Could you ever forgive someone who made a racial slur/bad comment?

[tjdee]

I'm thinking about Mel Gibson, but who cares about him, really.

A long time ago a friend of mine referred to Mick Jagger's lips as "nigger lips" and I was like...um... have you noticed I'm black? And your friend? ??? She said something like, "but his lips are way bigger than yours" and I let it go.(I was like 13 when it happened.) That person turned into a Republican, what a shock, but we're still friendly and she's a good person (MOSTLY LOL). She was just raised like that, and she was 14 or whatever.

But in 2006, if a reasonably mature and educated person that you like and respect lets loose with "nigger lips" or "Jews start all the wars" "I should hire an Asian to come and clean this house" (I heard that from someone last week :eyes: ) or whatever...

Are they automatically cut off forever? What could they say/do to get back in your good graces?

[querelle]

1. Yeah.....

I never cared for Mel Gibson because of some nasty things he said about gays in Hollywood. Hello! Gays in Hollywood? Anyway, I've never held the guy in high esteem. He registers even lower now. His apology was totally bogus I believe. He's just trying to salvage what may be left of his sorry ass career. Adios Mel!

Q

[Deja Q]

3. Agreed.

Especially when, in 2004, he apologized profusely about "The Passion of the human punching bag" or whatever that atrocity is called.

Mel's a nutter.

Or something happened between 2004 and now, but why should I care? He proved himself in 2004.

[nini]

2. yes... if they learn from it and get educated about it

if they're just hateful assholes they wouldn't be in my life in the first place.

[WindRavenX]

8. That's a good point

A lot of the older people in my family accept gays, but still make, um, not so kosher remarks. I take the time to tell them why it's not cool to call someone a "flamming fag" (I know, I know) and they stop.

[Cruzan]

4. Mel Gibson aside, if you're talking about an individual acquaintance or

friend, then no you don't cut them off forever. Not just for one remark. Certainly you should try to understand/feel-the-person-out to the degree you either confirm or set aside whatever suspicions you now have. Because it's not just an isolated comment but a consistent pattern of behavior that really shows them for who they are.

[caty]

5. It's not so much that I "cut them off",

but I never think of them in the same way again, and I find that I am no longer interested in their work. I used to really like Mel Gibson. But, after he made "The Passion of the Christ", and I saw the prejudice in him, I just totally lost interest in him. The same with Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. I liked them in movies, but when I found out they started an affair while Pitt was still married to Jennifer Anisten, I just lost interest in Pitt and Jolie. Christian Slater arrested for spouse abuse--lost interest.

It's not that I look at them and think: Mel--bigot. Brad and Angelina--adulterers. Christian--wife beater. I just loose interest in watching anything they appear in. I guess it's hard to enjoy their work if I am disappointed in them as human beings. I know actors are only human, but we think of them in a certain way--and then we are shocked when we find out it's all just smoke and mirrors.

[Misunderestimator]

10. I have a hard time understanding anyone cheating on a spouse...

but I wouldn't discount all the good that Brad has done since he's been with Angelina, nor the good she's done all along, simply because they fell in love while Brad was still married. I really don't understand that kind of judgement, especially when no one really knows the truth but them.

As for racist comments, that's much harder to forgive. I don't just lose interest, I severely dislike racists and homophobes. They hurt everyone by their hatred. "Adulterers" only hurt themselves and those who they are directly involved with. I know... I've been involved with people who cheat. It's one of the reasons I've never done it myself.

[caty]

12. That's just it.

I don't really judge them. I just loose interest in them. I can't think of them in the same way anymore. It's more like I'm disappointed in their values and standards.

[Misunderestimator]

14. I guess I understand.

I feel the same way about celebrities I admire who are arrested for DUIs or who marry their stepdaughters. Disappointed.

[Bridget Burke]

51. Paul Newman & Joanne Woodward were married to others when they met.

So I guess you've ignored both of them for most of their careers.

[MiniMandaRuth]

6. I let 'That's Gay' for something stupid slide... sometimes.

But not always.I'm only fourteen and frankly, still confused about my own sexuality, so I let it slide.

But every once in a while, I rip someones head off for it.

[querelle]

9. "That's Gay"

Is a totally unacceptable insult. Is "that's so black" or "that's so raghead" any better? I don't think so. I never let insults like that pass. Everyone has to learn that denigration based on race or sexual preference is wrong. Period. No exceptions ever.

Q

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

11. Is any insult acceptable?

"Everyone has to learn that denigration based on race or sexual preference is wrong. Period. No exceptions ever."
That implies other insults are okay. Either all insults are 'alright' (as in, no insult is more wrong than others), or all insults are inherantly not right.

Although personally, I rarely insult others, and others insults rarely bother me. Occasionally I'll give them a look or something, but in all honesty, I can't think of any insult they could come up with that would hurt my feelings.

[MiniMandaRuth]

13. I'm the same way.

If someone insults me, I'll let it go. If someone insults a friend... they'd better be careful.

[ForrestGump]

16. That's so honky

Oops... :o

I never understood the "that's so gay" thing, especially when the 'that' in question is hardly something that can be related to sexual orientation. And especially when it's spelled "ghey" or some similar way (i.e., stupid and self-consciously trying to be ironic, or something) that seems to be so popular now with all the hep cats and chicks.

"That's so Republican" -- now there is an insult!

[Courtesy Flush]

48. Do you ever say "that's lame" in front of handicapped people?

[Fox Mulder]

50. People at my work say that all the time...

and it pisses me off.

Of course, I can't say anything because I'm the new guy. Ugh. Once I get seniority, I'm going to start opening up my mouth when someone says that.

[Magrittes Pipe]

7. Well, with the Gibson thing, it's a pattern of behavior.

If it was once... meh. We all say stupid things sometimes.

[hfojvt]

15. you're black?

I hadn't noticed.

How is hiring an Asian racist? Is it a racial slur to believe that they are willing to work hard for very little money?

I was kinda shocked in the last couple of years to have worked with black people who constantly used the word 'nigga' to talk about themselves. But otherwise I have a hard time respecting anyone who uses the n-word. Doesn't mean I won't talk to them or socialize with them.

[tjdee]

26. Well, she went on to say how "good Asians were at cleaning".

That, to me, is kind of like complimenting black people on how well they dance or play sports. I should have been clearer, LOL.

Yeah, I'm very uncomfortable with the "nigga" stuff.

[hfojvt]

32. I would not equate positive stereotypes with bigotry

Certainly not as harmful as a negative stereotype. Like the artistic sensibilities of the Irish. I can live with that.

[idgiehkt]

17. I get just plain ignorance a lot more than slurs.

Sometimes it's even well meaning. Alot of it that I go through is too complicated to go into...and has to do with well-meaning heterosexuals stepping on gay toes and then freaking out when you point it out to them. They can get vicious when you imply they are a less than stellar liberal. I've had this happen twice with two close friends in the last two months, and I'm pretty stunned sometimes to see that they want so badly to believe that they haven't displayed ignorance that they will turn on me and basically tell me I'm full of shit. The result? One friendship I completely cut off, and another I waded through and worked through with the person...even though she got infuriated when I said "you might not be able to understand this because you are not gay." I was kind of surprised at the emotion she showed in reaction to that, because it would not similarly affect me if someone told me 'you might not be able to understand this because you are not heterosexual.'

There is a website out there called "Black people love us" that kind of highlights the ignorant things people do on a racial basis that are not exactly blatant slurs, but that are offensive in a way that is a lot harder to articulate. http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/

I wouldn't want to be friends with anyone who used the -n- word who wasn't a rapper performing a rap song...any white person who uses that word knows what that is about and if they don't I can't imagine exhausting myself trying to educate them out of it. It's hard if you've been close with them for a while though, they might be harder to cut off.

[tjdee]

27. Oh I LOVE BlackPeopleLoveUs.com!!

I was crying with tears of laughter when I saw it for the first time.

[skygazer]

18. Depends on who/how/why

Celebrities who make moranic remarks a la Mel don't get cut too much slack from me - that's someone who should know better and that sort of stuff will offend me.

Ditto for people I know personally who are showing clear racist or bigoted tendencies. But there are times when people use slurs without really being aware they're doing it - "I tried to Jew him down on the price...", that sort of thing. People like that, I will point out what an offensive statement that is - if they can realize that, cool. If they don't care, I'm probably not going to feel the same way about them. I live in a very diverse area of the country - just in my place of work, I work with blacks, whites, Mexicans, Vietnamese, Italians, Jews, gays and lesbians just to name a few. I look at people as people, not groups.

[YankeyMCC]

19. I've had to deal with many people in my family

and among my friends who've used racial and other derogatory slurs.

In some cases it became clear that their bigotry was central to their own identity and I had to just remove them from my life.

In most others it was as consequence of unthinking parroting or just a lack of self examination. And sometimes you just have to accept people for who they are. You still say something in protest but it can be a dangerous thing to have a simple unbending litmus test for removing people from your life.

For example I've had to tell my own Mother she is NOT to say certain things around my son.

I have a good close friend who sometimes still forgets and tells racists jokes around me, he's a sort of Archie Bunker type or maybe better than Archie in that I know (have witnessed) he treats everyone the same (not that he treats everyone all that well :) ) but he still has prejudices and will tell stupid jokes. I've told him repeatedly not to tell them around me and he's gotten better but he still slips.

He and I have also been through a lot together, most recently he was someone I could absolutely count on when my Dad died. We essentially grew up together and like brothers we've argued and done hurtful things to each other but we've also done a lot of good for each other. I'm not going to cut him out of my life despite this (as I see it ) major flaw. I continue to try and deal with it.

[Xipe Totec]

20. My father in law

may he rest in peace.

He'd get on these rants about Mexicans, totally forgetting that I'm one of 'them'.

So, I'd just listen and nod and ignore it.

He loved me very much and I knew it.

That's what was important to me.

[tjdee]

30. Yeah, this is what I'm talking about.

Did you ever say "um.... I am Mexican, just so you know..."? Did you ever talk to him about it?

Because he'd say those kind of things in front of you--I guess it was like a silent "you're different", which is probably why he felt comfortable saying that stuff.... just curious what you'd say, or if you'd just ignore it.

Your post is what I'm getting at.

[Xipe Totec]

31. He didn't see me as a Mexican

He saw me as a person.

One of my sister in-in-laws was married to a Philippino and my father-in-law loved him also, and adored the grandchild from that marriage.

Stereotypes are place holders for things that a person does not know very much about; They are prejudices in the literal sense of the word, pre-judgments, or judgments before the facts.

What is important, to me, is how a person reacts once he has facts to make a judgment. If the person still acts based on the prejudices, then there's a real problem.

I saw that my father in law never treated people he knew personally in the way he spoke of abstract collective classes. If my father in law had acted based on his stated prejudices, my reaction would have been very different, and much harsher.

I never spoke to him about it, because I did not want to embarrass him by shattering the cognitive dissonance. You see, I loved him too. Very much.

Love blinds us all.

[SOteric]

21. It very much depends on the person, the context and

the circumstance.

I was once shocked to hear a couple of coworkers laughing over some racist comments. My esteem for them was on the express elevator to the basement when I learnt they were only quoting an episode of South Park I'd no experience with.

So, that brings up the question of shows like South Park, noted for bigotry, racisms, sexism and a whole Field Day of various 'isms not fit for polite society. It brings up such personalities as Howard Stern and his ilk.

A certain vein of humour relies heavily on the use of such terms without necessarily subscribing to the vile philosophies which might prompt them in sincerity.

If I have some genuine, well-thought reason to believe a person to be a poopyhead, then I lose interest in them after they've been revealed as a poopyhead. Meanwhile, I reserve judgement.

[LaurenG]

22. I could

I have a harder time when they aren't sorry but I could and I have.

They could say they were sorry or didn't realize what they were saying or that they got caught up in the moment(s), as long as it didn't continue, I could let it go.

[judaspriestess]

23. well,

No one is perfect, when you're drunk, pissed off, stupid things come out of peoples mouths, if they are decent people none the less I think they should be forgiven. If its just pure hate, like on the thread I posted about the hateful racial slurs against Eva Longoria for example then NO they should not be forgiven cause they are stupid people.

[Taverner]

24. "um... have you noticed I'm black?"

Man your jaw must have hit the floor with a thud...

[tjdee]

28. It was really strange, because she said it like she was saying

"It's a nice day outside."

I was completely bewildered--like, LOL, was I supposed to be flattered that she did not notice that I was brown?

[idgiehkt]

29. it would bother me if someone said that in front of me.

I'm not black, but the times I've heard people say it, it just crosses them off the list for me. I remember once hearing my boss's executive secretary say it, in the same tone that you described, and I was stunned. I thought she was sophisticated and educated and very intelligent, and in a second flat she became an ignorant redneck for me. I couldn't believe it, I just stood there and stared at her with my mouth hanging open.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jpgray]

33. Hmm. I'll assume you used to haul 19th century denominations of firewood

[Misunderestimator]

37. What... the... fuck?

You MISS the word "faggot"... I really, really, don't get it.

[idgiehkt]

38. I didn't either

but I was gonna let someone else say it first. Maybe it's a Cracker Barrel thing.

[Misunderestimator]

39. Yeah, I think you've been flamed enough today.

:shrug:

[idgiehkt]

41. It's okay, I'm durable

besides, as I just posted in another thread, I just had a run-in with a train, and won, so I'm loving life right about now.

[swag]

34. Is that you, Dad? I'll always forgive you. Glad you don't vote any more.

[jpgray]

36. What, bigotry in the high plains?

:rofl:

All my preschool buddies in Billings were oil executives guttersnipes, and I heard some nasty things over at playdates let me tell you.

(and naturally there are awesome, open-minded people there as well.)

[swag]

42. I like that it's called "Rimrock Mall."

[BlueIris]

35. Yup. Anyone who would think of the slur and SAY it, has biiiig issues.

Excepting the too young to know better, I guess. Maybe. Depends on how young. And getting rid of those issues is--hard work, I would think. Not the kind of thing someone would want to go halfway on and not the kind of thing I could personally stand to "tolerate" while hanging around the person and hoping they'd WTFU.

[philosophie_en_rose]

40. Probably, but it depends.

If a person is just ignorant and without the intent to be ignorant (like my elderly aunt), then I don't really hold a grudge. I dislike what she says about her "brown" nieces (such as myself), and their "Oriental" selves. But she truly does not know any better and would not understand sensitivity training.

Basically, I love her more than I'm offended.


If, however, racist comments are intentional or made with reckless disregard or disrespect for others, I would likely cut it off. No reason to be around an unrepetent racist.

[ContraBass Black]

43. If I didn't I would have very few, if any friends.

[Redstone]

44. Of COURSE I could. And have done so more times than I can remember.

A real good friend of mine once used the expression "screaming like a gut-shot Apache" before he knew I am half Indian.

He's from Texas, so I had to give him some slack. but I issued him a correction nonetheless, and the apology I got was mare than sufficient to make sure he stayed my friend.

Forgiveness always works, at least as an opening tactic.

Redstone

[Katina]

45. it depends on the why/where/how and the context

and it depends on who says it. I think we are all guilty of saying things that aren't exactly right, whether they be racist or bigoted or just plain stupid. The question is whether it's done out of ignorance, insensitivity or seriously.

[Major Hogwash]

46. Yup, do it all the time.

People make mistakes and if they say they are wrong, then I accept their apology. Keep in mind that Gibson had been drinking, and sometimes people say stupid shit when they are shit-faced.

I had a friend who invited his friend over to his house when we were all about 16 years old. We were going to go to the store together, but his friend had brought his 2 4 year-old twin brothers with him.

When they saw me, they both started giggling and chuckling to themselves, right off the bat. So, I leaned down a little and asked the first one if he thought I was funny looking and he said, "You got nigger lips and nigger hair."

I looked over at their big brother who was turning completely red and started stammering and stuttering something about how they were so young, and they didn't mean it so I said, "sure, but what kind of talk has been going on in your home?" and left.

Racism is taught in the home.

I saw his friend the next week and he started apologizing and I told him they don't teach those kind of words on Sesame Street.
I forgave that kid, but we never became friends.

[calico1]

47. It depends.

I think some people use words or terms without really thinking about what the meaning is. Some years ago, I was out with my best friend. We got into some conversation and she started talking about some "Chinks" she worked with. And I said to her "Whaaat?" She says "Chinks. You know, Chinese." I said to her "Why don't you just call them Chinese. You know some people refer to us as 'Spics' (We are both Puerto Rican) Is that okay with you? She said she had never really thought about it. She just heard other people say it and it never occurred to her it could be offensive and she just got used to using the term.

On the other hand there are people who use racist terms or words and know that and intend for it to be racist and offensive. I have met a few of those. Oh, and the people who bad mouth other Puerto Ricans but tell me "but you are different. I don't mean you. You are okay." Like that is supposed to be a compliment. :eyes:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

49. People fuck up.

It's human nature to do and say stupid things some times. And actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words, in my opinion. If I caught someone acting in a way that was racist, that'd be a much different ballgame to me.

Gibson's comment is a hell of a lot worse than any of the others you mention, of course.

[One_Life_To_Give]

52. Robert Byrd

If I didn't beleive people could change their views over time. I would really have to wonder about any political party that would have a fomer member of the Clan in a position of importance.

[LanternWaste]

53. I have to.

I would. I do. I'd be hypoctical not to as in my youth I made many, many racist and sexist comments. Not that I actually trying to mean-spirited, mind you, I simply young, didn't know better and didn't know the effects that words can have on people.

(Having said that however, I realize now I should have known better at the time.)

Thus, I feel that I'm compelled to forgive the isolated remark in someone else or carry my own guilt with me on a semi-permanent basis.

Yet, if it does indeed go beyond the isolated remark and is actually part and parcel of that person, I can't see how I'd be friends with him in the first place as I usually avoid anyone using intolerant language (regardless if it concerns race, religion or sexual orientation).

That's my $0.02.

[TrogL]

54. Generally these people are authoritarian personality type

and bad news. Best stay away. Forgive, yes.