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Shadowen Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:42 PM
Original message
X3: A Kick In The Teeth
This will contain spoilers and foul language. Avert your eyes.

This will contain spoilers. Avert your eyes.

The Good: The X in the Fox logo. Young Patrick seemed a little artificial to me in the first shot, but got better as my eyes adjusted. The theme seemed, I must say, bad, but it grew on me. The credit sequence, shifting from the microscopic view the first two use to the "real" world and back, was cool. The music grew on me. Colossus, baby! Fastball special! The "cocoon" mention, when that was how the real Jean survived while the Phoenix impersonated her in the comics, was cool. The blocks Xavier placed in her mind to keep her powers under control was in line. Mystique refusing to respond to her "slave name" made me smile. Did I call it or did I call it when I mused, weeks before the movie was released, the "more powerful than you" line referred, not to the kid as the trailers implied, but to Magneto? Mystique turning on Magneto was a brilliant trick; but its impetus made no sense, and its resolution was stupid (see below). Beast was brilliant; they could not have made a better choice for him. The various action scenes were done fairly well, with a few things that annoyed me (see below again). When Jean fully adopts the Phoenix personality, she starts wearing the same color that Magneto did many years ago.

The Bad: Oh, God, where do I begin. First, Jean. Young Jean was a bitch. She should not have been a bitch. She should have been terrified. Jean Grey was originally traumatized and withdrew from the world when her best friend died in her arms, and she felt every second of it. She was not a petty little sociopath-in-training with the power to become more. That she would so callously kill Cyclops and Xavier but let Logan kill her is retarded. As is the whole concept of the "alternate personality": Phoenix is not an alternate personality; it is what happens to the best of us when we accrue too much power. Can you imagine begin able to edit matter on the atomic level? That's how much telekinesis Phoenix has. And can you imagine what you would do with it? I thought so. Phoenix is not a metaphor for the id; Phoenix is power, like the Ring. Further, her body "corrupting" when she went all Dark Phoenix-y--who does Rattner think he is? Lucas? Phoenix's casual destruction of the three mutants that had tried to kill Angel's dad was jarring and stupid, even though she's gone batshit. What, just because they're bad guys we can't let 'em get away? Phoenix didn't end any other mutants in that entire sequence; she just evaporated marines.

I'm a little bemused that Multiple Man seemed to be wearing an X-Men uniform. The double-power of Callisto (I think it was) of super speed and the power-sensor was strained credulity, which in a sci-fi action movie's givens does not bode well for your ability to write. (Look for a future rant: things should make sense in your movie.) Alkali or whatever the Prince-a-like-with-tits was named could have been removed entirely and her one scene where she does anything altered to have Magneto do it for her. (See below.) Magneto callously leaving Mystique behind? He would have at least given her a coat or something. Suddenly human or not, she was his right hand for all three movies up to that point. Then, Mystique turns on him--understandable--and gives the government...false information? Durr. Another thing that did not make sense to me was the guy who could regrow his body parts entirely in seconds. That's healing on a level that Wolverine could never match. And that has severe implications on the previous movies...

I love Storm. Storm consistently ranks as one of the three most powerful active X-Men in the comics and by the end of the this movie is the most powerful member of the team. Storm is often portrayed as second only to Cyclops as a field leader of the X-Men in the comics. But Halle Berry is not Storm, and her insistence that Storm's role in the movie be elevated--this after she went and destroyed her career in Catwoman--can be felt from before she even appears on the screen. Yes, when Storm is angry, she can affect the weather to the point of causing storms. Simmering resentment, as shown here, would as most cause localized fog. In addition, Storm is regal and dignified; before Xavier found her, she was worshipped as a goddess by some. Halle Berry can't pull this off no matter how she tries. Lastly, Storm is not as physically dangerous as most other people in the team. She's the equivalent of a high-level mage in D&D--yeah, she's got all the heavy artillery, but close with her and she's fucked. Plus, they overused the eye effect. And Storm doesn't kill people, even when she's angry.

(You can tell this movie was directed by the same idiot who did Rush Hour and the like, because the only people who matter are the main characters. The rest are fodder to be killed, dismembered, incinerated, eck cetera, and this is done by the good guys.)

A great line from the trailer was excised. This confuses me. "You go to war, you might not come home. She might not come home; you ready for that?" This was left out, and "What have I done?" was kept?

Magneto not able to affect plastics? Please. Everything can be affected by a magnetic field. You think a magnetic field that can contain a fusion reaction couldn't hold back a plastic bullet? Hell, in the novel of X2 they note that Magneto was able to stop plastic bullets in midair, precisely because they were in a base constructed mostly of metals. The "plastic prison" only worked because they did everything they could to isolate him from magnetic fields of any sort, and even a tiny amount of material was enough to give him his powers back. The mountain it was buried under was nonferrous; the guards watched their diet; the prison was plastic; and so on. Let me ask you, what was Magneto standing on in that last battle scene? BZZZT. Too late. A BIG FUCKING METAL BRIDGE.

On the subject of that scene... "The pawns go first." Yes, they are expendable. But a smart chess player knows that the pawn is the most useful piece in the game. Notably, the king is less powerful than the pawn, if only because of its distinct vulnerability. You'd think such an avid chess player would know this...

Speaking of which, shame on the screenwriters for making so many allusions to the earlier (better) movies. The scene at the end with Magneto; his line about "Homo sapiens and their guns"...

Lastly, one thing, one single thing took it from "meh, with a side of bad" to "absolute shit". Rogue gives up her powers? Bullshit. Rattner? Would you, along with two screenwriters known to authorities as Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn, meet me at the next paragraph.

Hi. Let me explain something to you, you Three Douchebags. X-Men is about being happy with who you are. X-Men's mutancy started as a metaphor for race and has expanded to include sexual orientation: the point being you cannot choose it; you are born to to it. I like what you did with treating the "cure" as a weapon, as something abominable and to be used only in the most dire circumstances, if at all. Fine and well and good. But then you had Rogue choose to lose her power. This is utterly ridiculous. Yeah, her power's inconvenient, damn inconvenient. Moreso than anyone else, perhaps. But it's always been that way, and it does have its benefits, and she's never stopped trying to gain control over it.

If a fourth movie is made, I hope it comes out that the X-gene suppressant is not permanent. They've had this kid for, what, a month? How do they know that the suppression is permanent, as they claim? Maybe it's like a vaccine, and would have to get renewed every few years...and with Worthington having seen the light and kid probably not wanting to do it anymore, who's going to make new doses?

The Verdict: One word: shit. Okay, two: it stinks. Okay, three: DIE BRETT RATNER.

I was so disgusted I didn't even stay through the credits to see if there were Easter Eggs or listen to the music, and I don't feel regret even now that a review confirmed there was something there.

I felt like someone who had expected more dark Gothic fun after having seen Batman and Returns, and getting Batman Forever. Except worse.

Are you getting the point yet?
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Arkham House Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. :-(
...what you said...
God, what a disappointment. I almost felt like barfing leaving the theater--I actually weish I hadn't seen it... Oh well. Now that this fiasco is done, and the X-movie franchise is dead in the water--if you'll excuse the phrase--Jean will return from her latest "vacation"...
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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good rant
I haven't seen it yet, but i'm sure i'm going to waste a few bucks watching it later on next week...I felt the same way after Superman III, and really FUCKING pissed after the abomination of Superman IV...preach on...
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yep. It sucked as an X-Men movie. And as a film.
X-Men saga aside, it was bad moviemaking.

Bad dialog. Bad characterization. Bad action. Bad costumes. Bad (and confusing) special effects. Bad editing. Bad directing. Bad script.
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DerekG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Just flush it down the memory hole...there are *only* two films.
I've quite easily disregarded "Return of the Jedi" (How is Luke gonna cope with Vader's revelation?) "Alien 3" (Will Ripley, Newt and Hicks make it to Earth?) and "Batman Forever" (After losing Selina, is Wayne gonna go off the deep end?)..."X-Men: The Last Stand" shares the same fate.

If it ain't good, it ain't canon!
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. I still can't even bring myself to WATCH my Godfather III DVD.
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hmmm, well, OK, so...
I've always been more of a DC guy. My Marvel flirtation was more with Spiderman, so I'm not all that familiar with the X Men. I was pleasantly surprised with the first two movies though. I expected major suck-a-tude and instead got fairly decent and entertaining flicks.

So with that in mind, am I gonna like X3? Should I just wait for the DVD?
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Shadowen Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes, wait for the DVD.
And burn it. The original meaning, not the colloquial.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. Rogue and her power...
Recall the previous movies, especially when she wanted to get jiggy. But not even involving those liplock moments, it's clear she never wanted the ability to hurt people.

I can see why she'd choose the cure.

Didn't Batman Forever take place before Batman & Robin (Forever being decent with B&R being a total waste?)

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Shadowen Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. I can see why she'd choose a cure, too.
However, given that mutancy is a metaphor for race and sexual orientation within the X-Men mythos, I was pretty well offended. Offended like I am whenever Rush Limbaugh opens his racist sexist homophobic mouth. The point of X-Men, really, is to be at peace with those things you can't change about yourself, even though they may not be ideal.

Can you imagine, just for the sake of argument...

...if someone made a movie set after the Civil War where some steampunk-style scientist created a "cure" for being black? Like, it turned even a white person who took it into the Aryan archetype? (Though it wouldn't make you more handsome, or more ugly, it would give you "Aryan" features, blue eyes, and blonde hair.)

Now imagine a black protagonist taking this cure and it being applauded as him exercising personal choice. Imagine the response to that.

To paraphrase Bill Hicks, "It's 427 degrees in Harlem, a real scorcher today, Carol, and in DC, gusts of lead are whistling up Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard. I would advise people to stay indoors unless you're wearing SPF 1000000000000 and full body armor."

And don't give me that crap about "well, it's an inconvenient mutation and she just wants to be normal; this isn't like being gay or black". Oh really? Well, I'm sure that gays and non-whites, or whites, for that matter, or any minority group based on genetic predispostion, are never inconvenienced just for being who they are, or that people have never called them abnormal.

The one thing I admired about the cure part of the plot is that the choice is just an illusion; that the choice takes away choice by becoming a weapon. Then, turning it back into not just a temptation, but a viable choice?

Also, Forever was when the candy-coating began. Candy-coating does not belong in a gothic tale.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
8. Oh well, I guess you hated it. I thought it was good fun
Anytime anyone takes a movie like his seriously or as a film worthy of any kind of merit, deserves their own dramaa award.


Suspend your disbelief and go see the fucking movie for a hoot, not for a PhD


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giant_robot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. Very nice rant.
Hollywood loves to make these films because they already have a built-in audience in the comic's fanbase. If they had any sense at all, Rule #1 should be DON'T PISS OFF THE BUILT-IN AUDIENCE!!! No writer or director who's not a fan of the comic should get anywhere near the script. Period.
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Cannikin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Then we wouldnt have Batman Begins. And that was GREAT
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Ravenseye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
12. If you're gonna geek out....
...at least do it right... ;)

"Lastly, Storm is not as physically dangerous as most other people in the team. She's the equivalent of a high-level mage in D&D--yeah, she's got all the heavy artillery, but close with her and she's fucked."

I beg to differ.

Storm defeated Callisto (known for her hand to hand prowess) in a knife battle for leadership of the Morlocks in issue 170. Before she became a 'goddess' she was a street orphan in Cairo where she was a thief and a rogue. She's good with a knife, picking locks, etc.

So she's more like a D&D Rogue. She's not a brawler like Wolverine, no, but she's not some sissy girl in the back hurling lightning bolts. She knows how to throw down.
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Shadowen Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. I'm sorry.
But compared to the people they normally face, or even her own teammates, physically, Storm is a level 1 Wizard with 8 Strength and Constitution. She's in hella good shape, but she's not even Olympic level, let alone superhuman. Cyclops would eat a Navy SEAL's lunch; Wolverine's a goddamn machine; when he goes ice, Iceman is pretty much unkillable; Beast is an acrobat and a champion weightlifter in one...

Now, in the movies, there's less of a physical power scaling level, so I;ll agree with you on that score, but the example you gave was specifically from the comics.

However, Storm is probably #1 or 2 for sheer power on the X-Men's side.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. The "Juggernaut Bitch" line was incredible (spoilers)
You can't tell me that it's not hillarious that the creators of the movie watch the same shit on the internet that we do and then include it in the film.

Hank McCoy was well portrayed, Magneto was more in character than he was in the previous two movies, and while I agree with you about Halle Berry, she did not fuck up her elevated role nearly as much as I thought that she would.

Cyclopse got killed which is great because I can't stand him. Hugh Jackman once again delivered an incredible performance which is 100% acting because in real life he has a high squeaky voice and does musical theatre. Bobby Drake was lame, but he's supposed to be. Kitty Pryde was attractive, and looked like she was about 14 (even though Ellen Page is 19) which was the point, because she ends up taking out Juggernaut. Juggernaut himself was great with the british accent.

As far as the cure goes, we know that it isn't permanent because of the final scene. I agree with you that Rogue completely got the shaft in this movie, but it does demonstrate that mutation is a lot easier for some than others. Also, Rogue will likely play a large role in the Wolverine movie.

As far as Wolverine being able to defeat Phoenix so easily, that was definately setting up the Wolverine movie. While I agree that Phoenix is a lot more powerful in the comics than she was portrayed in the movie, there have to be some limits to make things work in the real world.



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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. Nice rant...you are wrong however...
I though the movie was excellent!
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. I'll second that
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Cannikin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. I loved it. Cant wait until the DVD.
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. long time comix fans
And we loved it (this is laz posting on Haele's account).

Yeah, there were issues. Big issues, chief among them the lack of any explanation of Scott Summers' fate. The lead X-Man dies, and it's not even dealt with?

I would have appreciated more time; rumour has it the studio forced a lot of cuts to squeeze in more showings. Quite possibly the director's cut will be much better, as director's cuts are wont to be. (One example: The whole concept of categorising mutants as level 3, level 5, etc., just got dumped in there. A nice little explanation was probably cut out.)

I do agree that Magneto's treatment of Mystique was off; his respect for Charle Xavier, etc., doesn't gibe with walking away from his right hand like that.

As for Rogue's giving up her powers, I could easily see it given the character we've seen in the films. Never forget, the films are totally different canon from the books. Film Rogue has never been Magneto's lover, has never "become" Ms Marvel or whoever that was (although that'd kick ass for the next film). So I could see her wanting a cure.

The fact that the cure isn't permanent opens some doors, though. Cured mutants could come back more powerful, or with subtle changes in their power (for instance, Rogue could choose to switch off her absorption power).

I'm not a fan of this director. I would like to see the film returned to the hands of the gentleman who did the first two (can't remember right now, too tired to look up).

Things I liked, a lot: Beast was perfect in every way, right down to the fighting style.

Kitty Pryde was incredible.

Vinnie Jones is the man as Juggernaut.

I enjoyed seeing Colossus, but we need even more of him. We also need to see more Angel (he appears to have super strength, eh?). And I'd like to see them explore Iceman more; apparently, he's a Cat 5 mutant now.

Next film, let some old-timers go, bring in some fresh blood, just like the comics. Heck, let's have a New Mutants film franchise, and X-Factor, and X-Calibur. :evilgrin:
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. i thought it was so-so
but then again i've never been a big x-men fan, and did not see the first 2 movies (my friends dragged me to it last night)
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Cannikin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You really would have to see the first two to do the third justice.
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RogueTrooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
21. Right On
:yourock:

I am still trying the articulate my feeling that the movie's treatment of Jean Grey was an anti-feminist metaphor.



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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I found Jean Grey's metaphor was as a form of "control of the inner deity"
Rather than anti-feminist. Jean's issue once the Phoenix was introduced as part of her personality was always about the balance between controlling the overwhelming primal force within her as well as acting as a functioning human being in society.

The Phoenix force was always described in the saga as a truly elemental force; a rage for life and endless renewal. In it's nature, it is amoral and chaotic rather than "logical" or aware of any other state as it will seek any outlet to engage in it's nature.

The movie shows that Xavier and Magneto both tried to control Jean Grey and the Phoenix for their own agendas; the movie attempted - rather poorly because of movie time and scripting constaints - to show the versions of control of a major elemental force that just happened to be embodied in Jean Grey. Xavier attempted to control her by restraining her powers until he felt she could control them. Magneto attempted to control her by encouraging her to discover her own control by indulging in her powers under his "advice".

From the way Xavier and Magneto treated other mutants, I don't think gender would ultimately have had anything to do with the way they each treated her; it just seems that since Clairmont had originally made Jean Grey the Phoenix (instead of, say, the late, rarely-lamented character of "Thunderbird" in the same issues where she originally gained her powers)that there is an anti-feminist bias.

It did an even poorer attempt at showing the Jean's personal conflict between the human and the elemental within her. Because there were no "thought balloons" or narration blocks, the viewer had to guess at why her scripted actions seemed to be so detached from the others and at odds with the storyline.

Personally, I feel that if they were going to go on about the "mutant cure" as a major storyline in the movie, they shouldn't have had the Phoenix/Jean Grey elemental conflict storyline. It became a bit too confusing dealing with standard good guy/villain action drama with a little bit of social commentary along with the emotional "elemental personality conflict" (including the strong sexual overtones) roller-coaster drama.

My main complaint is that this should have been two movies to do justice to both plots; one without Phoenix and one with Phoenix.

Haele
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
24. Something else (HUUUUUGE spoiler)
Edited on Mon May-29-06 02:18 PM by haele
(Laz as Haele one more time, 'cause I can't remember my password right now.)

Did anyone stay until after the incredibly long credits? Luckily, the ticket taker at our theatre told us to.

Remember the ethics class Xavier was teaching? And they Moira McTaggart on with a mindless body, and they discussed the ethics of putting a mind in the body?

After the credits, we're shown the room with Moira caring for the mindless body, when it speaks to her in Xavier's voice. Spooky, and totally cool.

Oh, and I thought those igniters Pyro was using on his wrists (reminiscent of Peter Parker's web slingers in the books) were totally cool and inventive, just the sort of thing Magneto would come up with.
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RogueTrooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-30-06 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Now I wish I had stayed unti the end
the igniters were indeed a nice touch.
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