I am going to kill my mechanic

[LeftyMom]

So far I've had the battery, alternator and alternator belt replaced, plus a tuneup and the damn thing still isn't working right. As a matter of fact, it's now not working at all, something it decided about half a mile from my house.

I'm hungry (didn't get the chance to grab groceries before it died suddenly) I'm hot and sweaty from walking home, and I'm worried sick. I can't get by without a reliable car, I don't live in a walkable or cyclable neighborhood and bus service here is a joke. This is the first real problem I've ever had with my car (which is coming up on ten years old and 140K miles) but it's not been fixed in three shop visits and I'm nervous as hell.

[reyd reid reed]

1. I know it won't help get your car running

But it might make you feel better. I'll hold him down if you want to beat on him for a while.

[sendero]

2. Why don't you tell us the details..

... make/model/symptoms - so we can make some wild-ass guesses as to the problem?

Why are you depriving us of our fun?

[Richard Steele]

3. Second that! We need DETAILS!

Kinda hard to MEDDLE properly without DETAILS....

[sendero]

4. Exactly..

... damn doesn't leftymom know that we derive immense pleasure from showing off our considerable diagnostic skills on the net?

Why does she hate DUers with wrenches? :evilgrin:

[LeftyMom]

7. I posted 'em downthread

Please, if you have any idea, share away. The only things I can think of are that the new alternator is faulty (he checked and says no) the new battery is faulty (I'll find out) or that maybe there's a short somewhere that's draining the system.

[sendero]

9. That last one..

... is bad, let's hope that's not it.

I dunno, from the sound of things it sure seems doubtful that the alternator is really charging.

Please post here when it's really fixed, I'm clunk, click and clack's cousin :)

[LeftyMom]

5. 97 Saturn SW1

The battery is not holding a charge, if charged up with the external charger it will run okay for a while and then the battery light starts flicking on and off, headlights and internal gauges start to go, acceleration is a joke, etc. This time it finally out and out died on me and won't turn over.

Also, there is an intermittently squeaky belt, but I'm not sure that's related.

[sendero]

6. First of all..

.. I spent about 18 months as a used car dealer. I learned to really like the Saturns, I sold more of them than anything else. They have their problems, but the problems they get are usually easy to fix.

That said - clearly your charging system is not working. Saturns are known for several failure modes, including alternator, fuel pump and that top right engine mount that makes the whole car vibrate.

All of the symptoms you mentions can definitely be the result of a non-charging electrical system. As the battery voltages drops off, stuff stops working - including the ignition module which can explain the poor engine performance.

It sounds to me like your alternator is still not working. It is possible, since you are hearing a squeak, that the belt tensioner is shot and so the belt is slipping instead of turning the alternator like it should. But if that were the case, you'd be having other problems as well - A/C would not work right and water pump might not either, causing overheating.

My guess- they put in another alternator but it's bad. It happens.

[Richard Steele]

13. Although I'm not familiar with your Saturn, I have had some...

...run-ins with the Alternator Gremlins; Sendero's advice sounds
dead-on.
It is sadly common to get a new replacement alternator that
just doesn't work. I once had 2 bad ones in a row for an '81 Ford.

[LeftyMom]

14. That's my first thought.

I had that checked when I brought it back in and he said it tested fine. I'll have him test it again.

[MoseyWalker]

15. Like I said also, I agree

It's likely the alternator.

I hope they treat you right when you take it back. If not, yell for the manager, the phone numbers of the corporate offices, and don't ever take your car back there.

There are too many thieves out there.

[LeftyMom]

16. They should

My Dad has a whole fleet of vehicles for work and several of our family's personal vehicles that all go to this shop. They have no incentive to do anything but treat me like a princess.

[MoseyWalker]

19. Have your dad investigate

if there has been a change in management or something similar lately.

It sounds as though they are really screwing you. A real mechanic, even one that is young and only trained to respond to computers, should know better.

If they are screwing you, they may try to screw the entire fleet.

[LeftyMom]

20. Family-owned place

The same guy (the owner) does all of our work. In the past I know Dad's taken cars in expecting them to have an expensive problem and he's correctly diagnosed and fixed something minor and solved the issue, so if he's screwing us over it would appear to be a new development.

[MoseyWalker]

22. I obviously don't want to assume anything, but

they should have known better, and any mechanic who cares about quality of service would not have caused you to go through that. I'm basing this response only on what I've read, so don't know everything, but I have to say.

They should have known better. I'm someone who grew up around mechanically inclined people, and I think I know better. That should tell you something?

[jobycom]

23. I wouldn't assume he's screwing you over, from the sound of it, but

that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider trying someone new, to see if they can figure it out.

It sounds like your mechanic tried the right things. If he tested the battery and the alternator output and found both lacking, changing them is logical. If something was going out on your charging system it could have overworked your battery to an early death, and given a weak reading on the alternator.

I work with two of the most honest mechanics in my city, and they make mistakes. It drives them crazy that every time something fails, they are accused of being crooks.

[jobycom]

21. Belt tensioner is a possibility.

I don't know Saturns. But I had a similar problem with Chrysler Town and Country. The belt tensioner froze, the car wouldn't charge. It didn't overheat and the AC still worked a bit, but the battery wouldn't stay charged.

Have them check it. It's real simple, they can tell in a few minutes, and it's cheaper than a new alternator. Way cheaper. ANd it's an odd thing that not all mechanics would think of at first.

DOn't panic over this. It's a charging problem. The belt noise sounds to me like the tensioner, but it could be something else (It could even by another system along the belt path, like the AC, water pump, etc, that is slipping and causing the belt to slip. Watch for other signs, like overheating, AC fading or not working, etc.). But it's fixable. Just a periphary system on the engine, not the death of your ride. Now that the mechanic knows it's not simple, he can fix it. Though you might consider taking it to a dealer, if this isn't a dealer. They may be more familiar with the quirks of their own product.

[driver8]

29. Take it to a place that specializes in electrical work.

Maybe they can find something that your guy is missing.

[MoseyWalker]

12. well, the first thought is a faulty alternator

If you still hear a squeaky belt and a squeal when you start the car, then the belt is obviously loose, and wasn't put on right.

Could also be a faulty battery, but I doubt it.

Does your car have a separate regulator? It's a small box that can be replaced easily, and might solve the problem. Not expensive, either, if that's the case. I'll try to see if you car has it, but maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can respond?

[sendero]

18. Yep..

... Saturns use a belt tensioner on the serpentine belt - it controls the tension of the belt which controls whether or not there is enough tension to prevent slippage.

If you hear squeals, upon starting the car or especially while its running, the tensioner is probably shot.

The tensioner is just a pulley with a strong spring pushing against the belt. It costs about $60 and labor to replace it is about $60 also. When it goes bad, the serpentine belt slips and all kinds of mischief results.

[Broken_Hero]

8. Just dont' leave any evidence...

:) Sorry...:( :hug:

[MoseyWalker]

10. How is it still not working right?

I would like to know so I may figure out if your mechanic is taking you for a ride, or maybe help figure out what's going on?

What is the car doing?

[LeftyMom]

11. See post 5

Thanks!

[Floogeldy]

17. I'd be pissed.

Your mechanic had better give you a refund/fix it for free.

}(

[Oeditpus Rex]

24. Did he specify that the new alternator is indeed new?

Reason I ask is, years ago I bought a rebuilt alternator at Kragen (that's Checker for you Easties) for my '66 Chevy, which ate 'em like M&Ms. It ate that one, too, and I took it to an old guy at an automotive electronics shop who showed me why. An old AC-Delco alternator has two diode bridges — one with three negative diodes and one with three positive diodes. (Diodes are transistors that function like switches.) The rebuilt one I got had six negative diodes, so it wasn't charging at all.

Ask your mechanic if the alternator is new or rebuilt. If you're not satisfied with his answer, ask him who his jobber (supplier) for alternators is. And remind him about your dad's fleet.

Beyond that, I'm stymied. As the guy who owned a stereo/CB store where I once worked used to say, "Electricity's weird." :shrug:

[LeftyMom]

28. I'm pretty darn sure. I'll double check the invoice.

I definitely specified new, having played the GM alternator shuffle game before with my Dad's old Camaro.

[BlueCollar]

25. I owned a 92 SL2

Best car I ever owned...except for the alternator. I replaced them like clockwork...every 2 years when they failed in the middle of a Texas summer.

Saturn alternators are awful and the chances of getting two bad ones in a row are actually pretty damn good with these cars/GM.

That being said, I agree with those out there who point at the alternator. I believe this unit contains the voltage regulator also so there may be a problem there. Either way, the alternator/voltage regulator unit is my bet and it should be replaced again...with a new unit...don't go for the rebuild as the price difference isn't worth the trouble.

Belt tension regulator may cause a squeal...not expensive to change.

Hang in there...:-)

[driver8]

30. My wife had a '93 Saturn SL1 (I think) that was a great car. As a

matter of fact, I would still be driving it if some asshole hadn't totalled it while it was parked in front of my house!!

Good luck!!

[Gold Metal Flake]

26. Lefty Mom...

You have a charging problem. The battery, alternator and the belt have been replaced. Most likely (but it needs to be confirmed) the alternator has an internal regulator. Is so, it has been replaced. If the regulator is external it is suspect.

If the reg is internal to the alt, then we need to start looking at the cabling. It is not unusual, although not typical, that a wire or cable may have broken inside of the insulation. If this were a Ford or VW internally regulated alt like I have I would suspect the sense wire. I would also suspect the battery cables and the connections related to it. I would want to trace the cable from the alt to the battery, which probably involves the starter siolenoid as a common tie point.

Dammit, if we lived closer this thing would be fixed.

[Shakespeare]

27. Can I help?

It's just been that kind of day. Random infliction of death sounds fun right about now.