Have YOU ever thought about -- or tried -- an "Open Marriage"?

[Radio_Lady]

What is your definition of an "open marriage" these days? Is it anything you'd consider for yourself and your significant other or spouse?

How would you re-define "open marriage" in the 21st Century? Does it even have any validity for today's couples?

I'd love to have your comments for a future radio show. I'll never forget the telephone calls that came in to my radio show for the authors of the book "Open Marriage," whom I interviewed more than three decades ago.

Ironically, I searched today for Nena and George O'Neill, and found that Nena just passed away earlier this month. I just learned of it in this New York Times article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/books/25oneill.html



Nena O'Neill, 82, an Author of 'Open Marriage,' Is Dead
By MARGALIT FOX
Nena O'Neill, one half of the husband-and-wife team whose best-selling book "Open Marriage" helped spread the youthful sexual revolution of the 1960's to the middle-aged, middle-class Middle America of the 1970's, died on March 9 in Manhattan. She was 82 and lived on the Upper West Side. The apparent cause was respiratory failure, said her son Michael.

Part anthropological survey, part marriage manual, "Open Marriage: A New Life Style for Couples" caused a sensation in the United States and abroad when it was published in 1972. Written by Ms. O'Neill and her husband, George, the book spent more than 40 weeks on the New York Times best-seller list. Published by M. Evans & Company, "Open Marriage" remains in print in paperback. It has been translated into 14 languages and has sold more than 35 million copies worldwide, according to the company's Web site.

"Open Marriage," as the book's champions said emphatically and often, was never intended to be a guide for swingers. Indeed, the book embraced marriage. Its purpose, the authors wrote, was simply "to strip marriage of its antiquated ideals and romantic tinsel and find ways to make it truly contemporary."

Read today, "Open Marriage" is a period piece, a window onto a distant age of experimentation and abandon. Its ideas can appear shockingly ordinary, even quaint. In the shadow of AIDS, its bolder suggestions seem not so much daring as painfully naïve.

Much of the book's marital counsel was conventional even in its day. "The time to tell your wife she's shooting the budget to pieces with the amount she spends on clothes is not when she comes rushing home full of pleasure with a new purchase," the authors wrote. Trained as anthropologists, the O'Neills devoted other passages to the ethnography of marriage. ("No self-respecting Nama Hottentot owns a jointly held his-and-hers cow.")

MORE AT LINK ABOVE --->

I recall going home to my future husband -- we were just living together at the time. I read some of it to him, enthusiastically.

I said, "Let's try this out, OK?" He said, "I really don't think so!" So, we just did it in the usual way -- a small, old-fashioned Jewish marriage -- my third, his second -- with our five children in attendance -- in February 1973. The rest is HISTORY!

Do you have a story you'd like to share? Post it here -- and please observe the DU rules. Thanks a bunch.

Radio_Lady in Oregon

[LaurenG]

1. I think I would rather just get divorced and then

have an open relationship with whomever I wanted. I don't think my hubby could take it and I know it wouldn't be for me. Besides there is something comforting about knowing that you are special to someone and that they won't bring home a deadly or dread disease that could kill you both.

So no I wouldn't think an open marriage would work for me at this stage of my life.

[Radio_Lady]

5. Excellent point. Mind telling us (about) how old you are?

The onset of AIDS certainly has quelled a lot of the debate. Aging is another factor -- the desire to "sow your wild oats" (anyone say that these days?) simply diminishes with each decade.

But does there seem to be as much "serial monogamy" or "adultery" as there used to be? More? Less?

When I was growing up, in the 40s and 50s, women simply didn't have a choice. Divorce was considered something that "nice" families did not do. My parents and their ilk stayed together "for the children" -- and drowned themselves in drink, affairs, etc.



It really was another world, and I'm curious about this one. Only one of our five children has divorced a spouse, and that one quickly remarried. The first marriage was in 1985 (a stepdaughter) and the last one in 1993 (a daughter). Everybody's together and things seem pretty smooth. At least to us grandparents!

Thanks for your post.

[MountainLaurel]

2. I've considered polyamory

But since my husband wouldn't, and since it's all about mutual consent between all parties, it's off the table.

[Radio_Lady]

7. Do you mean "polyandry" (many husbands) or just a lot of guys

around to take care of your needs?

Come to think of it, I could use a husband who likes to cook.

Another one to rub my back (it hurts today) -- never could get one of my hubbies to do that, so I pay for it! (Regular licensed massage therapists, folks -- nothing even slightly salacious here!)

ON EDIT: I see there's a lot of information I'm not aware of if you put "polyamory" into Google. Learn something new every day -- sometimes a bunch of things.

Let's see ---> http://www.polyamory.org/

(I really like that parrot. Is that supposed to mean you're talking about it -- or does the parrot say the names of all the "amorosos" -- "Hello, John! Hello, Fred! Hello, Agnes! Hello, Gertrude! <SQUAWK>")

[MountainLaurel]

24. Interesting question

I guess I was considering it "multiple committed partners," since if my chosen partner were female we couldn't be married. Also, since I'm married, I couldn't have another husband.

[skygazer]

3. I think the definition is up to the people involved

And that the keys to ANY relationship working are communication and trust.

That said, I spent two years living happily with two men, my husband and a friend of his. It was a very easy situation, everyone knew exactly what it was and was happy with the way it worked. There was no jealousy on the part of either guy, our friend knew that my primary relationship was with my husband but there was a lovely bond of affection between he and I and between he and my husband. Eventually, he met a girl and moved in with her. It was a very nice interlude.

I am very open minded about relationships. I enjoy both women and men and see nothing odd about feeling love or affection for more than one person - we do it with our friends, our family and our children, after all. Some of us are able to do it with our lovers. It has to be something that ALL parties are comfortable with and that all involved know the boundaries of.

I very recently came close to leaving my present boyfriend over a cyber-infidelity issue - the difference there was that it was done behind my back and without my consent. So I don't think it's okay to just willy-nilly leap into anything. It's not like 'Nam. There are rules. (gratuitous Big Lebowski reference)

[Radio_Lady]

9. Skygazer, you sound like a very together person. Someone who

has thought it through and come up with a workable plan.

I can certainly understand the secrecy issue. You're right -- it has to work for all concerned and has to be based on communication and trust.

So -- you talk about your husband and then mention a boyfriend. Something is missing here. Are you still with two people or...? Please explain, and thanks for your post.



OT: I loved the scene in "The Big Lebowski" where the cremated ashes blow back into the actor's face. My husband keeps talking about my ashes and what he wants to do with them. I told him, go up to Alaska and toss them in the Bering Sea. (I love cold water and cold weather.) Better still, find out if you could drop them over the side of Multnomah Falls in Oregon's scenic Columbia Gorge! It's a place I've loved for the past eight years.

[skygazer]

10. Yes, sorry, the time differential

It was a former husband. I was in my early 30's at the time I was living with them both, by the way. We divorced several years later. I now live with one man and one cat. Does that count? ;)

My present boyfriend would be open to that sort of situation as well, I believe, but you can't form a group like that with just anyone. It's hard enough to find one person you can live with - to find two who you can live with and who can live with each other gets exponentially more difficult. We've not found a likely candidate (not that we're actively looking - I find these things just sort of happen, much like monogamous relationships do).

[Radio_Lady]

13. One cat? That leaves me out. I'm allergic!

Yes, I understand. Sometimes I wish I had another "sister wife" here to help me with the chores! And maybe do some of the cooking and dusting. Maybe she could even sleep in the master bedroom (hubby snores, but he's fun for a cuddle on weekend mornings.)

But adding another personality (of either sex) to a union must present formidable problems. My goodness! We had a housekeeper for a few years when we were raising five children. Just dealing with her and her problems -- along with the two adults and five growing children.

It makes my head spin!

OT: Is anyone watching "Big Love" on HBO? My husband is hooked -- Bill Paxton plays a polygamous Mormon in Utah -- and I've tried to watch the first few episodes with my husband. Kind of interesting, but the passions and jealousies -- as well as the situation with the parents -- would have to be an enormous hurdle in real life. I don't think I could hack it. Apparently, neither can some of the Mormons. (See New York Times link...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/28/arts/television/28poly.html?8dpc

[skygazer]

14. That's the thing

People think of it only in relationship to the sex issue when that's really the easiest and the smallest hurdle to handle. In any relationship the day to day mundane issues are the ones that tend to cause the most problems - money matters, the division of labor, child care, values. Add multiple personalities and jealousies to the mix and it gets even more complicated. Compared to all that, sex is easy.

[Radio_Lady]

17. You are one wise woman, Skygazer of California!

It sounds as if you have thought a great deal about this. We are all so complex, and as we try to structure our lives with other people, we run right into THEIR complexities.

Marriage and other relationships seems to be a constant tug between FREEDOM and SECURITY. We want to have an anchor, but we don't want it to turn into a ball and chain, right?

In peace,

Radio_Lady

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

By the way, I love that AVATAR.



My middle name is STARR -- and I love PRISMATIC RAINBOWS. Especially in Oregon and Hawaii!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. i have tried open relationships

mostly it doesnt work

[Radio_Lady]

11. Yes, I understand. As a matter of fact, this is a momentous twenty

year anniversary for me. I had a girlhood crush on a married man fourteen years older than myself which I carried on for years. I was -- what should I say? -- under his spell via exchanged letters and tapes -- and a few times in person -- for decades. This occured mostly -- but not totally -- when I was single or divorced. I told my present spouse that it was completely platonic. But my husband found out about it on 03/31/86, just twenty years ago to the day. I ended up hospitalized and depressed and had to face the fact that I had deceived myself and my mate.

Basically, I had to move out of the house and get psychological help for the obsessive behavior for a number of weeks after the hospitalization ended. Luckily, my husband stood by me and we survived.

I promised never to contact the man again, although I did try to call him once to ask for his forgiveness (which is what the twelve-step programs encouraged), but I never succeeded in uttering the words. He passed away earlier this year. It was a very strange feeling when I heard the news.

[bettyellen]

6. my cousin had one, her husband was hitting on me when i was 15....

he wrote me poems. what an asshole.

[Radio_Lady]

15. Goldie Hawn said it best about her SO, Kurt Russell. "Men are built

to spread their seed around..." or something to that effect. I do believe that is largely true.



I think I married one of the only sweet, straight, almost virginal men in the world (He was married at 23 to one woman for 14 years. She was a virgin at marriage. Regrettably, she died of stomach cancer at the age of 34.)

Before that marriage, I think there were maybe two or three tumbles as a teenager with neighbors in the back seats of cars -- along with the usual amount of "self abuse". ;) I came along a year and a half after the first wife died. It's kind of charming, considering the fact that I had quite a few lovers in the field of TV, radio and film in school and during young adulthood.

[Katherine Brengle]

44. I reject that idea --

that men are somehow hardwired to be promiscuous and women are not.

I think that in the past, this had to be true, prehistorically it only makes sense--population increase was the only way to survive as a species.

But at this point, I believe that the reasons for our sexual behavior are more social training than biology.

[fishwax]

51. i concur

i still see it crop up often as an excuse for males unable to follow through on emotional commitments. But I don't buy the "common sense" that men must fight the tide of genetics in order to be faithful, nor that women are genetic mutants if they seek physical affection outside of emotional constraints ...

[realisticphish]

68. Well

not that I think genetics is an excuse for infidelity, but a few thousand years is HARDLY time for inborn behaviors to be evolved out of our genetic code.

[Bucky]

8. I've known 2 couples (1 gay, 1 straight) try 3-way marriage. Within months

Both relationships hit the skids and fell apart. The straight couple had kids who witnessed this slo-mo degeneration of their parents' marriage. The gay couple was looking to adopt before they found another guy who they wanted to try their little experiment with. If you are in a relationship and looking to spice it up with a little extracurricular activity, let me advise this...

Grow the fuck up. If you consider this, you're probably avoiding other problems. Fix what you got before you try tripling your potential for conflicts.

[Radio_Lady]

19. Bucky, I have to say -- you don't mince words. Thanks for the viewpoint.

Relationships have a way of changing over the years. Sometimes we may yearn for "the road less travelled." What would have happened if we had taken the other fork (that's FORK, folks...)? I guess it's part of human nature.

I dated one very interesting man after another when I was divorced, but they were not mine to keep. There's one I always wonder about... a Miami millionaire who was a fabulous lover. He also owned one of the most beautiful homes I'd ever seen. He had had four children by two wives, and was divorced from their mothers. The first wife raised her three kids with his alimony and support. When the children turned 21, they all changed their names to their stepfather's name. (I never asked him if he gave permission, which I think now he would have to do.)

The youngest child was with his second wife. He wouldn't even call the child by his first name. He called him "THE BOY" and he told me he wanted nothing to do with my children. (I never met any of his children, either.) He once gave me a $500 American Express check and told me to go get my kids some clothes and find a good babysitter. But this millionaire man, who played the piano so beautifully it made me want to cry -- got involved with hashish and was high for a good part of the day, when he wasn't golfing, which was almost every day. Once, he paid for flights for me and my daughter, age 3, to New York City. (He sat alone, I sat in another section with my child.)

I dropped my daughter off with her grandmother, and then accompanied him to one of the most beautiful hotels in New York I'd ever seen -- he maintained an apartment there, as well as an office in another building. We had room service and we walked in Central Park. I broke the heel to my sandals and he took me to I. Miller and paid about $100 for a pair of shoes. We had some glorious dates, but one day, he called me and told me he'd found a single woman, much younger than himself, and he was going to send "Laura" to college. It was over. I heard from him one night when I was on the radio at WIOD. I was Larry King's screener and Larry was arrested a few days before the December holidays. I took over temporarily and was doing a show on sexual fantasy (one of many that I hosted). He called me and started to read some delicious poetry on the air, but he was so stoned I had to cut him off. I often wonder what happened to him...

Are you in a long-term relationship? Or just giving out advice from what you've witnessed? No problem if you take the Fifth Amendment.

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. Larry King got arrested?

Do tell.

[Radio_Lady]

85. Subject: It was a long time ago. I'll PM you the details if that's OK.

However, the day, December 20, 1971, is immortalized on the web at:

http://www.mugshots.com/Celebrity/Larry+King.htm

It's the day I started my radio career. (I had been on TV as a children's show host in the 1950s.)

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. Yes please do

[Radio_Lady]

87. Check your PM for "the scoop" on Larry 'n' me" --

I love to tell people, "I dated Larry King, but didn't marry him." It always stops the conversation.

"And now you know -- the rest of the story."

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[Name removed]

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[flvegan]

12. I wanted to try it, but her husband got pissed at the idea.

Go figure.

[Radio_Lady]

21. Seriously? Just the way you stated it, sounds funny... probably you

didn't mean it that way. I don't know your gender (unless I look at your personal profile or you spread your legs...) so this photo may not be appropriate! What were the circumstances? Inquiring minds want to know...

[flvegan]

39. No, I was being stupid with an attempt at funny...

You know...I wanted to (with her) but her husband wasn't into it...

I don't really believe in the whole "sharing" thing. I'm a one guy - one girl kind of fella. Nothing against those that are into that type of stuff, it's just not for me.

[Radio_Lady]

76. Here's my idea of a hot romance between lovers! (PHOTO)

[SeattleGirl]

16. It's definitely not for me. I'm a one-man woman, and I want a

one-woman man. I don't make judgments on people who life a different lifestyle than me. I think that if an open marriage/relationship, or three-way, or whatever, is what makes a person happy, and the others involved are happy too, who am I to judge. I wouldn't want to be judged for some of the things I like (though I know there are plenty of people out there just chomping at the bit to jump on the judgment bandwagon, and put down anyone and everyone who doesn't live life the "right way" as defined by them).

Now, as far as being open to one's partner in terms of likes, dislikes, heck, communicating about everything, well, that kind of openness I'm all for. In my experience, one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, destroyers of marriages/relationships is bad or little communication. My husband and I had a discussion the other day about something that I wish to hell we had discussed as openly and honestly as we just did. I doubt I would have married him, though he's a great guy. Live and learn, huh?

BTW, I'm 50, as you've been asking people how old they are.

Very interesting topic, Radio-Lady. Is this going to be a topic on your show on Saturday?

[Radio_Lady]

42. No, not on Saturday. My programs are heard on Mondays at 1 PM PT

(To others, you have to adjust for your time zone.)

This program will probably be recorded in April, sometime after I have a minor hand operation on Monday, April 3.

Go to my journal and look at the right column. I'll try to post my guest and topic weekly. Next week, I face the surgeon at 7 AM. The condition is "trigger finger," which I described in my journal, down the page a bit -- diagram, too! I should be back on line the following week after the suture come out. It will take about ten days.

So you're 50 -- part of the Boomers, I guess, born from 1946 to 1964. I would have thought you were younger -- it's the Seattle GIRL that fooled me!

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[SeattleGirl]

48. My bad! I'm sorry. I know you told me when your show was on.

There are so many "have to" listen to shows on my list, and I am adding yours!

I'm a vocational rehab counselor, and work with injured workers. I know about trigger finger; most of my clients who have had the surgery have done well, so I wish you the best on yours.

[Radio_Lady]

74. I have pretty hands, but boy, have they been trouble!

I struggled with carpal tunnel syndrome for 19 years! (Stupid, I guess.) Then in 1985, a doctor in Concord, Massachusetts did both hands a month apart. No problems with those. Since then, three other doctors removal of embedded splinters (twice!) and I can't remember how many trigger finger releases. Last one was my left index/pointer finger 12/2004.

This time, it's the same doctor as 2004, so I know the drill -- it's so routine, he does it under local while I listen to music in my ears.

I am unafraid. UPDATE: Just moved my intake time from Monday 11 AM back to 7 AM. Good! I'll be out by 9 AM with a bulky dressing!

Thanks...... I really should do some more housecleaning, but the heck with it.

Nice to see you on the DU!

[JanMichael]

18. I'm not clever enough to convince my wife that it's a "good" idea.

Plus I don't wish to anyway.

And while there are some people here on DU who endorse the idea my experiance has been limited to three stories of this nature.

None worked for any great length of time and there appeared to be slightly different understandings of the "rules".

One said she always told "him" about her screwing around, I heard him say the same, turns out he was fucking her best friend. Game over.

Another couple brought a bus-stop waif home and both claimed to love her. Turns out the guy wanted the bus-stop girl on different terms. Big fight. Weirdly bus-stop girl left and it turns out chicky sees her on the side without his knowledge.

The last were a couple of "swingers"...That's it, they broke up and she ended hooking up with on of their co-swingers years later, turns out they'd had an "affair" while "swinging".

Gotta be honest...They all have serious emotional problems and self-esteem issues masked by outward bravado.

Nice folks though...Like I said I couldn't convince Stephanie to do it nor would I want to.

[Radio_Lady]

45. You seem to have an open attitude to the idea -- in principle.

But I'd just feel awful about the whole thing.

Guess I've grown up and grown older and still hold the one man-one woman ideal. Just ended up getting infatuated with an older married man who I fancied would divorce his wife. It was my total illusion and didn't work out that way. He was more of a father-figure to me when I met him at 17 -- he was just 31. God, those ages seem so YOUNG to me. I pursued him relentlessly and for years, beyond all reason. But in 1986, I finally got some help to recognize this was really "love addiction" and had to give it up. The fellow passed away at 80 this year -- still with the same gal and for SIXTY YEARS. Had he lived, they would had made it to 61 year anniversary on 8/02/06.

RIP, CDZ. I'm glad we always had the memories of working together in those passionate years. Wish I hadn't been so much of a lure, but I was so young and just didn't handle it like a mature woman, because I wasn't...

[CanuckAmok]

59. There's a great Mariel Hemmingway movie called "Sex Monster".

It's about a guy who, after years of trying, convinces his prudish wife to try a FFM threeway. Of course, she likes it a little more than he wanted her to, and the rest is history... or herstory.

[Radio_Lady]

78. Here it is, and haven't ever seen it!

http://www.us.imdb.com/title/tt0159730/

Plot Summary for
The Sex Monster (1999)
A neurotic L.A. building contractor (Mike Binder in his best Woody Allen imitation) pushes his wife (Mariel Hemingway) into entering into a three way sexual relationship. Unfortunately for him, his wife gets more out of it than he does and becomes a tigress seducing every female she meets including the contractor's secretary.

Sounds like a must-see which we missed.

Thanks so much! Have a great weekend!

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[Radio_Lady]

80. UPDATE: Reserved for Saturday (tonight) at Hollywood Video!

Thanks!

[NNadir]

20. I would never dream of such a thing.

Fidelity is important to me and to my wife.

Every single person I know who had an "open marriage," had their marriage fall apart. 100%. And I know quite a few.

I could not live without my wife.

[LeftyMom]

22. I gave him permission to get around if he let me know first

He managed to violate even that provision and slept with the one girl I pleaded with him to stay away from in our bed while I was at work. I changed the locks on him and sweated bullets until all my tests came back clean. I won't go through that again.

Not that I want to. At this point I have no desire to share, nor to fool around with anybody other than the guy I'm in love with. I'm a convert to monogamy, I guess. :shrug:

[Katherine Brengle]

47. LeftyMom...

You rock. (And what a bastard!)

[LeftyMom]

65. Thank you

He was a world class asshole and I'm thrilled to be rid of him. I deserve better.

I don't really regret the experience though- I woudn't be who I am without it and I'm pretty happy with myself, my life and my present relationship.

[Shine]

25. Personally, I would never be interested in an "open marriage"

in the way I define it: as choosing NOT to be committed to just one person, emotionally, sexually, spiritually...

It's not, in any way, appealing to me. I'm more of a one-on-one kinda gal.

That said, however, to each, their own. People have different definitions of what "open marriage" might mean, afterall. If they can make it work in a way where everybody is happy, who are we to judge?

I've known a few couples who have tried it, but always unsuccessfully. That's just been my personal experience.

IMO, a relationship with ONE person can be complicated enough! :)

[Common Sense Party]

49. Call me old-fashioned: Complete, total fidelity and monogamy,

to a spouse whom I love completely, and we have made what we feel is an eternal commitment to each other, and to the care and upbringing of our children.

I couldn't be happier and I could not feel more free...definitely not by trying these empty, shallow "swinging" lifestyles.

To each their own, I guess.

[Burma Jones]

27. This is why there are prostitutes

Female as well as Male. You want sex outside of marriage, make sure it is only sex.......

Me, I had open relationships with Girlfriends until I got married, at age 36.

[no name no slogan]

28. I think we're talking about two different things

If three people (any combination) are in a loving, committed relationship only with each other, I would hardly call that an "open marriage". That is a helluva lot different from two married people looking for "extra-curricular" activity, each with their own separate person.

I think we need to differentiate between the two.

[bicentennial_baby]

30. i love you

:hug:

[no name no slogan]

33. I'm glad to hear you are all doing so well!!!

and I hope you know me and SS love all three of you very very much! :grouphug:

[Left Is Write]

36. I agree.

When I think of "open marriage", I'm not thinking of a polyamorous relationship. I'm thinking of a two-person marriage in which each partner is free to seek companionship outside of the marriage.

[khashka]

31. Polyamory is the only thing that makes sense to me.

When I was marrred it was three men and one woman.

And I fuck around - I expect everyone I love will too. That's OK just be honest with me....


Khash.

[bicentennial_baby]

32. rock on baby

:hug:

[khashka]

34. She's back!

I know you are in an unconventinaul relelationship. I respect that, it isn't easy.... sometimes its very difficult. It takes a special person.


But we both know this : love does not divide it multiplies! The more you love the more you are capable of loving.

Khash.

[Midlodemocrat]

61. That's interesting to me, because for me, personally

monogamy is the only thing that makes sense. I have little enough time for my husband as it is with work, kids, FIL, volunteering, etc., so trying to meet the needs of another would probably kill me.

[khashka]

70. Hey that's cool

I've never believed that my choices should be anyone else's.

All that matters is if you are happy. And if being faithful to one man and him being faithful to you makes you happy.... I say go for it, girl!

Khash.

[Left Is Write]

35. I would not be interested in an open marriage.

I spent plenty of years being uncommitted and free to do as I pleased. I got married because I wanted to commit myself to just one person. I am not interested in looking for extra-marital activities. If I were interested in exploring other relationships, I would not have gotten married.

Edited to add my age: I am 39.

[Wapsie B]

38. I think it may be something that sounds good as a fantasy

for some, but I don't know if I could handle that or not. It's hard enough to find one true love but then having to share them with someone else?

[Kat45]

40. I read "Open Marriage" in sociology class in the '70s

It was a class about Marriage (and something else, I don't recall if it was family or what). That was a heady time period, a continuation of the '60s vibe, and everything seemed so open and new and full of possibilities and promise. For our final, we had to write an essay on what we saw as the future of marriage. In those times, I'd say most of us saw an unconventional future--and we were somewhat expected to. I had a very straight-laced friend who wrote that marriage would be as traditional marriage always had been. IIRC, she got a C on her essay. Sadly ironic, isn't it?

[politicat]

41. I got my husband through an open relationship....

Polyamory, to be precise.

His ex-wife and my ex-SO were really enthusiastic about the whole concept of polyamory, but he and I, not so much. We kind of went along with it because we couldn't express our objections without sounding jealous or possessive or narrow-minded (the three big sins in the polyamory communities...) Peer pressure can be a terrible thing.

Well, the two exes met at a Meetup, and fell disgustingly in lust with each other for about 3 months... while the future Mr. Pcat and I developed a strong friendship based on a lot of shared qualities. When the hormones ran out and the exes started fighting, the future Mr. P and I became each other's confidantes, because none of our straight friends would understand.

The exes split from each other in a fog of acrid hatred more vile than burning tires, but dammit, I had a friend in the future Mr. Pcat, and we weren't willing to sacrifice our friendship for the sake of our partners - who, it must be admitted, though they never did, had hurt us pretty badly with both their fling and their break-up. About a month went by of worktime email and meeting up for coffee after work, when my ex laid down an ultimatum that I either stop communicating with the future Mr. Pcat entirely, or something was gonna happen. I couldn't justify that, refused, and my ex backed down some, but he was still being quite the jerk, and wanted to try again with another girl he'd met. (To which I swore a blue streak and refused to be involved.)

Well, one thing and another, and some relationship counseling went on, and I discovered that my ex had been occasionally raping me in my sleep, and when I confronted him, he hit me, so I moved out the following week. By coincidence, the future Mr. Pcat's (now ex-) wife decided she wanted a divorce and left him about the same time.

Another couple months went by, the Future Mr. Pcat and I put our lives back together separately and spent a little time together as friends. Neither of us had a car (the exes had them, and Denver public transit is excellent) so we did some emailing and played internet games together a little, AIMed a little, had dinner a couple of times, spent the night platonically at each other's houses (he had laundry machines, but I was closer to downtown) a few times for special events... And we finally realized that we worked really, really, really well together.

We've been together six years, married for four and a half, and I am more in love with him today than I was on the day we married.

[Katherine Brengle]

46. Wow...

if anyone has ever deserved the happiness they have found...

Boo on the bad in the past, and congrats on finding your bliss :).

[fishwax]

53. wow, what a story

thanks for sharing it :hi: I'm so glad you've found happiness! :) :toast:

[madokie]

64. My wife and I had a short fling when I first got out of the navy

she fell in love with me but me being bug nuts from the war and all I knew it wouldn't last so I/we went our separate ways and then 15 or so years later and her having two sons we happen upon each other and have been married for 15+ years now. I consider myself the luckiest person in the whole wide world.

[NNadir]

79. That is a great, compelling story, with a very happy ending.

Congrats on the last marriage.

There is nothing so fine as a friend who becomes a lover.

[Katherine Brengle]

43. Marriage = 1 Man + 1 Woman

Just kidding, lol.

But I don't personally believe that marriages should be "open" in this way. One of the great things about being in a happy, stable marriage is that you no longer have to worry about contracting STDs--one of the major issues most people worry about when they are young/single and playing the field.

Also, I don't think that people should even consider marriage unless they are really ready to love someone else forever--even if the passion wanes, the sparks die out... Marriage is just as much, if not more, about friendship and camaraderie and companionship as it is about physical intimacy and fireworks.

If I were ever to consider this type of arrangement, I would like to think that I would decide to get a divorce rather than defile my marriage... just my two cents.

[Katherine Brengle]

60. Bah! No one liked my joke....

:)

[petronius]

89. Your joke was excellent

But it needed one of these:

http://members.sigecom.net.nyud.net:8090/kevbayer911/marriage.jpg

[Robeson]

50. AIDS did a lot to end that party....

...it made people reevaluate a lot things.

[SeattleGirl]

52. Some parties are better left unattended

And re-evaluating one's life and behaviors can be a good thing.

How you doin', Robeson? :loveya:

[Robeson]

54. Hey SeattleGirl! How's it going?....

...I'll bet you are rolling up the compliments with that new hairstyle...:thumbsup:

[SeattleGirl]

55. Hey, my friend!

Well, I must say that when I went to the supermarket earlier this evening, it seemed I caught the eye of more than one gentleman. :blush:

[Robeson]

56. I loved it. I think it is really you. You look great!

...:yourock:

[SeattleGirl]

58. Oh, thank you, baby!

You are too kind. :loveya:

[Radio_Lady]

62. Backtrack: Link to your photo, SG? I missed the hairstyle!

PS. How's your mom? Better, I hope.



:hi:

[SeattleGirl]

69. Here's the link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x4962240

Mom's still in the hospital. I haven't talked to my sister yet today, so I need to call and get an update from her.

[Radio_Lady]

72. Love the look! Always been partial to RED and BLONDE hair!

Right now, I'm super curly! First perm since about three years ago.

No photos, but I look a little like the gal who substitutes for Keith Olbermann, except her hair is naturally curly, and she about umpteen years younger than me.

Oh, and then there's Melina Kanakaredes -- CSI New York -- so jealous of HER hair! Well, at least I'm a brunette!


Longer hair than this now. "I'm ready for my close-up, Mr. DeMille!"

[CanuckAmok]

57. I was in one.

My experience is that it doesn't work.

If you're going to do a radio show on it, you might want to read "The Ethical Slut", beforehand. It's an interesting, postmodern feminist approach to polygamy and polyandry.

[Radio_Lady]

63. Thanks, Canuck. I'll look for it. Much has been written, and much

more said and done -- since the O'Neills traipsed through my door in 1972.

And, of course, as others pointed out, there's AIDS. When that disease loomed its ugly head, I told the people in my family, "Please don't use me for your template on sexual appetite and appeasement!" I was really worried about all of them, and even had the test myself in 1986 while hospitalized.

However -- if I'm not mistaken -- I think all of my kids had their boy/girlfriends tested for AIDS before marriage. My son, who was baptized a Mormon, also told me he and his future wife were going to be celibate until marriage while they were engaged. Then, later on, they were "sealed" in the Mormon faith -- to be with each other forever and ever and ever.

Certainly is a different era now than it was.

How's it going in the movie business? "Xmen" is coming up shortly and we saw the trailer with the background of Hatley or is it Hadley Castle, where we saw them shooting last year.

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[philosophie_en_rose]

66. Nope. Not for me.

I don't condemn anyone for forming consensual, respectful adult relationships that can thrive in different situations than I would choose.

However, I don't see the point of marrying someone, if I'm still looking for other people.

[Radio_Lady]

73. Are you French, philosophie_en_rose? My father had a mistress,

and my mother knew about it -- eventually. When my father was dying, Mother even invited the woman to come and see him. I always thought that was very French. Do Frenchmen still have mistresses? I have no clue.

My father was not French, but along with his law practice, he also painted, sculpted, and played the violin. Although he never got to see Europe, he always admired the sculptor Rodin. My father fancied himself as an artist and wrote an unpublished play about the sculptress Camille Claudel, who was Rodin's lover and his muse -- as well as a sculptress herself. More about Camille at:

http://www.angelfire.com/goth/poe/camilleclaudel_index.html

There's a lovely photo of Camille, which I've never seen, at that link.

Here is a painting by my father, inspired by a record album cover (Michel LeGrand, "La Femme" from the 1950s).



Au revoir,

Radio_Lady

[philosophie_en_rose]

75. Part French/ British, Mostly Asian though.

And my grandfather had a whole other family that my grandmother only discovered when he died and his second wife came calling for part of the estate! Believe me. I understand the concept of mistresses, and how some people can forgive straying.

I don't want to judge anyone that forgives or condones or participates in that sort of thing, but it would not work for me. I don't think I could forgive it. Cheating is only part of the problem. It's the dishonesty that counts to me.

[NNadir]

83. That was a very interesting post.

Your father executed a decent painting.

I was also interested to learn of Claudel. I was unaware of her work. Thanks.

[Radio_Lady]

88. You're welcome, I'm sure.

[mongo]

67. I think it is generally very compelling for most people

to stray outside their primary relationship.

"open marraige" is such a wide open term, that it is hard to pin down what you mean. The most importanct thing is honesty and communication. Some people are naturally monogomous, others are not.

Personally, I have been in open relationships that have failed, and a somewhat open relationship that is going just fine. It's all a matter of knowing your personal boundries.

I really wish that there was more of a socially acceptable outlet for this, so that young people could figure out their boundaries, and find someone that shares them, before going through multiple marriages

[WritingIsMyReligion]

71. No. No. And no.

I'm only fourteen, so I don't think so much about "conventional" marriage in the first place, but no. Too fucking many diseases out there--the person I marry is not going to be bringing home diseases from other people.

That said, I don't give a damn about what other people do with their lives--so long as they aren't infringing on my rights to do the same. I'm cool with other people being polyamorous, having an open marriage--yes, I know the two are different--, whatever. But I really don't think it's for me. One man/one woman (I'm of questionable sexuality, as in I don't know what I am) would be joyous and difficult enough to handle, without adding other polyamorous partners, or extra-marital sexual shindigs.

:shrug:

:hi:

WIMR

[WilliamPitt]

77. I have had a couple of friends who tried it

and both times, the 'arrangement' exploded into a flaming blaze of madness.

It never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever works. IMHO.

[Sparkly]

81. I think it sounds great in theory

but I think human beings are just too complicated for it to work...

[Redstone]

82. People are so FUCKING complicated that it's hard enough for just two

to stay together. More would, I think, complicate life into a maelstrom.

Of course, I get confused just walking into another room, wondering what the hell I went there to do, so you can't judge by me.

Redstone

[Radio_Lady]

90. Oh -- oh. Redstone, are you having more senior moments than usual?

That happens to me all the time. You can take a mini-mental test to ally your fears. My husband was worried about his memory, but he got all the questions RIGHT. Go figure...

NOTE: Someone else has to administer the test to you. (GO TO THIS LINK IF YOU'RE CURIOUS. THIS IS AN MS WORD DOCUMENT.)

http://nursing.iupui.edu/AcademicPrograms/ASN/docs/a279Folstein.doc