Why the (Bleepfuck) is Ty Cobb in the MLB hall of fame?

[Blue-Jay]

He was a racist, a womanizer, and an all around son-of-a-bitch. Only four people from the baseball community attended his funeral.

Then again, he was an incredible baseball player. An asshole, but an incredible baseball player.

[IsIt1984Yet]

1. Heh, you said "bleepfuck"

[Zomby Woof]

2. They may have just wanted...

To make sure he was dead.

Did you see the movie with Tommy Lee Jones? Summed up his character (or lack of it) and his talent quite well, I thought.

[Blue-Jay]

3. That was a good movie!

Who knows how accurate it was, but I enjoyed it. My only problem was that Tommy Lee Jones played Cobb as somewhat "endearing", which I doubt was the essence of Cobb.

I could be wrong, however. I've known many assholes who had one or two endearing qualities.

[Oeditpus Rex]

5. It's very accurate

The film is based on the book "Cobb" by Al Stump. Notice the basic plot of the film revolves around Stump being contracted as Cobb's biographer, but the book Cobb wanted written (and to which he was entitled by the contract) was largely a fairy tale, as opposed to the biography Stump, one of the best sportswriters of his day, wanted to write. So he wrote both, as the movie depicts — scrawling notes for the "real" bio on napkins, etc. — whenever time and Cobb's absence permit.

I'd suggest reading both books: "My Life in Baseball: The True Record," by Ty Cobb with Al Stump, and the "unauthorized" biography. They're remarkably different, and the latter is a marvelous piece of journalism.

[Blue-Jay]

8. I trust you because you know a lot about baseball.

Except for your belief that the Big Blue Wrecking Crew was better than the Big Red Machine.

[Oeditpus Rex]

9. Wha...?

When'd I say that? :shrug:

[Blue-Jay]

11. I guess you didn't actually say that. However....

You did (don't make me look it up - I'm too lazy) say that Garvey-Cey-Lopes-etc was the best infield ever.

Honestly, I'm just yanking your chain. I miss baseball like it was, same as you.

I miss Rollie Fingers. I miss Stargell. I miss Munson. I miss Seaver. I miss Bench. I miss Ryan. I miss JR Richard. I miss Cey. I miss all those guys....Back when baseball didn't suck.

I miss baseball, I guess. You probably understand that.

[Oeditpus Rex]

14. Yup — I do

To the Game. :toast:

And, yeah, I remember saying that about Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey. But if I said flat-out that they were the best, I was out of line. They were the best I ever saw, but that's not the same thing.

[Blue-Jay]

15. To The Game!

:toast:

We remember the last decade when baseball actually meant something. I owe you you a beer.

[jobycom]

4. Beat a guy to death and was caught gambling on the game

He was once threatened with a ban from baseball for fixing games to settle gambling debts. He and another player, on advice from their lawyers, made a list of other players they knew had fixed games, and gave the three page list to Landis, and told him that if they were banned, they'd have no choice but to give the list to the media.

Both are in the Hall of Fame.

[Oeditpus Rex]

13. The death was never verified, near as I can remember

Cobb admitted beating a guy and leaving him for dead in an alley — he had a Belgian pistol with a raised sight and beat him with that. But Stump, in the unauthorized bio, quoted Cobb as saying he killed the guy. Stump could turn up no record of it, however.

As for the threatened ban, then-AL President Bancroft Johnson was no fan of Cobb, and when Dutch Leonard went to him claiming he witnessed Cobb, Tris Speaker and Smoky Joe Wood fix a game between Detroit and Cleveland in 1919, he jumped on it. Leonard may have had it in for Cobb, who traded him to Vernon in the PCL in 1925 when he was player-manager, after Speaker refused waivers on him.

If you've got more info on either or both of these, I'd be interested in reading it.

[jobycom]

16. Well,

The gambling story was from my memory of an ESPN article which stated it as fact. Can't find it, but I found another story which just states that Cobb claimed "that the attorneys representing him and Speaker had brokered their reinstatement by threatening to expose further scandal in baseball if the two were not cleared." Not enough detail to be sure how reliable that is. http://espn.go.com/classic/s/2001/0730/1233060.html

On the killing, here's an interesting story tracking the legend. Looks less likely than I had always heard.
http://baseballguru.com/bburgess/analysisbburgess01.html

Sounds like, in both cases, Ty Cobb had a lot of Mel Gibson in him when he was drunk. Both stories, it sounds like, came from him. Maybe that makes both suspect.

[GalleryGod]

6. Maybe the 4,198 hits and lifetime .366 average?

Just a hunch.:shrug:

[Blue-Jay]

7. AH! You may have stumbled upon something!

:D

[Vidar]

10. Held the stolen base record for forty years & batted 400 3 times as well

[LuckyTheDog]

12. Comerica Park in Detroit

Comerica Park in Detroit has a commemorative plaque related to Ty Cobb that was moved from the old Tiger Stadium. Next to it is a commemorative plaque that explains the Ty Cobb commemorative plaque .

Odd, eh?

[5thGenDemocrat]

18. And, in a wonderfully ironic touch

Cobb's statue at Comerica is placed between those of a black guy (Willie Horton) and a Jewish guy (Hank Greenberg). I doubt Ty's stopped spinning quite yet.
John
Could you tell me where the Tigs placed the Cobb plaque? I've been down there three times already this year (and am going again a week from tomorrow vs the Twins) and I haven't seen it. Truth is, I thought someone stole the plaque off the wall of Tiger Stadium -- but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong about something.

[Katina]

17. because it's about how they played the game

not what kind of human being they were/are.

IMO, I think the rules of entry should be changed to include both on field performance AND off field behavior. It bothers me a lot that Cobb is in there, but the league is so hypocritical that they keep Rose and Jackson out and they are both nicer people in real life than Cobb could ever hope to be. If we are going to hold these jocks up as role models for our kids, then we have to hold them to the highest standards of behavior or else we are just glorifying a bunch of troglodytes...and what does that teach our children?