Nerdy rant: graphics cards

[billyskank]

Just reading on Tom's Hardware (the "Graphics State of the Union") how the next generation of graphics cards are going to be requiring 1KW power supplies.

The way things have always gone in the past, in a few years' time, we will need these graphics cards to play modern games. It'll be no good trying to make do with your Radeon X850 or your 6800GT in 2009. No games will run on them. And we won't want to be still playing Doom 3 and Quake 4, I wouldn't have thought.

But kilowatt power supplies! Doesn't that just make you want to scream, "no! This is ridiculous!" That's like a one-bar electric fire, for crying out loud! Is that all they know how to do? Just add more silicon and crank up the clock speeds? Bolt ever more graphics cards together? In 2009 will we be putting eight graphics cards in our PCs?? Sorry pal, no room for any anything else, the case is full up with fucking graphics cards!

How are we going to cool that lot down?

Actually, it's just the same as the situation with CPUs. They found that they simply couldn't crank the clock speeds any higher without the power and cooling requirements becoming ridiculous. But the graphics card makers' solutions so far are asinine. Bolt four graphics cards together? Puhlease.

:eyes:

:rant:

/nerd

[deucemagnet]

1. I feel your pain re: graphics cards.

I've been wanting to upgrade from my 32mb card for a while, but it's kind of hard to find one that will fit into a compact chassis. Some of those cards are real monsters.

You seem to know a lot more about this kind of stuff than I do, but I recently got this email about the new Intel conroe processors. The online store I buy my hardware from seems excited about them, at least.

Dear John:
The reality is this: Your PC is obsolete.
No, seriously. You really need to read this. Please...

I've just seen the future of processing power, and trust me, what exists today is going to be completely outdated very soon. The history of the computer industry will mark today as a new era in performance. The old CPU standard giving way to the newer, smarter and faster design.

It's Intel's fault. They got us addicted to speed and performance way back when. But now, they've come up with a PC chip with so much power. Well, it's gonna' put your old PC to shame.

Really. It's that good.

I'm talking about the all-new Intel Core 2 Duo processors, code-named "Conroe." (Keep reading, I'll tell you why they named it 'Conroe' in a moment...)
What's the big deal? It's a new architecture. For the first time, Intel has specifically created one unified Core architecture for all categories. All are based on Intel's Core technologies, and all three are 64-bit-capable dual-core processors with shared enhancements. (Click for more details.)

The results of this advance are astounding. Conroe will provide more computing power and use less energy. This will help laptops extend their battery life. It will also enable system builders to come out with thinner desktops and workstations, since lower energy means less heat, which results in fewer fans hogging case space.

What's more, lower power also means that the fans used will be slower, so your system will be quieter. With more PCs landing in the living room or in quiet dens, "quiet" is more important than ever.

What about in the real world? What's in it for you? Well, a lot, no matter what you do.

Here's my take: Multitasking moves to the next level. With Core 2 Duo's virtualization technology, you can turn one physical PC into several virtual systems, all running different applications and OSs! You could run an FTP server on one, a Web server on another, have a database running on a third, and still be playing a game or surfing on a fourth. This is a boon for developers who want to keep "clean" virtual machines running.

WIN An Intel Core 2 Duo
Systemax Super Gaming PC
Click here for a chance to WIN this amazing new PC!



But don't take my word for it. Here's what PC Magazine Online has to say:
"Conroe is the new desktop performance champ, and the one others will be chasing around the track for quite a while. Jaw-dropping speed."

PC World says: "Exclusive PC World tests show that PCs equipped with Intel's new Core 2 Duo processors, code-named Conroe, set new high marks for desktop performance--they're the fastest we've seen by far...Both of the Intel setups bested the AMD-based system on every test in our WorldBench 5 suite as well as on every one of our gaming tests...Intel has produced a winner with its Core Duo 2 design; and for the first time in years, the company holds a clear performance advantage over its longtime rival, AMD."

Makes your mouth water, doesn't it? I think you really want to see this chip in action, don't you?...

I know I'm going a little overboard here, but this is one of the biggest events in years! And, this is my passion. I love bringing hot new technologies to my customers. And nothing I've seen in years has been newer---or hotter!

Technology...from a trusted friend. TigerDirect.

So why do you care about this new processor? Well, I've put together a system featuring the new Intel Core 2 Duo processor chip, I decked it out with some great components and it's amazingly loaded. I spent about five grand on it!

And you might win it!

That's right. I'm giving it away to one lucky customer and heck, it might as well be you!

So here's the deal. Click here and enter right now for this amazing prize in our "Intel Duo Core Sweepstakes!" Your chance to win is just a click away and you don't have to buy anything to enter!

One lucky winner will boot up one of the most powerful systems ever built.

Best of all, I've got these new Intel processors in stock and ready to ship. Today. So click or call to get this amazing processor.

And remember this day. The day computing changed forever.

Regards,

Carl Fiorentino
President, TigerDirect.com

[billyskank]

2. I just wish they'd slow down the escalator a bit

It seems as if each new game out needs a new graphics card! :cry:

I just wish they would chill out a bit. Sell the existing graphics cards for longer before bringing the new models out. Let the game publishers stretch their legs a little more with each generation of hardware.

Sigh. Things were so much simpler when I was coming of age. Hardware generations seemed to last for ages. :(

[deucemagnet]

5. It's Moore's Law biting us in the ass.

:(

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

3. I was sooo excited when I got my Radeon 9800 256 MB.

I got it about two years ago, but it's rapidly becoming useless.
And I've been flippng between getting a new AGP card or scrapping it all and getting
a new motherboard with a PCI Express slot. I know I'm going to have to eventually get
a PCI Express board, but dammit, I really wish they'd ramp this down just a bit.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

4. I'm in the midst of dealing with this right now

Just got a new graphics card and it started crashing the system (only when the drivers were installed) after a week or two. It took me a long time to figure out the problem, but I finally realized it was the power supply.

So, now I have to drop a bigger PSU into my box or waste the $500 I spent on the new mighty graphics card.

Grrrrr...

[billyskank]

6. Make sure you get a kilowatt one...apparently

otherwise in a few years' time, you'll only have to get another one. Again. x(

[RedCappedBandit]

7. The solution is to stop playing video games

:)

[billyskank]

8. Well, that works on one level

That's the same as an asshole who lives next door to work smugly advising his friends that the solution to rising oil prices is to give up driving.

[ZombieNixon]

9. It's because of money.

The graphics card makers don't want to spend time on good development when they can weld four Radeon 9600's together and call it the Radeon XFinity Graphics Monster 30000 X.5 (or whatever :eyes:).

Gaming, on the other hand, is developing somewhat in the opposite direction (not in terms of graphics; those will keep getting better, but in terms of development ethic). Major developers (EA, etc) are beginning to lose their hold on the market. More and more games are coming out from independent developers who are using the putative monsters of the field in a publishing capacity and little more. Smaller companies are less market driven (since they only have about a dozen employees to pay and can still make a decent profit not pumping out a new game every week), and therefore spend more time on innovative development techniques involving memory allocation and graphics processing.

This is also why I think the Nintendo Wii (what a name x() will win out over the XBox 360. Microsoft's solution for faster graphics was brute force; give it a faster computer. However, they have a system where the CPU has to request graphics memory from the GPU, do the calculations, then shove all of it back into the GPU to do the rendering. Nintendo built it so that the GPU automatically allocates all the memory it needs and does the calculations and renderings all on it own. That's far better development and will win out in the end.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. I actually think the Wii is going to have a niche of its own.

I really don't see the Wii as being in direct competition with Sony and Microsoft for the next generation. The Wii is a more simplified gaming device, and one that's rather gimmicky.

The Wii will carve out its own market share that will consist of A) lesser experienced gamers (either adults who haven't played games before or children) and B) enthusiasts whom don't want to miss out on the latest Zelda or Mario games. This is actually a smarter move on their part, as the failure of the Gamecube was that it sought out that niche, but was doing so as a "next-gen console" rather than something all its own. It failed to lure in newbies with a creative and simple control design.

However, that control design will keep it out of the larger battle. In the "next-gen console" market, the winner is usually determined by whomever can put out the best first-party or console exclusive games. That's what kept Nintendo alive at all in the latest iteration, but it failed horribly when it came to the larger and sustaining portion of the market - common titles/ports. People buy a console for the first-party stuff, but they really play more of the common titles, games like Madden or the Lord of the Rings games that come out for all of the systems and PCs, more than they do the exclusive ones. The fact of the matter is, playing Madden on the Wii is not going to be anything like playing Madden on the PS3 or XBox 360. Therefore, a nearly entirely different game is going to have to be developed and playtested.

So, here's how it's going to work - 3rd party developers are first going to look at the market available to them if they were to go out on a limb and design their game for the Wii. If Wii doesn't sell enough units to the right demographics almost immediately upon release, the third parties are going to stop developing for it altogether. This action has been seen a few times already, with regard to Sega Saturn/Dreamcast or the Atari Jaguar. What makes the Wii riskier is the second part of it, which is the fact that the port has to be signficantly altered, costing far more money.

Furthermore, ports of some games, due to their design, may simply not be possible on the Wii. This will further deter consumers from investing in a Wii and will further make 3rd party developers skittish in their support for the system.

In summation, its controller will relegate Wii to a niche system, which honestly, seems to be what Nintendo wants.

[ZombieNixon]

12. Not necessarily re: the controller,

since the sword/lightsaber controller thing can basically be turned over and attached to make it into a traditional controller. It all depends on whether Nintendo sells the attachments as part of the basic Wii package, in which case there'll be no problem, or separately, in which case, yeah, you're right, the controller will limit the Wii's (I still want to type it "wee"; I can't get over the fricken name x() market.

(And IIRC, I seem to recall seeing a Nintendo controller like those arcade guns, too. :shrug:)

However, as a programmer, I can say that the Nintendo CPU/GPU setup is far easier to program for than the XBox's, which in some ways is like a dual core setup, something that people are still struggling to make a single application utilize effectively. So, I'm not sure if porting a (say) PC game to the XBox will cost any more than porting it to the Wii.

Now, I've seen a Microsoft sales rep speak about the capabilities of the XBox, and I can safely say he was full of shit. I've also seen the devkits of the XBox 360 and they are (get this) PowerMac G5s. Seriously. It was the weirdest thing I'd ever seen. :crazy:

[Tyrone Slothrop]

13. I'm still trying to decide what I think about the whole Wii thing

Particularly, the WiiMote.

When I first heard about it, I thought it sounded like a really cool, wave of the future type of thing.

Then I heard from some people who had the chance to play around with it that it wasn't *that* accurate for aiming, pointing, etc.

Then I saw some demonstration videos featuring a people basically just being very active while playing with their Wii. (Sorry, couldn't help myself there...)

Now, I dunno. I'm still very curious to try it, but I mainly play games as a means of relaxing. When I want a work-out, I go to the gym or go for a run (which I do regularly for those reading this who automatically assume gamers are glued to their couches); when I get home after a long day at work or whatever, I want to unwind by sitting in a comfy chair and playing a game. Not leaping around and slashing at the air with my Wii... (Man, it's just really hard to write about this product without throwing all sorts of strange innuendo around!)

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

14. I don't doubt the technical stuff at all.

However, if one has to seriously change the dynamics of a game because of a control scheme, that will nullify or exceed any costs related to the complexity of the actual CPU/GPU barriers. A whole extra round of playtesting will be required that usually isn't, and a lot of time will be spent on having to reimagine the controls.

I will also say that people held the same complaints about the PS2 when its dev-kits were first released, about how much more complex it was going to be to utilize their faux-dual core setup, and look at how much that really inhibited them.

The bottom line is that if the market is there, the developers will shut-up and do it. The XBox 360, due to the weirdness of the Wii's controls and the sheer pricing of the PS3, in addition to its headstart in the market, is actually looking a lot better than most people thought it would right about now.

[ZombieNixon]

18. That's assuming that 3rd party developers want to develop for the WiiMote

At this point, I figure that the in-house Nintendo games will utilize the WiiMote and outside developers can go ahead and develop for the traditional controller, thus putting pressure on Nintendo to sell the traditional controllers at part of the basic package as well.

The XBox 360's putative success, would be, sadly, typical Microsoft; pretty mediocre and there could easily be better, but it takes charge of the market through a combination of circumstance and good marketing. One of my friends is making a killing soldering mod chips on people's XBox 360s to make them better. Point is, the XBox 360 can barely be considered a "next-gen" console; it's basically just the old XBox with a bigger computer.

Many of my peers would be in a better position fo wax eloquent about Wii vs. PS3 vs. XBox, having been to Japan this summer and seen the thing in person (unlike me), so I'll really have to wait until the fall to get he final analysis.

Hell, this is why I develop for the computer...x(

[billyskank]

19. Are you saying the Wii will win because of technical superiority?

There are so many examples of technologies which failed despite being technically the best. There are many other factors that will determine winners and losers.

I'm not offering an opinion on whether the Wii will do well or not here, though.

[ZombieNixon]

21. Well, I suppose rather I would *hope*

Though I guess part of that is also antagonism toward Microsoft. :D

Word in the industry, though, is that the Wii will do well, partly because of all the publicity from its FREAKIN RIDICULOUS NAME!!!! (x()

[mainegreen]

10. Here's how to cool the computer of the future:

Plus you'll need to put it in the next room (for noise control).

[billyskank]

16. For real

:crazy:

[Frank Cannon]

15. I still play games from 1998-2002

I know I must be in the weird minority, but I still have never run out of fun things to do with:

Civilization II
Half-Life
Deus Ex (THE greatest game ever, in my opinion. STILL fresh and fun.)
Tomb Raider III
Homeworld
Age of Empires (with Rise of Rome expansion)
Age of Empires II: Age of Kings
Flight Simulator 2002 (though that's not really a game)

I play a little on one of these games every day and never get bored. I don't think I could ever explore all the options/implications that all the above have to offer.

I've seen the fancy games today that require all the massive computational horsepower and I just don't see how they are that much superior to this list. Just because the characters in a game have more detailed polygons or they move faster doesn't make the game itself better. Not by a long shot.

[billyskank]

17. Well, that's quite true

Truly great games always remain fun to play.

[wildhorses]

20. that's hot

:loveya:

[billyskank]

22. What, my unashamed nerdiness?

:loveya:

[wildhorses]

23. yep

:blush: