The "Marriage Killing Side Effects of Breastfeeding", by a ManO'God:

[elehhhhna]

My favorite quotes:

"Obviously, breast-feeding is not the same as carrying on an extramarital affair. But when a mother gives her breasts to her son and takes them away from her husband, the effect on the marriage can feel the same.

"In the end, there are two effects of breast-feeding that we often refuse to acknowledge. One is the de-eroticization of a woman's body, as her husband witnesses one of the most attractive parts of her body serving a utilitarian rather than romantic purpose...public breast-feeding is profoundly de-eroticizing, and I believe that wives should cover up, even when they nurse their babies in their husband's presence.

"I believe this same problem comes up when men witness childbirth up close. There are certain poses in which a husband should not see his wife...That is just too erotic a part of a wife's anatomy for it to become a mere birth canal."


More here:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/194/story_19451_1.html

Have at it.

[Atman]

1. I don't know where to begin.

Uh...um...Yay, breasts!

:shrug:

[soothsayer]

2. i guess women should never watch men pee, then? (ewwww)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

22. Haha! Good one!

:rofl:

:thumbsup:

[helderheid]

41. You're being far too logical! :) Apparently women are only to be seen

as sexual objects?

[Mad_Dem_X]

66. That's what it sounds like to me!

"De-eroticising" the woman's body???? Hey, moran, feeding a baby is the primary purpose of breasts! They're NOT made for men's entertainment. The same goes for the birth canal.

Holy crap. :banghead:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

68. For the record, I don't want ANYONE to watch me pee.

And I sure as hell don't want to watch anyone pee.

[LostinVA]

3. Oy vay

I am gobsmacked...

[Greyhound]

55. Gobsmacked: Reaction when confronted with heretofore unimagined,

monumental stupidity.

Great word! :rofl:

Imagine my surprised embarrassment to find it is a real word. :blush:

[Ellen Forradalom]

69. an etymology of gobsmacked:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-gob1.htm

[hobbit709]

4. These people

really have a fixation problem. :wtf: :banghead: :rofl: :rofl:

[tocqueville]

5. these guys are perverts

they should all be sent to a psychiatrist. They really are sick bastards.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. OMG

I'm absolutely blown away by this. What an utterly sick argument. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

[LaurenG]

7. Oh fo r %^%$8* sake

Then men need to grow the heck up. So marriage is not about partenership it's about making sure men don't feel abandoned and disgusted?

OK - I am now sure I live in the twilight zone.

[KatyaR]

94. And these are the men running the country, folks.

Ain't it grand?

[LeftyMom]

8. Okay, so he's saying men deserve more coddling than thier babies?

Let's clear this up. My breasts are *mine.* They fed my kid and men sure don't seem to mind them, but they belong to me, they belonged to me when I was lactating, they belong to me when I'm getting some. Mine. Any guy who has a problem with that doesn't get to see 'em and damned sure won't be reproducing with me.

[elehhhhna]

23. Sublimely succinct post, LefttMom. My hubs waould beam at

me & the babies and say "Now THAT is a miracle".

[SoyCat]

79. Women like you make me proud to be a woman.

[notadmblnd]

9. What kind of crazy lunatic thinking is that?

Nah, it is not taking the breast from that man and giving it to the son that hurts a marriage once a child is born. If the man is insecure to begin with, he'll resent everything about the baby. I remember my husbands complaint after our son was born.. it was the lack of attention he was getting. I'm not talking about sex. It was the re-focusing of my energy on sustaining the life we brought into the world. Sustaining, caring and supporting him became secondary and he resented the hell out of it.

[Demit]

10. It's all about a woman and her body being solely for a man's pleasure.

Not.

[moc]

11. This guy has forgotten the cardinal rule of marriage

IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT HIS NEEDS!!

He needs to seriously get over himself and grow the hell up.

[acmavm]

12. Stupid bastards like this should just stick to Penthouse and

masturbation.

[elehhhhna]

27. He's reinvented Madonna/Whore complex. Now it is the

Madonna/Whore/Bovine mammal complex.

[Teaser]

13. are you sure this isn't a dry run for "The Onion?"

nt

[Fierce]

14. Men can't have constant unfettered access to their wives' bodies?

Boo fuckin' hoo.

Also, "mere" birth canal.

This man is sick and not even worth the time for a word-by-word thrashing.

[acmavm]

15. I don't know what happened here, first it told me I couldn't

post because I had a link or something open. So I tried it again and I see my original message has been posted.

See folks, this is what happens when you have insomnia and stay up all night then go to work.

[Fridays Child]

16. For me, ignorant articles like this, de-eroticize men's bodies.

This man, Shmuley Boteach, has some major issues that he needs to deal with.

Edited to add: This guy has a TV show? Fucking unbelievable.

[xchrom]

17. conservative christians CANNOT stop thinking about

penises and vaginas -- especially other peoples penises and vaginas.

all the time -- every second of every day -- they think about your boobies and your dick.

worse -- they have an opinion about your boobies -- your dick .

and as evidenced by this perverts opinion -- it gets worse.

[Fridays Child]

26. I'm pretty sure this guy is not christian but I agree...

...conservative part of your observation. :)

[xchrom]

31. weird isn't it?

[The Deacon]

35. Conservative Jew

And I mean that in the religious sense (as in: Reform Jew, Conservative Jew, Orthodox Jew.)

[Critters2]

93. I think he's Orthodox nt

[The Traveler]

18. Real men aren't squeemish

Wonder if he's worried about cooties, too? :evilgrin:

[wellstone dem]

19. My sister told me that when she was breastfeeding the new baby boy

and her other little boy who was just a year old had his hand on his mother's breast for comfort, her husband said, "Hey, all the men in this house like your breasts." She loved it, and he sure didn't feel abandoned because she was breastfeeding.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

20. All forbid a man should ever see his wife as anything other than a bastion

of sexuality.

:eyes:

Dude, the reason a breast is there--the primary. fucking. reason.--is to feed a child.

:grr:

[ZombieNixon]

62. Gee, I thought they were to give us something to stare at when we talk to

y'all. :eyes:

[Chimichurri]

21. Guys out there...what do you honestly think about this?

I have heard about this ideology before but never from a "man of god". I'm curious what men think about what he's saying.

[Lerkfish]

38. I think he's full of baloney myself.

being with my wife while she was pregnant, giving birth and (attempting) breast feeding was the most romantic thing ever, and humbled me to know I was part of my family. I didn't feel a difference in how attracted I was to her sexually, but I did find an INCREASE in how attracted I was to her as a person, and as my life partner, and as the mother of my precious child.
I knew it wasn't about me initially, so I didn't worry about it. As it turned out, she couldn't nurse, and we bottle-fed, and that was even better for me because I got to share in the feeding and bonding with my son.

but bottom line: any husband who is thinking about THEIR sexual needs over the needs of his offspring and his wife has messed up priorities.

[The Deacon]

46. First, An Admission:

I'm not a "Breast Man." Never quite understood the whole American obsession with big breasts.
Second, I spent a lot of my childhood overseas in poorer countries - so I knew the primary use for breasts before I ever started reacting to them as sexual objects.
Third, I reached emotional maturity about the same time as I reached sexual maturity - it has been a long time since I equated someone paying attention to someone else as ignoring me. I understand the concept that it is possible for someone to love multiple people in multiple, different ways. I don't require that I be the center of attention all the time.
So, my conclusion? Yes, some immature, emotionally retarded men feel this way.

[Chimichurri]

60. Wow. Both of you who answered my question make me

proud to be part of DU. Thank you for giving this girl who's pondering motherhood for the first time a real man's perspective.

[Kickoutthejams23]

65. It would never occur to me to object.

Or to put it in guy talk.... Hey any excuse to pull out the puppies is fine by me. :applause:

[Burma Jones]

82. Absolute Nonsense

It's indicative of a "man owning his wife" mentality. I suppose there are some women out there that want to be "owned," but I sure as hell wouldn't want to marry one. If all I wanted was a sex object, I would rent one.

I have a two week old daughter right now. She's our third child. She is, of course, breast feeding. Also, I not only witnessed her birth, I got to remove her from the "birth canal" (after the Midwife made sure there were no umbilical cord around the neck issues) and place her on her Mom's chest. It's a good thing...........

We will, naturally, resume where we left off in the passion department, but for cryin' out loud, you gotta let the woman heal up.....

You know, if you haven't been with a woman long enough to ease up a bit with the pneumatics when appropriate, you haven't been with her long enough to have kids......

[MrModerate]

24. What a putz! What a goniff! What a schmuck!

Let me put a little lesson together since this guy thinks of himself as a teacher:

Having children is not trivial. It changes your life. You have to adapt to the needs of the child in ways you never imagined. If you're not an absolute moron, you'll work out ways to accommodate the needs and desires of all family members in some balanced fashion. Balance is key -- one family member (in this case the husband) is not the king, and trying to achieve balance while affording the husband some sort of kingly primacy will not work. Most people are able to modify their behavior based on context. Sometimes a breast is a breast, sometimes it's a feeding station. Sometimes a birth canal is a birth canal, sometimes it's something else entirely (please add imagination here).

Grownups make these contextual distinctions all the time -- have for the last few hundred thousand years or more, without the intervention of holier-than-thou twits like the author of this article.

[The Deacon]

34. Its On TLC

Which used to stand for "The Learning Channel." Its become so overloaded with home improvement shows I don't even have it on my favorites list any more.
My wife watched this guy's show a couple of times ("Shalom In The Home") until I showed her his article railing against Jews who didn't support Israel during the Lebannon invasion. Didn't even bother showing her his article railing against Jews who didn't vote for Lieberman. She's a major proponent of breastfeeding (one of the things I love about her - I still don't eat Nestle's) so I wonder if I should show this one to her? She may go ballistic on TLC.

[mainegreen]

25. Um, I kinda think my wife is damn sexy when she breastfeeds.

But I always think my wife is damn sexy. Hell, that little post birth pot belly makes me randy every time I see it. Of course, I always get that way when I see her. Perhaps that's why I married her.

Oh, and that guy is a moron. I was there the whole time my son was born. I wouldn't have missed that for anything!

[AspenRose]

61. That's what my husband says

And he was there for the birth too.....hasn't turned him off in the least (believe me!).

(He's even a *gasp!* republican!)

What is WRONG with this guy? :shrug:

[lectrobyte]

28. Luckily I painted the walls semi-gloss, it will help me scrape my

brains back in.

[ContraBass Black]

29. Wow.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Wait, this isn't satire?

[China_cat]

30. He said

"That is just too erotic a part of a wife's anatomy for it to become a mere birth canal."

How the hell does he think it became a mere birth canal?

[m_welby]

32. I don't understand his point

breastfeeding is not erotic? that's true I do not find it erotic at all. It is however quite beautiful and uplifting in an indescribable way.

Watching someone give birth is not erotic? yep, I gotta agree with that, when I saw my kids born that was the last thing on my mind. Also an incredibly beautiful and joyful thing though.

umm, because I've seen my wife do these things am i scarred for life or something?

Not as far as I can tell.

[newportdadde]

33. A wife breastfeeding is great for a husband, here is why.

My wife breastfed our toddler until he was 9 months and is breastfeeding our twin 6 month old sons. Here are some reasons why its great for a husband.

1) On the go always available food. No bottle worries etc, it was important with our son but extremly important with twins. Nothing like two babies crying in stereo waiting for a bottle.

2) It is SOOOOOOO Much cheaper. We save a fortune having my wife breastfeed our twins, it would cost us an arm and a leg via formula, I think we did the math and it was like a couple grand.

3) All of the immunities passed on, I think it really helps keep a child healthy when they are small.

4) Selfish reason here - because my wife was breastfeeding she got up with the twins in the middle of the night, she could let them latch on and let them eat. I got a hell of a lot more sleep then if we had been bottle feeding.

5) Selfish reason here - visually at least my wife has much much larger breasts, I'm not a 'breast man' but its definately very visual. Now they are pretty much out of physical play given they are full of milk lol, but watching a former B cup walk around in a tight t-shirt with Ds is interesting.

I think this guy needs to lighten up.

[mainegreen]

40. I've got to agree with your 4 & 5!

Especially 4.

[Lerkfish]

44. actually I gotta disagree with #4.

my wife could not breastfeed, so we bottle-fed, equally splitting the duties. Since I stay up later, I covered the first half of the night, and since she got up earlier, she covered the second half.
It was a great relaxing bonding experience for me as a dad that I would have completely missed out on if she could have breastfed. I wouldn't have missed that for all the money in the world.

there is nothing more comforting in the world than rocking a baby with a bottle, for a dad.

[mainegreen]

47. Well, I've got my chore. I'm the only one who can get him to sleep.

Every night I rock him for two hours until he passes out, while my wife hangs out with me. Everyone's family and kids are different. As long as you bond together, it's all good.

:toast:

[Batgirl]

36. the part that especially kills me

"Obviously, breast-feeding is not the same as carrying on an extramarital affair. But when a mother gives her breasts to her son and takes them away from her husband, the effect on the marriage can feel the same.

He is clearly stating that nursing a baby boy is a form of sexual betrayal. How does an adult man come up with such a creepy notion? Could it be he finds himself gazing off into space while entertaining naughty thoughts about his own mother's breasts? These crazed moralists are usually revealing their personal obsessions when they come up with this kind of shit. It's probably his own incestuous urges that make him want to stamp out breastfeeding.

My husband thought it was cool that I breastfed our sons.

[VelmaD]

56. And I loved how baby girls just don't exist...

or they don't count or something.

[Fleshdancer]

37. This guy needs to marry a blow up doll

Heaven forbid my life should have a bigger purpose then being an erotic plaything for a man. :grr:

[BuddhaGirl]

39. that was nauseating!!!!!

Let him know what you think!

http://www.shmuley.com/contact.php :evilgrin:

[midnight]

42. Are these quotes from Americans?

Where does this crap come from? Is it the baby food industry that wants women to have to be responsible for uneducated people's comments.

[undeterred]

43. What if a woman gives her breasts to her baby daughter?

Is she homo-eroticized?

[OldSiouxWarrior]

45. Bullbleep !!

I was present for the delivery and it was a wonderful experience.

My wife breast fed the baby. It was beautiful to watch the joy.

It did not make her less sexy at all.

A man that would be turned off by that is less of a man. Yeah, that's a judgemental statement - so what? I can be real judgemental at times.

[Tyo]

48. Have I got this right?

So lemme get this straight. These wackos have said time and again that the only valid reason for having sex is to create babies.

But apparently it is a major turnoff for men when they see a woman’s vagina and breasts involved in the birth and caring for said babies. Therefore men should not be present when their wives are giving birth and if a woman absolutely must breastfeed she needs to do it out of her husband’s sight otherwise he might get so grossed out that he will no longer find her vagina and breasts the sexual turn-on that he once did.

Sooo, I guess this means that while babies should be the primary goal for Fundie WOMEN, for Fundie guys the primary goal is getting their rocks off and nothing involving birth and babies had better get in the way of that even though birth and babies would be the whole point of getting said rocks off in the first place. Or something like that. I don't know, I'm still confused.

[The Deacon]

50. Actually, This Guy Is A Conservative Jew

So he thinks sex for the sake of sex is okay. As long as the man's needs are paramount.

[displacedtexan]

49. When I was breastfeeding, my husband got up every night...

brought the baby to me for feeding, then changed her diaper and
put her back to bed.

It was (and the whole child-rearing years were, too) a joint effort.

Take that, Shalom guy, you ignorant, worthless fucktard.

[I Have A Dream]

71. That's a wonderful way to split the responsibilities!

:)

[boolean]

51. This ****HAS**** to be a joke

Come on. It has to be.

[donsu]

52. puke on the manOgod

nt

[skygazer]

53. So explain to me how colonial people had so many children?

After all, the only method of feeding babies that they had was to breastfeed. Didn't seem to stop those horny colonials, though. Perhaps they were more manly men back then.

[undeterred]

54. Dr. Freud would have a field day with this.

Or maybe he would be scared away. :scared:

[Sparkly]

57. Oh PLEASE tell me this is a joke!!!

Otherwise, whoever wrote it is WARPED!!! :wtf:

[gauguin57]

58. schmuely and michael jackson

Rabbi Schmuley Boteach was a premier Michael Jackson apologist when Jacko was going through his "troubles." Yep, sickety sick sick SICK!

http://www.shmuley.com/articles.php?id=193

"... Four years ago, Michael Jackson and I produced approximately 30 hours of taped conversations intended as the basis of a book that would reveal his true self, the nature of his relationship with children, and his insights on various aspects of life, including love, spirituality, history, religion, and G-d.

"Michael asked me to write the book because we were close friends at the time and I was an experienced writer who could help him frame his authentic concerns and use his celebrity for a positive end. ..."

[Strawman]

59. I have found Elvis Presley, and he is a rabbi

"In the end, there are two effects of breast-feeding that we often refuse to acknowledge. One is the de-eroticization of a woman's body, as her husband witnesses one of the most attractive parts of her body serving a utilitarian rather than romantic purpose. This is not to say that breast-feeding isn't sexy. Indeed, the maternal dimension is a central part of womanliness. But public breast-feeding is profoundly de-eroticizing, and I believe that wives should cover up, even when they nurse their babies in their husband's presence."

[ZombieNixon]

63. Right, because if I ever have kids, I'll be jealous of my infant son

sucking my wife's boob. :eyes:

I guess if these guys ever have daughters who breastfeed they get out the camera and make a lesbian porn tape. x(

The "fun bits" of the body also serve utiliarian purpose...peeing, anyone? Gimme a break. :banghead:

[elehhhhna]

89. Is Schmuley jealous, or grossed out?

Was he breastfed? Someone, quick--interview his Mother.

[GoneOffShore]

64. You should have mentioned it was Shumley

He is such a smacked ass.

My conserodox rabbi brother in law has dealt with him and found that he's a blow hard idiot.

[idgiehkt]

67. He's been on Oprah. Man, I'm so stunned.

I can't believe this is the same guy. How horrible. On the episode I've seen him on he made a lot of sense.

I've also read the part about giving birth. I don't know if I could ever have anyone watch me anyway, because I'm very shy, but wow. I thought he was a good guy but he sounds like a lunatic

"I told the mother that in being so devoted to her son, she had committed the cardinal sin of marriage, which is to put someone else before her spouse, even if that someone is your child. Furthermore, I said, her obsession had turned one of her most attractive body parts into a feeding station, an attractive cafeteria rather than a scintillating piece of flesh."

This is just sick, sick, sick.

[The Deacon]

70. "put somebody else before her spouse"?

I'm six foot, over 200 pounds (nevermind just how much, thank you) & am quite capable of feeding myself (I make a killer steak au poivre by the way.) The little, pink, hairless thing who could barely hold his head up needed someone to put his needs first. Has nothing to do with marriage - and everything to do with being parents.

[idgiehkt]

73. I know.

That sounds really pathological to me. It's scary, because like I said I heard this man speak on Oprah the other day and he actually seemed to help this family alot that was struggling with their own issues...but this stuff and the child-bearing stuff is just horrible anti-child propaganda. I think child-bearing is gross (all parts not related to the actual child, anyway) and I would be self-conscious about going through the process...but I would hope it would not ruin my sex life. I have a weak stomach and since I've had sexual relationships with women I don't know if that would 'traumatize' me or not seeing it. Probably not because I'm female but maybe for men the otherness is a factor...who knows.

This guy just has a horrible take on things when it comes to children. I'm not saying he isn't telling some men's truths...it probably doesn't hurt for some people to be able to express their feelings, I guess. But feelings are to be worked through, not to alter the whole course of the life and health of a child over. I mean if it is someone's truth isn't there a way to say "I respect and honor your feelings of envy, possessiveness, whatever, but you have to understand the child's well-being trumps what your adult reaction to it is". So, yeah, in essence, what you said.

[elehhhhna]

90. His website is rather inadvertently funny.

So at least he's got THAT going for him.

He repeats this gem more than once: "The man who has a woman who believes in him is impregnable and invincible. Nothing in life can hurt him because he has peace at this center."


Impregnable man? Interesting choice of words, Schmuley.

[grace0418]

72. Did you all read the whole article?

It was like the ravings of a complete lunatic! WTF was he blathering on about having diarrhea and a cough?

The fact that this nutjob has reproduced 8 times is absolutely horrifying to me.

[Oeditpus Rex]

74. This is basic to fundie sexuality

elehhhhna pretty much nailed it: Madonna-Whore. Guy sees his wife's body in a "mother" role, gets conflicted about it and rationalizes that it's her fault he doesn't find her sexy anymore because she's become a feeding/birthing machine. And thus is sexuality bad, because some men can't separate their lovers from their mothers.

Such guys need a psychologist a lot more than they need a god.

[hunter]

75. This fellow would be much happier with a man.

Men don't have "birth canals" and their breasts are pretty useless for anything but "romantic" purposes.

[LadyoftheRabbits]

76. Are they...

SERIOUS??? :wtf: OMG... :puke:

[rbnyc]

77. From my experience...

...I found that my breasts weren't de-eroticizaticized to my husband, but to myself. My husband still thought my breasts were sexy, but I couldn't see them, or experience them in that way, and even a full year after ending breast feeding, I still need a lot of foreplay before I'm comfortable with my husband touching my breasts. They totally changed for me.

[noonwitch]

78. The whole article wasn't as sexist as I thought it would be

The guy is saying to keep thinking about your wives' bodies in an erotic sense, not a utilitarian sense. The way he says it is bad, but husbands do need to keep thinking of their wives in an erotic sense, for the sake of their marriage.

[elehhhhna]

91. Squeamish men are not forced to focus on, say, the episiotomy procedure

etc.

Sheesh. I wanted hubs by my head, for moral support...and Docs give 'em a choice. Dads aren't kept in handcuffs and leg-irons.


But an objection to BREASTFEEDING? Does this prove the old adage "Breast men are immature"?

[tigereye]

80. what century are we living in, btw?

he can go get bent. Or unbent, as the case may be. :eyes:

[regularguy]

81. Not one for piling on, but...

this is the probably the stupidest fucking thing I've ever - and I mean *ever* - read!

"as her husband witnesses one of the most attractive parts of her body serving a utilitarian rather than romantic purpose"

I mean holy fuck, please let this be some sort of joke.

[Burma Jones]

83. I wonder if he tells his wife to shut the hell up

just because he enjoys oral sex........

[FedUpWithIt All]

84. Any man that would place his needs BEFORE that of my children,

on any matter, is doomed to be left out in the cold. It is simply a battle he will not win. I alone choose to give my affection and my body. Anyone who would compete with my babies will receive neither.


Some people are just twisted.

[u4ic]

85. That rabbi/'therapist'

is in desperate need of therapy...:wtf:

[NMMNG]

86. What a self-centered POS

Since when is any part of a woman's body solely his domain for whatever purpose he wants it to be for? Pardon us if our body parts have multiple functions and your puny egos can't handle it. :sarcasm:

Effing grow up or go back home with your mommies. :eyes:

[regnaD kciN]

87. What I find interesting...

...is that, although it has been well-established that this piece of nonsense comes from a Conservative Rabbi (i.e. a member of the Jewish faith), lots of people here keep persisting in the notion that it somehow discredits Christianity.

:wtf:

(That's a little bit like saying that I could never convert to Buddhism because I don't like the Upanishads... :crazy: )

[SKKY]

88. I dont' know folks...That statue of Brit Spears on all fours giving...

...birth was kinda hot! just kidding.

[Radical Activist]

92. I'm so happy you posted this.

Obviously a woman's body serves no higher purpose than to be an object of sexual desire for the man who owns her. Just amazing! :wow: