Boy Scouts In My Son's School Yesterday

[Lyric]

My little boy came home from school yesterday terribly excited. During his lunch period, the Boy Scouts of America were given the opportunity to come "recruit" new members among the children at his school. Unfortunately, I had to tell him that he couldn't be a part of the Scouts, because (1) His parents are lesbians and we cannot allow him to participate in a group that teaches him to look down on gay people, and (2) Our family in Atheist, and the Scouts require all members to profess a belief in God. My son had no idea what "God" was. Until yesterday, he thought "God" was another word for "Flag" (thank you, Pledge of Allegiance)

My son is six years old. We had managed to keep him from being exposed to things like religious discrimination and homophobia until now. But thanks to whoever approved the Boy Scouts' visit during school hours without any notification or parental consent, I was forced to talk to him about complex and adult issues that he's too young to understand. He was so upset--cried for an hour, then was quiet and withdrawn for the rest of the night. I was very upset that my 6-year old child had been exposed to a discriminatory, bigoted group for the purpose of recruitment, in a public school, without any notice or consent from his parents.

So I just got off the phone with the vice-principal of his elementary school. She was incredibly apologetic, and informed me that this "visit" from the BSA is something that the county school board organizes every year at the start of the school year, and they administration of the school itself had no say in the matter. She absolutely promised me that this would never happen again--she intends to take our written complaint to the school board, along with the report from the school counselor (whom I requested to meet with my son and talk about what happened). She wants to help make sure that no child is ever left feeling "not good enough" or "second class" due to something like this ever again.

So--do you think I was being overly-sensitive, or a concerned and vocal parent? Any thoughts on how to proceed from here? All I personally want is to have the chance to say "No" to having my son exposed to that sort of bigoted group, but my domestic partner thinks we should go all the way and ask the school board to ban the Scouts' recruitment visits for all schools during school hours.

[RetroLounge]

1. I think you acted appropriately.

I was in scouting up until I was 17. It was a good experience for me, but in that time, we never saw the discrimination that they push today, and God was just a word we said.

That said, I would NOT let my kids join for the same reasons...

:hi:

You did good. Be sure to thank the VP after this is all over. She sounds like she has her head on right.

RL

[Lyric]

5. I know--my brother was a Scout too

and I don't remember "God" or sexual orientation being a big deal back then. Perhaps that was because nobody really talked about such things at the time.

Either way, it just seems morally icky to invite a group like that to recruit little boys without any chance for parents to say "No, I don't want my child exposed to this." :/

[ulysses]

2. as long as the scouts exclude folks based on religion and orientation,

I believe you would be absolutely correct in demanding that they not be allowed to recruit during school hours. Said as a former Eagle Scout.

[redqueen]

9. Hi there... good to see you around!

Hope the family's doing great. :hug:

[ulysses]

12. rq!

:hi: How are things?

[redqueen]

20. All over the place... ugh...

I'll be so glad when it's 11/8. :)

[SteppingRazor]

3. Good for you for voicing your opinion! I would say, though...

that how religious the Boy Scouts are depends on what troop you're in. I'm an Eagle Scout myself, and not once in my years in the Scouts did I have to profess any sort of belief in God, unless you include the Scout Oath "On my honor I will do my duty to God and my country, etc..." Of course, if you don't believe in God, then your duty to him is nil, so I never had a problem with this either. :shrug:

[Whoa_Nelly]

4. Where I used to teach, Scouts had to send home a notice at least a week

before they were to come to the school, AND the sign-up/recruitment was only allowed to happen after school hours. They were considered to be separate from school curriculum, such as the church that used to rent out our multipurpose room. Scouts also had to pay the school a fee to use the facilities, same as the karate classes that were held there. Had to do with excluding groups from insurance liability.

Sorry your boy had to go have such an intrusion in his life. :hug:

[Lyric]

8. They came during the kids' lunch hour

and did a presentation in the cafeteria while the little ones were eating. Talk about a captive audience.

[Whoa_Nelly]

19. That is so wrong! That was something parents should have been

able to attend. It's the parents' decision, the parents' money, and most of all, the parents' choice as to what their child is exposed to during school hours that is NOT part of the school curriculum.daily schedule.

Were it my child's school, I would complain loudly to the principal and to the higher-ups in the district, on the phone, through email, and in return receipt mail. All parents have the right to due process should their concerns/complaints meet the parameters of the district/county/state guidelines.

I would defintely take action. It's as I always told my son when he was growing up: Bad behavior is no secret. If you keep quiet, you set the stage for all that follows. If you take action, you can make a difference.

At age 27, he heeds those words even yet, and is teaching his children the same thing. By setting a standard and example by action, my son learned valuable lessons.

Hope things smooth out for your son.

On edit:
You were in no way overly sensitive regarding this issue. He's your son.

I wouldn't count on the VP to take it to the school board. But, if she does, I would make sure to be at that meeting. School board meetings are supposed to be open meetings.

[deadparrot]

6. After-school activities are called that for a reason.

:hug:

You done good, I think. School is a place for learning, not for recruitment for extracurricular activities, especially if said activity is not directly affiliated with the school.

[redqueen]

7. No, I don't think you were being overly sensitive.

I think you did what any concerned parent would do. The fact that bigoted groups like these are given access to children should be an outrage to all of us.

[Breeze54]

10. The BS showed up every year; just as the

Little League, Girl Scouts and Brownies, etc. did; when my son was in elementary school.
My biggest worry now is the Military showing up to 'recruit', at the high school!! :grr:
Maybe the school should be posting a calender on their website or sending home a notice
beforehand? They do or did when mine were in grammer school.
Maybe you should bring that up when, you also, attend the school board meeting!!
Don't rely on the principal to do your talking for you! Get Involved!
That's my advice! ;)

[Lyric]

14. The right thing is so hard to do in this situation.

But I guess that's life--the "right" thing is rarely the "easy" thing. :/

My instinct is to refrain from making a big fuss, so he won't get bullied, teased, and ostracized by the other kids when the local Fundies catch wind of what's going on. But I don't want him to think that it's okay to stay quiet about issues of equality and bigotry.

I hope the school board just gets rid of the school-hours visits without any resistance, so we can avoid the inevitable clash with the local nutjobs. However, I do recognize that I'd be setting a poor example if I didn't stand up for what I believe is "right". I'm just worried that he'll be caught in the middle.

When we get our Spring student loans, I'm seriously considering the local secular private school.

[Breeze54]

18. He's only six!

He probably won't even know or understand what's going on anyway...
(if you don't make a big stink in front of him.)
Neither will the other kids! But if you wait until he's older;
then he may become the 'target' of other parents and rumors!
I'd nip it in the bud NOW! Go to the School Board meeting!
Say your peace! Your request/opinion. All you are asking is for
prior notice, so that your son isn't exposed and can avoid the 'recruitment'.
The bullying and that sort of thing gets really bad in the upper grades.
3rd grade and up, imho. I'd take care of this now, if I were you!
Besides, he might not be the only kid experiencing this and they'll
be back next year too! Save another kid coming up behind your child! ;)

Have you called to talk to the BS leader to see what the program entails yet? Check 'em out?
Maybe it isn't as bad as you think, although I didn't sign any of my 3 sons up with the BS!

[MountainLaurel]

55. OT, but I see you're in Mo-town

Which, I suppose, decreases your chances of being an outcry against you and increases your chances of finding support. And if it does become a big deal, let us know. I'm a Mountaineer alum and grew up in Fairmont and know folks who could write letters to the editor and such.

:hi:

[Rabrrrrrr]

11. It hurts me to say it, but I think you are right.

And until the Boy Scouts follow all the rules that the government must follow in terms of not being prejudiced toward any religion or sexual lifestyle or what-have-you, the Boy Scouts should not be allowed on government property to recruit during government time with the government's approval.

Rabrrrrrr, former Boy Scout. I love the organization, and I know many people who are involved in it and whose lives are much better because of all the amazingly good things the Boy Scouts do, but I do think they should conform to government rules of inclusion or be banned from schools.

Good of you to raise the issue!

Sad thing is, I bet your son would have a wonderful time with the Boy Scouts, and learn a lot of valuable and good things... but probably only until someone found out he has two mommies. But it all depends on the troop - I know of some troops that don't talk religion or care about a kid's families or sexuality at all; some do.

[Ravenseye]

13. No you were in the right

I was also a scout growing up, and while I enjoyed it, from what I understand it's VERY different now. I'm also not christian and when I was in there was no real talk of God or anything like that, but it's changed from everything i've seen and read. It's become a far more radical christian organization.

I won't encourage my children join such groups that discriminate against anybody, or force religiousness on them. If they want to, I'll leave it up to them, but explain why I think they shouldn't, like you did. How do you explain that to a 6 year old though? Beats me. I'd be curious as to hearing what you had to say to him.

It's absolutely wrong that they did that without any parental permission. I'm not going to say that they shouldn't have been allowed to go to the school during school hours, but there should have been a permission slip or something from the parents, because lets be honest. Even if they hadn't showed up, kids his age were going to start being cub scouts anyway. They might be wearing their uniforms to school, talking about it, etc. Your son was going to find out one way or another and you'd still have to have the same talk either way.

Are there any alternative groups to scouting that are accepting? Perhaps you could think about starting a local group and do basically all the same things as scouts minus the discrimination and overt christianity? You could even get uniforms from the uniform shops and everything if you wanted. OTherwise you could just inquire to other parents and find other people who want to do scouts but...well not scouts...Inquire at a local Unitarian church maybe? Post stuff there? Maybe if you gave your son an alternative he could have fun and not care that he can't be in scouts?

[Lyric]

16. I hadn't thought of the Cub Scouts thing, but

I don't think it's the same.

Brendan was upset the most because these were adult men promising him and the other boys all sorts of camping, fishing, hiking, etc. He *trusts* adults. It was a big shock to him when I had to tell him that these adults wouldn't allow him to join, even if we were willing to allow it, just because he didn't go to church and had two Mommies. It was harder on him than it would have been if it had come from another child. Hearing it from adults made it seem more "real" and "official" I guess, which made the letdown all the more heartbreaking for him.

[Breeze54]

23. You might want to read this!

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18- 625/18-625.pdf

From:
http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=cp

http://www.scouting.org/

BTW... Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Lyric]

28. I read as far as the "Cub Scout Values"

part, and that was enough for me. That's definitely something I don't want my child involved with. :/

And thank you for the welcome! I've been a lurker for a long time, but only started posting regularly in recent weeks. :)

[Ravenseye]

35. if he's 6 they'd be recruiting him into cub scouts

1st 2nd and 3rd graders are cub scouts, 4th graders are webelos (stands for we'll be loyal scouts) and then in 5th grade or 6th grade they transition to full boy scouts and go from there. Cub scouts = boy scouts for younger kids.

You might want to look into Camp Fire USA

http://www.campfire.org
http://www.campfire.org/all_about_us/core_values.asp

"services to all children and families in America. We are inclusive, open to every person in the communities we serve, welcoming children, youth and adults regardless of race, religion, socioeconomic status, disability, sexual orientation or other aspect of diversity."

[noonwitch]

15. The school should have sent parents a note home beforehand

But Scouts have always recruited in school, Girl and Boy Scouts.

Are most of your son's friends joining up? If so, he's going to make your life difficult every week when his friends are at scout meetings and he's not a part of it. Find out who the local leader/den mother is and talk to him or her, first, to see whether that person has a religious or anti-gay agenda. Not everyone associated with Boy Scouts does. Scouting has some really good things to it, too, like camping experiences, learning to be a good neighbor and the whole idea of doing a good deed every day for someone else. I believe the last one is the primary value that they teach in both Boy and Girl Scouts.

One thing to note-the large meetings for Boy Scouts are totally family events, for parents and siblings of the scouts, too.

Sometimes you have to balance your convictions with your kid's need to fit in with his peers. He likely doesn't want to be labelled the kid with atheist lesbian parents, even though he loves and respects you. But face it, kids talk about what they hear their parents say about other kids' parents, and they can be cruel.

[Lyric]

21. The recruiting in school part wasn't my biggest complaint--

the lack of any notification or consent beforehand was my biggest problem.

This is only the second week of first grade, so he doesn't have many "close" school friends yet. His friends from our neighborhood and his same-age cousins are not involved in Scouting. But honestly, Scouting just doesn't seem to be the same as it was when we were growing up. I don't want him involved with any group whose "official" rules are discriminatory like that, even if the local group doesn't follow those rules.

Boy Scouts pay dues, right? I can't imagine allowing our money to be sent to the BSA in order to fund more discrimination across the country.

Someone else mentioned "Campfire Kids"--I think we'll look into that and see if there's a local chapter we can get him involved with. A quote from the Campfire USA website:

As the first nonsectarian, interracial organization for girls in the United States, Camp Fire USA takes pride in its long-standing commitment to providing fun programs and services to all children and families in America. We are inclusive, open to every person in the communities we serve, welcoming children, youth and adults regardless of race, religion, socioeconomic status, disability, sexual orientation or other aspect of diversity. Camp Fire USA's programs are designed and implemented to reduce sex-role, racial and cultural stereotypes and to foster positive intercultural relationships.

Camp Fire USA

[noonwitch]

24. Girl Scouts is a lot easier than Boy Scouts, for us liberals

I was a Bluebird in CFG when it was an all-girl organization. There was no religious component. It basically celebrated the outdoors, being a kid, and native americans. I still have my membership pin. I switched to Girl Scouts after finishing Bluebirds, because there wasn't a CFG troop in my neighborhood. I had heard that they were coed now. It's probably a good option, because then your kid will still get the outdoor camping opportunities that every kid needs.

Do they still sell that candy? It used to be better than Girl Scout cookies.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

29. My two older sisters were...

Blue Birds and Camp Fire Girls (back in the day) and it instilled in them a love of nature and sense of community. It was a positive exeprience for them.

[China_cat]

31. Here the announcements

of all outside 'club' recruiting go home in the orientation packet the first day of school along with the emergency contact sheets, etc. They tell you when and where Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Explorers, etc. will be for sign up and program information. AFTER the instruction day is finished.

[Taverner]

17. I agree - and they are a far cry from what they were when I was young

When I was a kid, we had an openly gay fellow scout. Mind you this was in the mid-80s, and we had all grown up with him so that was part of the acceptance too.

We never consulted Scouting by-laws or the Handbook either - we did serious camping and mountaineering so we consulted REAL guides.

But today they have become the youth wing of the GOP...

[MissB]

22. I have one small criticism.

I have a seven year old and an eight year old (both boys). They attend a small school, and a fair number of their friends have joined scouts. Because I'm an atheist and dh is an agnostic, we wouldn't consider Boy Scouts as an acceptable afterschool activity (not to mention they have two uncles who are gay).

So here is the criticism I have for you: six is a bit late to be told about a god by his peers. This is something you as a parent have the responsibility to introduce as a concept in your own terms. I worked with a woman once who was the same age as I am - she was raised by atheists, and for much of her young life, she'd never even heard of the story of Noah's Ark.

Now, I don't believe in Noah's Ark. Neither did she. But her point was that so much of the bible is intertwined in our culture that to not have some basic knowledge of it really does leave out a good portion of a person's education. She felt that she had a great deal of catching up to do in her teenage years when she finally figured out that her friends really believed these stories from the bible. To her they were myths, to her friends they were facts.

I'm not suggesting that you start taking your son to bible school, or bring a bible into your home. Consider picking up a book on creation stories. I used one with my kids that I just loved - it's In The Beginning: Creation Stories from Around the World by Virginia Hamilton. It contains 25 creation myths from different cultures. By exposing them to the multicultural creation stories, I hope that I've shown them that there are a variety of belief systems out there.

I've had many conversations with my children on what people around us believe - Christians, Jews, Muslims are all represented in our neighborhood. I've discussed the differences in the religions that their friends are growing up with, and we've talked about the question of how one religion can say they are the only way when the others say the exact thing.

Just a gentle suggestion - use this opportunity to introduce religion on your terms, so that your child is not confused when someone talks about their god.

[philosophie_en_rose]

32. I gently disagree.

As long as a child is nurtured to be kind, there is no reason why religious stories are necessary.

[Lyric]

33. I think that learning about religious history is valuable

to young people when they are old enough to understand it, but I'm not interested in exposing my 6-year old to religion. If he *asks* me about it, I am perfectly willing to explain it. But beyond that--I'll be waiting until he's preteen at least before discussing religion and faith with him for the sake of cultural reference.

In the meantime; if he hears something about "Noah's Ark" and doesn't understand it, he knows where to find me to ask me about it. :)

[Ravenseye]

37. Yeah but it's also about understanding cultural references

My daughter and son on the way will both be raised as agnostics, as I was, but I'm not going to hide them from things like this. By the time I was 6 I was very familiar with all sorts of bible stories. I was also familiar with Aesops fables and norse mythology etc. I had all the books together. I think you can learn from some of the stories good lessons, and others are just stories, but totally shielding I think could be dangerous. People will make refernce to things and I want my kids to understand the stories.

As the previous poster mentioned, to them they'll just be stories, and not facts. I had all these stories, and I think the fact that I was exposed to not just them, but ALL sorts of mythological stories, and knew they were mythological stories, I lumped them together and it made me a STRONGER agnostic. Now my brain views stories about noah's ark in the same light as Hercules cleaning out the stables. I don't believe either of them are true, but it's helpfull to be familiar with them and have them treated as what they are...stories.

Thats my opinion. Of course the cardinal rule of parenting is that they're your kids, you're responsible for their upbringing, do what you want with them, not what others want...Just think about it though.

As far as talking about 'god' or 'faith' yeah that's a later conversation, but getting those stories in there as just cultural reference could help him in the future by knowing what page everyone else is on.

[Lyric]

41. Thank you for your thoughts, but

I do respectfully disagree. As I mentioned before, if my son hears a reference that he doesn't understand, he's more than welcome to ask me about it. If he's old enough and curious enough to ask, then I believe he's old enough to have that information.

I see a significant difference between stories that nobody really believes are true, and stories that a vast chunk of our population believes are literally correct. It's hard to deny that having so many people believe in the literal truth of Noah's Ark or the Garden of Eden would give a child some very confusing thoughts and doubts.

[nosillies]

40. Maybe not "Christian" stories, per se, but missb has a great point

I was an English major in college, and briefly taught English. Throughout my studies and teachings, I saw students without a religious (I didn't say Christian, just religious) background struggle in surprising ways.

Like it or not, a large part of literature, and therefore the study of literature, is based around common archetypes and mythologies. Touching on these common themes that reverberate throughout all cultures and times are what often makes a work of literature be considered "great." For many, a knowledge of some religious beliefs (Jewish, Mormon, Native American beliefs, Paganism, whatever) gives them some background knowledge to relate to these stories and themes. For a student that has absolutely no schema for creation myths, or basic mythology, or anything like this, English classes past middle school can be very difficult. It could be akin to being placed in an advanced anatomy class with no knowledge of basic biology.

One does not have to be a Christian, or a believer of any type, to get this necessary background. I have my own religious beliefs, but was made to study the Bible, the Qur'an, the Book of Mormon, the Vedas, etc. as works of literature. The knowledge I received from those studies is the most invaluable I ever received, and studying them in no way damaged my own religious beliefs or psyche.

It might be very unimportant for some parents to have their children make good grades in English, but it is a challenge that might be considered.

[MissB]

44. You made my point far better than I did.

Thank you. :hi:

My point certainly wasn't to brainwash a child with a Christian viewpoint, and it seems that is how it is being taken by some. Shielding a child from all religion does not help them develop tools to positively deal with the various religious beliefs that they will encounter, especially once they hit school. My kids are really great at talking to me about what they don't understand, but I'm not oblivious to the fact that eventually they may stop asking me questions as they hit their teenage years. Starting those conversations at an early age seems like a better defense than telling them to come and ask as questions arise.

You touched on the basic knowledge with respect to school in a much better way than I did. :)

[xmas74]

51. Not only does a basic understanding of religion

help with literature classes but it could also help you win on Jeopardy.

(Think I'm kidding? I'm pretty good at useless trivia but I'd never go on the show because I'd lose in the religion categories.)

[MissB]

45. I'm not introducing them as moral lessons.

I'm introducing them to show my children that there are a variety of belief systems out there, and while Mom and Dad think that religion is useless, other people do not.

A multitude of creation stories can only reinforce what we believe/don't believe (depending on whether you're talking about dh or me). Rather than just hearing about how the Christian God created the earth in seven days, they've read about a whole bunch of non-Christian myths. What message do you think that sends, exactly? :)

[Jokerman]

46. "To her they were myths, to her friends they were facts"

I was raised without religion. In college I took a class on world religions and one on religious literature. I honestly feel that I had an advantage over many in the class because I approached the subject objectively. People who were raised to believe that their religion was fact and all the others were myths seemed less likely to make comparisons.

I see no harm in exposing a child to bible stories but I certainly don't see it as an important part of their education.

I must say though that if you want your child to know more about religion, comparing various creation stories along with possible scientific explanations is good way to start.

[philosophie_en_rose]

50. I had the same experience.

Studying religion without the compulsion to defend it is an advantage, in my opinion.

I don't believe creationism should be taught in schools. So, I wouldn't teach it to my own children.

[madinmaryland]

25. I am opposed to any group in a school that can advertise

to the children directly. I have no problem with literature being sent home to the parents, but that active recruitment directly to the children is wrong. As happened with your family, both the child and the parents have been put in a very awkward position.

In our school system here, they do have the boy scouts and girl scouts at the open house evening for the parents, but it allows the parents to avoid them if they so choose. I am glad that your vice-princ is taking this to the board, and it was the right thing to do (i.e. you contacting the school). Your partner is correct about banning the recruitment during school hours. It's elementary school, and there should be NO recruitment of any kind geared to the children.

[ileus]

26. And to think I used to live in WV

Woo Hoo I don't now!!!

Meeting with the buyers of my house this evening!

[Lyric]

30. Are you moving to Virginia?

We moved *away* from Virginia, because West Virginia is less repressive.

At the time we moved away from VA, there was a lesbian women named Sharon Bottoms who lost custody of her child because (at the time) "sodomy" was a felony, which made the mother a "habitual felon" and therefore an unfit parent. At least, according to that particular Virginia Circuit Court judge.

We moved away pretty fast. I heard that eventually that ruling was overturned by the VA Supreme Court, but after having lived there for 8+ years, I was sick of the pushy religious conservative culture of that state. West Virginia (at least in my part of the state) seems downright Liberal compared to living in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia.

[ThomCat]

27. Yeah! Awesome response!

:yourock:

[Guy Fawkes]

34. In defense of the Scouts...

Not all troop leaders are morons who blindly follow the (recently) religious doctrine of the (now) Mormon-run scouts. Many local level troops are run by open minded people who accept gays, lesbians, atheists, etc.

That said- if your son really wants to join the scouts, send a letter to the local troop and ask about their opinions toward gays/atheists. You may find that the local troop is pretty liberal.

Sure, not many people really use the camping and survival information they get in the scouts- but the program does (in theory) teach social responsibility (like not littering, caring about your community, etc).

As for calling the Principle... Well, since the larger BSA organization is run by the religious right (and lead by G.W.), I see nothing wrong with getting them out of the schools. Any organization that meets in public places and takes public money should conduct itself like a public organization- which the higher levels of the BSA do not.

[xmas74]

52. My brother runs his troop that way.

He's an athiest and when they get to anything remotely religious he just passes it up instead of focusing on it.

He's also waiting for a complaint from just one person to have his troop taken away.

[HEyHEY]

36. One thing...

"Our family in Atheist, and the Scouts require all members to profess a belief in God"

I was in scouts and that never happened to me.

[LostinVA]

38. That's how it is now n/t

[Lyric]

39. How long ago?

Things have changed in recent years.

Wikipedia article on the Boy Scouts controversies

[HEyHEY]

43. about 17 years ago

[LaraMN]

42. I think you did a very good thing.

You should have been given the opportunity to address the situation pre-emptively, absolutely.
This parenting thing can be a tough racket sometimes, can't it?
:hug:

[Jokerman]

47. Good for you!

Public schools should not be used as a recruiting grounds for any group that practices discrimination.

[LibertyLover]

48. SpiralScouts

You might want to check out SpiralScouts. They are a scouting alternative for children of minority faiths. I do understand that you are Atheists, so you would need to make sure that, if there were a group near you, its actions and activities were compatable with your philosophy, but it is a possible alternative. And most pagans that I know are definately supportive of gays and lesbians. You are right to be upset and concerned on your son's behalf. And I do think that the school system should have let you know the Boy Scouts were coming in and given you an opportunity to opt out on behalf of your son. I have to confess that I am unsure about prohibiting them, or other groups like the Girl Scouts, from soliciting for membership in schools. Back in the day when I was in elementary school (rocks were in beta and grass was still on the drawing board) the various scout groups sent home fliers announcing membership registration. It may even have taken place in school, but after-hours. But there was no overt recruiting that I remember. I will have to see what happens when my 4 year old daughter gets into public school. I don't know how it's handled here in Maryland. Good luck with your son. You are being a good parent.


http://www.spiralscouts.org/metadot/index.pl

[pdx_prog]

49. My son is in the scouts

and I am an assistant SM for his troop. The gay issue and the God issue is something that is never really discussed among the leaders or the boys. It has become a "don't ask, don't tell" kind of thing. We have to go through youth protection training to ensure that the boys are safe.

Being in Portland Oregon, pretty much all of us are liberals and have our own views surrounding these issues. I too was a scout in my youth and it is much different today than it was 30 years ago.

The scouts do not go around asking recruits if they are gay, or if they believe in some supreme being. I have seen no homo-phobia, or religous discrimination in my years being involved with them, only the concern and safety of the boys.

The boys are taught to be decent human beings. They are taught how to be a responsible person who takes responsibility for what happens to them instead of taking on the "victim" role by blaming everyone and everything else for what happens to them in life. The whole purpose of the scouts is to teach responsibility and leadership to boys. By the time they reach Eagle rank I would trust each and every one of them with my life.

We aren't allowed to recruit at the schools out here, so we rely purely on word of mouth. I wish things would change in the organization, and I do believe that in time they will. The scouting experience is a great thing that should be experienced by all boys.

[xmas74]

53. I would contact the local leader first before making the

decision not to get your son involved in the program. Tell the leader that about your family and your beliefs and find out if they have any problems with it. If not it might actually be a good idea to get involved with the program.

Boy Scouts was once a wonderful program that has been completely taken over by certain nasty factions. What needs to happen to the BS is that we need to have more families of minority faiths (or families w/ no religious beliefs at all) join the program. And they need to have more "alternative" families (I've heard of a few single mothers having a hard time in certain areas with BS but the main focus is on gay/lesbian families).

The best thing that can happen to the program is to have families of many different makeups and backgrounds join. The best way to make a change is on the local level and move up from there.

[dpbrown]

54. I was a Boy Scout, and I turned out okay

Beating up symbols with our children isn't always best. When used as cudgels then tend to dent.

[buddhamama]

56. good for you

i would have done the same. in my son's school the BS send sign-up sheets home but they are not allowed to enter the school until the school day is done. i wish his school wouldn't allow them to use the facilities for their meetings. my son had no interest in the Scouts, he was all to aware of their bigotry and discrimination.

[khashka]

57. I think you did right

You send your child to school for an education, not to be inducted into an organization that opposes your values. And you handled it responsibly by making your concerns known to the people who have the authority to handle it.

I second LibertyLover - there are alternatives. Obviously this something your son wants. So find those alternatives.

SpiralScouts is a good choice. GirlScouts is another good one (they've made it clear they don't make an issue of sexual orientation or religion and they accept boys).


Khash.