Why do people feel compelled to bring one another down?

[grace0418]

I'm not talking about disagreeing. Discourse without disagreement would get pretty boring, and no one would learn anything.

But why do some people feel compelled to piss all over someone's idea because they think it's stupid or won't work–especially when they have no other solutions to offer?

[Ron Green]

1. It's just fear.

One of my two-bit theories is that there's only Love and Fear, and Love is hard. So Fear generally rules most human transactions, and it comes out as anger, snarkiness, sarcasm, one-upsmanship, what have you. It's the path of least resistance.

[grace0418]

8. That theory is certainly worth more than two-bits.

Thanks! :hi:

[Broken_Hero]

2. its

the "i'm right, you are wrong" mentality...but I'm sure there is more to it than that, but thats how i see it, and i could be compeletly effing wrong...or a bit right...:)

What I don't understand is...if you don't like something, say Rush limbaugh, why watch/listen to his show? If you don't like smokers, why hang around them, to complain to their faces about how their second hand smoke is the reason the polar ice caps are melting? if you don't like fat people, why hang out at mcdonalds and tell everyone their eating themselves to death? Things like that always make me go...hmmm...:)

on edit:grammer/spelling...I'm still trying to wake up.

[grace0418]

7. I'm certainly guilty of negative opinions about some things.

It's not that I even mind people expressing themselves. I guess it's the way they do it, the context in which they do it, and the harm or good that would come of it.

If I posted a thread saying "Who else here loves (XYZ Product)? I buy it all the time and I think it's fabulous." and someone were to respond "I used to love (XYZ Product) too but then I found out that they do animal testing and there is (some toxic substance) in it but the call it by another name to throw you off." I would completely appreciate that person's opinion and response. Why? Because, although they weren't agreeing with me they did offer constructive advice.

If, on the other hand, they wrote "What kind of loser buys (XYZ Product)? God that stuff is nasty. Why are you wasting my time asking such a dumb question?" I would feel very differently about the response.

[Broken_Hero]

10. true, good points...no text

[LanternWaste]

3. This is a convoluted explanation

I've got a friend who's pretty insightful about things like this and he hammered me on it once some years back when I was guilty of the same sort of transgression. His argument goes something like this...

People want to feel good about themselves. One indirect means we have at achieving this is a sense of validation about our own opinions-- as though opinions were part and parcel of our own self-identity.

When someone disagrees with our opinions, we may translate that as "I disagree with who YOU ARE" and see his/her contradistinctions as a threat to our sense of self-worth.

Now, add in the last ingredient-- sometimes the opinion of the other person is perfectly valid and cannot be countered with only an instant or two of thought, so rather than pro actively defending our position against the other, we simply tear down the other opinion in way imaginable, but for many (MANY) people, the only known way to do that is to simply belittle the person/person's opinion in an openly negative way.

See... what we're *trying* to do is build our own self esteem by basing it on how others perceive our opinions. And if that opinion is negative, we tear *them* down which we see as raising our opinion relative to the other.

I know, it's a bit too convoluted of an explanation but I'm at work, wired on coffee and itching to go home.

[grace0418]

6. No I get it. I'm often guilty of feeling like someone who disagrees with

my opinion is actually disagreeing with something about me as person. I'm pretty sensitive about people thinking my logic or intelligence is flawed because I hold intelligence in high regard.

[Radio_Lady]

16. You did a very good job of explaining it, LanternWaste.

All of this despite being at work!!! I worry about you guys who get on the DU while working. I know at least one person who was FIRED because of exchanging personal email and surfing the web.

I did it a little bit while I held down part-time, fill-in jobs in 2000, at the end of a long broadcasting and sales career. However, I don't think it's wise to sit at your desk and do personal things. Would you file your fingernails or put on nail polish? Read a romance novel? Talk on the telephone to your friends or your family?

Uh-oh. Don't want to highjack this thread. I'm wired from coffee this evening!

Just be careful, and have a wonderful 4th of July weekend!

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[LanternWaste]

20. You have a great weekend, too!

It's not a problem... I'm a "little" boss in my office and the "big" boss is pretty easy-going about what I do as long as my work is done by the end of the day. That, and I usually post during breaks and lunch-hours only saves me from any unpleasant consequences that might otherwise arise.

However, I do appreciate your concern- it's kinda refreshing these days. You have a great weekend, too!

[Gormy Cuss]

4. Sometimes it's just nastiness, but sometimes being direct is the only

way to get the person to understand that the idea wouldn't work. If a person is qualified by training and experience to say that an idea won't work (because it's been tried repeatedly and failed, or because it's based on a flawed assumption, etc.) the idea can be shot down even if the qualified person can not offer a solution.

Calling it a stupid idea or impugning the person's intelligence is uncalled for.

[grace0418]

5. Oh yeah, I agree. But most people qualified by training and experience

*can* usually offer an alternative to the non-working idea or at least some constructive advice.

But if the two options are to do absolutely nothing or to do something that has a very small chance of working, I'll choose the small chance every time. Especially if it isn't doing any harm to at least take some action. And I don't see why someone who chooses to do nothing would take the time to try to make me feel like a fool for trying.

[Gormy Cuss]

9. It's never appropriate to make someone feel foolish for trying.

Ever.

[hfojvt]

17. Ever?

I have a situation at work. We have a piece of equipment that should be replaced, but a new one costs about $1500. The old one is not working very well. So a new guy comes in and, despite being told not to, gets into the motor and tries to repair it. Trouble is, he does not know how to repair it. His first attempt resulted in the machine not working at all. This I found out on a night when I wanted to use the machine. So he worked at it some more and it now kinda works, but not as well as it did before he messed with it. It can be better to do nothing than to try when you do not know what you are doing and if an attempt can easily make things worse.

[Gormy Cuss]

18. Foolish is insulting.

There are ways to suggest it may not be best for someone to try without making them feel foolish. It's all in the way you present it.

[Dangerously Amused]

11. Something I don't get...

Person A promotes all of Agenda 1, which specifically benefits Person A and others like him/her, and parts of Agenda 2, which benefits most people.


Person B promotes all of Agenda 1 even though Agenda 1 does not benefit Person B, AND all of Agenda 2 (which benefits most people).


Then Person A goes out of the way to attack Person B for the parts of Agenda B that s/he (Person A) disagrees with, despite the fact that Person A has a strong and valuable ally (in terms of being a non-vested interest) in Person B's support of Agenda 1.



I see that all the time and just have to wonder wtf A's problem is.

[LaraMN]

12. I had a friend once who was just terminally unhappy.

She was just hell-bent on being miserable, and if I ever had anything good happen in my life and attempted to share it, she would proceed to rip it down. She had a multitude of problems and I tried to be supportive of her and help her think of ways to address and improve them, but ultimately, she seemed intent to wallow in her own misery. Eventually, I had to cut her out of my life, as she did nothing but bring me down, and I couldn't help her. I still feel guilty and sad about it; I really hope she eventually learned to deal with her issues. Skepticism can be good, but only when balanced with a healthy offsetting of optimism.

[raccoon]

21. Had a co-worker like that once.

"and if I ever had anything good happen in my life and attempted to share it, she would proceed to rip it down."

He'd do that to everybody.

And he had to BE FUCKING RIGHT all the time.

Think I'll start another thread on that...

[grace0418]

24. I *have* a co-worker like that currently. We call her Debbie Downer.

Everything that happens is some massive conspiracy of fate to bring her down. She goes into everthing expecting to be let down and then, when the tiniest little thing goes wrong (and I mean tiny), she freaks out and catalogs it in her mind as further proof that nothing ever goes right for her.

I remember one time she told me about some outing she had with her niece. As "proof" that nothing ever goes right for her, she told me all about the restaurant having flat soda or giving her diet instead of regular or some such nonsense. I'm not kidding. She spent so much time freaking out about the soda I don't even remember anything else they did or what the original intention of the outing was. How sad is that?

She simply cannot be happy, either. She hates every kind of food except pizza, McDonalds and generic Mexican food but then she mopes when we don't invite her to lunch. She's hypersensitive about EVERYTHING around her. One person chews their ice too loud, another person's coffee "smells" too much, another person talks too loud. And she complains incessantly about it, even though she plays her music on her headphones loud enough for people three cubes away to hear.

The worst is social events though. She does one of two things at every social event outside work. She either spends the whole time complaining because people are drinking/smoking or she attaches herself to some guy and ends up following him home and sleeping with him (which inevitably turns into a whole drawn-out stalkery drama). Why does she even come? Who knows?

We've actually waited and scheduled a BBQ for when she's on vacation so we don't have to deal with her. When she comes back and hears about it, she'll probably be all mad but at least we'll have a fun time without her negative energy bringing everyone down.

[raccoon]

25. I don't blame you guys for planning the BBQ when she's not there.

I had a co-worker sort of like her once--a real downer. She was very unhappy and p.o. at life. She'd come about 10 minutes late every morning, saying G-D this and G-D that. Like your Debbie, she desperately needed therapy and probably an antidepressant as well.

When they downsized, she was gone.

[pdx_prog]

29. Bwahahah...

I actually knew a girl named Debbie Downer...

[SmokingJacket]

30. Some people just identify with their misery.

If they gave it up, they wouldn't know who they were anymore!

I had a friend who mocked and criticized *everything,* even her own kid (not to the kid's face, but to others). I thought she didn't LIKE her kid for the longest time, until I realized she loved her kid but could only express negative feelings in public -- her way of showing that her kid was on her mind was by mocking her behind her back. Weird!

[undeterred]

13. Competition

especially among siblings.

[Kajsa]

14. Touche', Grace.

I would like the answer to that question, also.:shrug:

[gizmo1979]

15. Because it makes me feel better about myself.

Is that so bad?!It's a piss on before being pissed on world.

[Deja Q]

19. Jealousy

[raccoon]

22. Most people are insecure. They are easily threatened, and

to deal with the threat posed by somebody else's competence, they put down the other person.

Also, some people put other people down just to feel better about themselves.

I think it's part of human nature's dark side that most people have to feel superior to SOMEBODY else.

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

23. a multitude of reasons, but one stands above all others

Dale Carnegie wrote there are 7 things which every human needs, the most undernourished one is a feeling of importance. People maybe well fed with a decent family and a solid roof over their heads but may feel hopelessely inconsiquential. Some people make themselves important to other people by shredding others already minute egos in hopes of salvaging their own.

Some people, and by some a mean just about all people are horrible when it comes to discussions involving agreements. It doesn't take much skill to prove somone wrong on something and make them feel stupid, any average human is capable of that. A true debator convinces the other person of their point and brings them over to their side of the issue. The only way of doing this usually is appealing to that person's wants and desires, seeing from their perspective makes them usually more receptive to your opinion.

Example:

Person A: Gay marriage is immoral and should be illegal
Person B: What kind of stupid ass idea is that? What are you some slack jawed bible thumping retard? Christ I'm so tired of religous zealots pushing your god damn religion on the country, don't you realize that christainity has been warped for centuries by countless tyrants to become no more than a tool for mass manipulation???

WRONG!!! You let lose what you may have had on your mind but ask yourself what the heck was your goal? Obivously Person B's goal was not to convince Person A to reconsider his/her stance. All that was accomplished was likely a bitter exchange that resulted in both parties to merely dig there heals in and refuse to even hear what the other person had to say, likely just waiting for the others mouth to simply stop moving so they can get their say in.

Second Attempt

Person A: Gay marriage is immoral and should be illegal
Person B: I suppose so, I'm sure your quite familar with the bible and it is pretty evident that Christainity makes a strong stance against homosexuality and I can definently see exactly where you coming from ... (make your case here keeping Person A's beliefs, desires, and wants in mind while doing so)

I mean otherwise save the time, don't bother trying to debunk the other persons evidence just start yelling, "For the love of god just shut the fuck up. SHUT THE FUCK UP! I've had enough of your shit just SHUT THE FUCK UP! CHRIST YOU MAKE ME SICK" you'll acomplish about the same thing more or less and save yourself a lot of time.

Just my two cents on stuff.

[JVS]

26. because you suck and your ideas are stupid

:evilgrin:

[grace0418]

27. I wuv you too

:)

[pdx_prog]

28. It's the "someone has to lose in order for me to win"

attitute.

John Denver said it best in "It's About Time".... "there's a full moon over India, and Ghandi lives again. Who's to say you have to lose for someone else to win."

He talks about "A deadly game", which is a very simple game where, while in a group of people you play one team against each other. The way you play the game is consistant with the way you live your life. It's a very eye opening revelation after you are finished and have some time to really think about it.

People are so used to the idea that in order for you to win, someone else must lose. Win-win is a hard concept for some people...:)