Hugh Hefner: Bold Innovator or Exploitative Pimp?

[Philosoraptor]

The venerable bon viv ant of Playboy and it's massive empire he created over the decades Hugh Hefner is quite aged but still smiling.

He has often been written about as if he was one of the single individuals responsible for huge social changes and attitudes about sexuality, some see this as good, some see it as negative.

Where do you stand on the Bunny Man?

[SteppingRazor]

1. both n/t

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

2. He makes my skin crawl...and not in a good way.

:puke:

And I agree with the poster above...he is both.

[Greyhound]

3. Not too bold, I'd give that adjective to Larry Flint, as HH frequently

backed down from the controversies his pub generated. Exploitive pimp, definitely.

[Hemperor]

5. agreed. but hugh gets the style points (nt)

[noonwitch]

44. Yeah, but the people in Hustler at least look like they are having fun

Playboy is filled with beautiful, naked women with vacant smiles on their faces.

Hustler has layouts showing sexual activity and, as I said, the people in them look like they are having fun. The "Asshole of the Month" column is usually dead-on. I just think that the "Beaver Hunt" is particularly tasteless.

It's porn, so it's all disgusting.

[Ron Green]

4. I vote both as well.

He did lots for civil rights and pushed an agenda that supported good music and good taste, but ran roughshod over feminism and sustainability.

[treestar]

6. Started out as bold innovator, by now is an exploitative pimp

He may have changed attitudes for the good in some ways, but there are others in which the attitudes have changed for the bad. It's good not to be as secretive and having the subject be so taboo, bad that it seems to be on over-reaction mode. People have sex too soon now to a point where it is getting meaningless - I could go for a little more conservatism there - not Victorian or 1950s levels, but just having it kept to more serious relationships - now it's a joke. I realize this cannot be forced on other people and should not be law and that each person decides for themselves, just talking about a more ideal society's views.

[NYCGirl]

7. I think Hefner was indeed an agent for change, but I'd credit Larry Flynt

when it comes to First Amendment issues.

[pokerfan]

40. Word

"but I'd credit Larry Flynt when it comes to First Amendment issues"

I agree. People forget that the Supreme Court case was over a cartoon mocking Jerry Fallwell, not over obscene photos.

[Crankie Avalon]

8. A little of both.

He came along at a time when America was quite uptight and loosened things up a little. Of course, his "contribution" was all for the men and nothing much for the women.

Besides, it seems like we've come almost full circle in some ways--for a while now, it seems America has been moving toward becoming a more and more uptight place, again.

[misternormal]

9. As far as I know...

... he didn't get rich by getting people killed, or by fleecing the poor... he published a magazine that was available to buy, or not to buy... Just like not liking a TV program, that's what the remote control is for...

Don't like what he publishes, don't buy it. As most red blooded American males, I spent some of my post-pubescent time smiling at the air-brushed beauties that graced the magazine's centerfold.

[Philosoraptor]

10. As a yoot, those air brushed babes turned me on too.

But now I just see them as cartoon characters, they don't get me motivated cause they all look like heff's fantasy girl. I prefer real looking ladies.

[kay1864]

12. Seriously though, there's airbrushing, and then there's AIRBRUSHING

Playboy does what I'd call "light airbrushing"--a mole here, a wrinkle there. But they don't change their overall appearance. The models do look like themselves (I've met lots of them).

Then there's the airbrushing like I've seen on a few photographers' websites (where they have before-and-after examples), where breasts are enlarged, curves added, faces changed. Scary.

[glarius]

11. I find it rather pathetic that a man of his "maturity" hangs out with

a threesome of young, seemingly empty-headed, sexpots. Does he really believe these young women would be with him if not for his fame?

[idgiehkt]

13. I wonder if he's normal

I mean, if you asked men his age if they could have what he's got without having to make any other sacrifices of any kind in exchange, how many would say no?

Does he not believe in love? Does he love the women he's with? They are all adorable in their own way. It scares me to think, what if he's just really, really honest. I mean, I don't want to insult men here, but what if he's just telling a truth? I'm just in wonderment about him, he's a pretty fascinating character. I thought it was sad when Barbi Benton was on The Girls Next Door flirting with him in a kind of desperate way...he doesn't seem to want women after they are a certain age, like 25 or so. Is that honesty on his part, is it representative of some larger male truth, or does he have some mental deformity...questions, questions, questions.

[misternormal]

16. Image... Image... Image... n/t

[idgiehkt]

17. he's doing this so he'll have a good image?

that's all it's about?

[misternormal]

19. No... To sell magazines... make mucho dinero... That's it... n/t

[idgiehkt]

22. isn't he already really, really rich?

I think his house is so dark and ugly. In fact, it's fugly. It's so tight. I guess he likes tight, lol, but it's not something like on MTV cribs...there's barely room to move, the bed is too small (according to the girls) and there is NO light in there. I wonder if he's a penny-pincher. But then why would you have so many girlfriends? Of course, he did get rid of four. And maybe 3 girlfriends is cheaper than one divorce for him. And his kid lives next door with that playmate he married, so that's another expense. But you don't think this is all an act do you?

[misternormal]

24. He probably has a salary from...

... the magazine since he is actually retired, and his daughter runs the show now...

His lifestyle is not something that I would enjoy... he can toss me some of his loot though, I am sure I could think of a lot of things to do with it... Playboy is a large empire, with a lot of employees, that are getting paid well... so... If that is what he chooses to do, so be it.

[kay1864]

20. Well, he SAYS he loves the women he's with...

Who's to say? I'll admit his gf's don't seem to be his intellectual equal though.

As for Barbi Benton, I didn't interpret it as her flirting desperately with him, but rather her enjoying some time with someone that she was in a relationship with for years, and that she remained friends with. I don't think she really thought they could have another fling.

[idgiehkt]

23. I did, honey.

Maybe that's just cuz I'm female but I could see so much longing in her eyes and she totally had her claws out when talking about the other girls. She slammed Holly several times and Bridget once. I don't think she had much to say about Kendra but Kendra's hard to knock. That episode was almost painful for me in fact, it was like I kept wanting to look away.

[kay1864]

27. Well, admittedly it's been awhile since I saw that episode...

but I read her "slams" (which IIRC were Barbi asking Holly if she could cook) as her making fun of Hef's choice of such obvious bimbos. Almost like she couldn't believe Hef's taste had descended from her (in the 60's) to airheads now. But it came across like an innocent question, not claws out.

And her question obviously hit home, since in a later episode Holly made a painful attempt to grill a hamburger. It was IMHO sad to see 27-year-old Holly acting like a high school freshman trying to impress the senior football team captain.

[idgiehkt]

28. ouch.

I don't know too much about Barbi Benton, but I didn't think she was a Mensa candidate. I just felt sorry for her. I know it is hard to hold it together when you are pining for someone (I am right now, and I'm about to send a pathetic e-mail) so I shouldn't judge Barbi, but I just wish she hadn't been so obviously envious of them. She kind of treated them like kids. Holly seems really in love with Hef and obviously wants to marry him. Wow, I didn't know Holly was 27. That's old for Hef, right? I think Bridgit may be in her 30's then maybe. I noticed Barbie said "so do you still sleep with Bridgit?" to Hef right in front of Bridgit. I thought that was really mean. I don't know why she had to act that way, I wish she could have acted less threatened by them. Do you think the women are less of bimbos than Barbi Benton was? (that's a serious question, not sarcasm at all).

[kay1864]

42. Well Barbi does have a little bit of brains...

although probably not Mensa :) She did find the mansion in LA (the original Playboy Mansion was in Chicago), and knew it would be perfect for Hef. IIRC she directed some of the remodeling. She convinced Hef to move to LA, and also to take his only trip to Europe. I can't imagine Holly trying to convince Hef to do anything.

I missed the Bridgit comment (been a while since I saw that episode). That certainly does sound catty.

And Barbi seems to have a bit more self-respect/confidence than the blondes--she dumped Hef after his cheating on her with Karen Christy became too blatant (AFAIK no one has dumped Hef since then). She's been married since 1979, and is now an interior decorator.

I agree, it does seem like Holly wants to marry Hef. I don't get the sense he does though. Especially since he'd have to divorce Kimberley first.

[idgiehkt]

46. wow. I'm getting educated.

I didn't know he didn't like to travel, or that he wasn't divorced from the other woman. I know that Brigit has several degrees, including a masters degree in something. I think Holly has at least one bachelors degree. Kendra does't come across as stupid at all even though I don't know what her educational goals are. I didn't know about his history with Barbie, I just thought once the women get a certain age he kicks them to the curb. I know he said he'd never have a monogamous relationship again because of how painful the one with Kimberly was. When he had the original seven women in there I know one of them was an attorney. I think Barbie still has a thang for him.

[kay1864]

48. Yep...

he's still legally married to Kimberley Conrad.

Per Wikipedia, Bridget has two degrees, a bachelor's in communication studies and a master's in communication.

There's no mention of Holly's degree on Wikipedia. imdb says she "studied theater and psychology at Portland State University", but doesn't say if she finished. Both mentioned that she was working as a Hawaiian Tropic model in LA at age 20 when she met Hef, and that she's been in LA since then. So I'm guessing she didn't finish at Portland State.

Kendra is a high school graduate.

It's not so much the gf's getting to a certain age, but rather that Hef and his gf's drift apart after a couple of years, or often he meets a new gf (which could of course result in drifting apart from the old one). My understanding is that he does stay friends with most of them (many still attend Mansion parties).

Are you sure that one of the seven was an attorney? I know Victoria Zdrok is, but she wasn't one of the seven.

[misternormal]

15. Of course not...

... Hef may be an old perv, but he ain't stupid... and at his age, who cares???

I'm sure that he's cryin' all the way to the bank, with a "sex-pot" on each arm...

[glarius]

21. I still say...it's pathetic!

His life seems so shallow and meaningless to me.

[GalleryGod]

32. That's Why Spago has menus.

Different choices for different folks.
Hef at 40 made Mark Cuban look like Little Lord Fauntleroy.:rofl:

[CanuckAmok]

39. Of course he doesn't.

But the man's no fool.

Greedy sexpots want to hang out with him because of "X", and if he didn't have "X", they wouldn't be caught dead with him.

But he has "X", so he gets to hang out with greedy sexpots.

He likes greedy sexpots, greedy sexpots like "X".

Who loses in this equasion? Nobody.

[LTR]

51. At 80 years old...

who gives a shit?

:evilgrin:

[Vidar]

14. Both

[Crabby Appleton]

18. Both n/t

[trof]

25. My dad's "Playboy" was Esquire.

I'm 65 (almost).
Esquire went from kinda girly (Oh those Vargus pinups!) to more 'literary'.
Playboy came on the scene as the "new" Esquire. REAL nudes and litachure too.
They had a damned good cooking section too. It became 'cool' for guys to cook, and just not charring flesh on the barbie.

In my teens and 20s Playboy and the male image it portrayed was the epitome of cool.
To actually visit a Playboy club was mecca for the Sinatra/Rat-Pack wannabe crowd.
Now it's outlived its time and seems kind of pathetic to me.

[idgiehkt]

26. what sucked for me was that Weezer video for Beverly Hills

alternative music is officially dead. If the Playboy mansion is a suitable place for a video like that, what does it say about either. All the ladies there seem to look the same. Oh, have you heard of the knock-off Hugh Hefner guy that has a mansion full of women that haven't had any breast implants? He doesn't like plastic surgery. They were all pretty cute too. Not so over the top like the playmates. It hurts to look at some of the playmate breasts, all I can think is 'ow'.

[Blue_Tires]

29. all his women look the same, so where is the innovation?

now, Guccione, THAT was an innovator (before he pissed everything away)

[leftofthedial]

30. bold, innovative pimp

[GalleryGod]

31. Cutting Edge Entrepreneur. Guts. Energy. Focus.

54 years ago, folks. *










* Save your pornography and chauvinist pig comments for somebody who actually CARES.:nuke:

[Nicole]

33. Both n/t

[Bryan]

34. Both

It won't be mistaken for Harper's, but you really can read Playboy just for the articles.

The "Playboy Forum" section is as good an overview of civil-liberties issues as you'll find in American publishing, and it also boasts interesting interviews and fine original fiction (in its five decades, the 'boy has published John Irving, John Updike, Lawrence Block, Harlan Ellison, Elmore Leonard, Robert Silverberg, Ray Bradbury, Donald E. Westlake, Ed McBain/Evan Hunter, John D. McDonald, T.C. Boyle, Philip Roth, Joyce Carol Oates, David Mamet, Jorge Luis Borges, Margaret Atwood, Saul Bellow, Joseph Heller, Kurt Vonnegut, Shel Silverstein, Ursula Le Guin, Doris Lessing, Vladimir Nabokov, and Arthur C. Clarke, among many others, in addition to once having a reasonably classy book-publishing arm which published-among other books-Lenny Bruce's How to Talk Dirty and Influence People).

[MrScorpio]

35. Bold Innovator

All the models are willing participants

[Oeditpus Rex]

36. And well-paid, one might add

So who's exploiting whom? :shrug:

[MrScorpio]

38. Right

Most of these models are proud of their Playboy affiliation, which is encouraged as long as they don't go into hardcore porn or prostitution

Playboy was critcal for encouraging the Sexual Revolution

[Broken_Hero]

37. Both...

I believe...but I think he did more good, than bad...

[Tsiyu]

41. He did a lot for men

sort of defining sexuality for them in a very narrow way that men rarely argue against.

He was one of the first to disassemble sex. Sex is only done with (or staring at pictures of) very attractive women under 22. Attractive meaning large-breasted, no zits, come-hither expression.

In this version of human sexuality, there is no disease or pregnancy, in fact pregnancy is a mere joke or the fodder for a cartoon. Even though, if you want to celebrate ALL of female sexuality, if you really want to be innovative and enhance couples' sex lives (as he's been credited with doing) you would come down (no pun intended) off the fantasy cloud and embrace ALL of sexuality.

To me he represents the ultimate fantasy of the greedy patriarch. The fantasy has sold well to millions of men. But his "vision" is rather stale and narrow and in truth he set humans back a few decades when it comes to understanding sexuality and enjoying sex. IMHO of course.

[cc488is]

43. Great American

Saw a niche, filled it, made a fortune. Brings a tear to my eye.

[progmom]

45. he loves and promotes jazz

I think he's just fine.

[bridgit]

50. e-yup...

:-)

[Taverner]

47. Neither. Just a man who knew how to market

Playboy is not about the nudes. Any regular reader will tell you this.

It certainly would not classify as "porn"

They dedicate maybe 10% of their magazine to nudes, maybe another 10% to sex discussion, and then the other 80% to lifestyle.

Now I fully agree with the Playboy Hedonist Philosophy, but there was nothing groundbreaking about it, and Hef certainly didn't start any important fights. At the risk of going all Mel Gibson, think of him as Robert the Bruce to Larry Flynt's William Wallace.

[bridgit]

49. with an initial outlay of $600, better make 'bold innovative pimp'...

pimp-lite though by comparison to now times

[ScreamingMeemie]

52. Neither. Hugh Hefner= RELATIVE. My husband's 2nd cousin, once

removed. :P Truth even.

[kay1864]

53. So, have you

been to the Mansion yet?

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. Never met the man. Too many relatives in between.

MrG's family is Hugh!1! :)