Gay men - your thoughts on body image.

[Deja Q]

It's as much a valid question as it is a copycat. I have observed gay men prefer only one type of appearance. And it's just that: Appearance. Muscular/thin/no belly/must-be-in-shape. And my being less than perfect in the "fitness" department despite other strong 'selling points' has only solidified my belief that I've been wasting my time all these years looking for a gay man. The stereotyped image seems closer to reality than I've cared to fathom in the past.

I'll also admit I've been looking at the wrong areas; but many of them are personal ad sites that one would think include the entire gamut of gaymendom...

What's your take?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. I'm a lesbian, but what about the "bears"? nt

[Deja Q]

2. Ah, yes. The proportioned ones.

Some bears are more belly-centric. They are ignored. "Bears" means overweight yet "in proportion".

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

3. You seem like a well-proportioned guy to me.

I don't think you're really overweight, but yeah I can see how the gay male community can be really bad. I've been friends with a few eating-disordered gay guys because of it.

[Deja Q]

6. I currently am able to hide it well.

But I am sufficiently overweight and not proportionally so.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

7. Okay, well if you can hide it that it's not too overweight.

Clean up your diet and start doing cardio. If possible, do it in the morning before eating. That way your body is forced to burn fat, since you won't have any fuel left in your stomach. Lift weights too, because the more muscle, the more calories you'll burn.

[Deja Q]

8. Thanks much!

My diet is fine, it's my cardio that's the problem... And I will re-start the muscle program.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

9. No prob.

Even though I don't follow my own advice, I worked as a personal assistant for someone who, as a hobby, was majorly into the Fitness Competition circuit. Learned a lot about the exercise stuff from her. Now that's a job that will make you feel out of shape. Compared to most, I'm in great shape, but compared to fitness competitors, I'm totally out of shape.

[khashka]

92. Don't let him fool you....

He ain't overweight by a long shot. Cuddly might be a better term.

Don't buy into his self consciousness issues - he's deadly cute. Unfortunately he doesn't see it. Bad boy! Don't give him diet advice... he doesn't need it!

Khash.

[Touchdown]

27. You look faily attractive, but you might want to...

do something about those pointy ears and that green skin. Blue pullovers don't go with green skin. :rofl:

[kiraboo]

4. Okay. I've been a hairdresser and I've worked at Berklee

College of Music, so I am VASTLY qualified to comment on gay men and their body images. And I think there are a fair number of great men out there who are just looking for another great man. But confidence plays a big role in success at the hunt. IMHO naturally.

[dfwguy]

5. gm and body image

As a gwm for some 30 years now- I can say with certainty - there is indeed someone for everyone.
You just never know what another guy is going to be (initially) attracted to- The feature about yourself you most dislike- may be the feature another guy finds hot...so- don't knock yourself out of the running before you even start...Though -you may want to lay off the internet introductions and get out in public (bars) (hey- I'm "old fashioned") -
If you are in a larger city- check out the different "types" of clubs - see what happens .

[Deja Q]

11. One day I shall share your optimism, re: "someone for everyone"

Until then, it's just a fairy tale that's not meant for me.

I wholly appreciate your advice and, for reasons I cannot say right now, I am spending more time in public. Bars, peer gatherings, et al. Hasn't helped, but once I changed my outfit to "conform" with the teeming masses of idiocy did people stop laughing. :D

[ThomCat]

10. I have mixed opinions.

While I know there are many gay men out there who don't look like athletes and aren't looking for someone who looks like an athlete, overall I think the gay community can be viciously shallow.

I walk with a cane or with crutches. Despite being fairly attractive, I've been told point blanks

"Why would anyone be interested in you? You're broken."
"Why don't you hang out in an Monster (an bar for older men). Maybe one of them will like you."
(by a bouncer) "This isn't your kind of place. Shouldn't you be home in bed?"

Can you imagine getting a straight guy getting this kind of treatment?

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

12. wait, what?

people actually say those type of comments to your face? :grr: if I was with you, id fucking show them broken :nuke:

[ThomCat]

16. Yes. I've stopped going out to clubs

because of how often I get rude comments. People with disabilities are not well treated in the meat market.

I've gone with friends who were protective, and they've been just as upset. But we end up leaving to avoid a scene, and the way I get treated brings down the whole group. Not a good night out.
:(

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

19. argh.

this shit pisses me off beyond belief. I would have to borrow our crutch if I was with you to give these fuckheads a smack of reality :grr:

[flvegan]

59. I'll go with you. Nobody's saying

anything negative to you. Matter of fact, they'll wonder what kind of special you are that you've either;
A. Got a bodyguard; or,
B. Got a hot boyfriend like me.

Depending upon their take on us hitting the clubs.

[ThomCat]

61. LOL! They'd figure I'm your rich sugar daddy.

:hug:

[flvegan]

62. If so, I'm sure a number of them

would love to take my place. Hope you like the attention.

I'll play it up, too. You find someone you like, and who likes you, I'll go skulking off into the night.

[Deja Q]

66. You definitely need this:

:hug:

:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:

[ThomCat]

67. Thank you!

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Runcible Spoon]

104. that's really pathetic. (of the rude assholes)

I'm not a gay man, but a professed "fag hag" and I'll do the club circuit with my boys from time to time. In addition to all the catty comments about the "old ugly queens" I hear, I'm also occasionally shocked by the blatant harassment of the waify "twinks" and am sometimes disturbed by the sexual objectification of the naive, inexperienced little boy aesthetic...I've literally had to wait outside of the bathroom for one of my friends in particular, to make sure he is not cornered and groped (and this HAS happened!)...I'm not making a generalization here about gay men, but perhaps about the shallow, insecure types who go out and get wasted almost every night and use physical beauty and wanton sexuality to compensate for their feelings of inadequacy and unacceptance in the "larger" world...and certainly not all or even most clubbers are like this, but it's prevalent enough to concern me from time to time...As a young woman with ample, erm, assets, I have rarely experienced this level of sexual objectification even in bars frequented by drunken frat boys...who knows...

[swimboy]

14. Shit!

Now I'm MadAsMadAsHellNewYorker! :grr:

I'd really like to see what those assholes look like in a Karm-O-Scan (tm). What a fucking heart-of-darkness rectal-spirited sucking hole where a soul ought to be. :mad: :nuke:

Sorry, man. That seriously disturbs me. You're the best.

Gah!

[ThomCat]

17. I would love to say that it doesn't bother me.

But I'm not nearly as tough as that. Those comments are the ones I'll never forget.

:hug: That's why you're awesome. You (and other cool DUers) don't think that crutches make me a troll.

[Marnieworld]

29. Can a straight gal be counted in too?

That makes me sick that anyone would say that to you. It makes me sick that they would even think it. How sad and pathetic they must be to have that view of life, love and people? Anyone who has ever loved and had the blessing of being loved would understand that it's about so, so much more than physical appearance and whatever imperfections someone has.

I met my hubby on the internet 9 years ago. I knew I loved him before I ever even saw his picture. He shaved off about 40 pounds in his personal description and I was a bit startled by this when I actually met him in person. As I was hugging him hello I noticed it but in a flash I decided that I didn't care. I chose love instead and I haven't regretted it for a minute.

It's all malleable and meaningless and will all change anyway for everyone. True love lasts through the changes. When I was excited about him before I met him or saw him my friends would ask if I feared what he looked like. I said to them and anyone else who cares now, "If you were about to get the greatest present in the world, one you wanted your whole life, would you care what the gift wrapping looked like?" That's all it is- gift wrapping.

Someone will see the beautiful present that you are I believe. Those bars and clubs, straight or gay are all about the wrapping.

:hug:

[RobinA]

101. But See,

he's talking about MEN. YOU decided to overlook the fact that your future hubby shaved off 40lbs online. Would a guy have done the same if YOU shaved off 40 lbs? I doubt it. Many women get what you are saying, too many guys don't. Guys, gay or otherwise, put too much stock in looks. That's why anybody trying to attract a man is, as a general rule, going to be freaking about looks.

And to those guys who have evolved past looks, cheers. I know you are out there.

[LaurenG]

39. Add me to the list , although I'm not gay or a man

I love my friends who are with all of my heart. Just know that - that is sick behavior and not "normal". We are all born with a heart and those assholes know better than to treat anyone like that. They hate themselves (jesus I can see why) and took it out on you.

I wish that people weren't so heartless and miserable that they'd allow themselves to even think things like that much less say them. :cry: You are one of the good guys, just remember that. :hug: :grouphug: :pals:

[ThomCat]

44. Hi OhioBlues

:blush: Thank you. :hug:

[tjwmason]

18. Let's make that three guys pissed off with your treatment...

:hug: for you :grr: for them.

It is part of a greater problem, the notion of physical perfection as a prerequisite to attention.

I'm far from physically perfect, and I'm about as likely to walk round Soho in a skin-tight t-shirt as I am to get a swastika tattoed onto my forehead. Also, I personally dislike the emaciated look which so many go for, and let's not get onto whether a 30 year-old is past it (I speak as one well below 30, he hastens to add)...the problem is that there is a hard-core of gay-mafia at the centre, the "cool" places which enforce these ridiculous ideas (supported by the gay media with their endless pictures of semi-naked 18 year-olds), so those of us who don't subscribe to it are pushed to the margin.

[ThomCat]

22. Not that I mind semi-naked young men

but you're absolutely right.
:hug:

[enigmatic]

86. Make it four

I'm pissed, too; that shouldn't happen to anybody, let alone a good guy like Thom...

[ThomCat]

88. Thank you.

:hug:

[Duncan Grant]

21. Dear ThomCat,

Add me to the list of gay men who would never allow someone to speak to you like that. :grr:

If you're ever in SF, let me take you out and about. The viciously shallow don't have the market cornered here. :D

-9_S_F

[ThomCat]

23. Awesome!

I may take you up on that at some point. I've been meaning to visit the SF area for a while now.
:hug:

[Schema Thing]

100. Add me to the list of straight men

who would never allow someone to speak to you like that.

goddamn! :mad:

[billyskank]

24. Dude

I'm straight, but I still want to kick some arse on your behalf.

That's fucking outrageous. :nuke:

[tjwmason]

31. We seem to have quite the posse ready

I'm sure that ThomCat wouldn't restrict it to gays either - sympathetic straight folk are always welcome.

[ThomCat]

34. Posse is right. Hell, we'd take over the club.

Gay or straight we'd have a great time. :)

[Dangerously Amused]

89. Can I join your posse?

:bounce:



That would set their pretty heads to spinning!


:hug:

[billyskank]

42. Damn right

nobody does that to our ThomCat! :grr:

[ThomCat]

45. You SO get a hug and kiss for that.

:hug: :*

[billyskank]

48. ...

:* :hug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

28. You know I've got your back.

:hug:

[ThomCat]

36. Yes, I do.

:hug:

I haven't heard back from Priyanka about anything this weekend. Has that fallen through are might we be meeting on Sunday?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

49. She sent me a PM but I forgot to respond until now.

I have her cell # too. Do you need me to PM that? Tomorrow or tonight, I need to go fight at the Verizon store over my broken cell phone. Unfortunately, the phone isn't in my name and the account holder is in FL. Gah! Hopefully, I'll get that taken care of for the weekend. I'm definitely going in on Sunday though.

[ThomCat]

50. I have her number.

I'll PM it to you too. Call me whenever and we'll figure out what we're doing.

[redqueen]

30. I don't know if I'm more mad or sad...

:mad: :( :grr: :cry: :nuke:

okay, seems it's more mad

i'm so sorry thomcat!

you know they're full of shit... ignore those shallow fuckwits... they're not worth your time or energy!

[ThomCat]

37. Obviously I haven't done a very good job of ignoring it.

I do take it personally. But I agree that they're fuckwits. :P
:hug:

[redqueen]

38. Yeah...

I still remember stuff from frickin grade school, so I feel ya.

:pals:

[Deja Q]

65. There is a certain truth to what you say. But nothing is universal either

I would be honored to date you.

As for that bouncer, what a jerk. Report him to managament; most companies want more business these days.

[ThomCat]

69. If it was a one-time thing I'd probaby laugh about it

and I'd post something joking about it. The first time it happened I thought I was dealing with one backwards neandrathal.

Unfortunately, the comments aren't one person, or one occasion. If you look around gay clubs you almost never see anyone with a visible disability. Maybe you never do. It's those kinds of comments that make sure of it. In a subculture that worships ideal bodies having a disability is a devastating blow.

I'm not convinced that the owners would care. After all, they hire bouncers to filter the crowd that comes in so they can maintain an image. Every club wants to be one where the popular pretty boys hang out.

Come to NYC and I'll buy you dinner. :7 :hug:

[Deja Q]

71. Awesome!

Dinner, that is! :hug: I'll get the dessert. :D

Yeah, the clubs are usually a bad experience. I recall my ex, who wasn't keen on them either... but, yeah, they are for a "certain sort". Usually the pristine gay folks, the old men, and the half-nude dancers who find ways of getting the others to stuff money down their embellished swimtrunks...

Oh, and the straight women who think it's all a hoot too. They aren't there to try to convert anybody, lemme tells ya... :D

[roamer65]

83. That treatment

is disrepectful, horrible and downright inexcusable. Everyone deserves decency and common courtesy, but guess I'm an oddball. Go figure.

[ThomCat]

84. Welcome to DU

Oddballs are always welcome.

I had not intended to hyjack this thread with my personal history, but I really appreciate knowing so many good people.
:hi:

[roamer65]

85. Thanks for the welcome

No apology necessary on your personal history. It fits well within the discussion ;)

[AussieDave]

90. It just shows that it takes all kinds to be assholes

I reckon many nightclubs (gay, straight, whatever) are just pretentious full of poseurs who think they're pretty and just want to hang out with other "pretty" "perfect" people. Give me a simple pub or bar any day.

Bitchiness = insecurity

All I can say is take comfort in the fact you ARE better than they'll ever be.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

93. No, the straight guy has to get inside the bar and talk to the women,

before this kind of treatment is administered...

[wildhorses]

13. who is "cattier" ??? Gay men or Women???

HypnoToad....love ya like you are!!! in that friendly Will and Grace kinda way;)
:hug::hug:



one day our princes will come

one for me and one for you


can I have the one on the buckskin?

you can have the one on the whitehorse...

[Wetzelbill]

15. totally freakin' hetero

:)

[progmom]

25. heh

I'm happy for you?

You must be so proud?

[asthmaticeog]

41. Methinks the gentleman doth protest TOO much.

;)

[Wetzelbill]

78. hahaha

Now that was pretty funny. :)

[LaurenG]

43. lol

:rofl:

[Wetzelbill]

74. no I'm just not qualified to answer the question

the OP was proposing. :)

But I like to show up and observe anyway. :)

[arwalden]

52. Uh... Oka-a-a-ay? A-a-and?

:shrug:

[Touchdown]

56. That's just a phase. You'll grow out of it.

You just haven't found the right guy yet. How do you know you don't like it unless you try?:rofl:

[Wetzelbill]

75. I know

do you think if other people are around me too much that they may be afflicted too? :rofl:

[terrya]

57. I'll call the New York Times.

:-)

[Touchdown]

63. I'll tell the NSA.

Wait, they already know. :evilgrin:

[Wetzelbill]

76. yeah but they probably won't report it

unless I found WMDs or something. "_

[Misunderestimator]

64. Congratulations.

:toast:

[Deja Q]

72. ROFL! Your response is sooooo hetero!

:spray:


:applause:




Edited to add :applause:

[Wetzelbill]

77. Hey Ozzie Guillen has been

hurtling insults at my people for soo looonnnng. :)

[CanuckAmok]

20. An interesting read:

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p010353.html

Millions of contemporary boys and men exhibit frank symptoms of at least one of the four disorders above, and possibly tens of millions experience some distress about body image. Why has the Adonis complex grown so prevalent? Our fathers and grandfathers didn't worry about going to the gym or working out on a treadmill. A generation ago, high school boys didn't flock to buy nutritional supplements like protein powders, amino acids and creatine. The most masculine icons of Hollywood-John Wayne, Gregory Peck or James Dean-were wimps in comparison to the muscled superheroes of the modern screen. Cosmetic surgery for men was almost unheard of. The term a six-pack of abdominal muscles, now known to every schoolboy, had not yet been coined. What has changed in the last 30 years? While space does not permit a full answer to this question, two major changes are unique to the present generation: the appearance of anabolic steroids and the empowerment of women.

Anabolic steroids were developed in the 1930s and '40s, but it was not until the 1970s and '80s that usage became widespread (Yesalis, 1993). Steroids have shattered a million-year-old equilibrium of nature by making it possible to create men far leaner and more muscular than any naturally occurring man. The images of these steroid-pumped bodies have propagated into advertising, television soap operas, professional wrestling shows, movies and magazine covers. Even action figures-the little plastic heroes used by young boys in play-now sport huge muscles in comparison to their counterparts of a generation earlier (Pope et al., 1999). Thus, from early childhood, boys are assaulted with thousands of images of steroid-sized bodies, all conveying the subtle message that this is how an ideal man should look. For decades, women have had to cope with images of impossibly beautiful female bodies-which have likely fueled women's anxieties about their body appearance (Garner et al., 1980). Now men are getting a dose of the same medicine.

A second possible source of men's body insecurities is the growing empowerment of women. Although inequities between men and women still exist, today's women can fly combat aircraft, run multinational corporations, and compete with men in most jobs and professions. Men's traditional sources of masculine self-esteem-as breadwinners, soldiers and defenders-have eroded. What does a man have left to distinguish himself as a man? Some men, consciously or unconsciously, may see their bodies as a last refuge: women can have equal rights in every walk of life, but they cannot bench-press 300 pounds. Thus, men may focus increasingly on their bodies.

My colleagues and I hypothesize that these social forces combine with biological and psychological risk factors to create body image concerns and disorders in men.





http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684869101/104-3601883-7756748?v=glance&n=283155

[redqueen]

32. Yup... body dysmorphism... it's not just for females anymore! n/t

[ThomCat]

53. Interesting.

If it's true that empowerment of women causes body image problems in men then society is more messed up than I thought. If guys are being raised to think that their masculinity is based on the supposed weakness of women then their masculinity is a very strange and fragile sham.

As a guy I don't see this personally and hadn't considered it. But now I'm going to look around at otehr guys and consider this.

[CanuckAmok]

82. There's more to it....

Young men, and I mean aged 12-20 and in Western Culture for the sake of argument, don't really have a "purpose" anymore. There was a time, when we were hunter/gatherers, when it was the young males' job to bring home the baconosaurus.

I think that what we're seeing today is the result of a hundred or so years of marginalisation of young men. Yes, a part of this is the rise of the womens' movement, but it would be far too simplistic to "blame" the womens' movement. There are other factors such as the shift from labour requiring physical strength, the mechanisation of warfare and of the means of production, the corporate hierarchy. Is blame necessary at all? Personally, I don't think so. It's evolution, and whether evolution os biological or societal, it just happens, and nobody is really 'to blame'.

There's even the very real possibility (which is touted as good by some of the more loathsome feminist "thinkers") that men are no longer needed in the reproductive process. So even the most basic of human impulses, that to reproduce and nurture, is being suppressed in men. And even before this was a scientific reality, young men have been denied equal right of access to children/family in the event of a divorce/separation/relocation for decades, if not hundreds of years.

So, without a "purpose", young men can be expected, among other behavior, to turn inward, and exercise the one control they perceive as being intact; the control of (and use of) their own bodies. And, with that realisation comes the possibility of body dysmorphia.

It's recognised that advertising (and its trained media) targets young women with campaigns designed to diminish self-esteem and to create conveniently-packaged 'solutions' to these issues. But what is less recognised that this marketing technique is also used on men. Look at basically any male 'role model' who's shirtless on a screen or on the cover of a magazine, and you're seeing a body-type that is unobtainable for 99% of men. Society (including advertisers) tells us that these men are the platonic ideal of desirability, and that by not obtaining a similar build and BFI, you're a failure as a man. Additionally, unlike marketing aimed at womens' apperance, marketing aimed at mens' appearance does not acknowledge that men's body types are all shapes and sizes. Nobody pitches an ad for a exercise routine that will give a young girl Angelina Jolie's lips and breasts (instead they tacitly or overtly state that such products can "create the illusion of...whatever", or that a perfect ______ is one day-surgery away), but every single ad campaign aimed at mens' appearence implies that every man has what the Greeks called "the Golden Section", or "divine proportion", and that realising a "perfect" build is strictly a matter of how hard you can work-out, how much weight you can press, and how much you can spend. Don't have the build of a 30-year old Schwarzenegger? Then you've failed, because you din't work hard enough or buy enough dietary suppliments.

[XemaSab]

87. Look at old pictures of lumberjacks

They're all whip-thin dudes running that crosscut saw all day.

[Touchdown]

26. I'm fat, and I know it.

Yeah, the body image women have is only amplified in Gaydom. I hate bars. I can drink beer at home and get ignored for cheaper. Besides, I don't have to put up with that screaming bitch music they think is sooo that.

[ThomCat]

35. If they'd turn the volume down to something tolerable

the clubs would be more tolerable. Even being ignored, it would at least be nice to do some people-watching. But yeah, I pretty much agree with you.

[Touchdown]

54. I love people watching...and shooting.

I'm a shutterbug, and take pictures of everything and everyone. Some (like the drag queens) ham it up and pose. Others look at me like I'm a pervert. I'm taking pictures in public. You have your clothes on. You are doing something interesting. What's perverted about that? Too many gays men think it's all about them.:eyes:

I've taken 6 senior protraits for friend's kids in the last year. Six of them were girls, no questions about them. One of them was a boy. My gay "friend" asked me if he liked the naked ones I took of him, as if that's the only reason for me to have a camera. The KID IS A HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR, for Christ's sake! Here I was, proud of the fact that I got my first paying photography job, and after he went on about his optometrist visit, which was as exiting as watching paint dry, he shits all over my good feelings. Not every day you have a supposed trusted friend who understands what stereotypes gays have to put up with, makes a wisecrack about me being a child pornographer. He never acknowledged that he insulted me. He apologized for me "not understanding humor":grr:

I'd be beating somebody up if I was with you and they said those things. Obviously they don't want your money. Nobody has a right to treat you like that, especially if it's a place of business, night club or not. Have they ever heard of the ADA?

I got your back if you come to Denver.:hug:

[redqueen]

33. I'm a woman and not gay, but...

:hi:

:hug:

[Skittles]

46. I always make sure they are not talking about me

hehe:P

[redqueen]

47. hahahaha

:hi:

[swimboy]

98. well that just means we like a lot of the same things!

:hi: ;) :hug:

[6000eliot]

40. I like a guy with a bit of a belly

And I loathe that gym-bunny hairless image you see in all the gay publications. It does nothing for me.

[Deja Q]

73. Kewl!

I'm working on reclaiming my lost health and I do have a bit of a belly. (my diet is great, it's cardio that's my problem...)

With luck I'll be rid of it in a year or so, and I'm not totally gross with it, but it is not healthy to have. (and I've felt the effects...) Just for health, I will never be a 10-hr-a-day fluffy gym bunny...

[khashka]

51. The gay community tends to be

very youth and perfect body oriented. More so even than straight culture,.Not true, at all, when it comes to individuals. though. My tastes wouldn't fit the "gay standard" at all.

You are looking in the wrong places.... personal sites can be even worse than bars....

Khash.

[ThomCat]

55. Personals sites are poisonous.

I have a funny story about one though.

One of my best friends, Tracey, decided that I wasn't meeting enough men and she knows I hate personals. So she went and wrote a personal add for me and submitted it. "Thom needs to meet someone. Write to me and I'll set you up with him."

She then came to me with a list of names and phone numbers and insisted I call them, or else...

I met one psycho, one guy who was only looking for an instant husband, two guys who just wanted to jump into bed for mindless sex, and then finally a guy who (along with his husband) is now among my best friends.

[KurtNYC]

58. In my experience there are about 4 major categories for gay men

1 - guys who hook up and move on. Personal ads seem to be dominated by this group. They go to the gym so they can post all those numbers in their ads (eg. 15-inch biceps, 6-pack, etc). Unless YOU too want to shop for a new date every night it is best to ignore these types.

2 - relationship oriented guys. These are tougher to find partly because many of them are IN a relationship at any given time. When they aren't, they may hook up but it is generally used as a way to find another relationship. You have to be out of the closet to be in a serious relationship. Look for guys who are "out" at work and in general.

3 - "straight" guys, aka "curious", "experimenting" etc. One can have a long-term relationship with some in this category but it depends on their personal growth and can be frustrating. This category included married guys - they have made the closet into a lifestyle. Again a relationship is possible but it depends on their growth. eg. they have to be at a turning point in their lives.

4 - sex addicts. Some of these may not be gay so much as just pan-sexual and addicted to sex, use it for escapism, etc. Many of these guys have other addictions - meth, booze, gambling, etc. Avoid.

Maturity (emotional) generally takes a longer time to develop in gay men. I just don't know too many guys who got into a decent relationship before they turned 35, myself included. So my criteria is basically "out" and over 35.

[Roon]

60. It's rough

A year ago I was totally into physical fitness. Worked out every day, had the sixpack abs and everything! But I wasn't getting anywhere with meeting anyone. I guess it was my age.

Getting fat, getting old, and going bald are some of the worst things that can happen to a gay guy. I am just glad my current boyfriend doesn't care about body shape and all that. I have put on a lot of weight since I stopped working out.

[Guy Fawkes]

68. unfortunately common problem...

it does seem that a lot of gay men are very concerned with looks. Though I would say there are way more (less vocal) gay men who care nothing for looks. They just don't hang out on personal add sites.

[xchrom]

70. i would say that just like in the rest of society there are far more

out of shape, overweight gay men than there are the reverse.

while not true right now -- it's my habit to go to the gym workout -- lift weights -- watch what i eat.

why? because i want to go out with guys who look similar -- and have similar habits.

i'm not into guys with love handles -- so i try not to have them myself.

[Deja Q]

79. Logical.

Hence my desire to get healthy again (not you, just so I can conform to our pathetic shallow stereotype). Having a surgery didn't help, but at this point that's no longer a problem. :thumbsup: But not all men who are out of shape are lazy or eat McCrap all day long. Some have actual problems too.

Thanks for your honesty. It is a valide POV. But I still have mine about our "community" and why I've made posts in the recent past about being reluctant to be supporting it. But I wouldn't bias an otherwise cute guy just because of luv handles or even a slight belly. Especially if they were "packed" in what gay men must love the most, otherwise we may as well be hetero... it is more comfortable to be around the same type of person as one's self... but that can be boring as hell too.

[xchrom]

80. i live in the bay area -- and i can say for a fact --

that men with all kinds of body types find other men to date -- get into relationships with.

that was also true when i lived in peoria.

and all that in spite of this stereotype.

so make of that what you will.

[Deja Q]

99. I am glad there are decent people about.

And don't get me wrong; I've been doing the right things to get back into proper shape.

And I've been going to the wrong places too.

I found others. And that's what counts.

[roamer65]

81. The gay male community

definitely does have a youth and physique fixation, more so than straights. There is nothing wrong with being selective and single, since nowadays a bad relationship (gay or str8) can often result in financial devastation. I had a friend who was just about driven to bankruptcy by his gay lovers. Really opened my eyes to relationships in general. My motto since has been "Friendship first". Do you have any hobbies? Maybe joining a hobby club may help. You may find "Mr. Right" who has the same interests as you. ;)

[Deja Q]

97. Been there and done that

Thanks anyway but I have done the hobby thing.

And just about everything else.

I can give the groups I stopped another go, but I do not anticipate anything better will occur because of it.

I think the gay community is cruder too. I may make double entendres as jokes, but I certainly don't go around in a truck with a large inflated you-know-what tied to the top. I can't believe the people of 20 years ago risked their livelihoods so today's 18 year olds could be so pointlessly crude.

Interesting, GLBT Pride history. I wish it was 20 years ago. Target and Best Buy wouldn't have bothered...

[RobinA]

103. Pointless Crudity

Unfortunately, the increasing amount of pointless crudity in our society is by no means a monopoly of the gay community.

[Placebo]

91. I am worse than my girl friends when it comes to body image.

Anything they say about themselves, and they say some pretty harsh things, I say stuff 10 times worse. And I believe it. I'm a hideous disgusting creature, poster child for abortion.

I've been told quite a few times, "You're kind of fat...for a gay guy."

[SacredCow]

94. I can easily understand your frustration...

I guess I have to plead guilty in being attracted to a fairly specific type; however, it's not the description that you gave. Truly, I think that there is someone out there for everyone.

[querelle]

95. No Short Men!

As a gay man, I don't have a specific body type (bear, twink, etc.), but I don't like short guys no matter what they look like. I am 5'11" and like a guy to be at least my height or more. The current squeeze is a really hot Portuguese guy who is my height and oh so............you get the idea. He's hairy, artistic, educated, and he introduced me to fado, which I love. Love you Paulo!

Q

[Touchdown]

96. Oh' come on. Mini-gays are so convenient.

Their the perfect travel size homosexual. You can pack them anywhere!:evilgrin:

[Deja Q]

102. No pun intended!

:spray: