Question: Do you believe ghosts/spirits/aparitions are real?

[The Straight Story]

Or when we die we are dead, or that 'ghosts' are really demons in disguise, etc?

I ask this because I recently bought a digital tape recorder and decided to see if I could catch some EVP's (electronic voice phenomenon - ie, voices recorded that should not be there).

I have so far captured several of them. Things from 'go away' to 'I killed us' (reversed it says, 'I don't like you'). I have 10 more I am working on cleaning up (ie, getting rid of excessive noise, amplifying, et al.)

I am generally skeptic myself on such things, and decided to try it all out for myself. It is pretty eerie to hear such things on a tape. Most of them I have came from a cemetary and quite a few from an abandoned house.

I don't know if they are ghosts, or just voices from something or other (some speculate certain material things hold voices much like tapes do and under right circumstances play back).

Anyone else here ever delve into this?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Nope.

I believe it's all made up.

[The Straight Story]

6. Ok, so it's made up - how to explain the voices then?

Seriously wondering how they get there.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. I think you're making them up.

Or perhaps you recorded the radio, TV, or somebody talking when you weren't noticing.

[The Straight Story]

11. Hmmmm

In the middle of a cemetary with only two words here and there? A radio would be more persistent on the recording (ie, would not be just here and there in one spot).

Same with talking, etc.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. So what did you actually do?

Leave a tape recorder overnight in a cemetery?

[The Straight Story]

18. no, I walk around with it asking questions here and there

Usually about 1/2 hour per recording.

[Beware the Beast Man]

2. I never seen anything "supernatural,"

but to completely write off its existence is something I still won't do.

[Kajsa]

4. I'm with Beware the Beast Man.

I have seen "things" I cannot logically explain.


I cannot prove the existence of " spirits" but neither can I
deny they exist. I believe most of them are cordial.

Why wouldn't they exist?

[xchrom]

3. yep.

[northzax]

5. nope

the soul is intimately tied to the body, one cannot survive long without the other.

[NNadir]

7. Yes. I have been dead for years and am haunting here.

[Fox Mulder]

8. I haven't seen anything personally, but

I do believe they may exist.

Edit: I've always wanted to go on a ghost hunt like they do on the tv show "Most Haunted", which is on Friday nights on the Travel Channel.

[Arugula Latte]

9. Nope.

However, some things ARE hard to explain, so I won't close my mind completely to the possibility ...

[MorningGlow]

12. Oh heck yeah

I've experienced quite a bit, but very little of the malevolent sort. When a very clear, very loud voice says "hello" to you, and the only other person in the house is far away, you tend to start believing pretty damn fast!

[dysfunctional press]

58. daniel berkowitz sure did!

he even went as far as to do things that the voices told him to do...

[Wetzelbill]

13. I don't fully know

I lean towards saying that something does exist, because I have seen and heard some things which I cannot explain. Not logically. I have heard lots of stories from pretty credible people too. But as for saying something does "for sure" that I just don't know.

[Ariana Celeste]

15. I won't deny the possibility

Who really knows for sure? I've had odd experiences that I can't explain. Who am I to deny the experiences of others?

We don't have explanations for everything yet. :hi:

[Neoma]

16. I'd rather believe in aliens.

[Fox Mulder]

17. I believe aliens exist too.

Who woulda thunk it? :D

[Neoma]

19. Kinda obvious.

Name being Fox Mulder an all.

[Arugula Latte]

20. I think it's entirely rational to believe in "aliens"

I mean, in a universe as mind-boggling vast as ours, it seems possible, nay, likely, that at least one or two or three and probably many, many more planets have conditions conducive to advanced life forms. However, whether those life forms have actually visited THIS planet is another matter entirely.

[Neoma]

23. Technically i only believe in bacteria on mars right now.

But yeah, i suppose so.

[bikebloke]

21. It was probably nothing...

Once I was running in an orienteering meet at night. The controls had a small torch inside the flag. I was navigating towards one control in an abandoned family cemetary - forest had long since reclaimed the land. I saw a light, and started after it. Then out of the corner of my eye, I saw the control flag with its light. When I looked over towards the light I was following, it was gone. Later I asked if anyone else was out there, but only one other person had run that particular course and they were long finished. So I probably saw a ghost that was leading me to the Hellmouth. That's was close.

[Fox Mulder]

24. Leading you to the Hellmouth?

Were you at least carrying a stake? :P

[tinfoilinfor2005]

22. I have experienced lots of other worldly phenomenon

in the sixty years of my life. Mostly messages through dreams that have come true from deceased friends and relatives.
Also, when I was still nursing and taking care of dying patients, I experienced many vibrations and noises from what I assumed were their deceased family members. Had I had a recorder to turn on during these times, I think it may have recorded some voices. One very dear lady who I nursed for many years lived in the home of her deceased husband who she felt was near to her on many occasions. When she was dying, the entire house seemed to come alive and make noise. It was as though her husband was hanging around and waiting for her, and he was so very restless in the final hours. Once she passed, there were no more noises or strange events (closet doors and cupboards opened and shut).
The only thing I don't understand is why on earth the spirits of the deceased would want to spend time in a cemetery. Being free to go wherever, I think that is the last place I would want to hang out.

[MorningGlow]

25. From what I understand

After quite a few years studying this kind of thing, I've learned that while cemeteries can be spooky places simply by association ("hey there are dead bodies underfoot eww" etc.), they're actually among the least haunted places. You're right, Tinfoilin--ghost prefer to be elsewhere. This may be a gross oversimplification, but there appear to be several different kinds of ghosts, and the two main ones are 1) a shadow of what the person was like when s/he was alive and 2) a more self-aware, conscious spirit.

The first kind is like an echo, or more accurately a tape loop--a bit of a leftover imprint from when the person was alive. We'd see it as a person going through the motions of what s/he used to do when alive, not aware of anybody else. Like a woman cooking breakfast in the kitchen, for example. She would appear to be standing at a stove and would never look at us even if we tried to get he attention.

The second kind is what you experienced, Tinfoilin--the actual spirits of beings who just don't happen to have a body at this particular point in their existence. They might be someone who doesn't want to be here but didn't pass over to the other side properly, or the spirits of people who came back for some reason, like what you experienced--to collect a loved one who's about to pass over. They can and do interact with us.

And both kinds--the shadow and the actual spirit--usually choose to be in a place that they were very familiar with in life. And it isn't necessarily where they died (and most likely not where they were buried)--it's usually the place they feel the strongest connection to--positive (loving family memories, a favorite job) or negative (where they were killed, for example).

And then there are other spirits, like those who choose to hang around here for whatever reason (they're not exactly lost), and beings who have never been incarnated into a body, and...and...oh I do go on. But you get the idea.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

26. Yes, I get the idea, and my experiences are very much as you

describe them. In the instance where I felt the husband had come on her dying day, the air or the house or whatever had such a strong vibration that it was like loud noise, only nothing you could hear in your ears. I actually remembering stomping my foot and yelling at "him" to stop it, because with all that commotion, I couldn't properly take care of her. (It was a large home and I was alone with her, and I was running to another room to make and answer phone calls to doctor and family) and she was physically ill, so I was trying to keep her clean, running to and from the bathroom, etc. And the buzzing in the house was so loud that it was distracting me, so when I actually yelled at him to stop it so that I could concentrate on her care, the noise stopped instantly.
I know that sounds crazy to anyone who wasn't there, but that is exactly how it was. And I don't see little green men and I don't hallucinate. And I was a nurse for many years and have taken care of many dying people, and it doesn't make me loony, so that wasn't it either.

Now I'm rambling. But you get the idea. :)

[The Straight Story]

28. The theory on that (why they would hang out in a cemetary)

Is that some have a desire to be close to their bodies.

[jobycom]

27. No, but I don't disbelieve in them, either, if that makes sense.

I don't believe in ghosts or anything like them, and am firm in that, but I accept that I could be wrong. Obviously there are things I haven't experienced. Most people I hear talk about their supernatural experiences are easily dismissed--they are crazy, they are gullible, they are superstitious, they voted for Bush, they see other things that aren't there, etc. But there are some people not so easy to dismiss. I still don't believe them, but I know that I could be wrong, so I don't stake my metaphysical life on it.

[The Straight Story]

29. I am not so sure I believe in them either really

From a christian perspective the soul goes to paradise, or you 'sleep' until judgement day, etc.

I watched a lot of ghost shows, and had experiences of my own over my 40 years of life.

I started doing the evp thing because it seemed like something I could actually test out for myself. I was very surprised that things did start showing up.

When I get back from vacation I will work to get my mp3's online and will post here when I do for others to hear and judge for themselves.

[Robeson]

30. Nope.

[leftofthedial]

31. real what?

[The Straight Story]

32. IE:

Real versus imagined - to wit, such things as living beings in another dimension/spirit world who once existed in this plane of reality.

Further: a soul, which exists within humans (and perhaps others in the animal kingdom) that persists after the physical part of their being expires (sort of like electricity in a wire, does the electricity that conducts it carry on when the conductor is removed).

The core premise being: does there exist a part of us that exists outside the physical us which is not fully reliant on the physical part we encompass?

I would refer one to flatland and discussions about a 4d sphere and how it interacts with a 3d world - and how the soul (or spirit/ghost/et al) could exist on a different plane while being connected to this plane and is 'set free' when the ties that bind on this plane are cut off. One might compare this to computers and data bases - where the core server exists at one data center but the actual data lives on a san somewhere else (or even within the same center). When the core server is gone can we still find and interact with the data?

[leftofthedial]

33. go on!

they are real something, but not all that.

what have you been smoking?

serious?

pull the other one.

[The Straight Story]

35. Smoking cigarettes only :)

I am a skeptic, always have been. A big fan of James Randi at times (though I think he is a bit closed minded).

I did this experiment in evp to see for myself. And am a little taken aback at how much I have heard.

My wife was alone in an abandoned house, and I heard things from that recording that are down right eerie.

So what is it that I am hearing (and others as well, I sent the mp3's to my engineers who are mystified as well)?

When you are listening to a tape from a cemetary and hear 'go away' while playing it back, where does that come from?

Hell - I DON'T know, that is what I want to find out. You have any ideas??

[leftofthedial]

37. I swear my old house was haunted

as was a house I lived in 35 years ago

[The Straight Story]

39. What makes you think it was haunted?

I lived in a place that I think was haunted. The reasons:

1. My 2 year old talked many times about a little boy that she saw. I was once on the phone with the wife (I was at work) and our daughter asked - 'Mommy, who is that' as she was pointing to the kitchen. My wife saw no one, but hannah often spoke of a little boy who played with her.

2. While wife was out of town with daughter my daughter's blues clues dog started talking on it's own (it talked when you squeezed it's paw). It was doing this so often I moved it to a higher shelf. And it stopped. I moved it back down later thinking it was a battery issue, and while wife was on the phone with me it started doing it again. As soon as I moved it back up (out of reach??) it stopped and did not do it again.

3. one of our silver plated candlelabras in the dining room (the most haunted part of house we thought) flew off the mantle and broke in two. We were in the other room and heard it. Another set of candle holders fell off in the bedroom a few nights later.

4. A photo I need to dig up. My wife was out of town (her folks live in CA, we in OH) and she wanted me take some photos of the place inside to mail to her mom. The house was above a store and was very long, I could see from the kitched past the play room to the dining room, then living room, and into the bedroom. The place was built in 1865 and used to be a Dr's office and home btw. I could tell the first shot was a little blurry so I snapped a second one. A few months later I got around to scanning in the good image, and we saw the head of a small kid in the bedroom. I scanned in the blurry one and nothing was there (hard to miss, even blurry it would have shown up).

And there were many more things there which led us to believe it might be haunted.

But as noted before, I am somewhat skeptical of hauntings and ghosts and all that. As a christian I cannot reconcile such things with my beliefs. But I have had enough experiences to make me think twice about it all.

[leftofthedial]

40. I'm about to pass out. long day

but I'll pick this up tomorrow night if you're still interested.

noises, apparitions, voices, smells, touches . . .

[The Straight Story]

42. I am heading out of town in the AM

Hopefully, I will be able to get on the internet at family's home in IL. If not, will be Friday night before I am home. So if I don't reply don't think I spooked out ;)

[bedazzled]

34. both my dad and my uncle were talking to their relatives who had passed

right before they died themselves. i don't know if it was imagination or they were there to help
them pass over.

i hear that happens a lot

[The Straight Story]

36. My earliest experience in all this

Was when grandma died in 1977. I was 12.

I was in Mrs. Leonard's class (6th grade) and she told us to turn to some story in the book we were using. I was flipping the pages back and forth real fast and stopped suddenly when I saw a 3d image of jesus in the pages. Yeah, poke fun at me. But I swore I saw it and started flipping through the book again looking for it. This was right after recess.

When I got home, I found out grandpa had found grandma dead in her bed at about the same time. I remember maybe 5 things from all of sixth grade, but I remember that more than any of them. I am 40 now, 28 years later I see the events of that day clearly. I saw that image, came home, dad put me on his lap as he sat in the station wagon, and told me grandpa has died. I said grandpa? he said, no I mean grandma. And later that evening I recounted my story to my mom's best friend who had come over.

Not sure anyone believed me now or then. But I saw what I saw. Grandma was a member of the eastern star, as christian as anyone I had ever known, as more charitable than most I know now.

In ALL my years of school and life I have never seen anything like that. And sure, Jesus probably does not look like our vision of him thesedays. But that is what I saw and it stood out in my mind that day - so clear I can even go back to that school today, show the exact spot I was in, and even where the sun was falling on the carpet.

As a side note - they are tearing down the school this year to rebuild it. And until I called them they had no idea that we put a time capsule there in 1976. They are going to dig it up and have all former students come to the site for it's unveiling. I remember putting into it some math stuff :)

[Random_Australian]

38. No, they don't exist outside of our minds.

[The Straight Story]

41. ok, I can grep that - so what is it then I am hearing?

and others?

I am just looking for answers.

Do a search for evp's and listen to some. Some are, well weird. But some are pretty darned clear and answer questions.

Not wanting to take other people's experiences as gospel I set out to try this myself - with a lot of results I cannot explain.

I am waiting for science to fill me in - but science is not endeavoring to examine evidence.

[Random_Australian]

43. No, science is not endevouring to examine the evidence, for good reason.

The reason you hear stuff? All the systems that deal with the senses in your mind are there for the express purpose of de-randomising anything they can, (as in, allowing you to see, taste, feel, touch). These systems are very powerful.

Watch a TV screen when it is set shortly below a channel sometime, (when there is more black than white) and you can soon see cities, mountains, all sorts of stuff.

The mind just derandomised information which was probably within 5 SD of the mean.

There is your explanation.

As for scientists not examining the evidence, when you take a looong look at say, crop circles, and a glance at self-similar chaos, you will quickly find any of this 'paranormal' stuff is pretty bland.

Edit: P.S. Do NOT put this down to lack of experience.

[The Straight Story]

44. Have to disagree with you on it all

De-Randomizing voices? I can understand if it was random noised I am trying to understand and make something out of nothing. But when you hear something clearly out of the ordinary it makes you wonder.

I would like to explain it all away with a simple - this does not fit my belief and therefore cannot be true at all, cased closed.

But I cannot.

Get some respected scientists (ones you think are appropriate) to test all this out. I am all for a rational explanation to it all. I spent about 200 dollars on equipment and software to look into all this myself. And I walk away with things which don't fit our current scientific model of things.

I factored in cars, people talking far away, dogs barking, and my own biases. I felt it was all something which I could never experience.

And a note here on that: My view was I am a skeptic of my own faith. I want to believe in god and an afterlife but have no proof - and I am a guy that likes proof. I felt I would never reocrd anything in my search as that would verify my ideals of an afterlife.

So now here I sit, with voices I cannot explain, and what I am looking for is a good scientific reply - not one that says I am nuts and hearing voices.

[Random_Australian]

45. Nuts? I find that pretty offensive actually.

What the hell did you read in my post?

"hearing voices" ... I never said you were nuts, AAAAAAAAAGHH!

Wait a tick... did you understand the 5 SD of the mean bit?

It just means that even if you record random noise, you will get some noise that does not sound the same as the rest of the noise. (If we must take it to clumsy analagies, then the monkeys pressing random keys making words eventually one will have to do)

Hearing voices? The kind you hear when people speak to you was the kind I was referring to.

Let me put it like this - get two sounds. One is the sound of someone saying something quietly, the other something that is the same, but from random noise. How is your brain going to tell them apart?

Nuts indeed.

You don't hear nearly as well as you think you hear, your brain puts it in. Sheesh.

Finally, do the excercise like I said with the random dots on the TV screen. You are NOT nuts for having eyes, ears, and a brain.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHH!!! Derandomising voices? Just noises.

Sorry for getting a bit flamey.

And here is one last thing:

"I would like to explain it all away with a simple - this does not fit my belief and therefore cannot be true at all, cased closed."

If you were stating it for yourself, ok. If not, that happens to be diametrically opposed to what some others think... like us sciencey types especially.

Again, speaking from experience.

P.S.
"Get some respected scientists "

Don't take this the wrong way, but they have better things to do. Why? Because of how fast scientific knowledge is expanding, people COULD work with crop circles and voices, or they COULD work on the cure for cancer. That is why.

[dysfunctional press]

54. "200 dollars on equipment and software"

ummm...who did it get purchased from...?

is it at all possible that the "software" is somehow "adding" the voices to the sound...? do the people you bought your "equipment" from have any reason to want to sell more of it to more people?

[The Straight Story]

59. It's all OTC the stuff as it were

Digital voice recorders, adobe audition (though audacity is free and works well), good head phones, mircophones, and some misc stuff.

[dysfunctional press]

60. one question-

if ghost exist- what makes you think that they would hang around in a cemetery...?

[MorningGlow]

49. Gotta jump in here

As my posts above show, I'm a firm believer in ghosts and other supernatural phenomena--I just can't NOT believe it, after everything I've seen and heard.

So RA, I truly am interested in how a nonbeliever such as yourself would explain something like what happened to me in a New Orleans hotel a few years ago--I mean, I sincerely want to understand--not being snarky or trying to incite an argument.

Anyway, this is what happened: Around 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning I woke up because the door to our room was banging, like someone was yanking on the doorknob, trying to get in. I wasn't really surprised--we were half a block off Bourbon Street and I thought some drunken moron was trying to get into the wrong room. As I was wondering if I should call the front desk, the banging stopped. That was odd, because I never saw anyone go past the window, and we were at the end of the hall (the upper floors were motel like, with doors and windows looking out over an open walkway), so where did the drunken lout go? I didn't know and at that hour of the night didn't care. So I decided I'd just go back to sleep.

Then the bed started shaking. I mean REALLY shaking. I've been in earthquakes before, and that wasn't it--I even looked at other pieces of furniture in the room to see if they were jiggling, and they weren't. It was really impressive, as it takes quite a bit of energy for a being without a corporeal body to make something as large as a bed (with two adults in it) move like that. (Mr. MorningGlow slept through the whole thing--convenient excuse, I know, but true. And no, I hadn't been drinking! :-) )

The next day I asked the front desk clerk if they had a ghost, not offering up any information. He told me what their ghost (a previous owner, when it was a private home, not a hotel) did, and it certainly fit with what I experienced.

So that's probably my most dramatic experience. What's your take on that? Thanks! :-)

[Random_Australian]

51. My take takes a while, and I must sleep now, exams tomorrow.

Will discuss then.

cya.

Goodnight.

[MorningGlow]

56. Have a good night

And good luck on your exams!

[dysfunctional press]

53. "Do a search for evp's and listen to some..."

and how does anyone know that ANY of the "evp's" they find and listen to are authentic...?

because nobody would ever lie about such a thing?

:eyes:

also- if "ghosts" and "spirits" existed- why would they hang around in a cemetery?

[NMMNG]

46. I don't believe in anything supernatural

Though all that stuff makes for very entertaining reading, TV and movies.

[tjwmason]

47. Yes.

I've seen and experienced far too much to fall for the easy solution that there is nothing supernatural - there have always been phenomena which science can't explain, and I reckon that there will always be too.

I also believe that the mind has an incredibly capacity to convince itself of things.

In your specific case, and indeed in any other specific case, I'm not going to speculate on whether this is an internal mental event or a 'genuine' external one - but I believe that both exist.

[Vidar]

48. Sometimes. No experience with EVPs though.

[NewWaveChick1981]

50. Yes....

... I have had a personal experience involving cold spots and being tapped on the shoulder by no one in a house that was supposedly haunted. :) No EVPs or anything like that, but the experience I had convinced me. :)

[dysfunctional press]

52. absolutely not.

nt.

[LaurenG]

55. I do believe that we live on in

electro/magnetic energy. According to Einstein, energy doesn't die, it only changes form. Plus I've had my share of shannaigans from who can say where for sure. Maybe the government has taught agents to be invisible and turn lights off and on and break things.

[dipsydoodle]

57. Yes - got a ghost in my house

I only ever saw her during the first eight years or so after I moved into the house in 1991. She's still about though - my Persian cats pick up on her and react. She doesn't seem to be at all malevolent.

The house was built 1843. The woman is less than 5 foot tall and wearing a floor length tunic dress with an apron over that. The adjoining house is the same age as mine and she seems to disappear either through the wall into their hallway or into what was a joint scullery at the end of the halls from when either the houses were one or doors interconnected them both.

[MiniMandaRuth]

61. Oh yeah.

Parents don't believe me... but I think that our house is haunted. I've had several rather bad experiences with my ghosts... Scratches appearing on my body for no reason (I watch them happen), things being misplaced in my room (Not by a few inches... I once put my shoes on one side. They moved to exactly the spot across the room. Parents/pets do not come in room... so that rules it out). I've watched some of my paintings on my wall sway back and forth while everything else stays still.

Scary stuff.

I told a friend about this. She said that kids are much more intune with the supernatural... so that could explain why my parents haven't noticed a thing.

[WoodrowFan]

62. No, but

I know lots of folks who do, and I find the stories entertaining. And yeah, I'd feel creepy in a "haunted" house alone and at night. Although, I WORK in a "haunted" house and it normally doesn't bother me.....

[mvd]

63. I think..

there must be something unexplained. Too many people (including my dad) have had experiences over the years. My dad only experienced little things like a fan turning on suddenly in an old ambulance (this happened when he was young,) and a cold spot in his father's apartment after he died. My faith isn't big on ghosts, but I believe maybe some people do get trapped.

[mvd]

64. BTW, I'm too scared of the unknown to be..

an investigator. I might stay overnight in a haunted house if I know the ghost is friendly. It is said that ghosts tend to develop the personalities they had before they died, though the violence level of the violent in life is usually less.

[WoodyTobiasJr]

65. I'm still not sure either way

I think there is so much we as humans don't know that we can't rule out the possibility that they exist.
I don't know if I would like to find out either. I'm kind of a pansy.
Every once in a while one of our cats will jump off the couch, run up to one of the walls, look up to the ceiling and then start meowing and the top of his lungs and trying desperately to climb the walls. That's pretty freaky.

I always thought the video of the supposed ghost of King Edward VII that was caught on CCTV a few years ago was pretty cool.