So am I the only SF TV fan who hates Battlestar Galactica?

[hyphenate]

To me, it's just sooooo much melodrama. It reminds me in some ways of Babylon 5 after about the third season when it started to get impressed with itself.

I've always been devoted to most SF over the past forty years, but I really hate when shows start to fall in love with themselves.

Now, some might criticize two of my favorites, SG-1 and Atlantis, but they don't take themselves so serious that they go over the top. When a series can laugh at itself, it's worth the effort I put into watching it, but when a show becomes too serious and can't do that, it has done the SF equivalent of jumping the shark, IMO.

That's why I have found some of the shows that have been put on as wayyyyy too much for me. I found that some shows are trying too hard, start off as being high and mighty and therefore above reproach, or just are too high concept to be fun.

Anyhow, I suppose that's why I like shows like the new series, "Eureka." It definitely does NOT take itself too seriously, and as a result, it's enjoyable to me to watch. Even a series like "The Dead Zone" with its often serious theme, takes a break every now and then to make a lighter episode. It gives people a chance to relax and join in on the fun for awhile.

When they brought back BSG, I suppose I don't know what I was looking for, but what it "is" is not it. I can see much wringing of hands and over the top acting, but nothing that I can truly enjoy. Whatever it has that keeps fans watching eludes me, but I guess that's just part of the charm of watching TV shows--we can all pick and choose what fancies us.

[haf216]

1. Well I'm really into it,

but waiting for the next season. With the way they left it, they have a good shot at losing me.

[SoyCat]

2. When I watched television, I was more of a Star Trek person.

[gkdmaths]

3. Blasphemer!

Now, I live for BSG most of the time, but forget to watch it.

Ive never been able to watch the stargate shows for the same reason you like them: I cant take them seriously because they dont take them seriously.

I do, however, like the Eureka show, and even more than that - have fallen in love with Dead Like Me.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

5. I agree.

I can't stand Stargate simply because they don't take themselves seriously.
Shows like that are the reason good drama like BG can't get off the SciFi channel and onto network televison.

[hyphenate]

7. I caught one episode of Dead Like Me

But didn't care for it. I know that one episode isn't enough to judge a series on, so I can't really say much about it, but it looks very satirical, which is cool.

I like Mandy Patinkin in Criminal Minds. I keep waiting, though, for him to burst out and say, "I am Inigo Montoya--you killed my father, prepare to die!"

[NewJeffCT]

11. I know what you mean about Patinkin...

In Lord of the Rings, I kept waiting for Hugo Weaving to say, "Welcome to Rivendell... Mr. Anderson"

I was looking for the old comic strip "Dork Tower" that featured that line.

[gkdmaths]

15. Every time I see him

I hear that phrase.

oh, and "you've been mostly dead all day". :rofl:

[hyphenate]

16. It's amazing no matter

how many roles a person can take, there is always one memorable performance that stands above all the rest. At least Mandy's was in a decent movie!

[haf216]

37. I loved Dead Like Me!

Was very sad when it went off the air.

[gkdmaths]

48. its on scifi

on tuesdays.

However, Ive been told that I need to rent the uncut versions because the swearing is supposed to be priceless.

[haf216]

52. Yes, some of it would not be the same without the swearing.

I have been thinking about buying DVD, if I can find them. It's always the good shows they take off the air.

[Archae]

4. I detest it.

Bad writing, iffy acting, lousy FX, stupid stories, and dumb characters.

Give the old BSG anyday, I mean this new one is nearly as bad as "Galactica 1980."

[everythingsxen]

6. Dude..

I will give you as freebies the writing, acting, storyline and characters. I won't even fight. I disagree, but will not fight.

But the FX? Come on! The space combat is so sweet. I have never seen anything like it. It is phenomenally done. I suppose you didn't see the episode where Apollo ejected and was leaking air and dying in space, with a huge ass battle going on around him. It took my breath away. He would roll and you would see beautiful empty, awe-inspiring space, then he rolls again and it's epic space battle from Hell.

[hyphenate]

8. Thank you!

At least I know I'm not alone in the world!

