true or false cybersex is cheating

[plcdude]

what do you think? I tend to think it could be.

[TXlib]

1. Depends on what the definition of "is" is...

:evilgrin:

[terrya]

2. IMO, it sure is.

And I've sure been tempted. But NO.

[trof]

3. As long as you don't say "I love you", it's OK.

;-)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. Does anyone have ethics anymore?

Hell anything can be justified.

[mr_hat]

5. If hidden from one's committed partner, it is. Absolutely.

[damnraddem]

6. I think that it's ...

virtually cheating.

[spychoactive]

7. not even sure what constitutes 'cyber-sex'

is it on the same level as say a flirtatious exchange of hand-written letters?

i think the answer probably (for me) based on the level of emotional commitment to the other person...i am assuming you mean between two people, not cyber-porn...wow this is raising many questions in my mind...

is masturbation cheating?

not if you switch hands!

ok i'll stop...i'm very interested to see what others think...

one love
spike

[tom_paine]

8. False

It's just words on paper. No physical contact.

Not that I don't imagine signifcant others might get upset, but it is NOT cheating, IMHO.

[heypunk]

9. I think it's silly

why not just go out and get the real thing? :)

[soleft]

10. cheating is the eye of the one who feels cheated upon

It's a completely subjective experience.

[plcdude]

11. true

but what does your eye tell you?

[soleft]

39. From my point of view, a clandestine activity

that involves sexual intimacy and another person outside of my monogamist relationship is cheating.

[trof]

16. I agree completely.

Thank you.

[KensPen]

12. Gimmick Thief

Harrrrrrrrrumpfffffffff.

[VOX]

13. Depends upon the context of one's relationship...

and what the mutual understanding is.

If it's a casual relationship, then, no, it probably isn't.

But if you're in a committed relationship, it sure as hell is. It's not just words, and it's *beyond* fantasy -- you are exchanging sexually and emotionally charged thoughts and ideas with another, and interacting, etc.

If you are diverting your sexual attention and energy to someone other than your committed spouse/sig. other/partner in this way, I sincerely believe that it's deceitful and unfair to that person (aka "cheating).

[trof]

14. OK, let me ask a question.

And if you know me, you know that I am RARELY serious, but this time I am. This is not a confessional. Purely hypothetical. Not even "gender loaded".

Person A is in a distant city, on business, with Person B. One is hetero male and one is hetero female. They are both happily married. They both have kids, and love their families.
A and B have been friends ever since they met at work. They get along well, same sense of humor, etc.
This one night, they go out to dinner, have a few drinks, one thing leads to another and they wind up in the sack. It's a terrific night.

The next morning they have a serious discussion and wisely decide that this can't happen again. They feel no guilt, but know that there is just no future in continuing this side of their relationship. Let me say that again. They feel no guilt. They are two grown people and enjoyed what they did. They just know that it can't keep on.

They return to their homes, still no self-recrimination. No wails of guilty anguish and gnashing of teeth. Of course they never speak of this to another living soul. Who got hurt? The spouses? How?

[spychoactive]

21. if that's the entire scenario...

then, no one got 'hurt'

two people were betrayed, but knowledge of, and subsequent reaction to said event would be needed for 'hurt' to occur...

intersting scenario...you go on many business trips trof???

;)

[trof]

26. No longer.

;-)
Something similar happened to a friend many years ago, except this guy was just "eat-up" with the guilts. He asked me what he should do and I told him to clam up and NEVER mention it. He wasn't able to. Had to confess his "sins" to his wife and they were divorced shortly thereafter. Had anice little boy. Too bad.
Silence is golden.

[VOX]

40. The tree may fall in the forest with no one there...

Or you can stuff the gumball in your pocket when the clerk isn't looking, too. Good thought-question, trof. Here's my nickel's worth...

The people in your scenario have given away precious and very intimate gifts -- their affection, their sexual energy, their bodies -- to someone other than their spouses, with whom there probably is a mutual understanding that those aforementioned gifts will be shared with them exclusively.

I would argue that giving those gifts away is a form of deceitful behavior. To me, it's a form of "leaving," even if for a night, and a very negative thing to delve into, karma-wise.

But in the scenario, they don't know, and therefore they supposedly aren't hurt. However, there is the risk of bringing home STDs. And unfortunately, most humans aren't as "neat" as in your scenario -- people develop attachments quickly, so notes and phone calls are exchanged, etc. And most spouses are exquisitely attuned to the behavior of their husbands/wives, and they can often sense a shift, that something is off balance. Sometimes, the "leaver" will feel an eventual need to verbally share what's happened.

And then it gets messy. Very messy. The fact that the situation has the *potential* to be hurtful means something, IMO.

[trof]

43. I'll buy the tree, but not the gumball.

We're talking intangibles.
And if "love" enters into it, is there not enough to go around?
Can you love more than one person at a time?
It seems to me you could.

[VOX]

54. Absolutely, it is possible to love more than one person at once...

But humans being human, emotions will get messy in this situation, and (if, say, the number of people is three) it invariably will lead to one person dropping out of the unbalanced equation, or being left behind.

Simply put, it hurts -- and badly -- when your spouse/partner leaves you. The delicate gift of trust, if you and your spouse/partner value it, gets betrayed and broken. By straying, the "leaver" is, by action, telling the "leavee" that he/she is expendable and not up to the job of pleasing. It's a hell of a place to be.

If one's committed relationship/marriage is healthy and communication is good, straying isn't likely for either partner. Conversely, if there is tension, or boredom, or if certain needs are not being met in the relationship, then the likelihood of getting involved elsewhere increases.

I do see that some of this argument involves subjective judgement and personal moral valuations (exclusivity, right/wrong, purity of love, etc.). However, there are some generally accepted areas of conduct in our society regarding committed relationships. When you *really* love someone with ever fiber of your being (your "soulmate," or "true love," etc.), you will, consciously or not, invest a lot of emotion in that special person, and will naturally hope that they will not leave, hurt you or betray your trust -- this is basic human nature, just as you would feel this way about parent (not to get too Freudian), or an exceptionally close friend.

[foxy]

50. This doesn't sound much like a hypothetical on the cheating prospect

This is just a case of what to do next. I have seen this situation happen many times. The only true people hurt is themselves. Because they have to live with the truth every-time they look at each other at work. It's like reliving it again--and reliving the realization that they cheated on their significant others.

Now is it right not to tell--who knows. But hopefully it showed them that they should not put themselves in that position again.

And to answer the original thread--IMHO I think that as long as you and your SO discuss this virtual thing and agree that each one is ok with it then it is not cheating. But I would not understand it if it were done behind one's back. Then you are just admitting guilt.

Live life with no regrets--just think before you do anything.

Again just my opinions on the matter at hand.

[Sean Reynolds]

15. How can anyone get off on cyber sex?

[VelmaD]

48. easy...

it stimulates the most important sexual organ...your brain. :-)

[foxy]

52. Very true VelmaD

The brain is a dangerous organ. If used correctly you are correct it can be most enjoyable.

[onebigbadwulf]

17. As someone who hates monogamy I've looked into this

Clearly there is a scale of cheating, what is cheating for some couples is open and fair game for others. From my experience this is the general scale of cheating and everyone lies at a different point.

1. Innocent kiss on the cheek
2. Thinking about being with another
3. Masturbating while imagining sexual acts with another
4. Kissing another on the lips
5. Cyber sex
6. Phone sex
7. Groping/Touching
8. Oral sex
9. One-time Intercourse
10. Prolonged affair
11. Multiple one-time exchanges / multiple affairs



Personally, I find myself in a double standard for all of these things. Meaning, I think it's okay for me to do it, but not my partner. I'm a guy, I can't help it.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

18. "Cheating"

can only be defined by those who've made a commitment to each other.

Rules need to be established at the onset of the commitment, and changed or modified only by mutual agreement.

[trof]

20. OK, what if you break the rules,

and nobody knows that you did, or ever finds out, and you don't feel badly about breaking the rules?
Looks like nobody will answer my hypothetical above.

[onebigbadwulf]

23. I did answer

"Personally, I find myself in a double standard for all of these things. Meaning, I think it's okay for me to do it, but not my partner. I'm a guy, I can't help it."

[trof]

28. Oh, OK. Here's my point:

Say Miz t. goes off and has a righteous rut with a guy and she still loves and lives with me and I never find out. How am I gonna be pissed? Tryly, "what you don't know can't hurt you". It seems to me that to "cheat", somebody besides you has to know that you "cheated".

[Gingersnap]

37. but I think even if you haven't hurt another person

you've cheapened what your commitment means to you and cheapened your relationship. I don't think I could do that and not feel guilty, without taking some sort of distanced view of my relationship and minimizing, in my mind, the commitment my partner and I have.

Though, I don't know that telling the partner is the right answer, not if you want to stay with them. But I think it would be unfair and self-deceptive to engage in that sort of "cheating" again.

[plcdude]

27. calm down now it's all right

just let it go no one was hurt you are too much sometimes

[trof]

29. Well, I'm pretty calm.

Mostly.
;-)
Sometimes too much and sometimes not enough.
:shrug:

[populistmom]

19. It's borderline

Whatever that means?
I know something like that would bother my husband more than it would bother me and doing so would likely mean the relationship is in a bit of trouble to begin with. It's not cheating though at the same level as physical contact by any stretch of the imagination. That's a whole different ballgame.

[beyurslf]

22. Depends

Is it just cyber sex to get off or is emotional as well? If it is just to get off I would say no. (Just like masterbating the shower even if your married isn't "cheating.") If it is emotional as well, then you may be crossing the line into something more like cheating.

Of course, I think it depends on your relationship and boundaries set up also. Cheating to me is breaking the "rules" you and your partner establish. I have 2 friends who have been together for years. They both go outof town once a month or so. They agree that they can "play" those weekends. That is not cheating. They also agree that they "date" other people to find someone they might enjoy having over as an addition to their relationship sometimes. This is not cheating. HOwever, they are not to play with this person unless the other is there and on the weekends they are out of town they are not to have someone in their home. To do this would be cheating.

Seems weird to me, but they have been together for years so who am I but a friend who is single?

[Booberdawg]

24. Yes

[Bertha Venation]

25. here's an answer to all of these "is it cheating" threads:

If you think you're cheating, you are.

Don't look for an "out" for behavior that would hurt your partner.

[trof]

30. Bravo.

And conversely, if you don't think you are, you aren't.

[plcdude]

32. ay there's the rub

no pun intended.

[trof]

34. Watch out who you're rubbing, there.

<hee>

[grannylib]

46. I agree with the 'Bravo' but am not convinced that the converse holds true

Bush doesn't think he's lying, but he is...

[sendero]

31. It's cheating...

.... and there is no other way to look at it IMHO.

I have other "wacky" beliefs. I believe a woman developing emotional intimacy with another man is as bad as physical intimacy. In fact, it might be worse :)

[barbaraann]

33. Well, it seems that cybervirtualstealing is stealing:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=575&e=8&u=/nm/entertainment_china_hacker_dc

[davidinalameda]

35. I think so

[SOteric]

36. If you're engaging in 'cybersex' with someone other than

your significant other, then yes, it's probably cheating. It's being intentionally and blatantly sexual with another person.

If you don't have an SO, or you've an open relationship, then it's probably not cheating.

For me, this comes down to socialisation vs. intent to interact sexually with another person.

There's the issue which came up earlier of the strip club; all by itself, the act of going to a strip club does not, to my mind, constitute cheating any more than does viewing pornography. If I found Mr. Wonderful's stash of nudie mags in his laundry hamper, I wouldn't feel betrayed. I'd most likely thumb through them looking for better ways to drive him off the deep end sexually.

That doesn't mean that I believe these acts are always acceptable. Obviously, a lot of folks behave in reprehensible ways toward their partners and use strip clubs, cyber relationships, pornography and prostitutes in ways that are destructive to the relationship and demeaning to others.

A lot of folks use the internet, the telephone, all sorts of tools to do wrong and bad things. This does not mean that all usage of the internet, the telephone, etc. is inherently wrong and bad. It's based on this line of thinking that I say going into a strip club isn't inherently cheating. Other factors will determine that.

However, a person in a committed relationship who seeks to interact sexually with an individual outside the relationship is betraying the commitment. If there's no commitment, there's no betrayal. If it's viewing and titillation only in a limited sort of way, I don't see it as a betrayal. Cybersex and phone sex, on the other hand, is an intent to behave in a sexual way with another individual, and often in repeated ways.

[plcdude]

38. well said imo

I think even though this question was a tease it was also a reality that has been growing amongst a number of acquaintances of mine. You're pretty smart aren't you? Thanks for your thoughtful response. and what are you wearing right now? Just kidding.

[Heddi]

41. I think it is

if you're in a committed relationship (significant SO, spouse, etc), and you find the need to explore your sexual fantasies with someone else, then that's cheating.

You're with-holding truth from your Sig Other. You're telling someone ELSE what you should be telling your Sig Other. You're realistically imagining yourself being with someone, which is different than masturbating to a porn star---most likely, you've never personally exchanged fantasies with that porn star, told her in person what you'd like hre to do, and had her tell you what she'd like to do for you.

It's a misuse of an emotional commitment that you made with your Sig Other.

What if it wasn't cyber-sex. What if you were talking to a co-worker or friend and discussing your fantasies, getting sexual arousal from what you'd like to do, and what they're saying they'll do.

Cheating doesn't always have to be a physical act, and I think it's much more insidious when it's emotional.

Physical acts can at least be sort-of explained away (I was drunk, heat of the moment, we were fighting, etc).

Emotional adultery is much worse, IMO. I think I could forgive my husband if he had a one-night stand with someone else. But I could never forgive him if he told another woman that he loved them. I could never forgive him if the affair was long-term, with the same person. THAT is emotional, and I think that's a far bigger abuse than a physical act (even though it would take much time and thought to forgive him of cheating in any extent).

If you can't be honest with your partner about your sexual needs, and have to go beoynd the porn movies & nudie mags (which aren't cheating) to get sexual thrills, then you need to seriously re-evaluate why you're in a relationship with someone who gives you no pleasure.

I think the key is---if you have to hide it, then it's wrong.

If you're doing cyber-sex with your wife in the room, and she knows about it and encourages it, then hey. Everything's groovy.

But if you have to hide and wait until she's asleep, or use a computer at school/work, or chat only when she's not around, then you know you're doing something wrong, and are hiding it for a reason.

[geniph]

42. Do you hide it,

feel guilty about it, and is it a potential threat to your relationship? Then it's cheating, whether it's cybersex, phone sex, prostitutes, or a fling. If your partner knows about it and is okay with it, then it isn't cheating.

[Blue-Jay]

44. It probably is.

[grannylib]

45. Yes, no question. I think straying in your heart or in cyberspace is just

as bad as cheating in the real world; true, there is no chance of spreading STDs or an unitended pregnancy or any of that, but I think the consequences can be just as bad, particularly if you are caught...and I think affairs damage the one having them in their own way just as much as they hurt the one being cheated on.

[davsand]

47. It is a matter of character to me.

I am hyper careful about not giving my husband the least feeling that I would go outside our partnership. It is my personal decision made along with him. It is not for everyone--but it is how I choose to express my partnership with him.

Now, I DO have male buddies in RL, and I do have online male buddies. My feeling has always been that if I think my husband wouldn't feel ok about it I don't do it. Because he knows his feelings are a focus for me, he's ok with the fact that i go fishing with his old room mate. He's ok with me sitting on AIM talking to someone from my sim. He's been great about meeting DUers...

To me, the bottom line is it is about what is ok for him--nobody else. I gave him the promise that he was above all others in my life and I feel that I'm not worth much as a human if my word isn't worth anything.

Bottom line? Will I kiss another man in front of my husband? Sure--no open mouth stuff, but I'll give our friends a hug and kiss and feel fine about it. Would I ever sit in front of my husband and talk about taking my blouse off and gripping anther guy's _____? Probably not,I think my husband would not care much for that idea.

Just my 2 cents

Laura

[YNGW]

49. Learning to use the mouse left-handed is the trick.

nc

[plcdude]

51. you could learn to

use your left hand for something else and then your right would be free for the mouse.

[Robb]

53. By and large, this thread

...I have to say, has been a remarkably mature discussion about a subject that lends itself to giggling.

1) Nice job!
2) Who are you people?!?
:D

[amazona]

55. sure it is

If you're interacting with a real person then it's no different from phone sex -- it's cheating. You're involving yourself mentally and emotionally in another person's sexuality. (Love is not the only emotion. Lust and fascination can actually be more distracting from your primary relationship.) Relationships do break up over it.