If you didn't need a college degree for employability purposes,

[LaraMN]

would you still seek/have sought one? I'm still working on mine, but it's definitely something I would want to do, even if I didn't *need* it for long-term financial logistics. Right now, I feel alot of pressure to finish, as I still have about 50 credits left for my degree, but I really do love being in school, and I always tell my kids how great college is, in the hope that they'll adopt a positive attitude about learning. How about you? Would the journey alone be worth the effort?

[seemunkee]

1. Yes, even though I didn't finish

I became a custom furniture builder and did it for 15 years. My nearly completed English degree wouldn't have mattered one bit but I did it any way. One shop I worked in had 14 people, everyone had a liberal arts degree of some type.

I only have 12 credits, 8 of which needs to be in a foreign language which I totally suck at.

[jpgray]

2. Absolutely not

"I think I also read this was Yeats's reaction to the Black and Tan war?"--"Well that's one of many possible interpretations..."

Fair enough. Glad I'm paying for this. :D

[NewWaveChick1981]

3. Yes.

I might not have gotten it when I did (did the traditional thing), but I would have eventually. I found it important as a personal goal and did not look at it as a tool to get a job. :)

[Taverner]

4. yep

The sex, drugs, and rock and roll was enough to lure me

[NewWaveChick1981]

Woohoo!

:hi: That in and of itself should be why people go to college. :P

I couldn't have had my username without college...

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. Absolutely!!

I went to college not for "job skillz" but to become educated and a better person. And it helped. Same with grad school.

I want to take every college that advertises about "job skills" and burn it down. Colleges and universities are about education. Tech schoolz are for "job skillz".

[xmas74]

14. Thank you!

This is my rant about college. I'm tired of the "job skills" advertised by so many schools. College should be about learning for the sake of learning, for becoming a well-balanced individual.

Too many colleges advertise to students for job skills and leave those who want to really learn out in the cold. I know of too many former students that went for the job skills and are still struggling to find a decent job.

IMO, there should be a push for votech education in this country. Too many counselors in high schools tell students that college/university is their only choice for their future when they would better benefit from a votech. Those same students are now paying tens of thousands on student loans w/o any specialized skills benefiting them in the job market.

If I had the money I would be a "permastudent", but I don't. If I had just one person push me toward votech training I would have been better off jobwise, yet still would have at least audited the occasional course at a local college or university for the sake of learning something new.

[Rabrrrrrr]

17. Absolutely - if all one wants is the skills to hold a parrticular job

that doesn't require much education, then tech school should be recommended.

There's too much overlap now, with tech school trying to pretend they provide an education, and colleges being forced to dumb themselves down to provide job skills.

The two should be entirely separate - each fills a required and necessary niche, as they have done for hundreds and hundreds of years, and the mixing of them taints both in ways that make me feel sad.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

38. There are some exceptions.

In some fields, particular in medicine (med school, nursing and physical therapy for example), those who are enrolled in such academic major are required to have a solid, liberal arts base, but much of the classes involve a strong scientific knowledge, major critical thinking skills, and on some level, technical skills. No, it's not the same as going to air conditioning repair school, but in medicine, your college experience will directly prepare you for a job. For anyone who's been there, they come out of it as not only strong critical thinkers, but with an entirely new kind of inner strength for having been through the boot camp like experience it involves.

[Rabrrrrrr]

45. But those aren't "job skillz" schools.

My degree is in engineering - clearly, to be an engineer, one needs to have a degree in engineering, and thus, in a sense, the degree is partly job skill based. One could never learn engineering at a tech school. One might learn how to pull a computer apart, or set up a network, or how to weld - that is, specific job skills, at a tech school - but will not learn the overarching theory behind everything, nor acquire a broad education.

Medical school, architectural school, physical therapy, nursing, pshychiatry, dentistry, engineering, etc.: none of those go to "job skillz" schools. They go to colleges to have a holistic leaning experience, and to become more educated, and to learn theory about the specific field of their interest; and many of them require on-the-job-training and some require internships, etc., but the schooling is never strictly about job skills. It's about practical application, yes; but also a lot about theory and philosophy of the field as well.

That's the dinstinction I'm making. I don't see it as "exceptions" at all. And this might be merely quibbling over inessentials, an unfortunate habit of mine; and if so, I apologize.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

47. You completely get it then.

Engineering is another one. My apologies as well.

:thumbsup:

[xmas74]

6. Education for education's sake is something I wholeheartedly

agree with but I think I'd skip quite a few of the classes that were required.

Has freshman orientation really done anyone any good? I wasn't too thrilled w/ a few of my gym classes either. (A requirement at my school. We didn't have anything interesting, like a yoga or martial arts. Everything was for the lazy, such as badmitten and bowling. And I had to have 6 hours!)

We also had to have religion at my school in order to graduate-9 hours. I didn't mind the electives but the one mandatory class that involved having to attend service twice a week was no picnic.

[LaraMN]

8. I loved a genetics class I had when I was doing my generals.

It's unrelated to anything I'll likely do for work purposes, but some of the basic knowledge I picked up came in handy when Jack was diagnosed with Downs, for instance. I also loved some of the Anthropology courses I had. I really enjoy the whole "exploration" aspect of a lib.ed degree.

[xmas74]

16. Those are classes I would have enjoyed.

I tend to be a "Jack of all trades" kind of person-I enjoy being knowledgable in a number of different areas. Subjects that the average person would not take tend to hold my interest.

My experience w/ "throwaway" classes might be different from yours since I attended a private college that had requirements much different from most state universities. Learning how to navigate myself around town (half of my freshman orientation class) was a waste of time for me, since I grew up in that same town. And the hours of attending church services in order to complete the mandatory time that all had to have was a bit of a waste when I could have been in another class instead.

[calico1]

56. I agree. I am so glad I went to college because

I think overall it makes me a more well rounded person and it was a good learning experience. However, I could have done without a few courses or having to take so many of the same kind. I majored in Business yet had to take 2 years of Greek/Roman history. One semester would have been enough. On the other hand I thoroughly enjoyed Spanish literature. The professor was amazing and made the class fun. But then I had a biology professor who made the class very hard. It was supposed to be an easier class because it was not for people who majored in science. But he made those exams tough and sometimes gave them on the same day as an exam in a major course. Idiot.

[Book Lover]

7. Of course

I went to college to get an education, not a job. College is about learning how to think, not how to take dictation and learn how to regurgitate.

[miss_american_pie]

9. Oh I loved school

If I had unlimited amounts of money, I'd still be studying.

[billyskank]

10. Not if I had to pay for it

If I had to pay for it then it would become subject to the cost/benefit analysis that all economic decisions are made by (or should be).

[hunter]

50. Economics is like a toilet.

Necessary, but often full of shit.

It is utterly impossible to come up with a "cost/benefit analysis" for the meanings of our lives.

[SeattleGirl]

11. Yes, I would have.

I had been a secretary/admin assistant/manuscript typist/etc. for a number of years, and was getting tired of it. I initially went to college to get my basic and advanced certificates in alcohol/drug treatment, and that's all I had intended to do. But sometime during my first year, going just part time, I decided to go for a 4-year degree, because I loved being back in school. Funny thing is, I started out working toward a degree in vocational rehabilitation, but after taking my first psych course, decided to switch to a degree in psych. Now, however, I am working as a vocational rehabilitation counselor. Go figure!

[pitohui]

12. no life is too short

there are too many other ways to learn that don't involve contact w. horny professors -- you can tell i just came from the other thread but it was prob. much worse back in my day, when professors could pretty much openly target any attractive female they wanted

you can learn more without the stress of being subject to stupid tests that don't test and older creeps who don't know how to zip it

and at least when i attended college it was cheap! (i was a scholarship student, and scholarships that pay "enough" these days are apparently damn hard to come by or so i'm told)

today a kid could end up tens of thousands of dollars in debt "for the journey alone," a weight that will drag down the kid's financial picture for years if not decades

if you're paying for the college, sure, the kid might as well go and attend the keggers and parties while the free ride lasts, but if the kid herself is going to end up in debt, what you SHOULD be teaching the kid is the ability to calculate a sane risk/reward ratio -- will the pay-off be worth the very real financial costs?

comments about how it's the journey, not the destination (not exactly what YOU said, what i've heard others say) is almost always a clue that the person is screwing off and not making the best decision

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

13. Oh yes.

I was headed to wards a career in restaurant management when I decided to go back to school and finish up.
Now, I no longer have to cook to get a paycheck, and I really, really enjoy my current job.

But that's not the only reason I returned to college. I also love learning new things; challenging myself to
absorb new information and apply it to whatever I encounter ahead of me.

I think I'm going to go back for my master's degree in a year or two.

[mike_c]

15. very much so....

I went to college and grad school as a "second career," i.e. after I already had skills and a decent job (although I like what I do now much more). It really was one of the best times of my life, especially grad school.

[RedStateShame]

18. Hell no

I could have indulged in the sex, drugs, and rock and roll with less distractions and less massive debt in college loans that I'll never pay off.

[Magrittes Pipe]

19. Hell, if I didn't need to get a job, I'd still be IN school!

:bounce:

[yellowdogintexas]

40. Now that is MY Answer too. I loved school, with the exception

of a few classes they made me take.

It would be a real luxury to just take classes in stuff I wanted to know more about
I would definitely be a perpetual student!!!!

[GalleryGod]

20. three degrees later. Yes.

[Writer]

21. Let me tell you: I notice a distinct difference between those who did/

did not attend college. Now, I in no way knock those who did not go, but college is more than a learning experience - it's a developmental experience. A greater world opens for you - it's almost as if you've been lifted up onto a different plane of observation and perspective on what IS.

Yes, most definitely worth it.

[GalleryGod]

34. Well put: There's a HUGE difference in those with degrees and those

without.

Where I work even the Administrative Assistants have 4 year degrees, but, so do Mail Room clerks in the Big Talent Agencies in Hollyywood,too.

So it just isn't academe, where I reside.

[Misunderestimator]

60. Worlds open up for people in many different ways...

Attending college isn't the only way to transcend mediocrity. Many people who attend college are just as stupid and narrow-minded coming out as they were going in, but with an added layer of superiority and arrogance. Many people attend college simply because their parents can afford it, while plenty of other very intelligent and enlightened people do not have the means.

I have a degree, and I learned a lot in college about life... but it was mainly due to the fact that I was away from home and on my own, not because of some miraculous college experience that couldn't have been achieved any other way.

[jpgray]

61. Well said. School won't save you from being a bland halfwit

Though it may provide a veneer of sophistication wherein you can exchange lame bona fides with people about how fascinating Russian history is, or how Proust and Camus changed your life. :D

[Nikia]

22. College helped my people skills and overall maturity

It also helped further my learning, research skills, writing abilities, and problem solving abilities. It was the first time that I didn't feel like an outsider. I think all of those were valuable even if my job didn't need a degree or improve my chances of getting one/advancing.

[Skittles]

27. I learned all that being a GI brat and a veteran

and I write far better than most my degreed coworkers

[femmocrat]

23. Absolutely. I'm still amazed that I accomplished all that!

I was the first person in my family to graduate from college. I heard a speaker (at a women's event) once who said, "not only did we get into college, but we got out!" Pretty remarkable.

[mtowngman]

24. I don't intend to ever stop going to school

and I always tell my daughter how much she'll love college.

[NMMNG]

25. Indeed

If I had the money I'd be taking classes on the side nearly every semester for learning and personal enjoyment. I wouldn't mind having multiple degrees just for personal enrichment.

[wickerwoman]

26. Yes! Graduating college was the biggest mistake I ever made.

If I had the money, I would take classes forever.

Don't let anybody pressure you into finishing before you're ready.

[hunter]

51. I got graduated against my will.

After getting booted out of college twice for my bizarre behavior, I figured out how to make it work, and I was doing very well. That was when the dean told me I had to go. I had enough units for a good solid major and a minor too -- he said it was time to make room for other students and get on with my life... which actually turned out pretty well.

When my kids are grown and out of college, I'll probably go back to study some more evolutionary biology, if my brain isn't too frozen by then.

[Bassic]

28. Hell no.

Working and making some money beats studying and being broke any friggin day of the week. I read enough to satisfy my intellectual needs on my own.

[Tyler Durden]

29. Education for employment's sake alone is silly.

Take it from the old fart: if you aren't absolutely in LOVE with your profession (and sometimes, even if you are), after a couple of years every profession just becomes another job.

I lost music as a life when my right hand got ruined at age 12, ending a 7 year love affair with the piano. I would never have considered music as a "JOB" even if I had ended up as a High School band teacher. But being the smart guy on the Six Sigma team is just about as boring as it gets.

NEVER shoot for learning for the job. You will always be disappointed.

[Ohio Joe]

30. I never went to college

So, I'm not really sure what I've missed. I do know I don't regret it as I've done pretty well for myself... and had a lot of fun along the way :)

[azmouse]

49. I didn't go either.

I've worked the same jobs as college grads without the debt they had hanging over their heads. A lot of their money went toward repaying college loans while I could save or have a little fun with my money.

[Ohio Joe]

53. I have as well

I've been working as a mainframe programmer since 89' and have done quite well. Almost everyone I work with/have worked with is surprised when I tell them I've never gone to college.

[kwassa]

31. I'd like to be a perpetual student.

Much more fun than working for a living.

[datasuspect]

32. universal college education

has made the university a catchtrap sewer and has otherwise lessened the value of a degree.

[Rabrrrrrr]

36. Jesus, you hit that nail right on the head.

And you did it with such economy of words.

You are totally right.

As I mentioned above, so many colleges have become nothing more than glorified tech schools, teaching "job skillz", not educating.

And we also now have so much parental interference in the college process, that I wonder where it's all gonna end.

[ForrestGump]

42. Yes

And, especially in this country (the US, I mean), too many people are in university because it's a rite of passage, or a place to hang out for a while, rather than for any more 'noble' reason. I hesitate to call many American students 'students,' because it's not like the party-obsessed f***ers ever actually do any studying...but that's okay, because their frat brother will get them an executive job at Coca Cola, anyway They're wasting space that could be more beneficially used, perhaps by someone who falls through the financial-assistance cracks but who would thrive in a university setting.

The US has one of the highest per-capita rates of tertiary education in the world, I believe...so why does it always fall embarrassiongly low on international surveys of book learning and horse sense? In other countries, per capita attendance is far lower but people tend to be in universities for more constructive reasons.

Anf then there's grade inflation...

[Fox Mulder]

33. I don't NEED to get a college degree.

I'm working a job right now that pays great and has great benefits. But in a couple of years from now, when I get enough money saved up, I'm going back to college and finish up my degree.

Why? Even though I'm making decent money and get good benefits, I'm not happy at my job at all. In fact, I'm miserable. I don't want to have to do this type of work for the rest of my life. I want to do something that makes me happy. And the field I'm getting my degree in (environmental studies) makes me happy. My parents don't understand that, but that's another rant for another time.

[MissMillie]

35. I start back to school this fall to finish mine

I've been at my job for 20 years and am not likely to change jobs (because of my longevity, I am VERY well paid for what I do--not that I'm rich, mind you, it's just that they can probably get away with paying a newer person about 2/3 of what I make).

I'm doing it just to do it--to finish something.

[Ramsey]

37. Most definitely

College was a great time of life for me. I studied hard in my major (molecular biology), but I took classes in all kinds of liberal arts departments, like History, Politics, Comp Lit, Music, Dance, etc.

It was such a wonderful opportunity to just be expected to learn and think. When do you ever get the chance to do that again in your life?

[BluePatriot]

39. My 2 cents

I don't use my degree for my job at all...in fact I'm pretty underemployed...but I still value my critical thinking skills and education, even if they cause me pain by being able to observe the idiocy around me :)

And maybe long term, it will be best to have a degree, in terms of continued employment anywhere...

[ForrestGump]

41. Yes. I was in school most of my life because I wanted to learn, though

at graduate levels a practical aspect (in my field a PhD is required to do most of the kinds of things I wanted to do) entered the equation. Having endured tertiary education all the way to its bitter end, I began to have second thoughts about how much real learning actually goes on in educational institutions but, overall, I think formal education is a positive thing for reasosn more inherent than the merely practical. Of course, much depends on how it's done -- all education is not equal and, certainly, one system's education is not another's -- and I remain unhappy that this country's educational systems are not always what they could be and that sporadic surveys of how the US stacks up globally reinforce a shameful disparity between American resources and American education and averaged estimated standings in categories from general knowledge to sciences to whatever else.

The work I'm doing in my time-out mode (having strayed from my career track) does not officially require a degree, but that's not to say that the skills honed during my graduate work, especially (most particularly communicative skills), are not integral to doing what I'm doing. No education is wasted. Ever. Indeed, to an extent no experience is wasted, even bad ones.

I find it rather a sad indictment of The Way Things Are that I could fairly easily this year make double (or more) by working four or five hours a night than I would as an PhD-level Assistant Professor at a typical American university. That is, I could if what I'm doing weren't a tad ephemeral...like a lot of entertainemnt-related things, it's very much feast-and-famine with not a lot of job security (not that anyone, ever, really has any such security...we just think we do).

[The2ndWheel]

43. Why does college need to be great to have a positive attitude

towards learning?

[Anarcho-Socialist]

44. Absolutely

It enhanced my critical thinking and analytical skills, and made me a better person overall. I loved my degree subject and so that made it the more enjoyable.

[boobooday]

46. Here is what I tell my students

It comes from a quote, a former president of Bryn Mawr. She said: "The purpose of a liberal arts education is to make your head a more interesting place to live."

I tell them that they should think of it as interior decorating -- to follow up with Bob Marley, who said, "my home is in my head." A good reason to fill it with beautiful and meaningful things.

[Sequoia]

48. I used to want to.

These days I see grads and their jobs aren't any better than mine. All in all we're just another brick in the wall.

[Beausoir]

52. Yes. I am so proud of my degree, even though I don't "use" it.

I worked like hell to get through college. I would do it all again.

[grannylib]

54. Hell yes! If I won the lottery, I'd be back in college in a heartbeat.

I already have an undergrad degree, but I'd go back and study EVERYTHING!
(Except maybe math...I hate math!)
But you bet the journey is worth the effort...
Jeremy Hillary Boob, Ph.D., was right: "so little time, so much to know!"

[BlueIris]

55. Yep. I wouldn't be alive today without my college education.

And having the degree has actually made it 1,000 times harder to get and remain gainfully employed, because of the rampant anti-intellectual bias Oregon's employers are allowed to use to engage in blatant hiring discrimination against those who have received education--and no, I don't just mean those who have earned a Bachelor's or better. That disgusting and pervasive attitude has left me a veritable pauper since graduation, but I would gladly do it all over again, even though getting even one degree out of my university practically killed me (and no, I'm not exaggerating).

If I hadn't learned the things I still believe it is only possible to learn via participation in higher education about society, art, literature, science, language, culture and the history of ideas--I simply wouldn't have known enough about the world to survive in the post-Bush era. Once again, I am not exaggerating. The value of education is education. A college education is part of becoming an intelligent, emotionally mature, culturally literate human being. I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't understand that.

Of course, I feel even sorrier for anyone who doesn't understand how brutally difficult it is for most to even think about trying to get into, let alone pay for, college of any variety. That's an opportunity that increasingly fewer individuals get to have. Anyone who was given or made that opportunity available to themselves should cherish it.

[Rabrrrrrr]

57. One of the very best things about college was being around people

who were asking similar questions.

So much of what I learned was in the casual chats/arguments/debates in the cafeteria, or in the common area after a class, or over late night beers.

That's one thing I really miss about the college and grad school environment: being around people who are thinking about the same stuff, asking questions, and who desperately want to understand more. Bouncing ideas off other students and discussing them - that was worth the entire cost of the education right there. I learned far more from fellow students than from the classes (though the classes were not without value: the classes were what gave me the ability and insight and depth of knowledge to see where I was ignorant and, therefore, to ask the questions).

[Broken_Hero]

58. no

The reason why I went back to college was because every decent job I tried getting said "If you don't have your degree you can't get a job, you worthless punk"...:)

So, I went back to college to finish up my degree, which I got my AA, but didn't complete my BA program. Now, i'm a sub teacher, earning nickels and dimes, and can't get anyone to look at me for employment purposes. My wife's company on the other hand, has had a huge surge for all its management to have BA's, so now she is completing her BA program via the online university route.

When I was in college, I did expand my horizon's and take some courses that weren't in my degree program....:)

[Throd]

59. Nobody cares if or where I went to college

But I suppose it depends on what line of work you are looking to get into. I work as a graphic designer, so my abilities are immediately quantifiable. I can think of a lot of other pursuits where I might want to see some credentials.

[jane_pippin]

62. Yes, I think so.

I went to a big university right out of high school and I hated it, (for a variety of reasons). I was there for about 3 1/2 years, and I did alright with grades--I even got a 4.0 one semester. But, I ended up skipping class all the time--partly because I was exhausted from working two jobs and attempting to be in school full time, and partly because I just disliked the courses and people in them--and eventually I dropped out for a year.

Instead of going back to that school after a year, I transferred to a tiny school and loved it. It was so much more engaging, interesting, and challenging and the other people there weren't just there because they had to be, they were there because they wanted to be. Instead of failing out, which I was headed toward at the other school, I graduated with honors.

Now, I'm not saying it was better because of it's size. It was just better for me because their approach to education was much more in tune with what I valued as a student. And, even though I hated the university, I'm still glad I went so that I could be exposed to a more traditional college experience.

So yeah, I'd still go if I didn't "need" to because I learned that I do like to be engaged in academic work. I like its challenges and I enjoy challenging myself to learn and apply new ideas.

Damn. I sound like a recruitment brochure. Keep in mind that none of this touchy feely crap would apply if I was ridiculously independently wealthy. I'd still go, but I'd go just to take classes and write things I know I'd never get away with if my grade mattered. Like, papers for a communications class titled "Advertising: Catchy Scourge" or "Fanny Packs as Evidence of Cultural Entropy." Goofy shit like that. :D