Though you are a progressive liberal have you ever

[Hardrada]

felt like telling someone you know to quit bitching about having no money and to do some work for a change?

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Hell yes. Nothing unprogressive about that.

In fact, I *have* told people that.

Of course, not everyone can be told that, but yes, there are some people I've encountered who were simply bitchers.

[Hardrada]

2. Thanks, I'm glad I'm not alone here on this.

I've always had this idea that it is wrong to prod people from their lethargy because it would make me a Dickensian villain. But I think I have become less patient as time goes on.

[texas1928]

3. Clinton said it all the time.

Better to have someone collecting a paycheck then a welfare check.

[Hardrada]

6. One example I can think of is my acquaintance

who is a bookseller supposedly but never goes to the effort to sell any of his books so he never has any money when he goes to auctions where books are for sale. And each and every time he complains he can't afford to buy anything! Like there is no cause and effect relationship. It drives me bananas.

[Floogeldy]

4. I am not a progressive liberal.

I hate fucking government and think all it should do is provide for our general welfare and our defense.

Or am I?

;)

[Hardrada]

12. LOL. That sounds familiar.

[ChaoticSilly]

5. Yes

I had a co-worker who would give his entire paycheck to his "girlfriend" (who would then give the money to her real boyfriend) and then ask to borrow money for gas and lunch. After his tab got up to around $100, I finally told him he needed to spend his check on himself & quit asking to borrow money.

[Hardrada]

7. This co-worker is at least doing some labor but does not sound

all that bright.

[NMMNG]

8. Yes

Call me what you want, but I have little sympathy for able bodied/minded people who refuse to work then whine about money.

[Skittles]

9. I honetly don't know people like this

the people I know with no money all work full time

[Tyler Durden]

24. You and me both.

People do not realize that it is harder than HELL to get assistance if you're able bodied, and if you can't get assistance, you either beg or starve.

I don't know now, or have I known in the past, anyone who could work but chose against it to stay in the "Lap of Welfare Luxury."

[petronius]

10. A difference between liberals and conservatives is that

liberals recognize that lazy whiners with no money should be told to shut up and take some responsibility. Conservatives believe that everyone with no money is a lazy whiner.

[Hardrada]

11. I think you've nailed it there.

And we care about these people too and try not to write them off as lost causes and unreconstructible sponges.

[Arger68]

25. Excellent post. Thank you. n/t

[Telly Savalas]

35. That and conservatives support tax cuts for lazy whiners with money.

[zcflint09]

13. Amen

I'm all for helping people that need it--such as the disabled or others with conditions that makes them unable to work--but able bodied individuals who can go out and get work and don't, then complain about a lack of cash can shove it up thier a**. They're only harming the true individuals that need things like welfare and food stamps.

[Hardrada]

14. And they give the social reactionaries some horrible examples

to use so they can have an excuse to flog all the poor.

[Robeson]

15. Actually, no. People I know who can work, do work....

...even if it's for shit wages in Amerikka.

[mduffy31]

16. I say that all the time

I hate when people who are able bodied are bitching that they are not getting enough welfare, or that they can't get anything but a minimum wage job w/o an education. I say get your shit together, got to school learn a trade for god's sake and get out there and make a decent living for yourself. What I need from the government is for them to make buisness pay people a living wage. I being a nurse make a nice living for myself but it cost me lots of money to get there, and I am still in debt, not everyone may be willing to do that.

[skygazer]

26. Yes, it's so easy to just run out and go to school

Have you ever been poor? I mean, really poor. So poor that you don't even have enough money to pay your bills, let along anything extra? How do you really expect people to "get their shit together" when they truly can't find a job that pays them enough to keep a roof over their heads, feed themselves and their children, keep a piece of crap car on the road long enough to get them to their dead end, low paying, no benefits job? Do you have any idea what kind of vicious cycle that is?

There are plenty of people out there who can barely fill out a job application. Is that their fault? There are people who have no social skills because of a poverty stricken upbringing, lousy teeth, poor grammar, old clothes. People don't hire people like that and they don't welcome them with open arms into their school either, even if those people had any idea whatsoever how to go about applying for school, acquiring financial aid, deciding on a major.

There's more to getting out of poverty than simply "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" and "getting your shit together." So many of the people who appear to be able bodied have huge issues, years of failure under their belt, a climate of loserdom. And the programs that help people like that - the job training programs, the adult literacy programs, the resume writing workshops, etc. are always the first things cut when the budget axe falls.

Sure, there are always a few people running around who are just plain lazy. But the majority of people out there simply want to earn their keep and support their families. This thread is starting to sound like Reagan's "welfare queen" rants.

[Juffo Wup]

29. "a climate of loserdom"

Eh, what? We shouldn't expect people who feel bad about failing to try to find work? After I got my Master's (in engineering), I spent six (6) months scrounging around doing temporary manual labor for dogshit wages while still trying to find a more permanent job. I felt pretty bad, should I have just given up at that point and expect everyone else to take care of me?

That's all most people here are asking. At least try, and not sit around waiting for someone else to help you. No one here is bitching about "welfare queens" or whatever other stereotype the right-wing likes using. This is about those people, and we all know them, who whine that they make bad wages even though they have no education, s if they are entitled to make six figures a year simply because they were born, or who are so picky about jobs that unless they get the ABSOLUTELY PERFECT OFFER, they just continue sitting on their ass, or who just think that they shouldn't have to work at all because it gets in the way of funtime.

[skygazer]

31. Well, obviously we're talking about two different types of people

But I do get irritated when people assume so much about others. I try not to judge too people too closely - I have no idea what their life or history may be like. The poster I replied to made a comment about those who had no education and implied that they should simply go out and get one. I pointed out that for a lot of people, it's not that simple. The "climate of loserdom" comment does not apply to your case - anyone who has a Master's in Engineering is not going to feel like a lifetime failure, no matter how many months they search for a job. I was talking about people who have NEVER once in their lives had anything worth having. And it's those people who suffer when others get all worked up about the "lazy" people in our midst who sit around and collect welfare instead of going out and getting a job and "getting their shit together."

I've been poor. I've been homeless. I've stood in line, hat in hand, at the welfare office, feeling like dirt, like a fucking beggar, and I've known those other people who stood in line with me. And most of them wanted nothing more than to work a normal job like other people, and live a normal life like other people but they didn't have any of the skills to do so and no one was helping them to do anything more than to collect a check.

I was lucky. I had a background that allowed me to see that there are ways out. A lot of people don't. And those are the people I was talking about.

[SKKY]

17. I saw a bumper sticker once...

...It read, "Visualize getting off your hippie ass and getting a job!" I loved it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. Of course. Although lazy bums are MUCH less prevalent than the RW tells ya

they DO exist.

[seemunkee]

19. Yes, and not just to my kids

Friend who has a Masters in which he could get a well paying job. He is in his late twenties and has never been employed except while he was a student in England. Another friend of mine who is quite successful in the field offered him a position but was turned down. It wasn't quite in the sub-field he wanted.
He's a conservative too.

[catbert836]

20. I have felt like it.

But I've never actually done it. I try my best not to judge people, and in addition, people usually get touchy when talking about their financial situation. It doesn't work as well as the right wing thinks it does.

[Midlodemocrat]

21. You are currently preaching to the choir.

Me, at least. Too long and involved to go into, but yes, that is exactly how I feel about this particular person right now.

[Bunny]

22. Why is it un-liberal to expect people to, in general, work for a living?

Work gives dignity, and there is dignity in all work. :shrug:

[Tyler Durden]

23. Not to anyone over the age of 16...

I seriously cannot remember ever saying that, or know someone or being in the position where that might be appropriate.

With Poverty and Homelessness in my past, and BLIND LUCK having saved me from further dumpster diving, I feel like a minor authority in this matter.

[WilliamPitt]

27. I got spare-changed on Haight Street several years ago

by a young skater punk whose boots cost more than the suit I was wearing.

He looked at my suit and said, "Spare a dollar, white collar?"

I replied, "Get a job, fuckin slob."

He wasn't amused.

[Juffo Wup]

28. Frequently

It's one thing to be a single mother with three kids who just got dumped by the philandering husband, or the guy too disabled to work, and so on. Everyone else, at least try looking for a job. If you don't, fuck you, quit bitching, and quit siphoning unemployment from people who actually need it.

[NewWaveChick1981]

30. Yes. My brother.

:eyes: There is a huge difference between not either making ends meet even though you're working as hard as you can or being physically or emotionally unable to work and just being a lazy ass. My brother is a lazy ass. :eyes: I'm as liberal as it gets in helping people, but they have to help themselves too. If I thought my brother should get a handout because he won't get off his butt, I'd be crazy. However, if I thought someone who is working for minimum wage and can't make ends meet should get assistance, I'd be right. :)

[tinfoil tiaras]

32. Yeah...though I know what my mom would say

"So very unChristian like of you!"

:eyes:

I'm horrible, i know.

[Taverner]

33. My guess is the entire city of SF would say that

All fucking commies, every last one of em ;)

And I haven't known someone who lives in the city who doesn't get foamy mouthed about the homeless.

[Nikia]

34. Sometimes, people have stuff that they need to get over

That prevents them from seeking or securing employment that would allow them to make sufficient money or any at all. Sometimes, I've wanted to say "Sorry you were fired for a frivolous reason, sorry your last two bosses treated you like crap, sorry you were downsized despite your loyal service, sorry you were regected by last however many interviews you had gone to but you need to get over it." I think though that there is a depression associated with being unemployed or underemployed and some people need help that they aren't getting. There are things that I need to get over too that are detrimental to me too so I don't give people a hard time.