The fundie went and did it!

[hyphenate]

My fundie soon to be ex-friend actually went to Kentucky, met up with this "minister" she's only known online and on the phone for six months, and married him the day she got there. Am I wrong to assume that she's gone batshit crazy?

[haf216]

1. I can see the headlines now...

Online wife kills new husbeen....or new husbeen kills online wife

[SeattleGirl]

2. She's not necesssarily crazy.

Not that I would EVER want to marry a fundy minister (or "minister", if he's a fake), but neither would I discount how people meet, or the connection they develop, even if it seems to be out of the ordinary. If people mesh, if they connect, then they connect. Who knows how deep their conversations were, what ground they covered. Sure, it could backfire bigtime on both of them, but on the other hand, it could be a perfect match, and they could have a truly good, happy marriage.

[hyphenate]

4. Just being a fundie

makes her that much closer to the batshit crazy stage, IMO. Marrying this guy and not telling anyone--her daughter, her brothers, any of her relatives or even her best friend just kind of confirms she's being a complete and utter lunatic. :)

Yes--I know some people who have met online and are very happy with their choices. But ever since she got involved with that fundie group, she's lost her total sense of reality. According to BOTH her and this guy, GOD chose each other for them.

[SeattleGirl]

6. Well, with that additional information, I would definitely

wonder about her state of mind. Not even telling her kid, or family? Hmmmm. What's she afraid of, I wonder? That they WOULD question this? If I met someone that way and we felt strong enough abouteach other to get married, I wouldn't be afraid to tell my family.

[hyphenate]

7. My thoughts exactly

I don't think she's been in her right mind for a very long time, especially since her mother passed away last year. She's since gone out (and we're talking about a 57 year old woman) gotten tattoos all relating to Jesus, from her neck to her back and more. I mean, tats are okay, and I've thought about one, but we're talking about someone who was a professional, someone who was a teacher and then became a coordinator for difficult kids in the school system. The one on her neck, especially, was a bizarre move.

[Floogeldy]

10. What does telling her kid or family have to do with it?

Don't discount how people meet or what connection they may develop, although it seems out of the ordinary. Perhaps they mesh? If they connect, then so be it. We do not know about what they talked, what issues were discussed, or how deeply. They may be like Romeo and Juliet!

:)

[SeattleGirl]

11. I wasn't discounting how they met. I was just saying that if

it were me, I would tell my family.

[Floogeldy]

12. Agreed

If I knew you or your family and you pulled that shit, I would tell your family too! ;)

[Courtesy Flush]

16. When you "connect" it can be misleading

Instant connections feel really good, and sometimes they may work out, but that connection, at least at first, means nothing. People with anti-social personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder can "connect" with people instantly, then move on and forget about them.

My Mom had histrionic personality disorder. It wasn't uncommon for her to end up exchanging email addresses and hugs with her waitress, or any stranger she met, then she'd forget all about it the next day.

Connections need the test of time (at least a little time) to have any meaing.

[u4ic]

3. I think she was batshit crazy to move there

Marriage?

Zo...what is the stage after batshit crazy called? :crazy:

[Richard Steele]

8. I think the stage after that is usually "film at 11:00".

[Whoa_Nelly]

5. Maybe keep in contact with her...you could be her lifeline

if this "minister" turns out to be a real whack job. She's been your friend, so hang in there if you think she may need you in a day, a week, a month from now.

Could be because of her current fundamentalist beliefs, she's allowing this guy to lead her into what he wants with the "God chose us to be together" crap.

She may be fundy-style batshit crazy, but he could be the real lunatic.

Be there for her if you can...and, at the very least, tell her family where she is and who she's with.

The whole thing stinks :hug:

[hyphenate]

9. Thanks

I did tell her, already, that she was a fool, but she went ahead and did it anyway. She wants to meet up after she gets back--she has to come back for at least a month to settle everything up here--but I only want some of my stuff back. And the amusing part is going to be to see how she's going to take 5 dogs with her down there and all her belongings. And I thought I was bad on my move back cross country--she's going to need a full 53' truck to move all of hers!

[Whoa_Nelly]

13. Sounds like you really dislike her

And this is more about you personally, than about her being your friend.

Sorry...just making an observation...

[hyphenate]

14. Not really

I've been her friend through thick and thin. When I was living in California, I was the one to keep the friendship going--if I had had to rely on her, we would never have talked at all because she would never call.

We've been as close as sisters for over 20 years. But she had a severe depression, and she became involved with this new bible religious group which is what she felt kept her from getting worse in her depression. It happened about 7 years ago. I never got involved, because I thought whatever worked for her was fine. But I never realized how far these groups would go to take her soul along the way. I guess I underestimated the sheer force this kind of zealotry involves.

I have never hated her, but I have, over time, become impatient and fed up with her behavior. She has been a remarkable woman, in fact, she was one of the originators of the program in the school system for which she worked, in getting the disturbed and violent students integrated into the mainstream. She spent many years getting these kids ready for that, and of that she can be proud.

Because of her intelligence, I guess I figured that she would overcome this dumbing down--this return to the rigid and arcane philosophy of the fundie world, but instead, she got pulled further and further into it, and now I see her as lost. Instead, she feels "sorry" for ME, for being so involved with atheism and my hatred of the world she now inhabits. But try to say anothing about causes such as gay rights, a woman's right to choose, the fights in the Middle East, or anything else in that line, and she immediately attacks me and my positions. She will quote from the bible about the "solutions" instead of using her head, placing any blame or hatred upon what is written there, and not on herself. It's a convenient way to push blame elsewhere, I guess. And she speaks freely of such nonsense as the "Rapture" and all that shit that fundies and creationists push in their fanatical hatred of the rest of us. She even spoke openly that Israel had to be taken and saved for the Jews so that the "end days" could follow.

In the last argument we had, she said she believed that the bible was the true interpretation of Jesus's life when I told her that it was the result of many different authors, not the least of which was a ruling class which justified some things to keep control over a servant and slave class, and that it was meant as allegory. Then when I mentioned evolution, she said she would not believe anything written by men. A total and complete contradiction, and one I've seen other fundies make over my acquaintance with them. It's like all the contradictory passages mean nothing to them--they will always find an adequate passage for their position, even as other people will tell them that it says one thing in one place, and something totally different in another.

But no, I don't hate her. If she were in her right mind, she would have never done what she has done, in fact alienating many members of her own family as well as me. When her mom died last year, she stopped speaking to her oldest brother completely, and severed all connections with her nephews and nieces on his side of the family, and in fact, except for a very rare occasion, she stopped attending all family functions and moved (figuratively) away from all family as well. She became more isolated and less inclined to socialize.

I just wish that she had had the ability to resist the nonsense poured into her, but I guess that she was desperate for something to put her mind at ease, and this is how it manifested. I don't subscribe to any other theory that funieism is anything more than a cult, though, because that's how it gets its members to submit to the most ignorant of positions and beliefs. I feel in some ways my rejection of her current actions might have made an impact, but unfortunately, she's been so sucked into it all that losing her best friend, even after 22 years, isn't as important to her as it might have once been.

[Whoa_Nelly]

21. Thanks for replying

Hopefully, barring something terrible happening to her in marrying this guy, she will come around and at least get real help instead of zealot fundy "help".

You have been a good friend, and I do understand the getting fed up with the religious blindness she's adopted. Hope you update when she returns to get her stuff.

My apologies for sounding harsh. You answered admirably, and really gave me better insight to the whole situation.

Thanks :hug:

[hyphenate]

22. Thanks

When I returned home to Massachusetts, I looked forward to spending time with my two best friends. One, Marje, who helped fund my trip back, had been terminally ill, and died 4 months after I returned, which gave me so little time with her. I guess I relied more on Barb after Marje died, but even then Barb seemed a little cool. Her mom was still alive, but she was not well, and she and I took some trips together where she told me that Barb was getting distant. I didn't know everything that was going on, so I couldn't say anything. Two years later, when her mom passed away, Barb went crazy. She took out a second mortgage on the house (which was paid for) and went wild spending money. This was a year ago May. I had gotten a small settlement on my disability and last summer, we made some trips, as I tried to keep her mind busy. But I guess it didn't help. She returned to her usual haunts and after the summer was over, she started to go back into her gloom.

Her daughter is the one who gave her the website address, and around January, she started to hook-up with this guy. After that, things went even further downhill, and counting on her for anything became not only difficult, but downright impossible. Even if I called her several times over the course of days on both her cell and home phone, she never answered and would never return calls either. I guess it's pretty miserable to expect a call from someone you don't know for sure will ever call, but I'm an optimist, and I had hope.

The situation had gotten untenable, and that's when I finally got totally fed up. It's really difficult to keep a friendship alive when one half of the equation isn't listening anymore. I figured that this thing online was going to go away eventually, so I hung in. When I heard she was going to marry him, I realized it was too late for me to say anything or do anything that would change her mind, and that she was irretrievably lost to me and common sense.

Anyhow, that's it. The friendship turned toxic because she wasn't willing to listen, nor is she capable of reasoning anymore. Despite everything, though, I feel sorry for her. I really hope nothing happens to her, but she's made her own bed, so she needs to lay in it.

[Deep13]

15. No, you're not wrong.

[RevCheesehead]

17. Fundies get married so they can have sex.

No surprise there.

But when it falls apart, she may need help in picking up the pieces.

[hyphenate]

18. If she wants help then

I might give it to her. But I have vowed to stay out of her life as long as she's entrenched in the fundie mindset. Nothing good will come from me until then. She accused me of having "hate" problems with her, and on that one count I do. I have never met a fundie that I liked, nor will I.

[RevCheesehead]

19. It's almost cult-like, isn't it?

That's what's so horribly frightening about them.

[hyphenate]

20. Completely

And I really don't see a difference between them and most any other cult out there. As it happens, I have already decided to write a book on the subject (though it will take a while) and used that as part of the working title: "A Lesser God: The Cult of Fundamentalism." The "lesser god" being a god who instills fear in his worshippers, who says it's all right to kill as long as you do it in my name, and you may love your fellow man just as long as it's under my terms. That god represents the worst of humanity, not the best, and can never be anyone I would worship.

The fundies might be increasing in numbers, but it's because they've scared the shit out of a lot of reasonable people. It's not that they have that persuasive an argument, but because they yell louder and more shrilly than everyone else.

[Whoa_Nelly]

23. I think along with all the reasons you stated

re: people joining the fundie cult, is the inherent need of most people to be accepted and to "belong". The fundie cults use that as leverage in very subtle ways, luring people in, making them part of "the group", then brow-beating them using coercion, guilt to give up their worldly goods and money to that particular church, where the owners of the church are the only ones who really benefit.

Here's one I hate with a vengeance due to personal reasons that involve my family, (and fortunately, said family members have since left this cult, and have pretty much done a 180 in their live.) However, this cult continues to slander my family from the pulpit to show the error of straying from Jay-Zuz and their church as an example to their (dwindling) flock.

Oh! And they take sample ballots, fill in the bubbles for who the flock MUST vote for, hand them out at service, preach it from the pulpit, and take and make phone calls to remind the sheeple who to vote for in all elections from local to national levels. :grrr:

These people are lower than pond scum:
http://www.rivdal.org/



And here are the Loyal Fundie Repubs coming from their church to support the Freepers for War

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1677556/posts

[hyphenate]

24. A lot of it is definitely built on mind control

Because people, like you said, have a desire to be part of a family, regardless of how dysfunctional that family really is. Barb came from such a real dysfunctional household, with a tyrannical father, a submissive mother and two older brothers. Her father treated her like dirt for most of her life. The problem with that sad story is it's all too common, and not everyone turns into a fundie. My own family was pretty dysfunctional, too--Dad was an alcoholic, though he did manage to hold a job without trouble, Mom worked at least one job, but often two jobs, and there were enough fruity aunts and uncles to make it all pretty much the picture of confusion, alcoholism and worse. My sister, the youngest, suffered the most--Mom confessed to me many years ago that when my sister was a child that my dad molested her. She eventually became an alcoholic herself, a smoker and a drug addict. And he used to beat me for such things as listening to the radio, and verbally abused me quite a bit. But somehow or another, I managed to survive, fairly intact, without any addictions, except for perhaps, one to food!

But I think that there are a lot of people who grow up very lonely and alone, and don't feel like there is anyone for them to lean on. These people are so vulnerable that they will do anyhing to change that, including allowing themselves to become part of something that completely envelopes them and separates them from the rest of society. And people go for it, ignoring all the suspicious things they might see, simply because it gives them a chance to not be alone anymore. In my own life, being alone is the one thing I like best, and there has never been a need for me to "belong" somewhere else. And I do tend to view everything suspicious with an eye toward rejection. It's part of why I left the Catholic church when I was very young, and why organized religion means nothing to me. Too many rules, not enough real answers, and profits all going to make the church even more rich. I met this woman whose husband was planning to be a minister, and the pastor at their church invited him and his wife to look behind the scenes of the church. What they learned was incredible. The pastor admitted to preaching to the people exactly what they wanted to hear, regardless of how absurd it was. He indicated that monetary reasons were the sole motivating factor, and not the preaching of "the lord's work." The church was afraid they would lose parishioners if they changed that. And so it's with most current churches that I see a similar pattern, and it's not a very good indication of honesty and clarity.

I was once told that before the middle of this century, all fundies would be gone, not because of a "rapture" but because people would eventually abandon the church as reason took over. I would like to think this is true, but somehow I doubt it will happen. Too many nutcases out there, and too many people who are gullible and in need of something they feel they don't have. The movement will get smaller though, and we will have a better chance of ousting such a group when we can change regimes. Until then, there is a lot of havoc and evil that we must endure, unfortunately.