Calling All Grammar Police! This is the thread for you!

[theHandpuppet]

You know there have been times when you've had to sit on your hands or aim a wall-rattling, primal scream at the keyboard. Yes, 'fess up! This is your chance to vent those frustrations over those common mistakes in grammar you've seen time and again in DU posts. Don't be nasty but let's hear it -- what's bugging you, DU grammarians?

My pet peeves:

Non-words such as "bestest" and "stupidest". If you're the best at something then you can't be bettered. The best is the best, better than all the rest. Bush might be the most stupid person ever to plant his butt in the Oval Office, but he's not the stupidest. That's Bushspeak.

Hypocrisy is spelled H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y. There is no endless number of variations.

One cannot "loose" one's marbles but losing them is another matter entirely.

Text messaging shorthand; for example, U 2 R a Freeper!

Their, they're and there are NOT interchangeable.

Okay, what's your beef? :evilgrin:

BTW, my punctuation skills suck, but that's another topic entirely.

Edited to correct typo for which I shall be severely punished! :P

[Common Sense Party]

1. "your" and "you're" misuse.

It boggles the mind that high school graduates--not to mention college graduates--cannot figure out the difference.

[quinnox]

70. I have trouble with that one myself

[Common Sense Party]

92. your kidding me

Couldn't resist.

"your" indicates possession. Your comment, your post, your cat, your candidate.

"you're" is a contraction for "you are." You're kidding me. You're crazy. You're welcome.

They're even pronounced differently.

[quinnox]

118. Oh I know the difference

but in general I sometimes will write one when the other should be used by mistake.

[babylonsister]

2. People who spell 'entirely' the wrong way.

:rofl:

[theHandpuppet]

How do they spell it incorrectly?

I've never noticed that one. :D

[babylonsister]

See the last word in your original post.

:hi:

[theHandpuppet]

28. Ha-ha!

Yep, my fingers were flying faster than my brain.

I'm eagerly awaiting my punishment! }(

[BurtWorm]

12. See the last sentence of this post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1922249&mesg_id=1922249

;)

[Kukesa]

19. Now, that's a hoot! nt

[tabasco]

3. Stupidest most certainly is a word.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stupid

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. "Somewhat necessary"

Oooooh, I hate it. Necessity is a binary mode: it does not admit degrees. Same deal with "very unique," as in, "She has a very unique personality." Bzzzz. It is either unique or it is not. It can't be a little bit unique, or very unique.

[theHandpuppet]

37. Guilty of that, too

I know I've used those phrases on occasion. I shall try to improve.

[Auntie Bush]

99. Why? This is a message forum...not high school english class.

[damntexdem]

113. Go back to your desk and shut up ...

or we'll keep you after class!

[theHandpuppet]

114. Because I like to improve?

Yes, I actually enjoy learning and improving my language skills. I know I have a lot to learn and there are many people here who can offer that advice!

[Occulus]

121. Incorrect grammar and punctuation can; change the meaning of the sentence.

:evilgrin:

[damntexdem]

108. Your moderately-unique comment ...

was only slightly necessary.

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. I agree

While it is obvious why "best" cannot add a superlative ending (it is already transformed into the superlative of "good" on its own, it is completely unclear why "stupid" should not take comparative and superlative endings. At least, the OP doesn't explain why.

[Czolgosz]

159. The reason some prefer "most stupid" over "stupidest" is because some

multisyllabic adjectives can be amplified with "more" and "most" instead of the suffixes "-er" and "-est" on grounds that some adjectives are more difficult to pronounce with those suffixes (e.g., when describing a stone that is a more intense shade of amber it is easier to say "more amber" than "amberer" while describing a stone that is superlative in its turquoise coloring it is easier to say "most turquoise" that "turquoisest").

That is the origin of the preference, but this is not a rule of English grammar. If you have no problem pronouncing a multisyllabic adjective with the suffixes "-er" and "-est" the you should not hesitate to use those suffixes (but who is going to find "stupendousest" easier to say than "most stupendous"?).

[theHandpuppet]

55. Then it's the most stupidest word, ever

Had I used the word "stupidest" when I was first learning the rules of the language so many moons ago, I'd have had my knuckles rapped with a ruler. Stupid, more stupid and most stupid was the rule. "Stupider" and "stupidest" were grounds for detention.

[theHandpuppet]

59. When to use "which" or "that"?

Can someone explain this in a way that the rest of us can understand? I've been trying to figure that one out forever and am still stumped!

[alcibiades_mystery]

72. It's really a "fake" rule, but I'll explain it

You use "which" for non-restrictive clauses, and "that" for restrictive clauses. Oy, so grammary. I know.

So, what is a restrictive clause?

A restrictive clause restricts that which it is modifying:

The house that Grady built is worth $1,000,000.

Notice that the clause "that Grady built" is saying something about "the house." Notice also that you would lose some of the sense of the sentence if the bolded portion is removed: the house would no longer be specified. That's a restictive clause.

A non-restrictive clause, on the other hand, can be removed from the sentence without loss:

The house, which was built in 1978, is worth $1,000,000.

The bolded portion here is like "extra information." It is contained in a relative clause which could be removed from the sentence without loss of its meaning: The house is worth $1,000,000. Since it doesn't restrict the meaning of "house" (as does "that Grady built"), it is a non-restrictive clause, and therefore should take "which" rather than "that." Now, notice the slight change of meaning in the following:

The house that was built in 1978 is worth $1,000,000.

Say the two sentences out loud. See the difference? If you use "that," you are indicating that the following clause serves to identify the house you're talking about (restrictive clause). If you use "which," you indictae that the house has already been identified or sufficiently specified, and that you are merely adding extra information about it (non-restrictive).

Thus ends the grammar lesson for today. :-)

[theHandpuppet]

77. Thanks!

That's the best explanation I've ever read for that puzzler. I'm going to read through it several times to let it sink in.

[alcibiades_mystery]

88. But notice this sentence

"It is contained in a relative clause which could be removed from the sentence without loss of its meaning..."

Do I use "which" correctly here before the clause "could be removed from the sentence without loss of its meaning."

Is that a restrictive or non-restrictive clause?

[theHandpuppet]

117. Acckkk!

See, you had me all straightened out there for just a moment. Now my mind is twisting like a pretzel. Am I back to square one?

[damntexdem]

133. You should use a comma.

"It is contained in a relative clause, which could be removed from the sentence without loss of its meaning." The clause denotes what a relative clause is. It is very different from: "It is contained in a relative clause that could be removed from the sentence without loss of its meaning." The latter sentence claims that there are two types of relative clauses: (1) those that can be removed without loss of meaning, and (2) those that cannot be removed without loss of meaning.

[alcibiades_mystery]

138. I know

It was a joke.

;-)

[theHandpuppet]

152. You are a baaaaaaad boy!

But you knew that, didn't you? :evilgrin:

Or should that have been a "though" and not a "but"?

[KoKo]

137. Interesting exercise... Unfortunately with the internet, and the loose

grammar that appears all over the Cables (CNN, etc.) and hip hop speak, slang speak,etc. ...we all are so innundated with what at one time would have been considered atrocious grammar, pronuniciation, spelling and usage and idiomatic lapses that one wonders how folks can even go back to some kind of basic rules.

This post of mine shows terrible "proper use." And I used to work in Textbook Publishing (way back) and yet I often post dreadful mistakes here on DU. Sometimes I think I've forgotten all I was taught and knew "way back when." Somehow it doesn't seem to matter anymore. :shrug:

It's sad but I think grammar, punctuation (expecially on Blogs where punctuation suffers because it seems to "distract" from clean type) are all evolving into something very different from what would have been standard "NYT's" standards of even fifteen years ago.

[theHandpuppet]

155. I know how you feel

I KNOW my command of the rules has actually deteriorated over the years and it's downright maddening. I'm acutally enjoying this thread because to me it's like taking a refresher course.

[KoKo]

174. I think that our Language Rules are evolving into something very different

these days. I think we have loosened the bonds of strict sentence structure and become more "poetic?"

And, that the internet protocol doesn't like lots of "FULL CAPS" (considered screaming or shouting), whereas to folks, like me, it means "emphasis" but looks like (as one poster criticized a post of mine because I had so many "full caps" that it looked like "salad")

I think we are on the cusp of a new way of speaking to each other. Look at the "Stepford Women" on CNN/MSNBC/CNBC and look at how they almost shout at guests "Yo!..and Waddah you think about what Joe said!"

The way we address each other doesn't involve "defference" for ones "personhood" but to treat everyone as if you are interviewing them on "MTV!"

You can see I have a terrible habit of overusing "quotes" and ........'s elipses in my posts.

I don't know...I just can't be a "hardliner" about grammar and punctuation at this point in my life when we are trying to get the BUSHIES OUT!!!!!

But, then...I always loved poetry...of the "freeform" variety and the phrase "literary License" is dear to my heart. :shrug:

Still..rules are important or we end up with CHAOS!

[sweetheart]

209. you're really right about ben hur

As for the internet redefining discourse, agreed, indeed,
and does that not affect poetic force, some weed, on speed. ;-)

It is redefining the formality of poetry, some need, wear tweed.

But i would love to see a remake of ben hur, exept where charleton heston is a muslim, and
we rewrite "jew" to muslim and roman to american. Then, when the tiles are pushed off
on to the governor of judea in the beginning, it is some roof tiles falling on a humvee
patrolling the streets of the occupied territory. And the full irony of a rewrite
would win another batch of academy awards.

It IS the middle east strategy, combined with the story of jesus christ and some horse racing!

[KoKo]

213. Ha! Good to see you "let it rip" with that one!

:D loved the little bit of eecummings...with the twist on ben hur....

[damntexdem]

125. Here's an explanation I wrote three decades ago:

Which versus That

The rule is that that that that is essential to the meaning of what is modified needs no comma in front. By contrast, a which, which which, which only adds additional information not essential to the meaning of what is modified, does need a comma before it, should not be substituted for a that.

Jim Swan
June 1976

[Czolgosz]

150. Your educator was the stupidest person if he rapped your knuckles for

using the word stupidest.

Some prefer to amplify multisyllabic adjectives with "more" and "most" instead of the suffixes "-er" and "-est" simply because the words with those suffixes are more difficult to pronounce in some circumstances (e.g., when describing a stone that is a more intense shade of amber it is easier to say "more amber" than "amberer" while describing a stone that is superlative in its turquoise coloring it is easier to say "most turquoise" that "turquoisest"), but this is not a rule of English grammar.

Also, the prohibition against ending sentences with a preposition is not a rule of English grammar (it is a rule of Latin grammar). That's a phony rule we should do away with.

[Liberal Dose]

4. 1. Too, To and Two 2. misuse of apostrophes and commas 3. There is no such

word as IRREGARDLESS! UGH!!!! :hi:

[MrCoffee]

7. Irregardless...nails on the blackboard of my anal-retentive soul.

[LSparkle]

43. But I think I've heard that "IRRESPECTIVE" is a word ...

People probably MEAN that when they misuse "irregardless."

[MrCoffee]

52. I know what they mean...it's what they say

Irregardless.

Supposably.

Pacifically.

They drive me completely insane. Which is totally irrational, I know. But still.

[lukasahero]

91. My husband says supposably

It drives me insane as well. He spells it supposedly. He just says it wrong. It makes him sound stupid and he is not even remotely so. Somteimes it's an old habit that's hard to break.

I love the "nails on the chalkboard of my anal retentive soul". That's a keeper and dear lord can I relate.

[question everything]

123. Of course it is

we put a negative on a word by either "ir" at the beginning, like your irrespective, or by adding "less" at the end - homeless.

Irregardless grates on me, too, because it is a "double negative." And it bugs me even more that it has now been accepted in all the dictionaries... even on this DU spellchecker.

[damntexdem]

134. Eww, I don't want to dwell on that metaphor.

Not even the n___s on the b________d part, much less the rest.

[theHandpuppet]

10. I've always wondered about the word "irregardless"

How did that get started, anyway? It seems to be a very common mistake. I know I've bungled that one myself.

[Liberal Dose]

15. I suspect that "irrespective" got mixed up with "regardless"

:shrug:

[theHandpuppet]

41. Makes sense.

Now can someone explain when to use each word?

[reichstag911]

68. Pretty much interchangeable. nt

[damntexdem]

139. But is it the tympantithesis of melody?

And I don't want to see any insinuendos about Cole Porter's use of the English language (nor Mayor Daley's either).

Well, those are my two favorite puttogether words, and I love them irregardless of who coined the latter one.

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. But there is an "Irregardless Cafe" here in Raleigh.

It's beyond my budget, however.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

135. Irregardless Is Absolutely A Word.

It may be loathed by some and mocked by others, but it is a word though it is classified as a non-standard one.

Furthermore, when someone says something isn't a word they generally are almost always wrong in that premise. One merely needs to reference what the definition of 'word' actually is.

[kay1864]

249. It may be a word, but it's not an *accepted* word.

i.e., it's used in speech by the ignorant, but its use in writing will get you slapped down by an editor or English professor. And its use in speech will often get you funny looks. :+

[kittykitty]

212. apostrophes are probably the most misused punctuation marks

anywhere! Not necessarily on DU, but in society. Every home made sign maker seems compelled to add an apostrophe to words ending in "s"! "Fruit - Apple's pear's grape's"

[unpossibles]

5. while I agree with some of that

I sometimes use words like "stupider" on purpose. Their's no weigh Im' a hugh moran I promis.

[ThomWV]

6. Too, Two, To

Need I say more?

[Liberal Dose]

8. Yes. Your and you're, their and there, etc.

:hi:

[Occulus]

128. And They're. n't

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Did you mean to misspell entirely?

Frankly, I think people who get all hot and bothered over common grammatical mistakes, especially on internet message boards, are a bunch of squares.

[Liberal Dose]

17. Zero tolerance for ignorance. People who choose to remain ignorant deserve

no respect.

[theHandpuppet]

22. Huh?

Entirely. What's the problem?

Come on now, very rarely do folks get corrected for their grammatical mistakes. This is just a light-hearted "venting" thread for those of us who are a bit anal retentive.

Edited to add: Ah, I see now. My second use of the word "entirely". That was a typo. Six lashes for me!!! :evilgrin:

[Liberal Dose]

25. Make it 7 and you've got yourself a deal

[theHandpuppet]

45. Oooh, you're a friendly one!

:D

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. you spelled it "entriely." Last sentence.

And that's my point. Everybody knows how to spell "entirely" and they know the difference between "your," "you're," "it's", "its," "two," "too," etc. They just make mistakes. Sometimes they are typos, sometimes they're misspellings, but they're all simple mistakes that everybody makes.

So when people go around pretending that somebody is "stupid" or "ignorant" for making them, they look pretty foolish. Particularly when they make similar mistakes themselves.

[BlooInBloo]

32. People who treat typos as equivalent to a conceptual error...

... also bug me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

80. The less forgiveable conceptual error, IMHO...

Is the assumption that if somebody misplaced "you're" with "your" that they didn't know the difference, as opposed to just making a simple mistake.

All writers make mistakes. Many of the best and brightest make many mistakes. That's why editing is a profession.

[BlooInBloo]

96. "your" and "you're" isn't a typo - I'm ok with the coals for someone...

... doing that... even for myself.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

106. No, it's a simple misspelling.

Somebody typing fast can easily write one when they mean the other.

[Oeditpus Rex]

104. You make a similar assumption

in that those who make such errors do know the difference. But if you spend much time on internet forums, you know this to not be the case. I know many at DU who repeat the same mistakes or same types of mistakes. By that, one can safely assume they do not know the difference, or at least have some sort of block on the word, etc., in question. (I know one very intelligent DUer who consistently writes "thier" and "wierd.")

I am an editor, and there's a lot more to editing than cleaning up typos. A good editor spots consistent errors and acts as a teacher to correct them at the source.

But, to answer the OP's question, my peeve of late is unnecessary apostrophe's — like that one. As a Certified Grammar Nazi, however, I have several.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

109. Yes, I make that assumption.

I assume that most people on these boards are adults with at least high school educations and were taught the difference.

[theHandpuppet]

141. Since you're an editor, may I ask you a question?

I have a question about a sentence in my original post, one which has also bothered a couple of DUers participating in this thread. I wrote, "There is no endless number of variations." Now I know that "sounds" wrong and I had wondered about the phrasing of it myself. How should I have written it? Thanks!

[Liberal Dose]

183. How about, "There are no variations."

I only edit technical documents, but I do a pretty good job of translating Engineer to English. :hi:

[karlrschneider]

186. I agree with you, and for some of the same reasons.

I have written many end-user/instruction/repair manuals. I started to query the OP about that
phrase but couldn't decide what he/she actually meant to say; that is, it appeared to me to imply
either 1) There are no variations (as you point out), meaning there is only one correct way, or 2)
that there appear to be MANY variations - incorrect, but commonly written.

;-)

[theHandpuppet]

196. Yep, it was very clumsy

I appreciated the fact that several DUers offered up alternatives which were much more clearly stated than my own. This example serves to underscore how important it truly is to communicate clearly and how sharpening those skills is an ongoing process. In a day and age when so much of our communication takes place on forums such as these, we have to know how to craft our ideas into words. It's often difficult to gage tone but if an idea is well-expressed it lessens the chance of miscommunication.

[theHandpuppet]

192. Excellent!

A perfect way of stating it with an economy of words. Thanks!

[cool user name]

226. Shouldn't "is" be changed to "are?"

Since you are denoting a plural?

Anyway, why do the British but their quotation marks inside their punctuation?

Example:

He said, "I don't like you"!

I also would like to know if it is supposed to be "insure" or "ensure."

If they are both correctly spelled, then which to use when?

[Liberal Dose]

35. I disagree. Those are not all typos. With electronic communication being

used for LTTEs, etc., it's important to use proper grammar and punctuation in order to be taken seriously.

[theHandpuppet]

46. Proper punctuation is my downfall

It's gotten worse over the years, too. I need a refresher course.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

50. Funny that.

I've a hard time taking grammar nazis seriously.

LTTE's get edited by a professional editor, just like the rest of the newspaper. Mistakes that get through are his/her responsibility, less so the original author's.

[QuestionAll...]

69. Overseas Visitor spoke in broken English

but I took his posts very seriously.

He was one of The Bestest. He was a sad poet, a wise heartbroken man.
I miss him terribly.

[theHandpuppet]

73. Is he gone?

He was a favorite poster of mine. Did he leave?

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jamastiene]

86. TS'ed. Ask the admins why. n/t

[KoKo]

Please...can you

PM me about this? Your profile is disabled...but mine is not. I'd like to know about this... Thanks!

[theHandpuppet]

71. Um... not everyone does know the difference

In fact, I'm guilty of many of the mistakes folks have pointed out in this thread -- when to use who or whom, using the word "irregardless", etc. I don't mind admitting it nor the fact that I'm terrible at punctuation. That doesn't make me or anyone else stupid or ignorant but I don't see anything wrong with always trying to improve -- myself included! I've learned a few things just within this thread and hope to pick up a few more tips, especially if someone can explain the rules of "that" and "which" for me! ;)

[quinnox]

11. my list

When Duers intentionally misspell words like "Huge" and others.

"Noone" this is a common internet misspelling - there is no such word. "No one" works as does "none".

Duers who love to swear in every other sentence thinking they are being cool.

Putting ALL CAPS in the subject line trying for more attention.

Oh yea, another post pointed out another that really gets on my nerves - "Loose" used instead of "lose" - how hard can it be to understand the difference?!

[Missy M]

49. The first time I saw "noone" I couldn't figure out what it meant...

and the thing that bothers me is "I could care less", which means you do care. The correct way is "I couldn't care less".

[cool user name]

227. As a child, I thought about that too!

I couldn't understand why someone would say, "I could care less!"

Well, yes, then you are implying that you could care less thus you care.

I knew this when I was at least 7 years old and I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Thanks for sharing that as I thought I was the only one who recognized that.

[bowens43]

13. 'less' and 'fewer'

[efhmc]

76. Does the use of this word have to do with the amount spoken about or

in what concept the word is used?

[yewberry]

216. It has to do with the material in question.

"Fewer" is only used with a referent that is numbered. (Fewer days, fewer sandwiches, fewer dollars.)

"Less" is used when you're talking about amounts which aren't numbered. (Less money, less water, less rice.)

Weird, huh?

[efhmc]

252. Ah, so one is for abstract amounts and one is for concrete amounts.

[BOSSHOG]

14. Oh come now

Surely one can "loose" their marbles by dumping them on the deck; and let them roll about.

What's my beef? Ribeye, medium rare!

[BurtWorm]

16. My main pet peeve is the use of Democrat as an adjective

even by people on DU. "Democrat Party" for "Democratic Party." Etc.

[Liberal Dose]

21. Using Democrat in that manner is an insult. Who started that crap, anyway?

Limpballs?

[leftchick]

29. some repuke somewhere

probably oxyboy.

[Liberal Dose]

40. I am especially irked when the little cowpoke uses it, and then smirks

like he just got away with doing something naughty.

[LSparkle]

47. I think it was Frank Luntz (the Dunce)

What a "wordsmith" he is!!!

[BurtWorm]

57. He and Newtie popularized it, but it's been around longer.

I think it's where the term "rat-fucking" comes from. ("rat" as in "DemocRAT.") :eyes:

[BurtWorm]

56. McCarthy used it, according to Hedrick Hertzberg

in a recent New Yorker piece, and William Buckley took him to task for it.

[theHandpuppet]

33. Who started that, anyway?

Methinks it must have been GOP operatives jealous of the fact that there IS only one party today that represents democratic principles!

[RaleighNCDUer]

48. Those who so use it here

are usually trolls.

[damntexdem]

144. Oh, that's mostly done by members of the Republic Party.

And we can't expect too much of them.

[Nevernose]

217. It's some code out of the wingnut-o-spheere

It started a couple of years ago.

[juajen]

20. You got it . It drives me nuts.

I have stopped correcting people, however. I made the mistake of correcting someone who has a disability. Wow, never again.

One of my pet peeves is "anyways". Of course, it should be the singular, not the plural. Unless you're counting how many "anyways" there are in a paragraph, I'm not sure it is ever correct to say "anyways".

Also,"your" for "you're". I'm not sure why contractions are so difficult for people

Another pet peeve is simple misspelling of words. We do now have a spellcheck. I wish it were used more often.

edited for: spelling

[Speck Tater]

24. There is NO SUCH WORD as "alot"

If you're going to glue the article to the word that follows it then in addition to "alot" you should also be writing "afew", "acouple" and "awholebunch".

It's "A lot of good people" NOT "Alot of good people".
It's "A few pounds of sugar" NOT "Afew pounds of sugar".
It's "A couple miles to go" NOT "Acouple miles to go."

[Liberal Dose]

26. Oh, that's a good one

[immoderate]

206. That's my peeve, and you covered it well.

:)

--IMM

[BlooInBloo]

30. "Should of" is an excellent indicator of idiocy...

... but my personal beef is with people who misuse "begs the question" or any of its conjugatory variants.

I have no problem with "internet-ese" - i.e., things like "u r 2 sensitive about inet-ese" and the like.

[Riga Marole]

145. Subjects and verbs

WRONG: There's too many beans in the pot.

RIGHT: There're too many beans in the pot.

Re "should of":

WRONG: Should of went.

RIGHT: Should have gone.

[athena]

179. Yup. "Begs the question" and "the thing is is that".

"Begging the question" refers to a form of circular logic where the proposed proof for a statement assumes the truth of the original statement. It is not the same as "raising the question". For example, saying that the Bible must be true because it's God's word begs the question.

And I can't stand "The thing is is that ...". Why can't people just say, "The thing is, ..." or "The thing is that ..."?

[BlooInBloo]

204. I know what begging the question is, but thanks for the confirmation.

:rofl:

[athena]

250. I wasn't implying that you don't know it.

Sheesh.

[Nimrod2005]

31. I think you are misunderestimating DU people...by Alot!!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. "...but he's not the stupidest."

Which is precisely why I would apply it in this case.

When referring to a person with the vocabulary of a five-year old, using a five-year old's vocabulary is appropriate.

Besides, he IS the stupidest.

[longship]

36. "to" and "too" are not interchangeable either.

And I really hate it when people confuse "their" and "they're". The two are entirely different things.

Here's another one: "Do to the situation...." Arrrgh!!! Wrong!!!
It's "Due to the situation..."

[damntexdem]

148. And if someone uses 'do to the situation' for 'due to the situation' ...

what will that do to the situation?

[Warpy]

38. Apostrophes used in simple plurals

You know, like "plural's."

Other than that, pedantry drives me nuts, especially my own.

[reichstag911]

74. Like this?

[Jed Dilligan]

93. Yikes!

Have they fixed the error yet or can I still go to my local Borders and see it with my own eyes?

[reichstag911]

243. I can't imagine they'd pull it;...

...most people wouldn't even notice it and realize it's wrong. Had I sufficient interest and time, I'd check the NYTimes to see if (Ma)Kakutani got it wrong in the original.

[LSparkle]

39. "IT'S" is a contraction, not a POSSESSIVE (correct form: ITS)

I've seen even LEGAL DOCUMENTS get this wrong and it drives me CRAAAAAAAZZZZYYY!

[Arugula Latte]

100. Testify, Sister!

:woohoo:

[Riga Marole]

101. Apostrophes and pronouns

All incorrect:

their's
our's
her's
it's
your's

[AirmensMom]

119. That's my pet peeve.

I've seen it in newspapers and professional papers as well.

[damntexdem]

149. Its a sine of the thymes.

Crazy thymes.

[DireStrike]

154. Wait a minute, clarify this for me

True of false - There is a case where "it's" is correct.

[yewberry]

218. True--when it's a contraction for "it is"

but never when you're indicating a possessive.

We don't use an apostrophe with possessive pronouns--his, hers, and its--and that confuses a lot of people!

[cool user name]

229. I've always wondered:

When to use the apostrophe for a possessive proper noun such as:

Mrs. Goss' homework is difficult.

Now, I think that is the correct way but I have seen it this way as well:

Mrs. Goss's home work is difficult.

I've seen it (example of) in professional documents and I couldn't tell if that was a mistake or if my whole grammar world was falling apart.

[yewberry]

236. Oof. That's not "right or wrong."

That's a style question.

It kind of depends on the field in which you're working. APA style and MLA style don't always agree on things like apostrophes and serial commas.

For example, APA style says you should add "'s" after a proper noun unless it sounds like /ez/.
http://www.uhv.edu/ac/grammar/apostrophes.asp

MLA style says that you shouldn't use the "'s" with a proper noun.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/aegean/6354/grammar.html#Apostrophes

It really depends on the field. I generally hold with Chicago style, as that's the one that newspapers and magazines tend to follow.


Crazy, isn't it?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

44. The man THAT stole the car.

The car THAT was parked there was a thing.
The man WHO drove it away was a person.

[LSparkle]

51. Miuses of "WHO" and "WHOM"

"WHO" is the subject of a clause; "WHOM" is the object. Also "WHOEVER" vs. "WHOMEVER".

[spanone]

53. Maybe it's the 'thoughts' that count.

[LSparkle]

54. You LEND someone money; that act is a LOAN

Although I think that using "loan" as a verb has become so commonplace as to be acceptable (even though not technically correct).

[fishwax]

177. loan as a verb has been standard american english for a while now

I think there are actually very few who would object to loan as a verb in American english. However, if you're talking about a concept rather than a physical entity, you must use "lend," even in American English. (Friends, countrymen, lend me your ears.)

On Edit: American Heritage has a usage note about it ... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loan

[pagerbear]

58. Yes, you can loose your marbles

Just don't do it where I'm going to be walking.

[karlrschneider]

195. Doesn't that imply you can "tight" your marbles?

yikes

[alcibiades_mystery]

60. These are minor silly problems

Yes, they do infuriate me, but they are relatively unimportant. "Should of" is not a sign of idiocy; it is, rather, the sign of a slipped translation between oral and written forms.

The real problem you see on DU and other message boards is not "loose" and "lose," however annoying that might be, but the complete absence of sentence shape. People used to take pride in a written sentence. People used to distinguish the written sentence from its oral partner. People used to understand that the shape of a sentence, the location of its clauses, the purposeful arrangement of its space - all of these - are not only aides to understanding, but also fundamental to the feel of written language, to writing's aesthetic qualities. ...with larrons o'toolers clittering up and tombles 'buckets clottering down. Now hardly anyone on this grammar police thread will know what a periodic sentence is without googling it, much less how to form one. Parallel structure is damn near extinct; where it appears it is generally flawed, where correct generally limp. Harmonious sentence shape indicates a harmonious thought. Its utter absence - the sentence in chaos, the empire of paratactic style triumphant - suggests the incoherence of our world at best, the severe breakdown of thought at worst.

[lukasahero]

110. That was a pleasure to read

Didn't understand half of it but it felt good and calm in the reading. ;)

"People used to understand that the shape of a sentence, the location of its clauses, the purposeful arrangement of its space - all of these - are not only aides to understanding, but also fundamental to the feel of written language, to writing's aesthetic qualities"

A lost art.

[Spider Jerusalem]

160. I think that the reasons for that are probably somewhat complex...

and, I should imagine, not unrelated to the proliferation of communications media such as television and the internet. Due to the influence of these media and increased pace of modern life even the literate, including many of those with university educations and advanced degrees, whom one would expect to be able to competently express themselves, no longer have the time nor the leisure to read much. Oh, they read the news, and perhaps magazines, and maybe a few novels of the popular fiction variety, but the majority of these use language in a manner that scarcely approaches competent craft, let alone art. And working in language is like working in wood, or oils; one must have not only an understanding of one's medium, one must also study the work of countless OTHERS to gain a deeper sense and appreciation of the results one may achieve with it. One must understand the mechanics of language to be a truly GOOD writer, but one must also read millions of words written by others.

In a world where where popular entertainment and mass media emphasise content over form and the sense of communication over the style of it, and where perhaps one person in five could write a coherent, grammmatically correct, well-ordered and properly structured paragraph without the aid of Microsoft Word's spelling and grammar check, is it any wonder that the quality of written communication is in decline?

(Of course, given the rapid-response nature of an internet discussion board such as this, it's also a bit silly to assume that people are going to take the time to craft lapidary sentences and elegantly structured paragraphs in the things they post here.)

[karlrschneider]

191. I don't believe I have ever seen "lapidary" employed as adjective

;-)

[Spider Jerusalem]

201. No?

Formal, chiselled, precise, worthy of being engraved in stone (in the sense of 'lapidary prose', etc).

[Rosemary2205]

61. Ur

My English skills are so bad. My spelling is just awful and I tend to make up words. But God help me, if I see "ur" instead of "your" or "you're" one more time I will probably yell at the monitor.

[Ringo84]

62. MISUSED APOSTROPHES

There are so many people these days who don't seem to know how to use apostrophes - which they'd probably spell "apostrophe's", which is WRONG!

I like the Grand Theft Auto franchise. I was reading a user guide where some genius was talking about a car included in GTA - the Cheetah. Except he misspelled the multiple form of Cheetahs as "Cheetah's", which is WRONG!

"70's", or "1970's" is wrong also. It's "70s" and "1970s", because neither form is possessive.
Ringo

[conflictgirl]

189. Absolutely! That's my biggest pet peeve.

I see it a lot on signs around here. Like "fresh smoothie's here!"
:grr:

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

219. People sprinkle them on text like croutons on salad

I'm the kind of old crank who takes out a pen and corrects store signs. Doesn't help, I'm sure. But it makes me happy.

"PEOPLE" who can't Use "quotes" or caps Correctly should be "taken out and Shot."

:evilgrin:

[conflictgirl]

222. On the improper use of quotation marks..

There was a sign I saw a while back that said:

100% "Real" Hamburgers

It scared the crap out of me.

[BurtWorm]

63. Atheist, not athiest.

That one grates.

[Kookaburra]

64. Here's a spelling mistake I catch all the time

It's definitely -- not definately.

[Karenina]

89. That one is annoying

but what I find worse is people responding to posts with correct spellings who NEVER NOTICE the inconsistencies. The subject line says CHENEY. The post responded to says CHENEY and the poster types CHANEY. :banghead:

[RebelOne]

65. There, their and they're drive me crazy, not to mention

the misuse of it's and its

Not to mention lose and loose, which also drives me up a wall. I could go on and one, but these are the most common errors. I just wonder how many here made it through high school English.

[SCantiGOP]

66. ending a sentence with a prepostion

As Winston Churchill said, "That is something up with which I will not put."

[reichstag911]

75. What should you end 'em with?

:eyes:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

87. with what should you end them, if you please!

sP

[damntexdem]

151. Now, you ask that question correctly:

"What should you end them with, asshole?"

[RufusEarl]

67. Guilty, i know i have committed many grammar errors posting on DU.

But spelling error's! that amazes me because DU provides a spell Check. I've never understood why posters can't or want use the damn thing.

[reichstag911]

245. "error's?" nt

[Nutmegger]

78. "Its" and "it's"

It's is a contraction for "it is" or "it has".

Its is a possessive pronoun. Example: The dog wagged its tail.

[rocktivity]

79. "Important" is an adjective. "Importantly" is an adverb.

Adjectives describe nouns. Adverbs describe adjectives. Something can be "more important" than something else, but not "more importantly." If you're talking about more than two things, then one of the things is "most important," not "most importantly." Technically, something can "importantly important," but never "more/most importantly."


rocknation

[warrens]

81. My biggest gripe is the simplest

HOW ABOUT PROOFING YOUR HEADLINES BEFORE POSTING? I mean, we got a spell-check and everything here. To not even come close to spelling, say, Cheney (I've actually seen it spelled Chainy here) is just appalling.

[LisaM]

82. Lie and lay

I had a professor who used to say, "if a coed is going to lay out in the sun, I want a blanket".

[calico1]

84. Most of the ones already mentioned here.

I think "loose" meaning "lose" is one of the most frequent ones I see here and everywhere else.

Not about grammar or spelling but something that always annoys me are the teaser threads such as:"Is is just me?" so you have to open them in order to know what the hell the thread is about. And also threads where people must assume that everyone is watching TV, listening to radio, reading the news and glued to DU 24/7. The ones that go something like this: "That lady didn't really say that!" And there is nothing more to the thread. Okay....let me get my crystal ball so I can figure out what on Earth you are referring to.:think:

When I was working I always loved the "TURN RANDY ROADS ON RIGHT NOW!" threads. :banghead:

[lukasahero]

85. Then and than

Haven't read all the other posts yet but this is one that truly bugs me.

"We go to one place and then the other but we might rather go to one than the other."

This thread is a hilarious. I try not to call people on it though in conversations here because that's just rude.

[babylonsister]

90. Affect vs. effect; especially annoying because I never get it right! nt

[theHandpuppet]

107. I get it right 50% of the time.

I guess the other 50%. :evilgrin:

[damntexdem]

153. Do you mean that it can effect an affect in you, ...

but you cannot affect the effect that you wish when using the words?

[babylonsister]

166. Yeah, sumthin' like that. nt

[karlrschneider]

194. Effect can be a noun or a verb, affect is always a verb.

I think.

"The television doesn't really affect my concentration on DU threads."

"The effect on my concentration by the TV is very minimal."

"Drinking can effect a change in your behavior."

Do I got's it right? :evilgrin:

[Phx_Dem]

199. No, you don't--close though

affect can also be a noun.

"Tomkin's work on affect began in the mid-1940s...."

http://www.affectivetherapy.co.uk/Tomkins_Affect.htm

edit: should point out that it's pronounced differently when used this way, emphasis on the 'A'.

[karlrschneider]

203. I'll have to consider that one. It sounds like Tomkin appropriated

a common word (the normal spelling of it, anyway) and gave it a different and somewhat arcane
meaning. I guess you're right, technically, but I don't much like it. ;-)

[babylonsister]

205. See? This is why I constantly screw it up!

:D

[Phx_Dem]

248. I was thinking about this last night, it's a different word

So your original def. is correct, mostly.
http://www.wonderfulwritingskillsunhandbook.com/html/affect_vs_effect.html
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/affect.html


In psychology, affect is the scientific term used to describe a subject's externally displayed mood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affect_(psychology)

[Cronus Protagonist]

94. "There is no endless number of variations." ????

I'd like to see that phrase translated into English, please.

(Sorry, but you literally asked for it)

:evilgrin:




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[theHandpuppet]

105. I'll always ask for it, by gum!

I wondered about that phrase myself. How would you have written it? (I'm sincerely asking.)

[Cronus Protagonist]

140. I would have said...

"For which there are, apparently, infinite variations in spelling."

And if I had taken a toke right before writing it, I might have gone for ...

"For which there are myriad creative spelling variations."

:evilgrin:



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[theHandpuppet]

146. Ha-ha! I like them both

Not the toking type myself but some swear it gets the creative juices flowing.

[damntexdem]

158. But it's true! If there were an endless number of variations ...

then there would be an infinite number of them. But the actual number of variations that occur, although immense, is in no way infinite. Thus, there is no endless number of variations.

[fishnfla]

95. I wish DUers would learn how to spell "moron"

frickin' idjits

[Arugula Latte]

103. Shirley you can't be SERIES?11!!1

;)

[damntexdem]

97. Actually, one CAN loose one's marbles -- then they run all over the floor.

But I hate substitution of which, which should follow a comma and simply add information, for that that takes no comma and leads a word or phrase that is essential to identifying what is being modified.

When I see such a substitution, I go nukular. ;-)

[JuniperLea]

98. My pet peeve is self-appointed grammar police

making others feel badly around here.

[damntexdem]

102. Are you just pettily peeved?

Or are you crying grammar-police brutality?

[Auntie Bush]

168. My pet peeve is people who try to impress others with their knowledge

Putting others down is a specific psychological method of building up ones own self image. My husband does it all the time. He's always correcting everyones english. I'm always conscious that he's trying to show me how smart he is because I stink at english grammar and especially spelling. If we didn't have spell checker I would probably wouldn't post. I've always been a poor speller, but as I get older it gets worse and worser and soon it will be the worstest ever. (KO gave me permission to use those words. lol)

Lighten up folks. Stop making people ashamed of their posts. It isn't nice of you and it isn't nice to always wonder if you have made grammatical errors that others are bugged about. Give us poor spellers and two fingered typists a break. I hate myself for not paying attention in H.S. English. See, now you got me hating myself! lol Have a little empathy and understand what it feels like to be called stupid as many did on this post. By the way...being a poor speller isn't stupidity...it's a slight handicap. It's having difficulty with visual and perceptual memory retention. It's a learning disability! It's not nice to ridicule people. Sorry for being so nasty but that's one of MY pet peeves.

[karlrschneider]

198. If you feel badly, you should get your hands repaired!

:evilgrin:

Oh, I kill me...
:D

[cool user name]

232. LMAO!!!!

[ceile]

111. Y'all and ya'll and fixing to

or as everyone but me in the state says "fixin' to"

[damntexdem]

161. "Y'all" is clearly correct, a contraction of "you all."

So, the correct plural is "all y'all," not "all ya'll."

[karlrschneider]

202. Hey, I say "fixin to" all the time!

But I don't consider it an issue of grammar; rather one of dialectics.
:-)

How do you feel about "yonder"? Didn't Stephen Foster grant that one some legitimacy?

[emmadoggy]

112. I agree with most of the other comments here...

To, too, two
Their, there, they're
Its, It's
Your, you're
loose, lose
should of
sight, site, cite
advice, advise
Internet/text message shorthand - like ur and U R 2 etc. (though I'm ok with a sprinkling of BTW, LOL, ROFL etc.)

I'm sure there are many more that have irked me from time to time.

I admit to occasionally using "alot" :eyes: , and I freely admit that "who" and "whom" still give me trouble, as does "Joe and I" versus "Me and Joe" (though when I stop and analyze it I can usually figure it out). I do ok on spelling and punctuation (though I still make mistakes). Proper sentence structure is probably my biggest challenge.

The occasional misspellings and typos don't bother me as much, especially if it's pretty obvious that that's what it was. When I see the same word misspelled more than once in a post, however, it's obvious it's not a typo.

I would like to also say that DU is one of the most literate sites I've ever frequented. I find there to be a relatively small amount of these irritations on this site compared to many others, which means that I find DUers to be a pretty smart bunch overall!
:D

[proud2BlibKansan]

115. its and it"s

Drives me nuts since it isn't hard at all to know the difference.

IT'S stands for IT IS.

ITS is possessive.

[question everything]

116. Irregardless!

And the sad reality is that this word has now been accepted, in college dictionaries, next to, of course, regardless.

[Kajsa]

251. My mother thanks you for

pointing this out.

This is her pet peeve regarding English grammar
and English is her second language!

[tech3149]

120. Good to know I'm not the only one biting my finger

while reading some posts. I keep my mouth(keyboard) shut because I don't want to discourage participation. Good thinking expressed poorly is still good thinking.

[Bluebear]

122. "There is no endless number of variations." - - Huh??

[theHandpuppet]

132. Like I told another poster earlier in this thread...

... I wondered about that phrase myself. It certainly doesn't "sound" right, does it? If the sentence is grammatically wrong, though, how would you have written it?

[Bluebear]

136. Well...

"There is AN endless number of variations, but none of them are correct." or

"Hypocrisy is spelled H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y. There is no correct variation!"

Maybe?

[theHandpuppet]

143. I like the second choice.

Much better than the way I phrased it! :-)

[senseandsensibility]

124. Forget DU!

What about businesses? My favorite Italian Restaurant has a a professionally printed banner outside advertising their delicious pasta's. It's been there for about a month. I haven't told any of the workers, although I might if it's up the next time I visit. As an English teacher, I never correct others on this board. I'm not saying that I don't cringe occasionally, but I figure that we're all among family here. If we have to watch every keystroke for fear someone will correct us, the atmosphere won't be very relaxed, will it? We're not at work, and we should be able to write imperfectly if we wish. But a business with money to print banners? To me, that's different.

[reichstag911]

246. Or politicians:

(The "say's," of course, plus no apostrophe in either "Lets.")

[babylonsister]

126. Nevertheless - what is it good for? nt

[senseandsensibility]

130. I like nevertheless!

Used properly, it makes your writing flow more smoothly. I use it to signal that I am presenting the other side of an issue. Without it, witing can sound choppy and disjointed.

[NashVegas]

127. Without Grammar Mistakes and Misspellings, There Would Be No Editors

I received an email, last year, from a Cambridge-educated, published novelist and all around very sharp guy, that contained a "they're," that should've been a "their."

Although grammar mistakes are the worse of the two (due to the confusion they may cause), it's better to use one's language skills to get an idea across than pick apart someone's spelling - unless you're paid to.

[AirmensMom]

129. Misuse of pronouns.

"John gave it to Jane and I." No, no, no! John gave it to Jane and ME. I hear this on the news, in movies, TV shows, and I've seen it in print. They must have changed the rules since I went to school.

[reichstag911]

247. Nope, no rule change,...

...just common among those whose reach exceeds their grasp. They know that there's some rule out there about the difference between "X and me" and "X and I," and they've heard more educated people than they use the latter properly -- and it sounded "edumacated" -- so they use it to try and sound more intelligent and knowledgeable than they are.

[meisje]

131. This is the dumbest thread I ever saw

[Cronus Protagonist]

142. OMG!! This is HUGH! Their RIGHT!

:evilgrin:



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[damntexdem]

164. But is it the dumbest you ever looked at?

;-)

[theHandpuppet]

176. Or is it just the stupidest?

;-)

[karlrschneider]

147. I don't get terribly bothered by those here at DU (but I do wish we

would all be a little more careful)... I guess my pet peeve is when "news"casters talk about
a police chase, "travelling at a high rate of speed..."

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[damntexdem]

165. But the police chase of O.J. ...

travelled at a low rate of speed -- remember? So did the recent police chase of the truck hijacker here in DFW.

After all, any rate can be low or high, even one of speed.

[karlrschneider]

185. That's true, but my complaint is actually the use of "rate of"

The "rate" of speed is acceleration and the expression is also grammatically redundant. But then,
I'm something of a curmudgeon. ;-)

[slackmaster]

156. I refuse to toe the line in this thread

:nuke:

[theHandpuppet]

170. Then you're a shoe-in for our DU grammar award!

;-)

[slackmaster]

188. I will not be shoe-horned into that kind of square pigeon-hole

:-)

I didn't spend five years at a major University for nothing.

[Spider Jerusalem]

172. Don't you mean 'tow'?

The proper idiom is 'toe the line', not 'tow the line'. Depending on which version you believe, it originates from: a set of lines 'more than a sword's length apart' in the English House of Commons--members were ordered to 'toe the line' when it looked as though a heated debate might be settled at the point of a blade; the starting line of a foot-race, and the command of the starter to the runners; or the command of the referee in a bare-knuckle boxing match that the fighters 'toe the line' in the centre of the ring at the start of the fight (this last also known as 'coming up to scratch').

[slackmaster]

187. Towing the line makes sense to me

As in contributing to the pulling force applied to a rope with the goal of getting some kind of work done, e.g. relocating an object such as a boat or monster truck.

;-)

[Spider Jerusalem]

193. It may make sense to you, but it's stilll wrong...

not to mention that it that sense meaning of the idiom 'TOE the line' ('conform with the rules') is totally lost.

[blonndee]

157. The misuse of "less" when it should be "fewer" bothers me. A lot! nt

[Annces]

162. language is fluid and

grammer nazis help no one. Nature grows in curves.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

163. Personally, I Abhor Self-Righteous Posters Who Start Threads Asking

in depth rhetorical questions on controversial topics while not supplying their own opinion. I also can't stand the abundance of double standards and hypocrisy that goes on. Those aren't grammar related, but speak to sheer ignorance nonetheless.

On a the more petty level, it annoys me when people put things such as "Personally, I" as I did in the thread title. You said "I". I figured that stood for you personally LOL.

It also is annoying to see things such as "To be honest, I..." or "Honestly?". Wait, as opposed to lying through your teeth? Yes, answer honestly.

One that doesn't annoy me but is more on the level of humorous, is the use of "well that's the pot calling the kettle black". See, the pot is black and so is the kettle. That's the point of the hypocrisy. But when someone says it in disagreement they're actually saying that though you are guilty of the offense, they agree that the other person referenced is guilty of it too. Though they intend to defend the victim, they're actually agreeing with the attacker by saying that.

Oh, and has anybody ever realized that we ask all the time to "Caption this pic!!!!", but no one ever gives a caption? Instead, we give funny blurbs that would seem appropriate in a bubble text coming out of person's mouth or something. :)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

220. Oh Yeah, I Forgot Hyphenation. That Throws A TON Of People Off.

[theHandpuppet]

167. Okay, here's one to stump everyone!

This tops my all-time pet peeve list. It is a grammatical error I hear all the time when people speak, but I've never seen folks make that same error when writing. What is it, you ask?

"I SEEN."

AAARRRGHHHHH!!!

Whatever happened to the word "saw"? Folks don't write "I seen" but it would seem 95% of the population has simply dropped the word "saw" from their speech. It drives me insane. How did this happen?

[blonndee]

171. No, they use it this way: "I have saw."

LOL.

[Gormy Cuss]

169. One can loose one's marbles

but it means one has freed the marbles from some bonds.

Irregardless of which you think, its the trueth. :P

[Sapphocrat]

173. Verb agreement, for starters.

It's "Every one of them was here," not "Every one of them were here," and "A large number of voters was purged," not "A large number of voters were purged."

It's "John gave the tickets to Jane and me," not "John gave the tickets to Jane and I." It's "Jane and I saw the movie," not "Jane and me" --or "Me and Jane"-- "saw the movie."

"It's" is the contraction of "it is." "Its" is possessive. "The car runs, but its left rear tire is flat, and it's going to take some time to fix it."

It's "The Bushes are dysfunctional," not "The Bush's are dysfunctional."

"They're going to their house, which is right there."

It's "should have gone," not "should have went."

"Should've" is the contraction of "should have": "I should've gotten up earlier." There is no such thing as "should of." Ditto could've/could have and would've/would have; there is no "could of" or "would of."

To express hearty agreement, shout "Hear, hear!" and not "Here, here!" (unless you are waving your hand wildly when someone calls your name from a roster).

You have "peace of mind," and you give someone a "piece of your mind" -- not the other way around.

"Lite" should never be allowed in Scrabble. It's L-I-G-H-T.

Your children are dependent on you -- not "dependant."

I could go on forever. I do agree about the word "hypocrisy"; the "hypocracy" misspelling makes me wince!

P.S. I lack any formal education of which to speak, I can't diagram a sentence to save my life, I know that "with" is a preposition but I can't define the word "preposition," I know when to use "which" and when to use "that" but I can't explain why, and I know what a conjunction is only because of "Schoolhouse Rock." So if I can spell and use proper grammar (and I do try), any native English speaker (excluding those with learning disabilities) can.

P.P.S. It's "P.P.S." (post-postscript), not "P.S.S."

[theHandpuppet]

175. If you know the rules for "which" and "that"...

... you have a leg up on me, Sapphocrat! I'm still trying.

[Sapphocrat]

241. Not really, tHp!

I know when to use "which" and "that," but I still can't explain why! Much of what I know I learned solely through avid reading, and the rest simply by rote -- which is about the best one can do when the bulk of one's education comes from Irish-born nuns who had to ask us eight-year-olds how to spell "nickel" (one tried "nichol")!

Here's another thing, which is a bit OT: Since most of everything I learned about English I learned on my own from books, I'm at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to pronunciation.* Even if you can define "ennui" and "mores," how do you learn to pronounce them if you've never heard them spoken aloud before?

Now, don't even get me started on The New Math... LOL


* There's another one: It's "pronunciation," not "pronounciation!"

[AirmensMom]

240. You covered it pretty well, Sapphocrat.

:applause:

Schoolhouse Rock ... what goes through my head is, "Conjunction junction, what's your function? Hooking up words and phrases and clauses ..." :rofl:

[fishwax]

178. I identify more with the grammar insurgents than the grammar police

Which is not to say that I don't have any use for grammar or proper usage--I make my living in the world of words, grammar, etc.

But many grammar pet peeves are actually not incorrect. For example, there's no legitimate rule against ending a sentence with a preposition, "hopefully" is a perfectly acceptable way to begin a sentence, and "different than" is not necessarily a mistake. Hopefully, we will someday find the courage to recklessly disregard the nonsense rule about splitting infinitives as well.

Sometimes grammar mistakes do get on my nerves, I must admit, but rather than hammer someone for poor grammar (though I'm glad to offer suggestions in certain circumstances), I find it more useful to decipher the internal logic behind the mistake (not always possible, of course--some mistakes are just silly :))

[WilliamPitt]

180. Isreal, "loose" for "lose"

[trackfan]

181. It's Emperor not Emporer

[VOX]

182. Some DUers aren't yet savvy about "Democrat Party" vs. "Democratic Party."

Please, never, never, never say "Democrat Party." If you hear or read anyone using the phrase, please correct them. I have seen it used here on occasion at DU, probably in innocent ignorance. I'm not overly fond of grammar nazis, but please do not fall for this old right wing trick.

You are a Democrat. Your candidate represents the Democratic Party -- he/she is the Democratic candidate. There is no such thing as the "Democrat Party." You vote Democratic, not Democrat.

Those who continually and deliberately use the phrase "Democrat Party" are invariably right-wingers. Resident * uses it all the time. It's meant to be a slur.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/articles/060807ta_talk_hertzberg
The New Yorker Magazine
THE “IC” FACTOR
Issue of 2006-08-07
Posted 2006-07-31
<snip>
There’s no great mystery about the motives behind this deliberate misnaming. “Democrat Party” is a slur, or intended to be—a handy way to express contempt. Aesthetic judgments are subjective, of course, but “Democrat Party” is jarring verging on ugly. It fairly screams “rat.” At a slightly higher level of sophistication, it’s an attempt to deny the enemy the positive connotations of its chosen appellation.
<snip>
The job of politicians, however, is different, and among those of the Republican persuasion “Democrat Party” is now nearly universal. This is partly the work of Newt Gingrich, the nominal author of the notorious 1990 memo “Language: A Key Mechanism of Control,” and his Contract with America pollster, Frank Luntz, the Johnny Appleseed of such linguistic innovations as “death tax” for estate tax and “personal accounts” for Social Security privatization. Luntz, who road-tested the adjectival use of “Democrat” with a focus group in 2001, has concluded that the only people who really dislike it are highly partisan adherents of the—how you say?—Democratic Party.
<snip>

[theHandpuppet]

190. I've always bristled at seeing "Democrat" substituted for "Democratic"...

...but I had no idea why this has become so common. Thanks for the background information!

[flyarm]

184. heyyy i am a lousy typist..

the worst..in fact i deliberately failed typing so i would never be stuck working in an office..( for my dads business) ..i wanted to fly and see the world..

and i did just that..i don't do check books..or type..i hire people for that!

so do not get on those of us who lack office skills or typing skills..

i may not be as good as you in this skill but i damn sure can evacuate an airplane probably a whole hell of a lot faster than you!! and keep more people alive than you can with your grammar police..

and i have probably been to more countries than you have and seen more historical places and incredible art than you have...

i have worked with people from all walks of life and people who live in almost all countries of the world.

i even had the Dalai Lama on one of my flights..and i had to make him follow the procedures.

i have lived in 4 countries besides the USA..and i love people and they love me..how could life be better..

i have run many charity fund raisers and raised allot of money for many worthy causes.

i have lived in 9 states in the USA..and worked for the dem party in all of them

i have been elected as a democratic delegate for the national presidential convention and won an election for that, beating out many life long career politicians.

and guess what..i never needed to know how to type..

and i hate typing..i am incompetent at typing..so if i make mistakes typing..that is someone else's problem..not mine..because what i bring here is experience that others do not have..

i am happy for great typists..i am happy for english teachers..because they are doing what they love..and what they are the best at doing..but do not worry about me..i am happy typing the way i do..and misspelling the way i do..it's no sweat to me..you see, i know through all the people that have touched my life, in so many countries and places..we are all good at somethings and not good in others..and that is what makes us all human!

soooo when you see me typing lousey..have your laugh , or snit, or whatever..

..but it will never bother me..i know who i am and i know what i am good at..

oh and i raised a son who graduated university in 4 years and was on the deans list every semester in college as an athlete..the first athlete in 14 yrs of his university to graduate in 4 years, and not 4 1/2 or 5..
and he was named to 3 of the highest honor societies in the nation..

so i haven't done so bad not knowing how to type...

and besides..i have long fingernails..and i won't cut them to type here at DU!!

they are just too pretty!

ta ta..

i am counting on the rest of you to out type me and out spell me..and enjoy what you are good at!!

fly

[theHandpuppet]

197. I don't type either

Never had lessons, just hunt and peck. Though I'm not sure what that has to do with grammar.

[flyarm]

208. sometimes our grammar gets messed up with our typing skills!!

and my fingernails..lol

i have a few times, ( ok i admit it, more than a few times) gone back and seen what i wrote and said..ohhh my, oh my...was i in for a surprise..because i thought i typed what i was thinking!!

didn't turn out exactly that way...lol...nope , i would have had a very bad report card!!

fly

[LWolf]

200. Many, but the gold medal goes to

using "loose" when you mean "lose."

[likesmountains 52]

207. "I'm nauseous" That means "I make people sick." Correct word phrase:

I'm nauseated...

[Hubert Flottz]

210. Which is the right word Poke or Bag? n\t

[Starbucks Anarchist]

211. People who spell "conscience" as "conscious."

As in "Dubya has no conscious."

:mad:

Also, apostrophes where they are not needed. I recently saw a local ad on TV that said "Open Saturday's and Sunday's."

:wtf:

[marions ghost]

214. my mother was an editor

so I grew up with extreme consequences for grammar infractions. Our big joke is "we could do anything we liked as kids but we'd better never dangle a participle..." So I like language and know what good writing is, and I understand the urges of those sensitive to word usage and grammar to do their part to
clean up the internets. Your help is appreciated...but hey, don't stress on it y'know. Life's too short.

Here are some :loveya: :loveya: for you strict grammarians and Mom.

On the other hand... I happen to LOVE the casual and individualistic styles of blogs & message boards. The purpose is to express, inform, communicate--isn't it?--not to craft perfect sentences. Often the writing is very immediate, full of slang, colorful, creative. It's just messaging...keep in mind... unless the urge to write an essay strikes, and then go for the grammatical gold. But beyond the worst grammar and spelling infractions, it's just too inhibiting to have to worry about correctness all the time in messaging IMO. It naturally reflects spoken speech patterns.

Here are some :loveya: :loveya: for you quick communicators and expressors.
---------------

I'm strictly in the middle on this debate ;)

[tammywammy]

221. When I was in high school

I was a co-editor of the yearbook. Our adviser was a tough cookie. She had done a lot of work on magazines, and was still editor of one monthly publication while teaching high school.

She beat in more grammar in a month than some got in their entire education. She also taught us concise writing. I hate when someone uses 6 words, when they could have used two. :argh: The hardest part of that, was in college when a professor wanted a 5 page paper, I was done in 3. I had to reteach myself to b.s. in essays to make it long enough.

I'm always thankful to her for the lessons I got those years.

[Xenotime]

215. prolly used for probably...argH!

[Thirtieschild]

223. Meet up with .... join up with

I hear those phrases on television constantly, and they've become so entrenched that now I even read them.

When my job was turning social workerese into English, the strangest word I came across was organizationalization. And, of course, limitate. And this from people with advanced degrees.

[cool user name]

224. Punctuation is part of grammar.

;) :)

[MzNov]

225. Bring/Take and Possessive Tense

Bring something with you, pick up and take something away with you. The rule was always there but has relaxed over the years. As everything else....

Almost everyone says:

Each person has their own opinion. arghhhhhh
It's each person has HIS (her) own opinion.

But hey, as long as I can guess what someone means, I'm not such a Notzi anymore.

:-)

[cynatnite]

228. missing apostrophes

I've seen 'until' shortened to till...it's supposed to be 'til.
There is because shortened to cause...supposed to be 'cause.

It's a peeve.

[qwertyMike]

230. My Daughter says things like..

"It was so fun" - "You should see them, they're so fun"

Is there any bad grammar there?
Mick

[catzies]

231. People who use "populous" when they mean "populace"

:banghead:

[bigwillq]

233. LOL! I used bestest in a thread earlier.

I like that non-word and I will continue to use it! :P :) :hi:

[Seeking Serenity]

234. I don't have pet peeves. I do have a pet dog.

But what I don't like, and one hears it quite often around here, is, when one has left a door ajar, someone will say, "Close the door; you're letting the cold in."

One can't let the "cold" in, one lets the heat out. There is no such thing as "cold." There is only "heat." "Cold" is merely the absence of heat.

Also, I don't like it when one uses the 2d-person pronoun "you" when the speaker or writer means an unspecified person or group. "One hears the colloquialism 'y'all' quite often in Little Rock," not "You hear the colloquialism 'y'all' quite often in Little Rock." If you have never been to Little Rock, you would have never heard it.

And call me retrograde, but I still prefer the use of the masculine pronoun when the gender of the singular subject or object is unknown or immaterial. "A novelist should write about what he knows best." And words or phrases employing "every" are singular in form! "Every student will bring his supplies to school on the first day of class," not "Every student will bring their supplies to school. . . ."

Off :rant:

[begin_within]

235. "did good"

instead of "did well." As in: "Taylor Hicks did good tonight."

[ScreamingMeemie]

237. Life's too short to get bent like that Handpuppet. Relax.

:hi:

[Ouabache]

238. people who abbreviate 'et cetera' as 'ect.' IT IS 'ETC.'

et cetera, Latin for 'and similar things'

The correct abbreviation is etc. and that is pronounced et cetera, not egxcetra !!

[Chan790]

239. Word Order

People who think word order is open to interpretation annoy the fuck out of me. In some languages word order is subjective, English is not one of those languages.

People who compose messages using an overabundance of acronyms are a pet peeve too, but that's not grammar, it's sheer annoyance at other people stupidity. There is no good reason to post a message reading: "OMG 2 fun-E BTW IBTL" OMG, that's just plain laziness right there.

[SKKY]

242. My personal gripe is the use of words that don't even exist...

...such as irregardless.

[ProfessorGAC]

244. The Misuse of "Apropos"

It is NOT synomym for appropriate. I hate when it's used that way!
The Professor