Discussion question for you all. Zomby's thread got me thinking on this.

[ScreamingMeemie]

I am married (hence the Mrs ;)). MrG works, as do I, but his job is 6 to sometimes 7 days a week. I can choose my own hours. He works 10-14 hours a day. Sometimes he goes weeks without a day off.

My question is this. Every morning I wake him up for work, make his coffee and his lunch, and send him out the door at 5 AM. Every night, I make his dinner. I wash the clothes and do most of the house cleaning.

Zomby's thread (not so much his thread but some of the answers to it) combined with comments from my own family got me thinking... Does this somehow make me a subservient woman? I've got my own mind, we have rollicking discussions with lots of disagreements. He's a former libertarian, and now bumper sticker sporting DEM thanks to some of those discussions. He's practically more "leftie" than me. Am I still somehow deficient in the feminist department?

My feeling is this: He's willing to bust his ass for this family, our home, our wellbeing. The least I can do is help him see it through. As his partner, his equal. If he has to get up the least I can do is get up to send him off.

For me it has nothing to do with being subservient, submissive, or a "good little wifey" and everything to do with love.

I don't mean for this to start a flamewar. I'm just interested in some thoughts on this. The subject interests me as my family is divided on it. Thanks! :hi:

He ordered for me twice in a restaurant... but that was a role playing thing. ;) :hi:

[In_The_Wind]

1. It makes you a loving partner in life not his submissive.

You are equals.

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. It's how I feel about it, but a lot of my family members (including my

father) don't see it that way. In my opinion, it was my decision. But they get bothersome about it. :hi:

[In_The_Wind]

26. It's impossible to understand the motivation for another's actions.

If it works for you and Mr.G then it's no one's business.

I guess all of your family members fend for themselves.
BTW The local pizzeria would be getting rich off our household if I didn't make decisions about meals.
However no one would be foolish enough to leave me a list of duties I need to attend to throughout the day.

I've witnessed a few micromanaged relationships. I thought it was nauseating but they were happy about it.

[NoSheep]

20. I agree. I think you are sharing in managing your life and home.

[NoSheep]

23. I don't think the restaurant experience thread was referring to a

situation like yours. Perhaps an assumption was made in the restaurant, but I know women who really are subservient to their husbands and it is that reality that started that other thread. Not your reality.
My SO and I both work full time and we share the housewrok...but I do more of the shopping...his job is MUCH more stressful than mine. He does garbage, dog walking and goes to pick up the takeout dinners. We share. We do what we can. If I did more and I resented it, that would be different. When he's resting and I'm working, I do it because I want to, not because it is expected, because it isn't.

[Haole Girl]

65. Darn...this is exactly what I was going to say!!

:toast:

[MrCoffee]

2. Sounds like MrG is one lucky guy

I should know, I'm one lucky guy too. My wife stays home with our daughter, but she still works WAY harder than me.

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. I am way luckier.

He'd do anything for me. BTW, I'm glad you're not letting an OB do the circumcising. :hi:

[Zomby Woof]

3. You had to be there

Bottom line - my impressions were accurate based on experience and sound judgment. Tone, inflection, body language - it was the total package. It was far from role playing. As for my thread, although there was some honest dissent, most of it was just a front for other agendas. People can see through that shit, lol.

Making lunch or the other duties you mentioned are things you do out of courtesy and effective household management. It's apples and mangoes compared to the subject of my thread.

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. Oh no. I was hoping you wouldn't misunderstand Zomby...

I posted in your thread and agreed with you based on what you experienced. I apologize. Your thread just got me thinking about this problem my family has with me. I think your conclusions were probably fairly accurate. I had a neighbor (as I posted in the thread) like that once. :hi: :hug:

I'm sorry. I didn't mean for this to be taken the wrong way. :loveya:

[Zomby Woof]

10. I got you now!

I gave you a better reply in my thread just now. :D :loveya:

Your family needs to appreciate you more! I know I do. :hug:

[progmom]

4. not at all

In a relationship, we gravitate toward the responsibilities that match our talents and interests. You love nurturing your husband, and it sounds like you do it very well. Anyone who judges you for doing something you love and are very good at needs to back waaaaaaay off. I think it's incredibly sweet that you get up with him - and you do it because you love him and that time you have with him in the morning.

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. ...and I am (reasonably) sure that he would do the same for me

if I was the one putting in the long hours. But I'm not, as evidenced by my post count. Now that, that he freaked out about...

[WritingIsMyReligion]

6. Well, I'm a rough-and-tumble hard-hearted one, as people remind me.

If you have an agreement with him that works for you, then I say, Whatever. Doesn't kill me, or anybody else.

I personally could not ever see myself being the person always in charge of food, cleaning, laundry, etc. The fact that your husband works so much makes your arrangement make sense on a practical level, at least, even if emotionally it wouldn't ring true for some people.

But if it rings true for you, then I say, fuck it all to hell--go for it.

;)

[ScreamingMeemie]

18. I think, if the roles were reversed, he would do the same for me.

The only back up I have for that is when I was on bedrest with our son. He did it all, without complaining... except for the fact that he said he didn't want my job. :D :hi: :hug:

[ZombieNixon]

7. Well, I'm neither a woman nor married, but I don't think so.

If I were married and had a job like MrG's, I wouldn't expect my wife to get up at 5 AM to help me prepare for the day (which is how I'd see making coffee and lunch for me) and send me off, but I sure as hell would appreciate it to no end. I'd feel like I should put in a helping hand with laundry and housework and such, but I've never worked a 14-hour day, so maybe I'd be too tired; can't really say.

The reality is in the field I'm hopefully going in to, I wouldn't have long hours like that and might even be able to work my own schedule (here's hoping) and in that case, I'd feel obligated to help out around the house because I have the time to do so and I couldn't stand the thought of my wife having to do that on her own. I'd hope she'd work as well, so I think we'd have to collaborate on the housework. :shrug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

19. In the beginning, he didn't expect it. I don't think he really would now.

If I don't get up he's more concerned about my well being. BUT, if I don't get up, neither does he. :hi: We need the paycheck. :rofl:

[bicentennial_baby]

8. I'm like you

I'm a full time student, but Sniffa works his ass off to provide for us. I get up with him some mornings, make his lunch, do his laundry while he's at work, and welcome him home every night with a kiss at the door. Often, I cook his dinner too. That's not subservience, it's love :)

And I let him order for me too...I'm a lazyass, and I'm shy :P

:pals:

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. I think my son will be that way...with the shyness thing.

He can barely look me in the eye most days. :rofl: :hug:

[LadyoftheRabbits]

9. I think it's great

If that were my situation, I could picture myself doing the exact same thing. But... I kind of enjoy housework :crazy:, so maybe I'm an oddity. At any rate, it *is* a partnership, and if that's how I could contribute, I'd do it. :hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. I enjoy some things...except for laundering whites.

I absolutely hate that and usually end up with a million pair of socks to fold because I hold off as long as my family can take it. :D :hi: :hug:

[buddhamama]

11. i might get into trouble here

by making an assumption, you do what you do for your husband Mrs.G out of love and respect, nothing more or less.

[ScreamingMeemie]

29. Pretty much. And I think that is the part that my family doesn't see.

Given that my folks are divorcing after 40 years it is my belief that they tend to superimpose their own troubled relationship upon mine. And the fact that MrG has changed a lot since we first started dating. No trouble for you. :hug:

[buddhamama]

46. based on your answer, Mrs.G

no, you're not submissive or subservient, whatsoever.

in addition, you're a super nice person! :hug:

[Iris]

63. sounds like your parents should have made sandwiches for each

other once in a while.

I'm sure when your hubby has the time, he does (or will once day do)nice little things for you as well.

[LaurenG]

12. I think you are a supportive spouse

Someone has to tend the home fire. If you both worked 10-14 hour days your household would suffer unless you hired someone to help. Since you have more time it seems reasonable that you would fill in.

I have been a stay at home mom as well as the only adult working when my husband first left the military. So I have experienced both sides of the coin. My husband pitched in and did the things that needed to be done no matter who traditionally filled that role when he was between jobs. It was great.

You're right it's a partnership and its cool when it works out so well for couples and families. Good for you MrsG. MrG is fortunate to have found you!

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. I am fortunate to have found him.

When I think of how crappy his days are I wonder how he can hold up.

It sounds like you have a wonderful relationship. I watched my aunt be an Air Force wife and I have a lot of respect for women/men who keep every aspect of a family's life juggled while their loved one is on duty. :hug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. Responding to someone's needs isn't subordinating yourself

unless it is :D

Of course, I've had the advantage of speaking to MrG and knowing he holds you in the highest of regard.

However, we've all witnessed and observed this at some time in our lives. More often with parents and children rather than spouses, but it's like many intagible qualities; you know it when you see it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

32. On most days he does...

;) When I was growing up ( I posted this in Zomby's thread) the next door neighbor was an ass who put his wife through much misery.

[Debi]

17. Giving freely of yourself

and receiving like rewards from another can in no way (at least in my mind) be considered subservient.

If Mr. G. informed you that you 'will' wake him up for work that you 'will' make his coffee and lunch and that you 'will' make supper I would have questions.

The two things said every morning in our home (for the last 10 years) are 'Good morning honey/dear/sweetheart' and 'oh, thank you for making the coffee' These words being said by the person who woke up latest.

I do the laundry/vacuuming/dishes, I get up first most days. My husband makes the money in our home (I can comfortably say that as I work as his secretary and don't draw a salary) and therefore 'provides' for us in the monetary manner. I pay the bills and purchase the groceries (and make the final decision on most things - appliances, insurance, phone service). When we are in a restaurant or calling for carry-out the majority of the time I order for my husband....So, which one of us is subservient? :shrug:

What you are is loving and loved - pretty nice eh? :hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

33. Your husband sounds like a peach! We always start the day with

"Honey, time to get up..."

"Honey, you're going to be late..."


"Honey, you really are late now..."


And he leaves me at the door after I tell him to wear his seatbelt and have a good day. :hi:


It works well for us. :hug:

[Blue Diadem]

22. I think you would only be subservient if you didn't want

to do those things, but yet continued to do them if your DH insisted upon it. Instead, it is of your own choosing. Nothing subservient about doing something you want to do or enjoy doing.

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. This is what I cannot get family members and friends to see.

It's been a choice. It wasn't written into my "contract". :hi:

[Rabrrrrrr]

24. Not submissive at all.

it's only submissive if he said "This is what you will do as my wife" and you agreed, and if there were punishments meted out for any time you didn't "pull your end of the bargain".

[ScreamingMeemie]

36. It's a give take thing.

I am 99.9% positive he would do the same for me, except he sucks at getting up by alarm clock.

[Gormy Cuss]

25. It's up to you.

If you felt unappreciated and stuck in a mindless stereotype of a good little Stepford wife, I'm thinking you would have told MrG that things had to change a long time ago. As long as you are comfortable with the workload breakdown it's nobody's business but yours and MrG's.

[ScreamingMeemie]

38. We all have our down times and there are days I feel underappreciated

but I think he can claim the same. For the most part it works for us. Thank you Gormy for your opinion and your username is one of my all time faves.

[RetroLounge]

28. I think what you're doing is love and partnership

But what I really want is to hear more about this role playing :9

:hi:

RL

[ScreamingMeemie]

43. But that, my darling, would get this thread locked.

:rofl: :hi:

[RetroLounge]

54. As I thought....

:rofl:

RL

[azmouse]

31. Not subservient at all.

I'm a homemaker so I have been following this discussion with interest. Anyone who knows me would tell you there is nothing subservient about me. I run my house with a velvet fist. I do everything including making most, if not all, the financial decisions in my home. I stay busy with improving my mind through reading and doing volunteer work.

What you are doing is showing love and concern for your husband's well-being. He is doing the same for your well-being. It would be a better society if everyone behaved that way. :hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

40. I am a real estate appraiser by trade which gives me a flexibility

that he, as a CNC programmer, doesn't have. I also own the check book (his words :) ) It has always worked out pretty well for us and I am pretty certain he'd do the same for me if the roles were reversed...

...and my family would probably call him whipped, they can be jerky that way. :hug:

[1gobluedem]

34. I think everyone should go with their strengths

And, if that fits into so-called 'traditional roles,' I don't see a problem.

I'm better with cooking, dishes, tidying, and laundry. He's better with big-time cleaning, like floors and walls, handling money, and dealing with cars. I am a better referee over kids' fights over clothes and other possessions, and gardening; he handles puke and dead animals. You just go with what fits you best -- an equal partnership is the main thing.

[ScreamingMeemie]

42. My husband has always handled runny nose "issues" with the kids...

It's the one thing that will make me vomit. :D

I do the oil changes and tire stuff believe it or not.

[nini]

37. Doing things for someone out of love is the preferable way ..

we should approach our relationships. We should all do things for our partners to help them, or just because we love them and want to.


Doing them because of control issues is quite different - that's what we encountered last night. There wasn't a whole lot of devotion going on.. it was definite male dominance and the subserviant wife.


:loveya:

[Zomby Woof]

41. HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?

Were you there????


(Oh, wait! You were!) :loveya:

[nini]

48. well.. I know I'm just a girl after all...

:P


and obviously because of that fact I have no sense of reality and in no way could judge a situation and figure out what is going on.. so maybe I should just put my demure self in the corner and let you handle all of this


:evilgrin:

On the other fucking hand - I'll say this. I am street smart enough to be able to figure out the dynamic of that couple and it was everything you said it was. If other people question our take on this then the reason would be they simply were not there or worse - they don't think this crap still goes on these days.

What really topped it off was the fact she barely made eye contact with him and certainly not the waitress. She knows her place all right :puke: :puke:

[tjwmason]

39. You choose to.

Thus it's not subservience in my book.

From what you've said you're an excellent wife and he's an excellent husband. You've found a pattern which works for both of you, and neither is forcing the other into something they don't want.

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. He is (and I can say this truthfully) the best thing that ever happened

to me..at exactly the right time. It sounds cliched but he saved me from myself.

Thanks tj, I think my family is basically just a bunch of opinionated creeps...at times. :hi:

[greatauntoftriplets]

45. I think that whatever works for a couple....

is their business and no one else's. Yes, it IS about love.

[merh]

47. And screw what others think

All that matters is what you think and feel, and if it works for you then it works.

Screw the rest of the world. It's not their relationship so they can just butt out! :hi:

:hug:

[Magrittes Pipe]

53. EXACTLY.

:thumbsup:

[Cathyclysmic]

55. ...

[Midlodemocrat]

49. You're doing those things because you love him. And, he works

his ass off to provide for you because he loves YOU.

That's how it is here. We both work full time. Me, from home, he travels almost every week. When we're both here, we split the work. When it's just me, I get the pleasure.

I don't mind it at all. It's the life I chose. I chose to be a wife and a mom. My mom did the same for us and turned out fiercely feminist kids.

Doesn't make you subservient to cook or clean. It makes one subservient to BE subservient.

:hi:

[Avalux]

50. If you're doing it by choice, you are not being submissive.

If, however, you were forced to do it and if you didn't there would be consequences, then you would be. Loving and respecting your husband for what he does, and showing it by taking care of him in your manner is just fine as long as you WANT to do it. :hi:

[idgiehkt]

51. I think the presence of choice makes it not forced submission.

It seems pretty clear the issue is whether there is choice or not. If you take away someone's choice to be submissive that's opression as well. In your case it doesn't sound like subservience or submission it just sounds like a private agreement about division of labor. Plus it sounds like you really love the guy which is so romantic....

Forced submission is what sucks, that's control issues that have nothing to do with reality but with other stuff the controller feels out of control about, usually childhood issues not dealt with.

The whole B/D, S/M thing is another facet of it too. Sometimes that's how people express their sexuality and sometimes it carries over into daily life where people eroticize transactions that aren't really sexual and give them a sexual charge. It's nobody's business, really, unless it's happening truly against the will of the masochist/bottom in the equation. Sorry to get icky-sticky perverse, but you mentioned role playing.

[Richardo]

52. If you're happy and he's happy, everyone else should butt out.

:hi: MrsG!!

[johnnie]

56. I thought all chicks do that?

No?





























:evilgrin:

[Missy Vixen]

57. MrsGrumpy, he's a lucky guy

I'm sure he adores you, because you are a really, really nice person and obviously adore him as well.

>Am I still somehow deficient in the feminist department?<

Well, then, I guess I'll have to join you in the feminist deficiency department. I think that couples should work out whatever arrangement suits them. If it's a more traditional marriage, more power to 'em. If they're happy, it's really nobody's else's business.

As a former boyfriend told me a long, long time ago: "It's not men's work. It's not women's work. It's just work."

Julie

[billyskank]

58. Absolutely not.

It makes you part of a team.

[wildhorses]

59. this is what I think. I think

:yourock:

[mdmc]

60. sounds like your choice

peace and low stress.

If you wanted to be a stunt double, yet you are making hubby dinner instead, then it would be a different story.

[SOteric]

61. *snerk*

*giggle* "Subservient, ..." *snort*

No, not you MizzGee.

Every couple, regardless of genders, -every couple has to work things out for themselves in terms of which will provide what level of nurture to the family unit. Traditionally this falls to women in heterosexual relationships, but I feel that this is likely a chicken/egg type question. Women are quite often superior nurturers. A great many well-documented studies bear this out. Whether it's because of our natures or the traditions of society is still hotly debated.

Being equal doesn't make us interchangeable. My parents marriage lasted a liftime because they each recognised their individual gifts and played to their strengths to form a team. Anyone who thought my mum was a docile little Catholic wife, - never met my mother.

[GOPisEvil]

62. If it's your honest choice, then it's not subservience.

That's what feminism is to me: the freedom to live your life as you choose and participate equally with your husband, however you choose to define that.

[trof]

64. A marriage ain't a 50-50 deal.

It's 100%-100%.
That's what she gives me and that's what she deserves.

I hate to be around couples who run each other down.
The eye-rolls and the (at least implied) "well...he/she's so dumb/clumsy/inept/inarticulate, what can you expect?"

And don't get me started on the "Do you LET him/her do that?"
The last time someone made that comment to me I said "Hon, she is over the age of consent and don't live with her momma and daddy any more. I don't "LET" her do a damn thing. Sometimes we'll talk a situation or decision over, but she's a grown up woman and she does what she wants to do."

<steps down off of soapbox>
;-)