I FUCKING hate the public school system. I really, really do.

[Midlodemocrat]

Warning: Rant ahead. Big one.


So, my youngest, who is 10 tested for the stupid fucking gifted and talented program when she was in second grade. She elected to remain at her home school rather than go to the center based program, MOSTLY on the recommendation of the gifted coordinator who just proved herself to be a lying sack of shit.

Class rolls are posted yesterday: She is NOT in the gifted cluster as identified by the children who tested for the gifted program. I assume, erroneously it appears, that this is a simple mistake and email the teacher.

Nope. Not a mistake. She says there are three classes with gifted kids, (turns out there are four, but teacher is obviously a moran).

According to policy in this district, if a child is identified as gifted, they have to be in a class 'exclusive of the lowest academically performing students'. Not the case. By a longshot.

So, I get the roll and make some calls and also receive some calls. A lot of parents are very concerned about their children's placement, especially the ones who were mostly in the 'gifted cluster' last year.

I get a phone call this morning that the team wants to meet with us. So, up we go. Apparently, there are three classes with a 'couple of kids' and one with 'most of the kids', including the class that has the other child who tested when my child did. They were unfucking believably defensive and my daughter's teacher says to me: "You stirred up a lot of stuff by making phone calls". (Mind you, I only made three, but told them that I made more because I know these kids and know for a fact that 1/2 her classmates to be came from the lowest academic group last year) Me: Tough. I get to call anybody I want to, anytime I want to. Your information was wrong. I assumed this was a mistake. If you had emailed me or called me back, this could have all been avoided. Her: Well, maybe you should call all those people back. Me: You do it. It's your job, not mine.

I FUCKING HATE THIS. I hate being in a situation where I am having to say my kid is 'gifted'. I FUCKING HATE IT. The ONLY reason we even agreed to test her is because the middle school is so horrific, I don't want her to go there.

I FUCKING HATE THIS.

Anyway. How's your day going?

[underpants]

1. Okay take a deep breath and let's consider what is "gifted"in Chesterfield

:bounce:

Oh was that good or WHAT?

Seriously keep stirring.

[Midlodemocrat]

2. LOL. Yes, I have to give you that.

I FUCKING HATE THIS.

[matcom]

4. ....

:rofl:

remember, its Left at the Shoney's

[underpants]

9. Don't laugh

I actually know someone who lives left of the Shoneys

[Haole Girl]

3. Fight the battle!

My 3 sisters were all in the "gifted" program, and I wasn't (black sheep, I guess). Two of them make twice as much money as I do...the other one three times as much! Not, that money is everything...but it can certainly provide you a more comfortable life. I often wonder what I might have been able to do if only... Oh well, it didn't happen. Plus, it has given me quite a complex!

Good luck! This fight is worth fighting!! :hi:

[Midlodemocrat]

6. Her teacher also told me that

she thought it was 'sad that Elizabeth (my child) felt she was superior'.

Me: She is. And that's nothing to be ashamed of.

She tested higher than anyone in the school the year she tested and she was in FUCKING SECOND GRADE.

She is superior academically. And she deserves an education that will speak to that.

[Haole Girl]

7. In my experience, the "gifted" are basically the ones taught

*anything* in our public schools. I hate to scare you, but that's how I see it.

[politicat]

82. Reminder: Gifted eduation is Special education.

Your child should have an IEP (Individual Education Plan) and a classroom appropriate to her skills, needs and abilities. Were she blind, deaf, or in any other way different from the norm, special ed would be no big deal and you would have to fight for her, but you wouldn't have to put up with the condescending remarks and attitudes.

Ten is a delicate time - it is edging on to the point in time when a gifted child who is bored with school will come up with other (often less functional) ways to entertain and educate herself. If your child is frustrated and bored at school, she will find things to make her day more interesting, and that usually means becoming a discipline problem, especially when she figures out that she's smarter than her peers and teachers and can usually get away with shit.

Smart kids have a rough school life unless there are teachers who realize that their potential is something that cannot be wasted and can be bothered to do something about it. 85% of the kids that I saw in court-ordered therapy tested with IQs above 125 - and all of them agreed that the reason they started getting in trouble was because it was something more interesting than busy work and the bullshit that goes along with school, like teams and school spirit and the like. Take it from me: The only reason I didn't get caught and gobsmacked with irresponsible sex, petty criminality and recreational drug use is that I was smart enought to Not. Get. Caught and to indulge my boredom induced activities in such a way as to not risk my academic or familial standing.

Another reason to make sure that gifted kids are perpetually challenged is the level of critical training that comes with primary education. If a child learns to get on with what she's got to get on with, can complete her homework in an hour and not have to work, she will be in for a rude awakening when she hits real life where things aren't generally easy. I've seen a lot of gifted kids fail in college because a) they have the freedom to slack in ways they didn't have in the more structured world of high school, and b) they think they can skate through college like they always have before. This rarely turns out to be the case.

And if she feels she is superior, good on her. She's realized that her key talent lies in her flexible and articulate mind and that she should be putting her energies into educating herself and getting more out of her school day than several hours of baby-sitting. If the teacher thinks she needs to be "taken down a peg", get your daughter out of that teacher's hands. That is a teacher who can and will intentionally destroy the buds of a bright and capable mind because to do so fits within the teacher's worldview of children as insignificant and incompetent objects rather than individual human beings who have needs and emotions. The only thing worse for a gifted child than boredom is intentional destruction at the hands of an educator, and having had several of those types of teachers, I can tell you that the emotional and educational scars last far beyond the end of the school year.

[Kerrytravelers]

123. Yes!As a public school teacher, I advise you to demand an IEP immediatly.

If a parent demands an IEP, they must be seen. Period. I'd also advise you to find an educational advocate (I.e. educational lawyer) who will know the Education Code of your state backwards and forwards and get you what you need. Tell me your state and perhaps I can assist.

It is unfortunate that it has come to this. The District Office where I teach is constantly breaking laws. They twist my arms many times, so I tell parents in confidence to get an advocate. I always secretly inform the advocate that I am willing to do anything, but I am getting my arm twisted. It's a bit shady of me, but I won't be a willing participant for tearing apart a child's education and future.

Please, feel free to PM me at any time. I will be back at my computer tomorrow. I'll help in any way possible.

kt

[Midlodemocrat]

128. Thanks, KT, but under the county regulations here, only children

who are in special education are entitled to an IEP.

This system is one of the most fucked up I have ever seen, and as a child psychologist, I have seen plenty.

There are some good people here, but most of them are morans.

:hug:

[Kerrytravelers]

132. Gifted Education is special education. If it is outside of General Ed,

it's Special Ed. You most certainly can get yourself an Educational Advocate and begin pushing for your child's educational rights.

I worked in Special Education, with children who have processing disorders. It's been a while, so I can no longer quote CA Ed Code off the top of my head, but I know for a fact that Gifted is part of Special Ed.

[Redneck Socialist]

5. The school's all about protecting the school.

I worked for a while as a tutor in a public high school. I primarily worked with special ed kids and as a result I got to sit in on a lot of meetings between teachers, administrators and parents. Almost invariably, the school was all about covering its ass and the kid got lost in the shuffle. Granted there were those parents that were psycho nut jobs that were doing more harm to their kids than help but they were the minority.

In my experience most of the school's staff were good people trying to do a difficult job as best they could, but there was definitely an 'us against them' vibe when it came to dealing with parents.

[Midlodemocrat]

8. No kidding. I told one of the 'team' that she was incredibly defensive

I also said that the principal had told another parent that her child would be in the 'gifted' class and thus in a class different from my child's.

One of them snickered: 'A' parent. (As if I was making that up)

Me: Do you want me to name names? Because I will. I will tell you that the mom brought us dinner after his (pointing to my husband) surgery and sat in my kitchen and told me that 'Bernie said *** would have ***.

That shut her fucking pie hole up.


I HATE THIS!!!!!

[idgiehkt]

27. I'm so sorry you are going through this...

It sounds like these people are really, really sick. Is there anything you can do legally this time to change the situation? Sometimes it seems like that is the only thing that works...it does seem like these people have a grudge and it might be an ongoing thing for a while. I honestly thought Chesterfield schools were pretty good, my best friend's parent's moved to Chesterfield county just for their kids to change schools. I mean, compared to Powhatan, Goochland and Cumberland, Chesterfield is kind of a cultural mecca.

[Midlodemocrat]

38. Unfortunately, they all think their shit don't stink.

I am opposed to the whole 'labeling' thing to start with, but if you're going to do it, follow through with it.

I have a letter from the Principal stating that she would be placed in class with 'identified' students throughout her career at this school. So, fucking do your job you fucking fuckwit.

[idgiehkt]

50. right on.

It sounds like these people are just concentrated evil. It's a shame you can't hire a P.I. to get some dirt on them or something, lol.

[Whoa_Nelly]

103. You do have rights as a parent

And you do have the right to go above the school's administrative level, and the team manager level.

You can contact the district departments that are germaine to your child's case management.

Do you have a copy of your parental rights?

http://ericec.org/digests/e541.html

[Midlodemocrat]

106. Thank you for that. I do have that information, but I appreciate your

kindness in posting it for others.

[NC_Nurse]

67. So true.

Whether you're gifted or disabled, believe me, it's all CYA. I used to fume at my son's IEP meetings.
I don't even know why we had them - all they wanted was for me to sign the paper and get out. They did as little as possible and most of his teahcers didn't even SHOW UP!
The ones that didn't often wouldn't follow the plan. What a crock of sh*t.
I've had kids on both ends of the spectrum. It's hard either way.

[Midlodemocrat]

68. As do I and it isn't easy at all.

Today when we went to 'Meet the Teacher', my daughter was walking around the room looking at the name tags and I was kind of hurrying her up because we're getting the remnants of Ernesto.

She says "Mom, I want to see who is in my class"

Teacher stared at me with her jaw dropped. I guess she assumed that I ranted and raved to my child about the situation. :eyes:

I get so sick of these CYA assholes. Do the right thing the first time and you won't have to CYA.

[Redneck Socialist]

76. That was my experience exactly

I want to be clear though that the teachers I worked with weren't bad people, merely overworked and overwhelmed. They worked hard and seemed to sincerely care, but their class size was IMO excessive, and trying to juggle separate IEP's for several students and all the "normal" kids was overwhelming. So they sometime said fuck it and the IEP was conveniently forgotten about until a parent got on their case. Too often in that situation things got personal and then the child (who should have been the focus all along) got left on the wayside. It is a shitty situation for all involved and the kid is the one who looses the most.

[OzarkDem]

71. Been there

Our school had constant turnover in the counselors assigned to help kids w/ ADD. They had someone new every six months. The start of every school year was like beginning all over again - they always forgot my sons had ADD, and had them in the wrong classes.

And somehow, they always felt it was my fault. They kept telling me they weren't communicating because I gave them the wrong email address - I've had the same one for 15 years.

[swimboy]

10. You fucking ROCK!!!

You are a hero for taking on the system and giving them the direct and true answers they are not prepared to hear!

:loveya: :yourock: :hug:

:headbang:



How's my day? I'm watching a hurricane from my 5th floor office!

[Midlodemocrat]

11. Yeah, but at what cost?

I don't trust these fuckwits not to take it out on my child, but if they do, they better be prepared.

I hate this. I really, really hate this. Why couldn't they have just done their jobs in the first place.

Oh, and there is a hurricane here, too! What a coincidence!

:loveya:

[nosillies]

13. Take care, you, and swimboy, too

Blame it on the barometric pressure. It's worse than a full moon.

And for the millionth time: DON'T DRIVE THROUGH ANY BIG PUDDLES. They may be bigger than you think, or have fast-moving currents. Ad nauseum, etc.

[Broken_Hero]

12. sorry...

I hope things work out...:)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. So let me get this straight...

you're up set because the teachers put your precious gifted child in with the stupid kids her own age...

[swimboy]

15. I'm gonna hafta whip this out

:popcorn:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. lol

[billyskank]

17. Excuse me while I whip this out

[buddhamama]

18. perfect

:thumbsup: (my favorite Mel Brooks movie)

[swimboy]

20. Trust you!

I see you've got my, uh, erm, back!
:rofl:

[RevCheesehead]

19. Yeah?

I'm standing in the wings with this: :spank:

Pass me some of that popcorn, would ya?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

21. Damn fucking right she ought to be upset.

Especially if her daughter is tested, positively, gifted.

Why the hate for the gifted?

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Oh, I sympathize.

In fact, my Princess had to go to community college with those inbred mouthbreathers after those sons of bitches wouldn't let her into Harvard. This is even though she placed in the National Honor Roll and I paid a small fortune to have her picture in the yearbook.

[buddhamama]

25. lucky for me

i'm awfully hungry :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. lol

[Midlodemocrat]

31. 'Inbred mouthbreathers'.

Nice. Well, I guess we all know where you're coming from.

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Excuse me.

I should have said "lowest academically performing students."

[Midlodemocrat]

36. Their words, dude, not mine.

A letter from the Center for Gifted and Talented for our county had that EXACT line in it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Sure.

It's their line that you want them to abide by.

And I'm behind you 100%. There's no reason our kids should be in with the normies.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. Sure.

But I wasn't in the teaching business for the money.

[RevCheesehead]

40. why are you giving her such a hard time about this?

:shrug:

[Shakespeare]

56. I was wondering the same thing. n/t

[WritingIsMyReligion]

61. Why are you being so patronizing?

Do you think that all gifted children act this way, and come from families of this type? If you do, then you are ridiculously off-track.

It isn't at all wrong to ask for extra education for those who need it. In fact, in this world, we need intellectuals. There is nothing elitist about gifted education, as anyone who has ever dealt with it knows.

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

63. Now I can agree with that.

The world needs more intellectuals. It's hard being an intellectual with all these monkeyfucks, and fucking fuckwits, and assshits keeping us down.

[silverojo]

66. I was a gifted child

The public school system has NO idea how to handle gifted kids. That's why there's such a problem with "A-student dropouts". And yes, I was one of them...I felt high school was holding me back, and it was.

Everything I needed to know, I learned outside of school: I was reading, writing, and doing basic math at the age of 3. The teachers were such idiots, that I spent my childhood/adolescence at the library to study the material in my textbooks, because the teachers were too stupid to understand it, let alone teach it.

Case in point: One idiot nun/teacher at my Catholic school claimed that "New South Wales" was in Great Britain. Now, I had a penpal in New South Wales, which is an AUSTRALIAN STATE!



I pointed this out to her, and she kept telling me I was wrong. The next day, when she got to the material that specified that NSW was in Australia (duh!), she acted as if she'd known all along, and hadn't made a complete ass of herself before the whole class.

Is it any wonder we all called her "Cro-Mag"? (Well, that and the fact that she LOOKED Cro-Magnon, LOL!)

Since being free from school, I've learned foreign languages, computer skills (and now I'm studying Linux), American history (which we were NEVER taught in school), and a lot more.

Just a suggestion: Could you have your child independently tested, to prove to these idiots that their results were flawed?

[Momgonepostal]

23. She has every right to be upset

The public school system is supposed to provide an appropriate eduation for each child. That means a gifted class for the gifted kids, extra help for the kids who are lagging, large print materials for kids who have non-correctable vision problems, etc. The school HAS a gifted program, so I don't get exactly what their problem is here.

Going to the mat for our kids is just part of a parent's job.

[Midlodemocrat]

29. You couldn't be more wrong.

And if you're going to be a jerk about it, how about disappearing from this thread?

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[last_texas_dem]

24. Sometimes these policies are out of the control of the school itself

I'm definitely not trying to say your anger at the situation isn't justified. The fact that the policy was understood to be one way and then the powers-that-be backtracked or whatever, etc. certainly gives you every reason to be upset.

But I guess I just wanted to bring something up maybe 'cause I feel a bit (irrationally, perhaps) defensive, being the child of a public school principal, the child of a former public school teacher, the brother of a public school librarian/formerly public school teacher, and the brother-in-law of a public school teacher. Often these kinds of decisions aren't up to the school itself. My dad has to deal with this shit all the time. If the policy had been to have a separate "Gifted/Talented" class, but the educational trends go the other way, to mixing the kids all in together, schools may change their policies whether the employees agree with these decisions or not. Sometimes it's school board members getting involved, sometimes it's state mandates, sometimes it's federal mandates like NCLB. And on the issue of G/T, those trends have changed quite a bit in the last couple of decades. In the eighties, separating the G/T's out was common, but there was a trend towards blending them all together again in the nineties, which seems to have calmed down a bit again. My point is, these sorts of changes in policy can be annoying, but they are usually totally out of control of the teachers and, often, the administration as well.

[Midlodemocrat]

28. Actually no. The policy here is set by the county and the administrators

have the option to kind of schedule things as they see fit.

Essentially, they played fast and loose with the wording. My kid isn't the only one affected; I'm just the only one with enough guts to question them.

[Ravenseye]

30. I feel for you

I went through something similar when I was a kid. We moved to a new district and my parents inquired about putting me in the gifted program. The school I was coming from was a gifted only school, and they had a number of test scores. The new school district didn't care. They needed to test me themselves. My parents set up a day for me to go in during the summer and test, so I could be in the program immediately that fall when I started the school. I went in and took the test. They said they'd be in touch. A few weeks later school was approaching and my parents called and called. Nobody could be found to talk about the test. The person who had given the test was on vacation, the results weren't back, nobody had heard of me, etc.

Finally school started and my parents came in with me only to find out that nobody had record of the test ever being taken. Since the school year had started they had a policy that I couldn't join the gifted program till the following year. Over the course of the year we arranged to have another IQ test taken. Again I took it, this time the librarian watched over me in the library as I took the pencil and paper test. Weeks went by and more calls. Finally they told my parents that they thought I had cheated on the test because of the score. My parents threw a fit and demanded another test to prove my score. So I had a special test done in person by the school psychologist. I scored even higher. The following year I was admitted to the gifted program.

The funny part was the gifted program there sucked. I'd been in a number of them and this one was a joke. All that for practically nothing.

Anyway stand up for your daughter, and if they don't give in, just supplement her education on the side and keep pushing.

[Midlodemocrat]

35. My whole issue is...why test them in the first place if you aren't

going to place them according to ability? I didn't want her tested. Her teachers kept saying she was 'off the charts'. Okay, so be it. She elected to remain at her home school with her friends. Fine by me.

So, why, exclude her now? Her teacher actually told me that she feels sorry that Elizabeth considers herself superior. My response: She is. And if you people wouldn't have pushed this ridiculous program, she wouldn't have a clue about her ability. WE don't talk about it because our son has learning issues and we don't want to make him feel badly. We don't walk around crowing about how 'superior' she is.

I do walk around crowing about how cute she is and how she's my baby, but that's another thread.

[Ravenseye]

42. heh

you made me smile with the crowing about how cute she is.

I'm the same way with my daughter. We're intentionally not talking to her about how smart she is, but it's hard to not tell her how cute she is...

I understand your point. Especially at that age, kids should be shielded from the results of those tests. My story happenend before and during 9th grade. Prior to that I had no idea what my IQ was, but it was obvious to me before that, that I was different.

Sounds like a really messed up situation.

[Midlodemocrat]

46. And complicating things...one of the mothers was talking at the

pool this summer about how she was told in June that '***(the Principal) told me that ***(her son) would be in ***(teacher's name)' class because that was the gifted class.

And, that's exactly where he wound up. And, my daughter was at the pool with me.

This mom also reiterated the point sitting in my kitchen- well within earshot of my daughter.

[politicat]

83. As an intellectual female in a very appearance based society....

My parents' crowing about my appearance was the last thing I wanted or needed as a child. It just made me feel undervalued because they never mentioned my mind and my abilities to me. I'd get compliments when I dressed in their vision of appropriate clothing, but I'd rarely get praise for my academic work, and usually criticism if I didn't bring home perfect paperwork.

Had I a child, I'd try to praise for academic excellence (and in the case of having differently abled children, praise appropriate achievements across the board). But appearance? Cute is the last thing a kid needs to have reinforced.

[Ravenseye]

122. Relax

My daughter isn't even 2. She has no academic activities to praise, other than the fact that she's 22 1/2 months old and knows all her letters, can read basic words, and has a vocabulary beyond counting. Believe me. She's gonna get praise and criticsm for academic excellence. I know she's smart, so I expect great grades from her in the future and I'm gonna let her know that.

What i'm talking about wasn't 'praise' but was things like talking about their children in front of them to other people about how "oh Bobby is so smart, you're a genius aren't you Bobby. He's just so smart." While this 13 year old kid stands there and he really truly believes he's better and smarter than everyone else. That's the kind of shit we're planning on avoiding. That's a very different thing from "I know you're bright, so I expect you to work hard and get good grades." or some such.

[politicat]

126. I'm not attacking, by any means...

Just start early. Being a girl in this society is hard enough; being a smart one is terribly difficult.

I have faith in you... just sharing my parents' questionable methods and hoping to help others avoid the same trap they fell into with me.

She sounds brilliant. Good luck with her; it's tough being a parent of a gifted child, and one who reads early can be really tough!

[Midlodemocrat]

131. I think the tide might be turning, politicat.

My eldest is also gifted. (by their standards anyway, I can't get her to remember her chores)

She takes pride in her ability and her performance and isn't the least bit cowed in her advanced math or science classes.

I would LOVE to take credit for this, but I can't. Her girlfriends who are grouped with her feel and act the same way.

Maybe finally, the word is out that gender doesn't matter in education and we can start doing right by all the children we teach.

[politicat]

133. I HOPE SO.

I'm only 30, but I grew up in two of the most misogynistic cultures current in the US - military bases and Mormon. It was an uphill battle to get a decent education every single day, and this is well into the era of Title IX and the feminist movement. Some areas of the country and some social communities within it have just not really gotten the memo yet. Even into the 90s, it was tough to not be dismissed by senior officials (including my father) on base, nor in my larger, outer community in Northern Arizona.

[politicat]

84. You know, not talking about your daughter's ability is not doing your

son any favors.

He will grow up knowing that something is not being talked about and that will have effects at least as dangerous and damaging as being untactful and comparing your children to each other.

As long as they are both being praised for their key talents, it doesn't matter if those talents differ. If he were blind, would you fail to talk about his sister's sight? It may take some difficult conversations that start out with "I love you and you are very precious to me just as you are" and ranging over the set of points that include that different people have different abilities and talents and that each talent should be honed as perfectly as possible and then returning to the main point that he is loved and precious.

Avoiding discussion doesn't make for the absence of the fact; it just conceals it and causes more damage in the end. (Look at Nixon....)

[noonwitch]

32. "Gifted Children"

Whereas I don't have a problem with offering challenges specific to gifted students, I also have a problem with segregating them from all classes with those "lowest academically performing students". I know you don't mean to say that your kid should never socialize or see kids in that group, you just want both your kid and those kids to get the type of educational attention both groups need.


We had a situation in Detroit recently at a school for the gifted, Renaissance High School, which is a public school. This program shares a building with kids who are special education students, developmentally delayed kids of high school age. The parents of the "gifted" children threw a fit that their kids would be in the same building as the kids who have learning problems. They didn't share classes, just a building.

So the school compromised and segregated the students. They build a separate entrance for the disabled kids, and the groups do not socialize or eat lunch with each other. In my opinion, this is sickening. It is socially beneficial to both groups (mind you, the gifted children are not behavior problem kids, or they wouldn't be at that school). It is good for the gifted children to spend time with the disabled ones, and it is very good for the disabled children to socialize with the gifted kids. Lunch time would be a good time for that.

I know your situation is different, but why do these parents think that their precious "gifted" children are entitled to never see those who are handicapped? Who the f%*$ do they think they are?

I'm sensitive about this because I have relatives who are handicapped and were mainstreamed in high school. I also work with kids of all levels and I hate to see a situation in which kids are encouraged to reject those who are not at the same educational level as others.

[Midlodemocrat]

41. Actually, the kids who are identified in this county are the ones

who the disabled kids mainstream with, so it is a totally different issue.

My issue is, either you are going to abide by the rules you have set forth, or you aren't. If you aren't going to segregate them based on the criteria you have set forth, don't test them in the first place.

[Xithras]

62. The segregation benefits both groups

My daughter was in GATE exclusive classes throughout elementary school, but was placed in regular classes for her first semester of middle school in 6th grade. The results were negative for both her AND her classmates. She always had the answer to every question the teacher asked (she read the textbook twice the first week of the semester), she never missed a SINGLE question on a SINGLE test given the entire semester, and she always got perfect scores on all of her assignments. Her classmates resented and teased her because she made them look bad, she took up class time as she constantly engaged the teachers to go into specific details about things they were studying...even when many others were still struggling with the basics, and eventually her teacher had to start excluding her from the class bell curve because she was blowing it so badly that "A" papers in other semesters were barely getting C's, and many students were taking F's when they would have previously squeaked by with a D or low C.

As for my daughter, she was bored out of her mind. She kept complaining every day about how they spent so much time on simple subjects that she wasn't learning ANYTHING. At the end of that semester, they had finally caught up to the point where she had been academically an entire year previously. It was a waste of academic time for her.

The next semester, and every semester since, she has been in AEO (Advanced Educational Opportunity) classes across the board. She's enjoying school again, and the classes are proceeding at a pace she can handle. The kids in her classes the previous semester, I'm sure, were fairly happy to see her go.

There is nothing elitist about GATE and AEO type classes. Kids aren't all the same, and they learn with varying degrees of success and at varying rates. Some kids, on both ends of the spectrum, simply don't fit into mainstream classes and need to be educated in ways that best fit their learning styles. I doubt that anyone here would support the eradication of special class programs for remedial learners, so it suprises me that there are liberals who oppose the funding of special classes for kids on the opposite end of the spectrum.

By the way, my daughters elementary school had an interesting policy. Kids were tested for academic achievement and they could be recommended for the GATE program, but it was actually open to any kid who's parent requested it. It never failed that, at the beginning of every school year, there would be a rush of parents who were sure that the test were wrong and that their little Johhny or Jill was some kind of undiscovered genius. They would sign their kids up for GATE, spend the next three weeks whining about how little class time was spent on "review", complain mercilessly about the volume of homework the kids got every night (minimum two hours worth), and finally withdraw their kids and put them into regular classrooms. It was an interesting method that shot down charges of discriminatory enrollment policies, while still maintaining the high levels of academic achievement that most of the longtime GATE parents expected.

[KamaAina]

79. It's not so much that the parents of the gifted think that way

why do these parents think that their precious "gifted" children are entitled to never see those who are handicapped? Who the f%*$ do they think they are?

it's that nearly everybody feels they're entitled to never see people with disabilities. For instance, agencies wishing to establish group homes frequently face kamikaze opposition from their prospective neighbors. And how many times have you heard knuckle-draggers moaning about blue-zone accessible parking? "They can't drive, anyway, can they?" :dunce: :grr:

Parents of gifted students are neither more nor less aware of disability issues than the public at large, that is to say, if ignorance truly were bliss, they'd be ecstatic. :eyes:

edit: spelling

[philosophie_en_rose]

99. Social Segregation is wrong; but academic needs may differ.

There are many gifted students that also have disabilities, so I don't think physical segregation is very feasible - let alone desirable. I certainly can't see how being around other students would be detrimental. To the contrary, I kind of think it would be good. Gifted students are often ostracized, too. I think your situation could be a nice, supportive place.

But students deserve a program that fulfills their academic needs. For instance, it just wouldn't be right to put a freshman and a senior (writing at a freshman and senior level respectively) in the same writing class. The freshman deserves to start at their level. The senior deserves to keep learning, without having to backtrack. Therefore, I don't really see the problem of different academic programs.

But again, segregation for segregation's sake is ridiculous.

[redqueen]

34. Whooo boy... better than yours, at least today.

Geeez... now I wanna check the class my 3rd grader is in this year. She's 'gifted' too. What a circus.

I had to deal with her kindergarten teacher being like that when another student choked my daughter there. I gently approached her about my daughters fears about returning to class after the incident, and the so-and-so had the audacity to aggressively tell me not to make a big deal out of it as she turned her back on me. :wtf:

Home schooling would be such a great option, but my kids love the social aspect.

Whattayagonnado?

Okay now I guess I should read the thread and find out more about your situation from your other posts. Didn't want to ask you any questions you'd already covered... :)

[Midlodemocrat]

44. My issue is... in a nutshell.

That I have a letter from the county as well as from the Principal stating the criteria for her placement from 2nd grade on. They aren't abiding by it.

I don't care if you don't abide by it if you initially indicate that you aren't going to. If you set forth criteria for my keeping her at her home school, (which by the way, they are dying for you to do because it boosts their SOL scores), then don't change the rules midstream. But, when you test a child and her teacher last year repeatedly hammers home the concept that she is in the 'gifted cluster' and therefore more is expected from her, what is she to think?

[Jamastiene]

43. Keep up the fight.

You remind me of how my aunt was about me. I had all A's in the tenth grade and they were going to fail me because I missed too many days due to illness. She raised hell and pointed out that the football players barely spend half the time in classes in high school here, yet they all passed by a social promotion.

She also went head to head with my 12th grade english teacher when that teacher complained that I read too many horror/Stephen King books and that I wore too many black t-shirts. My aunt pointed out that she knew all my homework from her class that year had been Poe/Shakespeare/etc. with themes of murder, teen suicide, and other horrific shit. She even used the english text book to point out examples.

She also pointed out that back then most tour shirts for rock bands were black and that I enjoyed going to concerts. Needless to say, I passed tenth grade and the english teacher finally laid off me in the 12th grade.

[buddhamama]

47. my son tested gifted in the second grade

it was recommended to me at the time that he be advanced two grades. i, of course, discussed it with him and he decided for himself No Way! That was the end of it. He did however, end up taking language, reading and writing classes with a higher class. I have had problems keeping him from getting bored with school. unfortunately, not every teacher is experienced to deal with gifted children.
my son was lucky that his second grade teacher had a Master's degree in gifted and talented education, and she helped me and him quite a bit.

best of luck to you and your daughter. do not let them get to you. it's your child and you must be their advocate.

[Midlodemocrat]

49. And that's it in a nutshell.

This school has been shrouded in secrecy since its inception. Everyone gets SO defensive when you are advocating for your child. One of my best friends has a little one with Down Syndrome and you would think her simple requests for compliance with the child's IEP were causing back breaking work.

It's their job. And, as I told my daughter's teacher. I can talk to anyone I want about anything I want anytime. If you are upset about that, what are you hiding? Why don't you want parents to communicate?

Secrecy. Secrecy. Everybody up there is absolutely shit assed scared of their own shadow.

[miss_american_pie]

48. Good for you

:hug:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

51. I'm sorry, Midlo...

I've been through the push and pull of the school system around here, and I know that it isn't pretty. :hug:

[LaraMN]

52. Oh, UGH, Midlo!

Criminies!

I got jerked around from first through third grade alot, with the G/T program. They put me in first grade, then moved me to a "split class" part way through the year, then they cancelled the split class, I got moved back to first grade, and for the next two years, they didn't seem to know what to do with me.
And now I'm insane.
See what happens?

:scared: :P
:hug:

[RebelOne]

53. Please don't hate the school system.

My daughter has just started teaching English in middle school and she has been given all the misfits. And from what she says, it is not an easy job to make these kids even learn how to read and write.

[Midlodemocrat]

54. Been there.

Taught high school for 10 years. Had the gamut of the advanced AP kids to the ninth graders who didn't know how to write. Seriously. And I don't mean, write in the expressive sense, I mean they couldn't fully form letters.

And, I had the the last period of the day. It was an incredible challenge some times.

Good luck to your daughter. I loved teaching. I only got out of it because I was sick of being poor.

[nosillies]

58. Ain't that the truth

I found I could parlay teaching high schoolers into training in corporate environments. Corporate training was certainly more annoying, but guess which one paid better?

[RebelOne]

65. My daughter gave up a good job at a college

after she got her bachelors degree because she wanted to teach and despite the problem students, she is enjoying it. But she said that she is beat at the end of day and then she has to grade papers. She also has a husband, 2 daughters, 4 dogs and 2 cats, so she has no time for a life of her own.

[MiniMandaRuth]

55. I hate it, too.

We have four period days in highschool, and we have to take PE one year or else we can't graduate. Which means to a dedicated bandgeek like me, I can't take band one year.

It sucks. I hate our school.

[nosillies]

57. Can you get PE credit extracurricularly?

A school district where I worked had a similar policy. However, many students got their PE credit by participating in organized sports away from school. They were in local rock climbing clubs, one was a figure skater, they did downhill skiing at a local resort, etc.

This might be something to look into. And if it's not offered, be a good activist and push for it! There are plenty of precedents out there -- I know lots of schools do this.

[politicat]

85. Work with the band, band parents and teacher to get Marching band

PE certified. You'll probably have to go to the school board a few times, and it will be a lot of work, but it really is worth it for musically inclined students.

That was the best workout I ever had (I played tenor sax during marching season, bass clarinet during concert season and I'm 5'2", so those were not insignificant weights to be carrying around!) and was far more physically challenging than running around the 2 mile track and doing calisthenics and playing arcane games with balls....

My high school had certified Marching Band as a PE course, in part because it was a huge school with a massive band and a dearth of PE classes and equipment. We also had sports PE, for those on the teams, so they wouldn't miss anything important in the last hour of the day when they often had to go to meets and such. But we were in better shape than most of the kids in the standard PE class, and if I could find a marching band for grownups (there's touch football, softball, basketball and such at the community level, but not drill... why is that???) I would ditch my thrice-weekly ordeal with the weights and treadmills and be a happy camper.

I will admit that I had a Zero hour class for marching band plus an hour of "Band for music", a month of summer band camp (in Yuma, AZ, where summers hit 125 with disgusting regularity), and we didn't get the PE credit until after the fall semester of our sophomore year because marching season ends in December, so anyone who dropped band after Freshman year had to take a regular or sports PE class, but I was perfectly pleased to not have to waste an hour doing something relatively useless (because really, lifting weights and taking dull walks around a track isn't useful) in years that were already far too busy.

[BreweryYardRat]

59. School system bureaucrats are like this a lot.

One of the few good things my mom ever did for me was fight the monkeyfucks at the school board (and one local school) over 'gifted' issues.

And they will take it out on your kid. Bet on it.

[greatauntoftriplets]

60. Midlo, tell us how you REALLY feel...

;)

Seriously, you have every right to be pissed and I think you handled things extremely well.

[hedgehog]

64. Everyone reading this thread should keep in mind that

school districts vary wildly state to state and even within states. One district's gifted program is really just an accelerated curriculum while another's may focus on artistic talents. My kids skipped the gifted program here and are doing better now than the kids who spent grammar school frittering around with "gifted" projects. On the other hand, in some districts the gifted program is the equivalent to another district's main stream program. It's vital to get your child into the gifted track just to obtain a basic education! In some districts, parents send their kids to the public schools as a matter of course. In others, parents who can afford it automatically send their kids to a private school. Ironically, it's this lack of a common standard that's behind the "No Child Left Behind" program. It's too bad that the program is headed in exactly the wrong direction. Millions of dollars are being spent, middle class parents are in a frenzy of anxiety over their children's scores but has a single school actually improved?

[Critters2]

69. What's behind NCLB

is the right wing's hope to destroy public education altogether.

[OzarkDem]

70. Many teachers and administrators are control freaks

The complain when parents aren't involved, they complain when they are. In our well off suburban school district, many have really bad attitudes and are grossly incompetent. I'm not sure if its a battle between teachers & administrators, but I'm sick of it.

They do love to host Bush and Taft every time they roll into town, though. They let them use the schools gratis for rallies & events, then are clueless when the state keeps sending them less money every year.

My kids were gifted also, but they got hung up on the ADD label. Both got D's and F's in high school, but the oldest one is now pulling a 4.0 average in college and the younger one is finally enrolled in half a day of college level computer programming.

The education profession, teaching and administration, is in terrible shape. I blame the teaching colleges.

[hotforteacher]

72. Yeesh...I hate hearing this shit.

Ya know, I have dedicated my life to the public education system because I believe in the founding principles behind a public education.

When I was in kindergarten back in the 70's, I was identified as "gifted and talented". What I find amusing is that I did not find out about that until I was in a guidance counselor's office in 1991 getting ready for college admissions. Whilst the counselor was babbling on about how he didn't think that I was "four-year-college material" and should try the tech college route, I was perusing my transcripts and asked him about something that was flagged. He said, "Oh, yeah...I guess you were gifted and talented." I was floored. No one had done anything about it and I died of terminal ennui during my freshman year of high school and my grades plummeted as a result. Apparently, everyone but me knew this.

Now, everything said and done, and by my own sheer fucking bullheadedness, I made it through my bachelors degree. Then I excelled and graduated with a stunning GPA in my masters program. I am currently planning my entrance into the wild world of Ph.D (piled higher and deeper).

That you school system ganked you around like this, Midlodemocrat, is asinine, but the problems are a constellation and it makes sense. We are in the most volatile period of American education with the inception of NCLB and every administrator and faculty member is on pins and needles resultantly. I am certainly not excusing the behavior of my cohorts in your city, but it makes sense. When prioritizing (in a triage sense) issues in a school, oftentimes GAT (gifted and talented) kids will lay by the wayside because they are "smart enough to take care of themselves".

It is my firm belief that most children can excel if given the proper environment (see, I got pissed off enough to join the system to change it from within). Academic rigor SHOULD be in every classroom. I teach all levels of children in my classroom (from illiterate to college level GAT) and I give them all the high, hard one...so to say. :) Unfortunately, I still have to teach to "the test" and try to fly under the radar when I do something controversial, but know that it is good for my kids. It's the price I am willing to pay so that they know someone on this end is looking out for them.

That teacher you spoke to owes you an apology. Even under duress, shitty wages, unsporting academic environments, and utter chaos you are the parent of their student and are owed respect. Titles are bullshit, and I am glad that you acknowledge that...keep fostering a really inquisitive homelife. Your child will know down the line that you advocated for them. They might even appreciate it some day. :hug:

[Rabrrrrrr]

73. Even though I'm not a fundie who wants my kids to grow up fucking dumb,

every year I am more and more of the sense that if I had kids I would homeschool them, to ensure that they actually got an education and learned to think and didn't have to put up with all the bullshit of clueless ignorant assholes running schools, and all the bullshit of "Sports are so very important! If you don't do sports you suck! Anything that isn't sports isn't worth funding! You like to read? You're fucking weird - I bet you can't throw a football!"

:puke:

Of course, the biggest problem with public schools is that the republicans have systematically made them impossible to function, in order to force their fundy friends into homeschooling thus causing more destruction of the public school system, so that their corporate owned "private religious" "schools" can get federal funding from vouchers.

if we can get the republicans away from the public education movement, it will work again.

[idgiehkt]

78. amen

"Of course, the biggest problem with public schools is that the republicans have systematically made them impossible to function, in order to force their fundy friends into homeschooling thus causing more destruction of the public school system, so that their corporate owned "private religious" "schools" can get federal funding from vouchers.

if we can get the republicans away from the public education movement, it will work again."

I think it's just the think about them supposedly being federal gov't haters, except when it comes to the military killing children overseas.

[Midlodemocrat]

87. Spot on.

The 'shroud of secrecy' surrounding public schools is ridiculous. If you 'question' something, you are a troublemaker.

I defy you to find another public entity where you can't 'question' the top gun. The stock market would crucify them.

[brentspeak]

92. It depends on the school district

I grew up in a high-achieving, middle/upper-middle class suburban town, which had a nationally-ranked school system (although I personally didn't see what was so special about it). From what I hear, the new families who now live in the town are richer than the ones previous, and pressure teachers all the time with "My son/daughter got a 'B' on her test. If he/she doesn't get into an Ivy League school, we'll be seeing you in court!" type of thing. In that setting, the administration makes sure it does everything it can to accomodate the parents and their concerns/requests/etc.

[Midlodemocrat]

96. You are absolutely correct.

This 'team' of people yesterday tried to make us feel as though we were raising a 'superior' child and that was 'sad'.

My husband, who is a remarkably gifted orator shut them up instantly. He said that this school and its competitions like Math Hall of Fame and Which class raises the most money and which class does more and blah, blah, blah created a competitive environment and now blaming the parents for it was outrageous.

They didn't know how to respond to that.

Aside: We had a light box 'crawl' in the cafeteria for a while that listed who got into the 'Math Hall of Fame' :eyes: Sort of like a reverse spelling bee, because it was entirely possible for a single child (like my son) never to get in.

I, along with some other parents, demanded that they take it down because of the stress it was causing. Kids were actually crying the night before taking this ridiculous test because they were so worried. 6 year olds!!!

I was PTA President at the time. I told the Principal that it either came down, or I would sit there all day unplugging it every time someone plugged it in, thus necessitating reprogramming each time.

They took it down. They were pissed about it, but they did it.

[MissB]

75. In our state, being TAG'd means that they

are part of special education, which entitles them to an IEP each year. Some parents at the school hold the admins' feet to the fire and insist on a meeting between the parent, principal and teacher before the start of school. After all, that is what the law allows. They also insist that the school revisit the IEP during the year to make sure it has been tweaked where appropriate.

You could try that route, if your kid is entitled to an IEP.

[NewJeffCT]

77. Weren't you trying to sell me on the Chesterfield schools a while back?

Like 18 months or so ago? ;-)

[Midlodemocrat]

88. You would have been in a different district with a far less

assholish principal.

Notice I didn't try to make you my immediate neighbor? I wouldn't do that to you.

I am counting the days until we are done with that school. And, sadly, I ran into a bunch of my friends over the summer who are done and they are thrilled to be done. Doesn't that speak volumes?

[NewJeffCT]

89. principals

Aren't school principals usually Republican, while the rank & file teachers are Democrats?

[last_texas_dem]

90. Perhaps, but...

I think that tends to be the case in many occupations, where the workers may be Democrats but their bosses are often Republicans. It's an issue of income more than anything else. I've never seen stats on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar scenario for teachers vs. administration. What's scary is the number of teachers in my area who are Republicans; there's just something sad about an educator who votes for the party that hates education and the educated.

(And, while this is just an anecdote, I will say my father, who is a principal, is a devoted Democrat. He has his Kerry sticker on his car and said he won't be taking it off until Shrub is out of there!)

[Midlodemocrat]

94. Unfortunately, not at this school.

They are mainly all rethugs with a few exceptions.

You know how it is, get a couple of nickels to rub together and vote Republican.

[BlueIris]

80. Woah. I understand your outrage, but...

the anger in this post is off the charts. And that's coming from me, mind you. I'm not moralizing, just concerned for your health. I'm worried you're going to stroke out or something. I agree with those who say, "Breathe."

[Midlodemocrat]

95. BI - LOL.

That's why I love the lounge. Venting to anonymous folks via the internet prevents me from saying something I will regret IRL.

It's been difficult here working with this administration. They are so secretive about everything which is ridiculous. Just tell people what to expect and people will relax and the angst will be gone.

[philosophie_en_rose]

81. Gifted Students fall under Special Education Laws.

They are entitled to special services. Don't let the bullies beat you down. You're doing the right thing for your kid.

[MichiganVote]

86. Your information is wrong. Special education is for students with

identified disabilities that interfere with academic progress. Testing that reveals high ability will not qualify a student for special education services.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

93. Gifted education, at least in Maine, most definitely does qualify as

special education, and schools are required by Maine state law to do something about it.

[MichiganVote]

108. They may qualify for a program to assist them but it will not

be the IDEA program for special education services.

[Midlodemocrat]

111. But some localities use the guidelines for

FAPE in setting up their programs for the disabled as well as the gifted.

You'll love this story. One of my friends has a child who is profoundly physically disabled. He really only has the use of one hand with any consistency and utilizes a powered wheelchair almost exclusively for mobility.

His aide was, get this, TURNING OFF HIS POWER to punish him!!!! The ridiculously angry assistant principal got in my friend's face because of course she was beside herself she was so upset and said that 'I can turn his power off any time I want to'.

So, of course, she contacted the good people who wrote the ADA and a federal investigation is still ongoing.

Can you imagine the ignorance? Can you imagine turning off a child's power to his only means of locomotion?

She said to this moran of an assistant principal. "so, in case there is an emergency or a fire, I have to trust that you will get my child out"

Moran: "That's your problem".

At this point in the investigation, we believe that the county hasn't let him go because they are still trying to deny culpability and of course by firing him as he so richly deserves they would be admitting what he did.

[MichiganVote]

114. FAPE is available for all public school students. FAPE is not the basis

of special education law however it is like its twin. IDEA, Individual Disabilites Education Act is soley responsible for both procedures for identifying students with disabilities and providing programming for them. A 504 Plan is a similar plan but it too requires that a disability be present in order to provide specialized services or accomodations.

As to the wheelchair business, yes I can imagine a time when I would turn the chair off but only if the kid's safety or some other kid's safety was at stake for some reason. The physically disabled kids I have worked with often play around and turn each other's chairs off if they get the chance. But no, it should not be for disciplinary reasons by the very adults meant to assist them.

Sometimes parents and people in education run into very bad personality conflicts. It happens. Whenever it does I usually advise people to seek another person in the district to deal with. And as in all walks of life, there are dumbheads and the hardasses.

[Midlodemocrat]

115. It is a violation of the ADA to turn off his power.

It's like removing the prosthetic leg from a child.

I see where you are coming from in terms of danger to him or another child, but it has never been an issue. This was purely punitive.

My biggest issue with some of these dumbfucks is that most of them have been educated beyond their intelligence and their very existence in certain positions makes them dangerous.

[MichiganVote]

118. Yes, the Peter Principle is a reality.

[Midlodemocrat]

116. And see, here FAPE came into play with my friend's child who

is in the wheelchair because he has no cognitive learning issues.

Access to the building wasn't an issue, however, access to the playground was and they kept saying "Free and APPROPRIATE, free and APPROPRIATE" because that got them off the hook monetarily.

[MichiganVote]

120. Sounds like there is debate about whether or to what degree

the playground is a part of the child's education. I worked on a plan with a school one time in which the girl was wheelchair bound and had difficulty managing to get outside etc. The school arranged for playground buddies(other girls) to assist her as needed. End of problem.

[Midlodemocrat]

97. Depends on the state. Laws vary from state to state.

which is why it is remarkably difficult to track federal and state monies for gifted and talented education.

[MichiganVote]

109. IDEA, Individual Disabilities Education Act is a federal law

and does not vary from state to state. The only variance that will be found is in the delivery of some services state to state or district to district. Youth who receive program services for gifted and talented do not fall under this law and are receiving something other than special education.

[Midlodemocrat]

110. Actually, after the federal law is enacted, some states choose to

'model' their guidelines after this law. The problem is that if you read through all the paperwork from the Council on Exceptional Children and then try and apply it to your own state, unless you are a legal expert in that arena, you will be lost. The fast and loose with the terminology is incredible.

The wording in our state and subsequently county, for example ,follows the federal wording almost exactly, EXCEPT, and this is a big one, it gives tremendous latitude to the administration and as a result, the situation is fruit basket upset.

According to the paperwork I received three years ago, she is entitled to a very different education than the one she will be receiving. She is supposed to receive 'differentiated instruction'.

I ask you, how is that possible when a child in the class has been classified MiMD since pre-school? It isn't fair to either child. This child's mom is beside herself. There is no way a child who is classified as MiMD can come into an allegedly 'gifted cluster', (which I will believe when I see it) without an aide and succeed. It is a recipe for disaster.

I am at a loss as to why they don't see this.

And, my question to these morans, which of course, went unanswered, "why spend all this taxpayer money to test them and 'identify' them if you aren't going to act on it?"

[MichiganVote]

119. Differential instruction is used by most, if not all, good teachers,

regardless of what a student is about. It has been used for decades and even more so of late. More and more general education teachers are 'borrowing' teaching strategies from both special education and from gifted and talented programs.

Differentiating instruction means creating multiple paths so that students of different abilities, interest or learning needs experience appropriate ways to absorb, use, develop and present concepts as a part of the daily learning process. It allows students to take greater responsibility and ownership for their own learning, and provides opportunities for peer teaching and cooperative learning.

The hang up in the whole process is the time it takes to present multiple strategies for multiple lessons during a given school day. Time is a factor in every teacher's day and all the more so due to NCLB/testing.

[philosophie_en_rose]

98. Special education is designed to accomodate special needs.

The public school system teaches to what they perceive to be the 'middle.' Gifted students can be just as frustrated and limited by a lack of accomodations. Many states require schools to provide an appropriate education plan.

Almost 40 states have legislation to protect gifted students. But a parent should always fight for the best, even where no laws exist.

[MichiganVote]

112. Children with disabilities are traditionally considered the students

with "special needs" based on IDEA, Individual Disabilites Education Act. IDEA does not address education for gifted and talented students, nor is it mandated to do so. States or given municipalities may mandate specific programming or offer it as the case may be. However, any or all of those programs are not special education.

Special education is also not "accomodations". Schools may offer physical or academic accomodations as a part of a child study team's recommendation, but it is still not special education. Behavioral support to assist all students who experience frustration and thereby act out is also commonly available in all schools districts. Often schools will offer students are flexible schedule of both age appropriate and skill appropriate classes to accomodate their differences. It should be noted that gifted children are usually very smart, but not always mature enought to handle an older gorup of kids---despite what the adults in their lives want for them.

The only thing that all US schools are mandated to provide to all students is FAPE, Free and Appropriate Public Education. This does not entitle gifted students to 'gifted' programming although schools may choose to offer that programming based on the funds that states allot to them. Sorry...case law is rampant with people who have tried to "entitle" their kids to all manner of programming based on their idea of what is appropriate.

Testing of a student may take place to determine their academic levels but unless they fall into a number of special education categories per IDEA, they wll not receive special education services. As I said, it may be called something else but its not special ed.

[Midlodemocrat]

113. And, it varies from locality to locality what is considered

'special ed'.

My son has a 504 because he has ADD. Extremely minimal accomodations, preferential seating, calling mom if grades start to slip and that is essentially it.

His coordinator at the new high school is the "Coordinator of Special Education". There are no MiMD, or MoMD, or ED or severe and profound classes at this school, just kids with an IEP or 504.

And, catch this, my daughter's elementary school, which has two MoMD and two ED and one MiMD classes has no one in administration with a background in special education! And, the previous assistant principal who went to another school to become principal had all her training in special education as does her assistant principal and they have NO special education classes! Not one!!

How incredibly fucked up is that?

Personally, I would like the 'gifted and talented' program in this county to 'go away'. The right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing and the monies are better spent on the children with disabilities.

You can imagine how popular THAT stance is in this competitive world.

[MichiganVote]

117. The only reason it should vary is b/c of the level of assessment

skill that professionals in the special ed. dept bring to bear; psychologists, social workers, speech path. etc. Special education, IEP's and all are very well laid out. There are changes afoot just now as IDEA is reauthorized but the essential issue is the same, does the kid have a disability and is the disability adverely affecting their academic progress.

In pretty much all districts a special education coordinator is needed b/c frankly the level of detail and paperwork for special ed. is mind boggling. More and more special ed. supervisors/coordinators handle other student issues such as at-risk students. That is not too sutprising.

An IEP, individual education plan, is not about a room or a program name. It is about devising a plan to assist the student in the identified areas of their education that are weak. So its not uncommon to have a special education "room" in only one or more buildings. More and more districts utilize Teacher Consultant or Resource Room teachers who teach within a reg. ed. setting.

As to the educational qualifications of the both assistant principal or principal, I know of no Masters level program that specifies they must have a special education background. There are a number of professionals I have worked with who began degrees for school administration and at the same time they serve as special education supervisors. Why? Oh lots of reasons but usually b/c they have an interest in the area and have demonstrated good skills. I've personally known a woman who had a Doctorate following a teaching cert. in special ed. Was she any good? No, frankly she wasn't.

[Midlodemocrat]

127. In our county, the special education program specifies that an

administrator must have a background in special education in order to fully understand the complexities of IEPs and 504s. At this particular school, a member of the staff was 'bumped' up to this position with a grant from the federal government, but she is markedly deficient.

I have a doctorate in child and adolescent psychology, so I am well versed in testing special needs children and making recommendations for their placement, and I have never seen such a backward, half-assed bunch of people.

One of my dearest friends has a little one with Down Syndrome. This summer, she wanted the child, who is entering fourth grade, to take 2nd grade math during summer school to hone her mathematic skills. Mind you, she was paying for the program, not the system.

They crucified her. She finally had to picket the school and go to the media to get what she wanted. Why? Because these assholes are fucking control freaks who get a hard on watching parents squirm while trying to do the best thing for their children.

The special education program here is a complete joke. The latest idea is to keep the child with special needs closest to their home school rather than busing them to the school with the best program. So, you have children with Down Syndrome in with children with severe autism. As you can well imagine, no one learns a blessed thing. It's simply custodial care.

[Ellen Forradalom]

91. Schools suck. Public or private.

Our very worst hassle was with a private school. One week before school ended they tartly informed us that we were not welcome back. After a summer of hassling we took our son to the local public school and we hit the jackpot. He had the best first grade teacher ever. Public-school second grade in California looks promising too.

[Midlodemocrat]

102. When did we as a nation lose control over our children's education?

Why is it so verboten to question the adult with whom your child spends 6 hours a day? Why is it so verboten to question policies that you feel aren't helping children?

As a former child/adolescent psychologist, it makes me sick. I wish it were just here, but I hear the same complaints from family/friends nationwide.

[The2ndWheel]

121. Technically

When we started sending them to other adults for 6 hours a day. Specialization don't come free.

[Pacifist Patriot]

124. I'll take your question a step forward.

When did parent's lose the right to raise and educate their own children? (approx. 1880...actually not that long ago. I'm impressed how quickly the paradigm shifted.)

I'm frequently attacked for homeschooling my children, but the local school policies would be extremely detrimental to my children's learning styles, personalities and our family's schedule and priority.

But apparently I'm un-American, elitist and basically a bitch for removing my children from the system.

[Midlodemocrat]

125. Well, I homeschooled my son last year.

And the idea of homeschooling my 10yo isn't even an option. She's too social at this point.


Frankly, hindsight being 20/20, if I knew then what I know now, I would have purchased a place in the country and homeschooled all three of them.

I naively thought that this community would be similar to the one in which I grew up. What a farce.

[NashVegas]

100. What Reason Did They Give For the Change?

They may be PO'd at you for stirring up a hornet's nest, but that doesn't explain their change of heart.

[Midlodemocrat]

101. I think I might have misled, you Crisco.

There was no change of heart. They assured us that she would receive the appropriate education. :eyes:

They kept saying "You have to trust us". SOrt of like the government. "I'm from the government and I'm here to fuck you".

I finally said. "No, I don't. The only thing I have to trust is that you will be professional and do your job".

Interestingly, I just hung up with a mom who switched her kid FROM this class to a class without a gifted cluster. I hadn't spoken to this mom previously, but I guess I'll still get blamed for that little ordeal.

So be it.

[NashVegas]

104. Ah

You'll love this:

A friend of mine, a former at-home mother for 14 years, was somewhat of a terror if she felt her kids were getting shorted unfairly.

She later rejoined the workforce in tech, eventually, and wound up working for the school district, heading a program to train teachers on the Chancery progs. After two years of hearing, "you just don't know how it is, you're not a teacher," is now going back to classes to get certified. We, her friends and family, figure she'll be Superintendant 3-5 years. Gonna be fun shit.

[Midlodemocrat]

105. You're right, I do love that story.

My biggest issue with these idiots is why they feel they can't be questioned.

If I don't advocate for my child, who will?

[ScreamingMeemie]

107. Good for you... I have found that if we don't advocate for our

children no one else is going to. Many times, teacher's hands are tied by school systems that don't want to waste precious budget $$. But there is no excuse for what that woman said to you. Your kids will be grateful for it. :yourock:

[cmd]

129. You just might be overreacting to what might be a good situation

First of all, it appears that your daughter didn't seem upset with the assignment. (She just wanted to know who was in her class.) You might be robbing your daughter of what might be the best school year she ever had. Why? More gifted kids were in one classroom than another? More low performing kids are in her class? Why don't you wait until you have a reason to complain?

[Midlodemocrat]

130. You didn't read what I wrote.

She isn't upset because I didn't discuss it with her. She did however, burst into tears when I told her who her teacher was because she was under the impression all summer that another teacher had the 'gifted cluster'.

And, FWIW, I have every reason to complain that the policies set forth by the county and state aren't being followed. Her paperwork specifically states that she is to be grouped with other 'high ability children exclusive of the lowest academic performers'.

That is the way it reads. I am just trying to get her the best education possible before she goes on to middle school.

As an ex-teacher, I am somewhat skeptical that one person can teach to those who tested 'gifted' and those who have been in MiMD since pre-school at the same time without additional adult assistance. I adore this MiMD child, but her mom is also freaking out because she feels she will be completely left in the dust.

Who wins here? No one. They all lose.