[Cobalt-60]

32. I don't know about that!

Galactica 80 used its entire season fx budget on one shot of Doctor "Zee's" saucer. It is the nadir of TV Sci Fi.
For the most part I like the remake.
I wouldn't have gone with the humanoid cylons angle, but it does save a total butt load on fx and costumes.
I do like the updated Cylon centurion and the Cylon ships.
I never did think Lorne Greene got mad enough about the elimination of Caprica. Ed Olmos beat a Cylon to death with a flashlight over it this time.
There have been objections to the number of women. But as I tell my friends , the girls are watching now. ( I wouldn't have sci fi return to a nearly stag affair.)
Its definitely not the original Galactica. That was a product of the Disco age.
The cheesecake was better (Ive always had a thing for Anne Lockheart) and the Bridge of the old STL Galactica a good deal more splendid.
I thought the fascists of the Eastern Alliance needed more camera time. They weren't cringing dirt farmers waiting to be murdered by the Cylons.
Even if they lost it would have been glorious.

[China_cat]

9. No, you aren't.

[sweetheart]

10. Only for the republican-eye

Whenever i see a republican greedily selling wars on TV, i can't
help but be reminded of the cylon's eye going back and forth in
the little tin head.

Battlestar gallactica has given us the ultimate sterotype for
a republican, and for that i'm thankful.

[Gatchaman]

12. I find Stargate to be uninspired and pedestrian

They're just going through the motions, trying to stay within comfortable conventions and not appeal to anything outside of, or challenge, their target demographic. In many ways, they're a lot like the original Battlestar Galactica.

[quinnox]

13. I won't watch it

It just looks stupid to me. Also, I thought Babylon Five was one of the worst sci - fi shows too and I know there are many who think it is so great.

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. Gosh - I don't see that in Battlestar Galactica at all. I think it's great

Wonderful writing, compelling stories, highly creative, fantastic acting. I think BG is, all-around, some brilliant science fiction.

The Stargate series of, what, three spinoff franchises, however, is positively boring. It's not bad, it's not awful - not TekWar bad - but I don't think any of them are interesting, I think they are repetitive and uninspiring, and I simploy have never been able to get my interest into them long enough to watch an entire episode, except the couple that my friend made me watch on DVD once. If I had to, I could happily sit through them - as I did with my friend - but I would never watch any of them on purpose.

[Deja Q]

17. Hardly the only one.

Melodrama to the max.

Inane sociological pablum trying to be pawned off as plots...

Characters who, despite having their own struggles, come off worse than cardboard...

I prefer it when shows do take themselves seriously; but are not in of themselves serious. E.g. "Doctor Who". Especially the early Tom Baker run (seasons 12-14), there is an appropriate mix of humor and seriousness. Though I appreciate earlier and later eras of the show as well... (though I'm not entirely a fan of the new 2005 series...)

[hyphenate]

24. Thanks

I am grateful for all the backing!

[billyskank]

18. What I like about SG-1

is how you hear the usual techno-bullshit, usually from Captain Carter, and most people in the audience have their eyes rolling. And then Colonel O'Neil looks at her and asks like, what the hell is that shit?

:D

[hyphenate]

25. Yeah--

most people always get completely bored out of their minds with technobabble, so it's good to have a show that while it manages to explain some details, it has a character who prefers the simple explanation. Saves a lot of time wasted on expository dialogue.

[CBGLuthier]

19. In all seriousness

What exactly in the SF fantasy world of televiewing do you like?

I have seen that you do not like B5, which I think was the finest SF ever, and you do not like Dead Like Me which was not a bad show.

So what do you consider good SF TV?

[hyphenate]

23. What do I like?

Well, let's see.

Stargate SG-1
Staraget Atlantis
The ORIGINAL Night Stalker with Darren McGavin
The X-Files up to when David Duchovny left
The first couple of seasons of Voyage To the Bottom of the Sea (not after they went to aliens and other monsters)
Star Trek: TOS
Star Trek: DS9
Star Trek: TNG
UFO (because it WAS cheesy, but a whole lotta fun!)
Twilight Zone
Outer Limits
Eureka
Greatest American Hero
V
The Invisible Man (the most recent one with Vinny Ventresca)
The Man from UNCLE
The Champions
The first 3 seasons of Farscape
Buffy
Angel
Six Million Dollar Man
Bionic Woman
Mutant X
Time Trax
a very short lived show called Space Rangers
Time Tunnel
Quantum Leap
first few seasons of Sliders
Strange Luck
Eerie, Indiana
Starlost
Quark



There are plenty more, but going back over 40 years of TV is a bit of an order. I'm sure there are plenty more.

BTW, I never said I didn't like "Dead Like Me." I said I only saw one episode and couldn't stay interested. There is a major difference there.

As far as B5 is concerned, I did watch it, but after the third season, I couldn't take it anymore. It had less to do with the show, though, than events surrounding the show, and personal knowledge, which I won't go into. And I didn't have cable at that time, so didn't see the 5th season at all, but by then I'd stopped watching.

I have probably seen more SF over the past 40 years than most people even know existed. And while I'm not always discriminating, I always get something out of the shows I do watch.

[CBGLuthier]

27. Let us not get into a pissing contest

over SF lovers. I worship the format as few do.

Mostly I can agree wth your choices so no reason to disagree. I do think your arguments against B5 may be a litle weak but I can see the quality in most of your favorites.

Especially the original Night Stalker. Obviously you have taste.

Anyway. as a fellow lover of the art I do not want to alienate you. I have not watched all of BSG so can not judge. I just think they were trying to do something good so I give them credit.

Live long and Prosper you SF lover you. :-)

[hyphenate]

39. Thank you

I agree-we need to stick together as SF fans because the genre really doesn't get the kind of respect it should. But I think a lot of that has changed over the years. We went from the really campy crap in the 1960s and evolved from there. There is still a lot of ground to make up, but eventually, the genre will be acceptable on a more permanent basis.

[Gatchaman]

33. Space Rangers freakin' ruled!

When do we get a DVD release of this?

[Cobalt-60]

34. It was a good concept

there were talented actors and a sufficient budget.
They tried to feature every member of the large cast every episode. Its one of the things that was wrong with Crusade.

[hedgehog]

40. My favorite Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea:

The episode where the mad scientist brought some sort of mutant creature or plant on board that kept growing and getting heavier. It was getting so heavy that it was going to sink the submarine. Apparently no on ever explained to the writers that a submerged sub is a closed system and that all that extra matter had to come from somewhere!

[Zhade]

20. Yes, yes you are.

REPENT!

:D

(Personally, I dig the show. But it's all good.)

[Guy Fawkes]

21. Galactica sucks.

It tries too hard to be dark and dramatic. I don't like it.

[Ravenseye]

22. No, but I love it

I like BSG, SG1, Atlantis, Dead Like Me, Eureka, The Dead Zone, and more. I wasn't a huge fan of B5 but only because I missed too many episodes and couldn't keep up. I should rent them sometime.

I think there are different types of sci-fi shows, or should be. Those self-referential fun shows are great, but don't belong everywhere. Maybe BSG is too 'heavy' for you. That's cool. I personally love it because it seems to me to be honestly trying to deal with the situation more as a what if and not as 'wouldn't it be great to have an episode where they go to a planet which releases spores which makes everyone high? It'd be hilarious!' which would just destroy BSG.

Stargate SG-1 (with O'Neill) ? Man I'd fork over 20 bucks to buy a ticket to watch a 1 hour episode of that. Same thing on BSG with Starbuck and Apollo? Fuck that. Theyr'e just different types of shows. Maybe a revisitation of Buck Rodgers could up the camp level and you'd like it, but personally i love the melodrama in BSG.

I disagree about the over the top acting (though there are a couple bad actors in there that they got stuck with). What keeps me watching? I love the mythos. I want to see what happens. I like the characters. I feel like i'm one of the 50 thousand watching what happens to the human race. I want to see what aspects they'll continue to pull in from the old series, and which trends they'll buck. My favorite show on T.V.

[hyphenate]

26. Yes

I agree--if we all came to television wanting the same thing, things would get get pretty boring. I guess I'm just pissed off at sci-fi because they have chosen to pull the plug on SG-1, and I KNOW that a lot of it has more to do with money than it does with anything else. (BSG is inhouse at Universal, SG-1 is from MGM, so more money)

I know that Richard Hatch wanted to be in creative control of the new BSG, but it never happened. I know the original was campy (as was Buck Rogers) but for 1978, it was pretty good, with some excellent scripts that provoked thought and discussion.

Anyhow, I think that not everyone is going to love everything on. I watch SF for a wide variety of reasons, mostly because I've been a fan since I was a little kid. I read almost anything I could put my hands on when I was younger, and still read as much fantasy and SF as I can. I read an average of one to two books a week right now, and always have.

I don't like BSG for a wide variety of reasons, just as some people don't like SG-1 for their own reasons--I just wanted to see if there were others out there that didn't like it, to prove that I'm not the only one.

[YankeyMCC]

28. If not the only one I suspect you're one of a small minority

It sounds like you are among those that don't believe Science Fiction is, as a genre, capable or allowed to attempt to rise to the level of 'legitimate legitimate' or in this case 'series TV drama'.

The new BSG certainly gets dark at times but they are the last of humanity and facing constant extinction and have lost EVERYTHING.

I think that calls for a bit of darkness :)

Yet the characters are so well written and played that there have been moments of laughter and hope and other such things that make up a human life.

It takes itself no more seriously than many other TV dramas set in contemporary settings.

Now perhaps serious drama isn't your thing. It's just frustrating when a SF show gets dinged for achieving what 'main stream' shows often get praised for.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

31. I had a reply all written up, but YankeyMCC said it better.

:thumbsup:

I mean, come on. The Cylons attempted genocide, killing billions of people, and people complain that the show takes itself too seriously? :wtf:

What do they want? A wacky alternate universe episode? Or one where people switch bodies? Been there, done that. Too many times, on too
many different shows.

I agree with you, YankeyMCC. This is really, really frustrating when a SF show does the same that "main stream" shows do all the time, and people
complain that it's too "melodramatic". Settling back on the old standby of "new alien/stellar anomoly/holodeck glitch every week" makes for
very, very repetitive television.
That's the resason most network executives consider science-ficiton to be "kids stuff".

Battlestar Galactica is probably the only science fiction show I've seen in a long time that could stand a real chance of decent ratings
on a major television network.

[hyphenate]

36. On the contrary

I got really pissed off when three highly placed SF series--X Files, Angel and Buffy--were so blatantly left out when it came to awards for serious drama. All 3 had excellent episodes that deserved more than plaudits, but the general population that votes for the awards are the ones who overlooked their contribution to the TV world.

And to be honest, most of the TV shows I watch on major networks are all, except one, dramas. The one exception is Two and a Half Men. And I count among my top 10 favorite shows (still in first run) CSI (TOS); CSI: New York; Medium; Without a Trace; L&O: SVU; Numb3rs; Criminal Minds. You can't get much more dramatic than most of these shows!

IMO, my disdain for BSG has more to do with it being "soap opera" to me. I have always found shows that refuse to complete a story within the time allotted to a single episode to be too rigid in structure. A two parter is one thing, but trying to follow story arcs over multiple seasons, over every single episode, is not for me. I remember back in the early 90s when the series, "Wiseguy" began a trend with story arcs, and it annoyed me. While I understand and know that sometimes things can't be done within the hour episode limit, to take a show and devote every minute of it to a rigid and fixed format is not for me.

I think this is one of the reasons I hated B5 after awhile, too. Most TV shows worked with a lot of writers for different episodes, and while they had to follow canon, it was a good way to see different sides of characters. But when you have a megalomaniac running the show (literally) like Straczynski did on B5, it's simply an ego trip and not as pleasurable an experience. Part of this had to do with me being in the industry during those years and I knew more about Straczynski than most people, so like I said, there were some personal reasons behind why I couldn't stand the show after a time. But when a show is under the strict control of one person, where story arcs rule without any resolution on individual episodes (pretty much why I stopped watching ST: Enterprise as well--the Xindi arc ruined the show for me) then it requires far more attention and committment than I want to give.

Anyhow, that's my reasoning. It's not everybody else's, though, and that's cool. :)

[hedgehog]

41. I thought the episode of Buffy in which her mother dies of

natural causes was one of the best episodes of TV ever, forget about being one of the best sci-fi shows.

[YankeyMCC]

43. Ok I see what you are trying to say but one more point

You think it isn't pleasurable but I do and many others too apparently. I like something that isn't always wrapped up in a nice package after 42 minutes (the time typically left in a one hour drama after commercials) because that's a heck a lot more like real life.

And there's a difference between that and "soap opera". Soap operas focus on mundane, petty events in the lives of shallow characters (not to dis any soap opera fans, if you like to have fun with them by all means, and certainly there are exceptions). And BSG deals with deep and Interesting issues for individuals and the society developed in the show.

And as for 'ego trip' BSG is not controlled by one man at all. There's a team of producers and another larger team of writers, who have taken the show in directions not planned by the producer/creators. So this is no ego trip. Same could be said about B5 although I do think JMS did have tighter control in that case and I will say BSG is better and perhaps that is partly because of the looser control.

So maybe that's two more points. Certainly no show is going to please everyone. IMO BSG is not only the best SF show on TV it's the best SHOW on TV.

BTW: I wont give a detailed critique of the SG shows because I don't watch them regularly. I've heard good things, at least about SG1 and I suspect the show often puts out a good episode and has some good characters. (Particularly now with the Ben Bowder and Claudia Black on the cast) But I will say this. I tried watching SG1 a couple of times and it didn't hold my interest for one full episode never mind getting me hooked into the series. And this was after finally seeing the movie on TV and finding that it was better than I expected. Yet even when I cringed at the idea of "reminagining" BSG and fully expected to hate the new version within 5 minutes of watching the new BSG I was hooked and hoping they would create a series (they did that short miniseries first).

[hyphenate]

50. I understand where you are coming from

and I never want to disuade anyone from seeing what they enjoy.

I can't say I was thinking about BSG when I was talking about the "one-man control" of a show. No, that criticism was about B5 only. As I said, I have many personal reasons why I couldn't enjoy B5, and that was only one of the reasons. Suffice to say that I really don't care for a producer who doesn't release creative control over any aspect of a show to anyone at all, and who gave himself the title of "God" during the production of the series. And, as I said, a lot of it is personal, and I do mean "personal" as in between me, the individual and JMS.

You are right about not everything being able to be finished within a small, 42 minute window most of the time. But perhaps because I am a TV baby of the late 50s and 60s, I have a certain feeling for shows that can offer some closure within a period of time, whether it happens to be a 1 hour episode or potentially a two-parter. If it goes beyond that, and there is a chance of me missing a segment, I don't bother with it. And if it's an ongoing story arc of 22 or more episodes, forget about it. Strange as it may seem, I personally know Jon Cassar who just received his Emmy as director for the series, "24" and I would love to be able to watch the show since Jon has been doing it for a couple of years now, but I just have no capacity for a long term viewing.

Given, some shows are just not meant for me, and that's fine with me. And some shows aren't meant for others, and that's fine as well. Sort of like my philosophy in many areas of the world, including religion and politics! As long as no one is shoving their beliefs down my throat (which the radical religious right does on a neverending basis) I am perfectly content to let them enjoy their fun and I will enjoy mine. As I stated elsewhere, I started this thread not as a challenge to BSG fans, but to find SG fans, and there is a difference!

[Ravenseye]

44. Here's what I don't get about your position

(not saying it's invalid...I just don't understand...i'm not being snarky. ;) )

"trying to follow story arcs over multiple seasons, over every single episode, is not for me."

Isn't that pretty much Stargate SG-1? I mean the first couple of seasons there was the overaching story of the Go'auld and finding Daniel's wife, but they were mostly one shot episodes. By season 6-7 though it really started getting integrated. I had hooked my wife on the show, an she watched seasons 1-5 straight, but missed Daniel's asscenion and a few other things and was totally lost. She never got back into it in the same way as before (Though she'll still watch it).

The last two seasons have been pretty much that model with 1 episode here and there as a humorous break. Otherwise it's solid single story. The two seaons before that it was the same thing but with replicators/asgard/ending the goauld.

I guess I'm surprised you'd dislike BSG for this when Stargate itself is guilty of the same 'crime', in fact I'd even say SG-1 the past two seasons have been even worse than BSG at it. Which I've loved of course....sucks that it's being canceled.

[hyphenate]

51. I don't think that SG1 is really a

season long story arc like BSG, for example. There is an underlying theme on the series, of course, which makes up part of the canon of the show, and some elements do tie in with other episodes, which of course is natural. However, that kind of "backstory" is common in almost all TV shows. For instance, a series like CSI: New York--we are introduced in an episode to the main stars of the show, and to the unraveling of two, sometimes three, crime scenes. It isn't re-established in every single episode that Gary Sinese is playing the boss, that Melina Kanakaredes is his #2, and that the other investigators are under their supervision. It isn't always pointed out that Sheldon Hawkes (Hill Harper's character) is a former ME who is now a field investigator, nor is it pointed out that Detective Lindsay Monroe (Anna Belnap) has come in to replace Aiden Burn (Vanessa Ferlito) after Aiden was fired for messing with forensic evidence. These things aren't completely necessary to enjoy the episode, or the single episode of a lot of different shows that just have backstory to them. If there was no backstory, nearly every show on TV would be an anthology series and not a weekly drama or other continuous series.

As far as Stargate SG-1 in particular is concerned, you might want to check out the website, Gateworld, at http://www.gateworld.net. They have excellent summaries of every single episode, the details on what episodes might be connected with others in the past, and really good biographies on all the characters, even some of the lesser known ones. But I also don't think it's completely necessary to be aware of all factors during the viewing of a single episode--usually there is a brief summary at the start of an episode which gives you an idea of what was dealt with in the past that is pertinent to the coming episode.

Now, as for SG1 getting cancelled, trust me--there are things being pondered which will give all of us some satisfaction rather than frustration, and there are still 10 episodes coming up in the spring that will definitely be worth waiting for. We still have two or three episodes this month to see as well.

[hickman]

29. I said this last year here and I stand by it.

Too dark too grim. Nothing ever goes well, everyone is a villain, and never any resolution to any story line. It feels like a soap opera written by a paranoid suicidal joker.

[bridgit]

30. nope...

x(

[bikebloke]

35. Not a fan of scifi

Science fiction never really hooked me. I watched Star Trek in its original broadcast, as well as Battlestar Galactica (In the late 70's while walking through Stockholm, I passed a cinema with a scifi flick that looked familiar. They turned Lorne Green's Battlestar Galctica into a movie for Europe). I like the gritty drama and the struggle for survival of Battlestar Galactica's current incarnation. Why should scifi be in the StarWars/Trek mode? There's enough of that around already.

I also liked Firefly/Serenity.

[khashka]

38. I agree

I've had this discussion/argument before and the fans are vicious. I abstain.


Khash.

[hedgehog]

42. Does anyone else remember the original showing of the original

Battle Star Galactica? As I recall, right before the show started, all programing was interrupted to show Jimmy Carter, Begin and Sadat signing a peace accord at Camp David. Then Battlestar Galatica opened up with Lorne Greene signing a peace accord with the Cylons. The next thing that happened was that the Cylons broke the treaty with a spectacular attack that ended with only a few refugees escaping. My husband and I agreed that that was rather a poor juxtaposition of events.

[sarge43]

49. I remember it very well.

Even was foolish enough to think maybe, just maybe, there'll be permanent peace in the ME.

[Cannikin]

45. I love it.

[Vidar]

46. I like it but find it often difficult to follow.

[Broken_Hero]

47. I think its good

not, "I gotta watch every episode" but its hard for me to find any tv show that is that way with me...The look, feel, action of BSG looks very good, but I never got into it really...

I'm not a big fan of any sci-fi show really...except Lex, and Farscape...:hi: