Why is it that so many women's button-up shirts now are seemingly

[NewWaveChick1981]

made to fit men? :( They are very straight and make no allowances for female attributes, like curves or bust. :grr: I tried on blouses this past weekend because I was looking for a nice button-up silk blouse to wear with a suit. All the ones I tried at three different stores fit fine except through the bust. :cry: I even tried on some of 3/4 sleeve cotton ones (less dressy, but just for comparison), and they were actually better through the waist and hip area, but still too tight through the bust. I'm not huge-chested, but I'm definitely not flat either. Everything gapped at the bust (my sister calls that "gaposis"). :( I'm afraid that it's because of the way a lot of newer styles are cut.

Do any women DUers have any suggestions on where to find better-fitting blouses? (I know the male DUers would have a lot of suggestions. :P)

Thanks for any help you can give!

[DoBotherMe]

1. Not enough buttons on the women's

shirts/blouses. If the manufacturers would put more buttons on the shirts and put in bust darts the shirts would actually fit. I usually look for shirts with more buttons and the darts. Dana ; )

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/10012,47587_Austin-Reed-Striped-Shirt-Long-Sleeve-For-Women.html
Here's a nice style.

[NewWaveChick1981]

7. Thank you, Dana!

That's a great style. I appreciate you giving me the link. :D I'm going out to see what I can find there now!

[LeftyMom]

2. They're cut for tall skinny girls

I can't wear them either because I have hips.

[NewWaveChick1981]

9. Yep. That leaves me out.

Neither tall nor skinny. :(

[wildhorses]

3. where did you go? what size range are you?

I found some nice fitted blouses at New York and Company...this was back in Febrauary.

[NewWaveChick1981]

11. I went to Hecht's (now Macy's), Kohl's, and Belk.

Size range is a medium (anywhere from 8 to 12). The larger shirts I tried on look baggy except the bust, and I don't want that. I'd like a fitted (but not tight) style.

I'll have to check out New York & Co. I've gotten some nice sweaters from them in the past. :hi:

[bridgit]

4. they use the same pattern in china...

:shrug:

[NewWaveChick1981]

14. LOL

:rofl:

[bridgit]

32. by the by, i showed hubby your pics; now this guy is an artist...

a grand aficionado of the human form x( and loves what he refers to as "the kitty cat game", plus he knows the score. i'll ask him if a certain woman is pretty & he'll say, "yeah, she's fine" real flat...or some girl standing on the street corner everyone knows is clearly drop-dead, dripping with slippery seduction 1/2 hanging out of her; again what he refers to as 'pilati pants', cute little shoes, walking her dogs or whatever all blase with big ole kissy lips...and somehow he'll come back with...

"nice socks"

i'm thinking he doesn't want to start a fight, and maybe that is a good thing; but in response to your pics he opined,

"classic beauty..."

he has used the expression with the likes of, of all people; Jenny Jones, from that TV show, and Candice Bergen...so i'm thinking that's as good as we're going to get, sweets

:thumbsup: :hi:

[NewWaveChick1981]

35. WOW! Thanks, bridgit!

:blush: I'm really flattered! :) For him to say that means a lot. :D You can tell him thanks a million for me! :*

[billyskank]

5. Because fashion designers are not really interested in women who

look like women?

[NewWaveChick1981]

16. Yep. Just heroin chic.

:(

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

6. Because the breasts are supposed to be hanging out of the shirt

Not tucked into it. :thumbsdown:

[NewWaveChick1981]

17. LOL!

So you would not be opposed to frontless shirts? :P

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

21. I wouldn't be opposed if the shirt was on you!

:wow: ;-)

[NewWaveChick1981]

25. LOL!

I'll have to see what I can come up with.... :P

[Katina]

8. I end up going up a size

just so I can fit the girls in without them playing peek-a-boo. It's really annoying cause then, there is too much material around the waist. grrrr

[NewWaveChick1981]

20. That's my problem exactly.

If you go up a size, you have to contend with the rest of the shirt not fitting well. :(

[Katina]

27. or spending extra money

on tailoring..which I have done, but it pisses me off. Not every woman is an A or B cup.

[NewWaveChick1981]

57. Exactly. I'm a C cup, and manufacturers pretend like that

size doesn't exist. :P

[Katina]

60. and they presume that women with a

D cup are wearing size 20. I'm a 12/14, but I've always needed more room for my shoulders (former swimmer/diver) & bust. There have been many times when I've gotten the "right size" but have to wear the blouse open with a tank/teddy underneath. That's getting really old.

[NewWaveChick1981]

62. Totally agree.

I wear a medium (either 8 or 10, if the garment is sized that way), and I never have any problems with knit tops. It's the button-ups that suck. I've never been one to wear layered tops (i.e. tank or teddy with open blouse on top), but there are times I've resorted to it. And you're right---it gets old fast. :eyes:

[SoyCat]

65. And of course nothing fits if you're thin, a C cup, and have long arms.

[NewWaveChick1981]

66. I've got a friend like that...

and hers is worse---thin, long arms, and a DD. :yoiks: She can never find any button-up blouses that fit. All hers are knit and/or pullovers. If she finds a top that works, she holds onto it forever, because it's so hard to find any that fit.

Sorry you've got that problem. :hug: And welcome to DU, SoyCat! :hi:

[SoyCat]

99. Thanks for the welcome. When it comes to blouses/shirts, I don't have a

single one with sleeves that are long enough. I always have to roll them up or look totally ridiculous.

[China_cat]

10. It's because you aren't built like a famine victim.

Which is the only size acceptable to today's clothing manufacturers/designers, etc.

[NewWaveChick1981]

23. I'd like to give them a piece of my mind.

:grr: I'd actually buy their merchandise if they made it for ME! (And for millions of other women too.)

[China_cat]

54. That's why I sew.

Growing up with a bigger bust than your mother starting when you're 12 makes for a lot of fun in the clothing department. If I want it to fit, I have to make it myself.

Those skills also came in handy when I married a guy who's 6'5" tall and the only stores carrying pants long enough to fit him were way out of our price range.

[politicat]

97. On the guy pants thing...

I've got a tall one, too - 6'3 and quite a bit of leg. Also built like a linebacker. We couldn't find pants for him - seems that manufacturers assume that one shrinks if one gets portly.

We're buying from Union Jean company (www.unionjeancompany.com) because they go up to a 44 waist and a 36 inseam. Prices are reasonable, they're US made with union labor.

As for women's shirts, I've gone to buying a size larger, replacing the buttons and adding a couple of extra buttonholes, and putting darts in myself, or buying vintage. Women's clothes don't fit curvy girls.

[NewJeffCT]

67. That's not true

My wife is very slender and has a devil of a time finding decent professional business clothes that fit her. She can go into a store like Ann Taylor (or similar) and see several things she likes, but the only sizes they have are like size 10-12-14. If she finds something in a 0 or 2, it's almost like she hit the lottery, as it is a rare find.

I even started a thread on here several months back about where do slim women go to find clothing.

[China_cat]

69. Why's she shopping in the fat lady clothes?

Because that's what they consider 10, 12 and 14 now.

[NewJeffCT]

70. She's not

She looks in the petite section and sees something she likes and goes through the rack to see if there is anything her size, and they are inevitably size 10P and up... rarely lower than that.

Same in the non-petite section.

She does not go into the "Women's" Sections.

[China_cat]

74. She should come to Charleston, then.

There's a total of 3 places I can shop for clothes unless I want to go to WalMart...which I won't. If I were a 4, 6 or 8 there would be a lot more places but limited selection. If I was a 000 to 2 I could buy whatever I wanted and shop for the price I wanted to pay and it would be overload on selection.

I've even been told that I needed to go elsewhere just on entering a shop where I thought I'd purchase a gift for my grandmother...who was 4'9" and weighed 80 lbs. At the time, I wore a size 8.

[NewJeffCT]

75. I was talking about business-type clothing

What I mean mostly are women's business / professional types of clothes – business suit type of clothing. I'm not sure if I was clear above. Sort of like this:

[China_cat]

90. And I was talking anything you're looking for.

[One_Life_To_Give]

115. Petite Sophisticate

In my experience Petite Sophisticate has 0P and 2P usually on the rack. It's 14P that can be tough to find there.

[NewJeffCT]

116. I think they went out of business

All the Petite Sophisticates & Casual Corners (sister companies) around here closed up shop either late last year or early this year.

And, their headquarters was (is?) about 15 miles from where we live.

[Sanity Claws]

12. Try getting them tailored made for you

The manufacturers tend to have a certain body type in mind and the rest of us get ignored.
I'm average height (a shade under 5'4") with an average build, except a little bottom heavy. I have a tough time getting things to fit. Petites fit better but fewer stores are carrying them and the ones that do carry them, carry fewer brands.

[NewWaveChick1981]

28. I have considered that.

There's a good tailor not far from me. I might just have to pay him a visit. :)

I've noticed that about the petite section. Much less of a selection than ever before. :(

[joneschick]

13. it's because they go cheap at every turn

flat cut, no darts, cheaper to construct and no fit model required.
skimpy squared off pieces are easier and cheaper to cut and you can get more of them out of the fabric. Even if you sew, the major patter companies are going the same way!

[NewWaveChick1981]

36. Yes indeed. They won't be getting my money, that's for sure.

:(

[China_cat]

58. But if you've done enough sewing,

you know how to fit them even if the pattern doesn't. Shaping is really easy.

[Breeze54]

15. I lke the styles at Chadwick's

http://www.chadwicks.com/Department.aspx?DeptId=8561

They're having a big sale also! ;) CRAZY DAZE SALE!

And they have DARTS sewn right in!! :rofl:

Clearance!!!
http://www.chadwicks.com/department.aspx?DeptId=8389

[NewWaveChick1981]

37. Wow! Thanks, Breeze!

:hi: Gonna have to do some serious shopping now... And clearance is even better! :bounce:

[Breeze54]

49. Did you look at this button, white, long sleeve blouse?

http://www.chadwicks.com/product.aspx?PfId=90172&DeptId=8561&producttypeid=1&PurchaseType=0

I like it! ;)

[NewWaveChick1981]

51. That's gorgeous!

Thank you! I'm gonna call them instead of ordering online so I can get some info. I think that shirt might just work!

:bounce: :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

18. New York and Co. has great blouses. Very feminine with "darts"

and everything. It's where I get my daughter's shirts for school. They also are a bit more generous up top for cups that exceed B. :hi:

[NewWaveChick1981]

39. OK, that's two recs for New York & Co.!

:hi: Looks like I'm gonna have to make a mall run tonight!

I appreciate it very much. :D

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

19. I've had good luck at The Limited.

I used to buy most of my shirts at the Gap, but lately they've lived up to their name.

[NewWaveChick1981]

40. Yeah, I don't need Gap-osis either.

:P I'll check Limited when I'm at the mall tonight! Thanks!

[MiniMandaRuth]

22. It's because our stupid, male controlled society

wants women to wander around with their boobs hanging out, so they made the shirts all too tight right there so we'd unbutton them at the bust!

Sorry, I wear mens button-ups for band. My dads is the only kind that fits me, but only because I'm... yeah.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

26. Aren't most designers either gay or female though?

:shrug:

[MiniMandaRuth]

29. Eh. A little money

goes a long way :P

I'm just kidding. I don't really know why. Mens blouses with a big belt at the waist to keep them from becoming too long or too 'out-there' are cute. For me, at least.

[calico1]

24. I tried on a shirt the other day.

It was designed for female linebackers because I had a lot of shoulder left over. :eyes:

[NewWaveChick1981]

41. And what's up with that?

:eyes: I tried on one this weekend that was like that. OK, I'm not supposed to have boobs by their standards, but linebacker shoulders are OK. :yoiks: Good God, no wonder we can't find shirts that fit...

I mean, I'm not a freak---I have shoulders in proportion to my hips, and I have a waist. I also have boobs. What's wrong with that? :P

[calico1]

56. See, that's the thing.

I would love to wear shirts because I think they look classy. But I have boobs. Most shirts I try on are tight across the chest. And HUGE in the shoulder area. WHY??? How many women football players are there? It's also not the 40's or the 80's! So I don't get the big shoulder deal. I am normal looking too. (I think)!

Now if you go by what Clinton and Stacy say you should just have all your clothes altered. Well, that's just fine if you have the money. Some of us don't!

[Sequoia]

30. Sigh, I wish I had that problem.

Trade ya!

Heck, I can wear teen girl clothes. Want a flannel shirt? I just head over to the boys section at Sears.

[NewWaveChick1981]

42. My sister's built like you are.

We're from the same gene pool, but we are totally opposite body types. :P

[Sequoia]

68. My sister too.

She's younger and got taller/filled out (what's that?!!) before I did and the adults would pester me to eat my eggs because my younger sister was bigger than me. Like I should be ashamed or it was my fault. Even as a teen telling me I should just get a peanut shell with rubber bands as a training bra. Well, well who has the last laugh now as I head over to the boys department.

Seriously though, there aren't enough buttons and the top buttons are gone all together.

[flvegan]

31. Just wear them open (unbuttoned).

And remember to post (or PM me with) pictures post-purchase.

:evilgrin:

[NewWaveChick1981]

43. Yeah, you and Vash both...

:rofl: I'll see what I can do... :P

[LaraMN]

33. I have no clue what you mean...

:rofl:

[NewWaveChick1981]

44. Gaposis in action! LaraMN's partial boob!

:rofl: Damn, that's the exact issue here... And the fact that you posted your gap is prima faciae evidence...

:hi: You're gonna get a lot of PMs now...you do realize that, don't you? :P

[LaraMN]

45. Nah...

everybody knows I'm a good girl.
:dilemma:

[NewWaveChick1981]

47. Oh, yeah... Me too.

O8) I'm such a good girl...

:rofl:

[LaraMN]

50. .....

:rofl:

[billyskank]

71. ...

[Deja Q]

77. GAAAAAAHHHHHH!!

[NewWaveChick1981]

83. Drool cleanup on aisle 7....

:rofl: :hi:

[ForrestGump]

109. Actually, in re-evaluating this evidence, I

don't see that there's a problem, at all...













:hide:

[Mutley]

34. I have that problem, too.

I usually have to go a size larger for button-down shirts. x(

[NewWaveChick1981]

46. I hate going to a larger size, though, because the rest of the

shirt doesn't fit right. :cry: I'm gonna try the suggestions the other DUers made, and I hope they work!

[Shakespeare]

38. There's a boutique in NYC that sells shirts by bra size.

I wish I could remember the name of the store, but as soon as I saw it, I thought "well, that's fookin' brilliant--why didn't they do THAT sooner?!"

[NewWaveChick1981]

48. That IS a brilliant idea!

If you remember the name, please let me know! :hi: Thanks!

[Breeze54]

52. It's called: Rebecca and Drew Manufacturing

http://www.dailycandy.com/article.jsp?ArticleId=23396&city=1

snip-->

The room falls silent. C.Y.T. feels a breeze — and notices the buttons down the front of her shirt have bust open.

Literally.

Eliminate such tata tragedies with a shirt from Rebecca & Drew Manufacturing.
Their ingenious button-downs are designed according to bra size.
(Why didn’t anyone think of this before?)

R&D’s new shop, which opens today in the Meatpacking District, stocks everything from 32A to 38D.
The tailored tops are 100 percent cotton and come in short or long sleeve and regular or tall lengths.
Choose from lots of fabrics (solids, checks, and plaids) and accents like polka dots and grosgrain trim.

As an added safety measure, double buttons prevent unsightly peeping.

Guaranteeing that all your bases — not to mention your boobs — are covered.

To see the styles, go to: http://www.rebeccaanddrew.com/

To purchase online, go to www.neimanmarcus.com.

;)

[NewWaveChick1981]

53. Breeze, thank you so much!

:hi: :bounce: I'm so happy with your suggestion and the ones I got from other DUers! I'm gonna find shirts that FIT, dammit!

:* I appreciate it more than you know!

[Breeze54]

55. lol...I'm glad this place was mentioned too!!

Mother Nature was generous to me also!!! ;)

and even they're having a clearance!! :woohoo:
Although they seem sort of pricey but for a good fit, it's worth it, imho!

[ForrestGump]

59. I'm going to behave myself

Aren't you proud of me?

But, yeah, I have seen what you mean (not that I ever look at that part of a woman, though I did spend the last half hour scrutinizing Ms LaraMN's evidence in the interests of contributing meaningfully to this conversation) and darts would definitely do the job...I also suspect that the problem is not so much the manufacturers cutting cost corners by avoiding darts as it is designing for some ideal 'average' that's not out there all that much. We dudes can have a similar problem if we're long in the inseam but not immense around the waistline (and 'Big and Tall' shops don't help, in my limited experience, in that they're invariably more for the 'Big' and should really be called 'Pleasingly Rotund on up to Morbidly Obese' shops).

I sew darts in my Elvis jumpsuits (yes, that's right, ladies, I sew, I cook, I clean, I don't leave the toilet seat up, and I promise to use only my own mascara...) and it's simple enough that I don't know why they're not more widespread...for a man, even, it gives the piece that crisper style, accentuating the vee of his torso (if he has even an approximation of a vee), like a dress military uniform tunic. Not that most men ever wear shirts that tailored, even in formal situations (unless they're Chippendales dancers, maybe, or gay fashion models), but we also don't tend to have the problem of the line of our torso being interrupted by those bumpy things that I never notice.

I'll gladly come out there with my tape measure... O8)



EDIT: I got so carried away with visions of bumps (the disturbing thing was that they all included some dude, who looks like Fabio, ripping bodices here and there, exposing heaving bumpybits with long hair placed strategically to keep it all very much in the style of romance-novel covers) that I forgot to ask if it was possible for you to get hold of some nice, substantial shirts that fit your bust just fine but that are otherwise too drapey and big on the rest of your torso and then take them to a seamstress (or seamster, I guess) to have them sew in darts...think that might work? It'd only take a few minutes, too.

[NewWaveChick1981]

61. Keep that tape measure handy, FG....

:P I'm glad you saw LaraMN's illustration of the problem. :rofl: I think you're right that there's some vague "average" that is used for designing patterns. I'm impressed that you sewed your own darts into your costume---it's definitely helpful when trying to eliminate unwanted material or make things smoother. :D

Bumpy things you never notice.... Yeah, that sounds like you. :rofl:

[ForrestGump]

72. Oh, I keep it handy enough, right beside my bed

Or perhaps I've said too much.... :blush:

I'm glad I saw that illustration, too. I mean...wow...it was very...um...very...very illuminating, from an academic standpoint, of course....yes, that's what it was.

One thing's for sure, though: it's no surprise that the women of DU seem to have inordinate trouble fitting stock clothes, because 'average' is not a word that springs to mind when I think of DUers, no matter how bumpy their form (not that, as I have already stated and you should really believe, I notice such things)... :loveya:



Back to studying that picture to see if I can engineer a solution to this problem. Hmmmm...I think I need some more angles of view...

[Haole Girl]

63. Are you complaining or bragging?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

;)

[NewWaveChick1981]

64. ROFL!

:rofl: I'm complaining about not being able to find button-up shirts that fit. :P

I'm happy about what I have, though. I just wish clothing manufacturers were. :cry:

[sk8tenn]

113. Button-up blouse issues

I have the same problem. Actually, I had almost given up blouses for light silk sweaters and silk tees. However, I found one button-up blouse that works, if you can find it. Talbots sometimes has a silk knit button-up blouse. I got one at the outlet, and in my regular size, it had no gap because the silk knit fabric just eases over the bust. (And I am a C.) They don't make many, but I'd keep an eye on their webpage for more.

[NewWaveChick1981]

114. Thank you, sk8tenn!

:hi: I have a Talbot's not far from my house. I'll definitely check those blouses out!

And welcome to DU! :D

[sendero]

73. Cheaper to make..

.. without darts.

[Guava Jelly]

76. I think that $%&*((* (filthy)&(*^^& (perverted )%^&*

That would be my advice NWC :)
:hi:

[NewWaveChick1981]

80. Thank you. That was extremely clear.

:hi: :rofl:

[Guava Jelly]

89. Well we do have a connection..

##$%&^^^% you know what i am saying %*^((^()% sound fun hugh..shhhhhhhh!!! don't tell anyone!
.
How ya doing today Nwc??
:hi:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

78. Duct tape around the torso

That'll take care of those nasty offensive breast thingies... :rofl:

[NewWaveChick1981]

81. You mean like "Just One of the Guys"?

:rofl: :yoiks:

[NewJeffCT]

91. sure

and then when you need to prove you're a woman, you just have to rip your shirt open in public.

[dpbrown]

96. Does it hurt when you peel duct tape off your nipples?

Because that's the image that just entered my head...sorry!

Ow!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

98. You could always put pasties over them...

or bind them in cheesecloth first... :rofl:

[NewWaveChick1981]

102. OMG!

:rofl: Only if I could use the flower pasties.... you know, decorative and all... :rofl:

[NewWaveChick1981]

100. I don't think it'd be too pleasant.

:yoiks:

[NewWaveChick1981]

101. Yep. Very realistic.

:rofl: I don't have to prove a damn thing... :rofl:

[Marie26]

79. It's awful

I think it's cause they were made to fit size 0 models rather than normal women. I've actually gone to Lane Bryant to buy blouses - if I get a size or two bigger than my normal size, it avoids that "gaposis" effect.

[NewWaveChick1981]

82. Yes, it's awful.

:hug: It really sucks.

[tanyev]

84. Pants, too.

Cut super straight at the hips and waist, with straight pockets that go all the way to the side seams and frequently gap. I see a lot of women wearing them (you can hardly find anything else), but I haven't seen any that look good in them. Including tall thinnies.

:rant:

[NewWaveChick1981]

86. Gotta agree. Only Twiggy could pull that off.

I've only found one brand of jeans that could fit my ample behind, and it's not "super skinny" or anything like that. :P

[ForrestGump]

88. They're my new favorite brand of jeans

:loveya:

Do you think they come in my size?

[Bucky]

85. Yummm... "Female attributes"

[NewWaveChick1981]

87. Wipe up that drool, Bucky...

:evilgrin: :P

:*

[grannylib]

92. I buy bigger and then alter the rest of it to nip in more at the waist...

and no, I am not big-busted either.

[NewWaveChick1981]

103. That's a decent option.

:hi:

[Scout1071]

93. Try Ann Taylor and/or Ann Taylor Loft.

I have good luck there.

[NewWaveChick1981]

104. Thank you!

:hi: I will.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

94. I'm not guessing going naked is a viable option?

oh well :(

[NewWaveChick1981]

106. Well, at least not in public.

:hi: :evilgrin: You never know what might happen at my house, though.

[dpbrown]

95. It's all about the darts!

Believe me, I notice!

:P

[NewWaveChick1981]

107. Thank you for the tip...

:rofl: :hi: And thanks for noticing! :*

[buddhamama]

105. i empathize with you

i personally don't have that problem but i do know how difficult it is to find clothes that fit properly.

[NewWaveChick1981]

108. It's not fun.

:( :hug:

[buddhamama]

110. no, it's not

i get tired of having to visit the Juniors department, or worse still, kids department to find clothes that fit.
the styles are not "me" and i usually end up leaving disappointed.

even shopping in department stores that carry petite clothes it can be hard. and having to pay more because it's a petite size bothers me too.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[distantearlywarning]

111. I have this problem too.

I end up wearing a lot of really huge shirts just to cover the ladies. I also have broad shoulders for a woman (I do a lot of weight-lifting and I'm descended from Vikings), and I can't fit them into normal shirts. It's not a fat girl problem either - I had trouble buying shirts and sundresses when I was a size 2, because I was a C-cup. I have the same problem with pants. Either I buy them to fit the hips and there's an inches-wide gap at the waist that shows my underwear, or I buy them to fit my waist and can't get my butt inside them. It's like clothing manufacturers expect women to be like boys nowadays. It's not even about skinny or fat, it's about being shaped like a 2 X 4 or something. How many women do you know that look like that, skinny or fat? I don't know very many. So I bet 95% of us out there in sizes 2-20 are walking around in our ill-fitting clothes, exposing our underwear and our boobage for all the world to see. Or we're wearing circus tents or jeans that give us wedgies.

Just once, once, I wish the designers would work for me. I wish they would have the attitude that their job was to provide me with well-fitting attractive clothing, instead of making clothing that fits a few 6', man-like runway models and then expecting me to buy it or go naked. Clothing designers, you all can kiss my bootylicious ass (it's at least 10" larger than my waist, not that you can tell under my circus-tent shirt, and not that you care either, obviously)! You all suck!

[NewWaveChick1981]

112. Very well put!

:applause: