the really bad people on vacation?

That's a pretty lame thing to shame a person about on national television.

[Gormy Cuss]

36. Sorry about your friend, Redstone and I agree with LeftyMom

**thus why this looks like a reply to you LM**

I've never been fond of the 'worst person' feature to begin with, but she is a petty thief compared to many other bad actors out there. I do think she deserves the stiff penalties, including jail time, because the indictment shows a pattern of fraud over several years. This was my line of work and what happened in her company was so over the top I'm surprised that she got away with it for so long, especially with the risk of exposure from disgruntled former interviewers. I am sorry that you have had to see a friend go through both the court process and the public shaming.

[Redstone]

55. Thank you. As I said, what she did DOES make her a criminal. But not

the worst person in the world.

Redstone

[LibraLiz1973]

17. I normally agree with Redstone, but..

I dont think you should be bashing Olbermann- she DID do it... and it IS a bad crime.
If a Bushbot got caught doing that it wouldn't occur to anyone to disagree with Olbermann. THe old saying "Whats good for the goose" comes to mind.

The fact is, she plead guilty. And what she did was wrong. Nationally broadcast humiliation should have occured to her before she committed the crime.

What you have done is point out that there is a HUMAN BEING behind the story. I agree, it's tough.. especially for family and friends to see things like that. But I'll bet there are repubs who feel like that when he hits them with the same thing.
Is the answer is to stop the segment entirely?

Adding... after I reading this I have to say.. it IS pretty bad
"According to a federal indictment, Costin told employees to alter poll data, and managers at the company told employees to "talk to cats and dogs" when instructing them to fabricate the surveys."

I can see where Keith was coming from. You would have an entirely different view because she is a friend.

[Mind Snapper]

20. Perhaps

you see a picture of a woman just like the rest of us who's tunnel vision extends very little past her own day to day activities, and keeping hold of what she's got. And if that requires fudging things a little..well, its almost a matter of subsistence isn't it?

Her position is a far cry from that of Bill O'Reilly or *random Establishment shill* and I think it is dishonest and lazy to ignore that just so you can get a couple moralizing licks in

[LibraLiz1973]

29. huh?

and is her crime really that different from O'Reilly? He makes shit up too

[Mind Snapper]

33. And so I'm reminded why I lurked lo these many months

Crime is a really difficult term isn't? On the one hand anything could be defined as a crime tomorrow if the circumstances were right. One day we might have to pay to breathe, and not doing so would be a crime.

In some places feeding the homeless in the park is a crime. Those who would commit this crime are the most reprehensible type of people I know: criminals. They should be locked up where they belong.

Soon it may be a crime to think that 9/11 didn't happen exactly as George Bush tells us it did, because that would lend aid and comfort to the enemy. But even if you were a dirty conspiracy theorist now you would certainly change your mind because you're not a criminal; you loathe criminals and think they should pay for their crimes (execution in this case seems merited)

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

21. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[LibraLiz1973]

23. Ummm.... Welcome to DU?

I've been a member for about 18 months and a reader for 2 years
:shrug:

[Donkeyboy75]

35. Umm....

she wasn't replying to you, unless you have a sockpuppet named Mind Snapper. :shrug:

[Redstone]

25. Well, you can spare yourself my "sanctimony" VERY easily.

That's why the admins aded the "ignore" feature.

Redstone

[Mind Snapper]

26. Perhaps you didn't read my other post in this thread

but I completely agree with you and was hoping the snarky responses you were sure to receive from those who almost worship Keith, would temper your thinking when it came to criticizing and mentally type-casting other posters

From the hostility you're projecting at me though, I have my doubts

[WritingIsMyReligion]

27. I like you.

:D

:hi:

Not that I've got anything at all against Redstone, but you're right in that he did jump the gun at you.

Stand up for yourself on here and you'll go far.

;)

[Redstone]

49. Who, exactly, am I typecasting? An example, please.

Redstone

[Mind Snapper]

52. See your post 13 in this thread as an example

even when you have a legitimate point you can't make it without villainizing the "opposition" and clothing it in thinly veiled invective.

[Redstone]

59. That's not typecasting. It's asking a question. I'll apologize for

snapping at you upthread, but it's not typecasting.

Redstone

[bridgit]

42. welcome to du, Mind Snapper...

:hi: :kick:

[Blue-Jay]

22. If she weren't your friend, you wouldn't give two shits about

"public shaming" of some fraud, and you fucking KNOW it.

Sorry about your friend, but it ain't Olbermann's problem.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[speedoo]

34. Excuse me, but how do you know she faced economic "disaster"?

It seems like that is at least part of your defense for her. So, do you have inside info? If not, aren't you just rationalizing?

[Mind Snapper]

37. I was trying to supply you

with a framework with which to relate, since you seemed unable to build one yourself. I was not and am not defending anything per se. I am merely pointing out that there are levels of victimization and you seem to be ignoring those that don't fit with the sermon you'd like to preach here

[speedoo]

47. Excuse me again, but you are not making any sense.

Perhaps you'd like to make sure your comments are meant for me, because you seem to simply want to make combative statements, instead of answering the question I asked you.

[Mind Snapper]

50. Your question was

"How do I know she faced economic disaster". Since I did not claim that I don't feel I can offer a better answer than already provided.

I do however draw a distinction between an unwitting (if willful) operative of the Establishment thrust into a role largely due to capitalistic oppression and those who are in fact fringe memembers of the Establishment (O'Reilly, etc)

[speedoo]

57. "a better answer" ? May I suggest this...

First, admitting that you at least implied she was facing economic disaster, because that's what you did. (Is your "capitalistic oppression" comment, whatever that is supposed to mean, just another defense of her?)

And second, apologizing for your unwarranted and unnecessary comments to me.

[Mind Snapper]

60. By capitalistic oppression

I mean the way we are taught to think, what we are taught it means to get ahead and be successful in life, how much of a premium we are brain-washed into putting in those, the amount of selves we will compromise to achieve those things.

Those are some reasons one might have for seeking to maintain their socio-economic status at any cost, for seeing the loss of what you've achieved as a type of devastation. Is that a healthy mindset in your opinion? Is it simply a matter of choosing such a blighted disposition or might it be learned?

At some point we both have to concede you may take what I posted however you like, and regardless of how explicitly I attempt to restate myself there will be some loophole allowing you to continue in that vein. I don't accuse you of doing that intentionally but it does seem to be the case.

I do apologize because it appears the poster I mistook you for the poster who originally responded to me, forgive my confusion. I do feel my previous post gave you a satisfactory response, albeit possibly an oblique one (which I hope I've clarified)

EDIT: for a bit more perspective of economic realities and how they interface with employee dishonesty and corruption and unethical behavior see post #65 which address this field specifically.

[speedoo]

67. Thanks. Here is my response:

You said:
"By capitalistic oppression I mean the way we are taught to think, what we are taught it means to get ahead and be successful in life, how much of a premium we are brain-washed into putting in those, the amount of selves we will compromise to achieve those things.

Those are some reasons one might have for seeking to maintain their socio-economic status at any cost, for seeing the loss of what you've achieved as a type of devastation."

I agree, for the most part. I don't entirely buy into the second sentence.

"Is that a healthy mindset in your opinion."

No.

"Is it simply a matter of choosing such a blighted disposition or might it be learned?"

Both. For her, like most of us, it was probably learned. But as the business owner, she also had a choice, as far as I know. There is absolutely no evidence that supports the "economic disaster" (which implies she had no choice) you are arguing.

"At some point we both have to concede you may take what I posted however you like, and regardless of how explicitly I attempt to restate myself there will be some loophole allowing you to continue in that vein. I don't accuse you of doing that intentionally but it does seem to be the case."

I don't concede that at all. I did not do it either intentionally or unintentionally. Unless you can prove me wrong, this is an unfair statement on your part.

"I do apologize because it appears the poster I mistook you for the poster who originally responded to me, forgive my confusion. I do feel my previous post gave you a satisfactory response, albeit possibly an oblique one (which I hope I've clarified)"

Yes you have clarified, so thanks for that and for the apology.

"EDIT: for a bit more perspective of economic realities and how they interface with employee dishonesty and corruption and unethical behavior see post #65 which address this field specifically."

I read post #65, however the woman we are talking about here is not an employee, but the owner of the polling firm. So other than underscoring the fact that she seems to have been the decisionmaker in this fraud (possibly causing her employees economic hardship), this is irrelevant to the discusion you and I are having, unless I am missing your point.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

24. Google shows a Tracy Costin involved in polling fraud.

Is this her? I don't care if she's your best friend; polling fraud gets damned nasty. If she wanted to be spared "public humiliation," she ought not to have committed polling fraud, eh?

On edit: I see it is the same person from posts above. WHY THE HELL did she make up polling results?

Gotta side with KO on this one.

[bridgit]

61. having worked in the field, polling companies often pay survey...

takers minimum +/-, being strapped in many an instance; they, owners & supervisors, are known to require them to work till samples are completed (i.e. survey calls people may receive past 9:30pm etc)...completed samples are part & parcel of the business and are indicators of continued & more varied projects as in: your craft is your business card, so as to say = projects fall through :shrug: no more work :cry: cause they that contract the work simply go to the next firm that performs these important tasks, perhaps even more timely & completely

to hand a falsified sample to a client is the used car lot version of knowingly selling a 'lemon' right off the lot

that's my take on the matter as to 'why'; and i've worked for some of the very best...and the decidedly less so, there is another answer as to why...but that one is flat-out nefarious

[LaurenG]

31. Redstone you are a good and loyal friend

A human being couldn't ask for more. I am sorry for your pain and I hope you feel better soon.

[nini]

32. oh bullshit

You're bashing one of the few true journalists in the country who dares to speak against the fucking cabal these days because your friend was stupid enough to do what she did?

Your friend fucked up - that's not Keith's fault. What she did was obviously shitty enough to catch the attention of his staff.

If she did not break the law this wouldn't be an issue. Too bad your friend didn't consider the effect her actions would have on herself or those who care about her. Your anger is displaced here.

[Donkeyboy75]

38. Falsifying poll data could be serious.

So, what's the deal? Keith needs to check with you before submitting his "Worst Person in the World?"

[bridgit]

58. it is serious, falsifying polling & survey data is part of how...

the cheney/bush admin prevents funding from going to the areas it needs most to be; it emboldens neocon 'junk science'

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. It was a pretty bad thing to do

I wonder how you would feel if you were one of her clients?

The owner and operator of a polling company has admitted in federal court in Bridgeport to falsifying survey and polling results that caused seven clients to lose more than $190,000, the U.S. attorney for Connecticut announced Wednesday.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zseriesman]

45. Keith Olbermann

I thought that "worst person in the world" was reserved for "O'Reilly". I would not pay attention to anything K.O had to say.

[bridgit]

48. welcome to du, zseriesman...

but i do disagree with you :hi: :kick:

[Skip Intro]

46. I'm finding it hard to feel sympathy for her, man.

She was trying to manipulate the will of the people with lies,to the benifit of the regime and their tools.

As nice a person as she may be, that's a pretty bad.

[prolesunited]

51. And I'm sure EVERY person

who Olberman names as worst has family and friends who love them, despite whatever they have done.

Should Olberman call you and make sure they are not on your friends list before he publicly airs their wrongdoings -- you know, just doing *his* job as a journalist.

Or perhaps since you think falsifying data is just fine, maybe you think he should just fabricate people to mock just so he doesn't piss anyone off?

[Redstone]

65. Would you be so kind as to tell me exactly where the fuck I said

that I "think falsifying data is just fine?"

I'll send you $100.00 in the mail if you can point that out.

Redstone

[Placebo]

53. I heart Saint Keith.

Maybe Tracy Costin shouldn't have made up poll results.

Just a thought.

[fleabert]

56. you have always seemed like a loyal friend, so your anger and

protective stance are no surprise to me. I am glad to have you in my corner on any day. :hug:

It seems that the polls were falsified to make deadlines, is that correct? I can see how it could have snowballed- get a little behind, fudge one or two, then it just gets out of hand- especially during a time when polling was getting more and necessary for all parties.

If you vouch for this woman- I believe you. Your word is all I need. Sorry you have been blasted for defending your friend. You made it quite clear in the OP that you thought she should be punished fairly and that KO went over the line in your opinion.

I've got your back Red- not that you need it- but I do.

to those that want to flame redstone again :

ANYONE GOT SHIT TO SAY ABOUT REDSTONE BETTER SAY IT TO ME TOO! BACK OFF !

[Redstone]

63. Thanks, kiddo, but it's OK. Anyone who thinks I'm wrong is welcome

to argue the point with me.

Though I sure wish some of them would read what I actually said, and did not say.

I did not say she didn't do it. (In fact, I'm not terribly surprised, because she always was a really lousy busineswoman.)

I did not say that she shouldn't be punished for what she did.

What I did say was that what she did does not make her "the worst person in the world."

Thanks again, though. You're a good pal.

Redstone

[fleabert]

73. you are a stand up guy- and that means that people should stand up with

you sometimes.

you are a tough cookie, I know you don't NEED my protection, but I had to put it out there.

I don't have a real opinion about KO- I like most of what he says, but he certainly doesn't have me DVR-ing his show, like Colbert and Stewart do. Finding obscure shit and making a big deal out it is fine- as long as it has some meaning behind it, or humor at least. Sounds like he had neither. Now, if she was changing numbers and manipulating data in a way that advantaged a party or election for that end, I would agree with 'worst ever', but it sounded to me (from the article, not you) that it was about demographic needs and party affiliation that were mandates from the clients, and the rest was made up- all to meet deadlines. Still sucks, but not evil.

Bush on the other hand? Evil.

:loveya: :hug:

[Redstone]

76. You're a good friend. If you and Mr Flea are ever in New Hampshire

(supposing, of course, that we're able to make the move), come on by and stay with us for a few days. Lots of mountains to climb up there.

Redstone

[many a good man]

64. To tell ya the truth, I can't stand KO's "humor" segments

Worst in the World is usually Ok, but it leaves me scratching my head sometimes. I find Oddball offensive almost every day. Wish he'd stick to news.

[Gatchaman]

66. He can't just alternate between the coultergeist and o'lielly every night

or just but bush on there every night. The Worst Person in the World is for people who are merely players in the political arena who leap to the foreground and fuck up or say stupid shit. And she fucked up. Bad.

I'd say he's spot on with this one.

[bullwinkle428]

68. I watched the segment, and was totally scratching my head over

the choice of her as "Worst Person" - sure, he'll sometimes have people totally out of the public eye as WP, but it's typically reserved for those like the father that left his 5 year old in the car for several hours while he was hanging out in a strip club, or some such matter. It made me wonder if there was more to this story, like maybe he had some personal dealings with her that were unfavorable, and he used this as an opportunity to get back at her. I'm not attempting to defend her actions in any way; I just wonder about KO's choice as well.

[Redstone]

69. Well, be careful what you say. I didn't defend her actions either, but I

sure ended up having a lot of people accuse me of doing just that.

Redstone

[bullwinkle428]

70. I completely understood your point right away, and felt compelled

to post because my own immediate reaction to that choice was that of utter confusion; certainly when there are so many other candidates out there more worthy of the title (and NO, he doesn't HAVE to use O'Reilly every night, despicable as he is!). Maybe he was pissed off because someone sent him an e-mail saying "Why do you always choose O'Reilly? Waaaahhhh...."

[Redstone]

72. Thank you.

Redstone

[Zhade]

71. Pretty inexcusable on her part.

I happen to think tampering with the democratic process does make one eligible for the title.

But then, b*s* and cheney are still free, so you have a point. A biased point, but a point nonetheless.

Sorry about your friend. Maybe you can help show her how she was wrong, if she doesn't know yet.

[Redstone]

74. Oh, she does know. That's why the guilty plea.

As much as I like her, I will say that she should never have owned a business, because she's a pretty poor businesswoman.

Especially not that kind of business. And if she couldn't keep it afloat without doing something illegal, she should have just closed the doors and found a job.

And I'd have told her this back then if I knew what was going on.

Now she'll have some time to sit in a cell and think about it.

And I DO have to wonder if people here at DU would have been so vituperative if it had been the case that she was skewing the polls toward the Democrats instead of just being lazy? I've seen people here advocate some pretty lousy (and illegal) things to try to influence voters.

Redstone

[Zhade]

75. Yeah. It sucks.

Fwiw, I feel for ya.

Can I ask how you know her?

[Redstone]

77. I had a romantic realtionship with her before I met Mrs R.

It didn't work out too well, but we remained friends after then, plus had a business relationship (she was doing computer graphics, not polling at the time). Mrs R became friends with her as well.

Redstone

[Moderator]

78. Locking

This has unfortunately turned into a flamefest.