Please save me the "respect the dead" bullshit

[SweetZombieJesus]

I don't hate Bob Hope, but I really don't care that he's dead. I never thought he was funny, and to me he was just another one of those celebrities who had a long career despite having any talent whatsoever. What I really hate about all the news coverage is that this guy doesn't deserve to be eulogized ad nauseaum simply because he was a celebrity, because it takes time away from ACTUAL news stories.

That being said, I'm glad Strom Thurmond died, and I've already stated my moral grounds for hating him time and time again, so I won't go into it again. All I'm asking is that people on this board don't try and moralize to people like me who either don't care that the guy is dead, or are happy when race-baiting monsters like Thurmond finally kick the bucket. We've heard your inane arguments before, and we don't care what Republicans said about Wellstone, it doesn't mean we don't have the right to be relieved that a horrible person like Thurmond is finally dead.

And honestly, who are these comments hurting? The people are DEAD. It's not like they can read our comments from beyond the grave, and even if they could, do you think they'd give a shit?

[orangecoloredapple]

1. I agree for the most part

but he was funny in his and for his times - millions had fun watching his movies. I don't care if he's alive or dead either. Haven't thought about him for many years, and never knew him personally. Just because he was in the movies or on tv doesn't make him a friend of mine.

[SweetZombieJesus]

3. Exactly

I'm sick of people trying to tell me I'm a bad person because I don't pretend to be heartbroken because some celebrity I didn't particularly care for is dead now. I save my sympathies for people who actually do demonstratable good for the world, which I don't believe Hope did, or for people who actually make some sort of artistic achievement that furthers whatever media they work in, which, again, Bob Hope did not. I refuse to pay lip service to someone just because someone thinks they can browbeat me into doing so.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

7. No One's Asking You To Mourn

No one's asking you to be "heartbroken." All people are asking is for a little decorum, and for people who would otherwise prefer to make rude -- and frankly callous -- comments to give it a rest for a bit.

DTH

[SweetZombieJesus]

8. Sorry, but I find it mildly ironic at best that a guy named...

DoveTurnedHawk wants us to exercise "decorum" when talking about a guy who profited off of unnecessary and immoral wars that killed young blacks, latinos, and white kids while further enriching his rich white pals in office.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

10. LOL

Nice, irrelevant distraction. Frankly, you don't know what my username is about, and you probably don't even know what my position is on Iraq, for example.

But anyway, feel free to act however you want. Feel free to make whatever inappropriate, rude and callous comments that you want.

Don't be surprised, however, if people treat you accordingly.

DTH

[Coffee Coyote]

19. whatever the reason for your username

It invites criticism, as does your ill-advised support of a fucking general for president. We have had enough of those clowns in the Oval Office.

I doubt if SZJ cares if you think he is rude or whatnot. Why do you think he basically told you all to get bent with his post?

I am sure you feel better about yourself wagging your finger in his face. Careful it doesn't get bit off.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

26. By Who? You?

Careful it doesn't get bit off.

Please.

DTH

PS: You might want to educate yourself about Clark. You might learn something.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[Skinner]

29. OK, this mini-flame war ends now.

Thank you.

[Sirius_on]

44. Bob Hope didnt start any wars

Nor did he have the power to stop them. He simply lent his time to help take the troops minds off what they are doing. He probably entertained many men that went to there deaths soon after watching him perform. Bob Hope gave troops something to look forward to when they had little to at the time.

I don't see how Bob Hope enriched anyone and he sure didn't politically choose when to perform. Bob didn't care if it was a Dem or Repub that was in office, all he cared for was the troops.

I don't expect you to be sobbing over the mans death, he lived a long life. I just wish people wouldnt start callous threads about not caring about him. If you don't care enugh about him, don't waste your time posting meaningless crap like this.

[boilerbabe]

2. /Bob Hope is Dead

Wow I must dig my head out of yesterday's newspaper!! If the dead can come back and tell us what it's all about, cool, if not...well see ya!! I'll be lucky if I live long enough to see the end of my damn mortgage, and I figure by then, that I will have already read the entire contents of the Norwich Library anyway. So, then...

[Hubert Flottz]

4. Bob was happy

to go to the combat zones and smoke and joke while other people were dying by the score! Bob never fired a shot that I know of, to help the boys defend America!

[catpower2000]

5. I agree...

the man was a pro-war, pro-Vietnam, hawkish conservative Republican. He was LOATHED by anti-war protesters during Vietnam and for years afterward. See Dem Bones Dem Bones' post about this in the LBN thread about Hope dying. There's some nice links in there.

I don't understand why I'm supposed to "respect" this person just because he's dead. I didn't respect Strom Thurmond, the first thing that came out of my mouth when I heard about Strom was "Good!", and even though Hope was not quite as manifestly evil as Strom, he certainly wasn't on the side of peace-loving, liberal folks like us. I can't respect his politics, his character (it's widely known that he cheated on his wife) and his comedy was lame and often sexist. Where in there is anything I'm supposed to respect?

Cat

[skip fox]

6. Intolerance of either side (critical or laudatory),

is not what I think DU is really all about. I mean, hell, if
a lot of people want to be swept away with public sentiment,
thinking that they know a guy, hell, let 'em. Point out that
the public figure might not be who they thought he was, or
that there are other dimensions (and even raising valuable
questions like Does the politics of an artist matter? Which
is a damned interesting question and one I deal with constantly
as a lover of Ezra Pound's work) . . . all this is good. Feeling
sorry that someone has died who gave you some satisfaction
(either on the screen--which I enjoyed when a teenager--or
in terms of what people might feel was high public service)
is also natrual. These may conflict, but they do so usefully only
if we don't shout each other down or take "the high moral ground,"
which is just another way of closing other people out.

[Gringo]

9. People are free to say what they like,

But bashing a dead entertainer, who was not a politician, because he held slightly right-of-center views for an American, only makes the basher, and by extension, DU look petty and hateful IMO.

I wonder if the freepers bashed liberals Katherine Hepburn and Gregory Peck this way?

[NightTrain]

11. I never thought he was funny, either

I always thought that Bob Hope was this big "in" joke that I was never in on.

Actually, I feel the same way about the Marx Brothers, but that's another story.

[elcondor]

38. Whoa, say whatever you want to about Bob Hope . . .

but lay off the Marx Brothers! :-) Heh, just kidding--I understand that just because I find something funny, doesn't mean everyone else will. (Which is the problem many people have with people critisizing Hope post-mortem. They found him funny, therefore he is endearing to them, therefore they feel personally offended when someone insults him. Kind of like I felt personally insulted when Howard Stern made jokes about George Harrison's death the day afterwards--though I didn't know Harrison personally, I still felt like I "knew" him through the joy his music brought me. That being said, I don't know Bob Hope from William Shatner,* so I will take my leave of this thread.) (That was one long parentheses.)

*Star Trek is on in the background, in case you were wondering where he came from! :crazy:

[Coffee Coyote]

12. fuck Bob Hope

He was a pathetic court jester for the GOP. An applause junkie all the way. May his corpse rot quickly.

One thing I've learned in life... is that the dead don't give a flying fig what you think of them. Anyone who tries telling you not to speak ill of the dead is either superstitious or ignorant. Or both.

[Rowdyboy]

13. Not speaking ill of the dead has nothing to do with superstition...

or ignorance. It has to do with class, or a lack thereof.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

15. Amen!

It has to do with class, or a lack thereof.

:thumbsup:

DTH

[Coffee Coyote]

17. total bullshit

My opinion of a dead person doesn't vary from what it was when they were alive. Class my ass.

I despised Hope when he was alive, and I am glad he had the good sense to die. He was a useless old fuck.

You all are proving SZJ's point. I think the only reason for the sanctimony is so you can feel good about yourselves for taking the "moral high ground". What pansified bullshit. I am just being honest with my feelings, which is more than I can say for the likes of the hypocritical "liberal" pussies on this site.

[leanings]

42. Yep,

class, maturity, and a basic understanding of life, loss and death. People that exhibit few of these qualities are hard to take seriously, and are unfortunately far too common on this board.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

14. "Superstitious or Ignorant"

Anyone who tries telling you not to speak ill of the dead is either superstitious or ignorant. Or both.

Barring true monstrosity on the part of the deceased, people who speak ill of the dead (or even worse, people who are apparently thrilled and excited to speak ill of the dead), particularly on the date of death itself, are rude and inconsiderate, and have no place among polite company.

Generally speaking, of course.

DTH

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[DS1]

18. Amen Brother Coyote!

and the meritous occasions are flowing!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

20. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Although I do find your accusation of self-righteousness highly amusing. Regardless, your admission is quite evident to all. Thanks for playing.

DTH

PS: I was opposed to the Iraq invasion. Those things called "facts" sure are inconvenient sometimes, aren't they?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[Paragon]

21. Yeah! SCREW The Golden Rule!!!

<sarcasm>

You know what? I'm gonna dance on YOUR grave when YOU'RE dead -- after all, I didn't know you, you didn't know me. Screw your family and your friends who might be offended -- I don't care what they think!

Now don't go complaining about my attitude towards your demise -- my comments might hurt your family & friends and might fly in the face of common-sense decorum...but other than that, who are these comments hurting? You're DEAD. It's not like you could read these comments from beyond the grave...and even if you could, do you think I'D give a shit?

</sarcasm>

[DS1]

23. Who cares what you think?

is what this really boils down to.

[catpower2000]

24. I wouldn't care if you danced on my grave...

I'll be dead. Plus, I like dancing. :) My family wouldn't care because they don't believe in superstition or religion (the younger members, I mean.) Besides, even if you said mean things about me after I was dead, the people who know and love me would still have the same opinion of me regardless of what you said. So what would it hurt?

Cat

[DoveTurnedHawk]

25. It Would Still Be Hurtful

Besides, even if you said mean things about me after I was dead, the people who know and love me would still have the same opinion of me regardless of what you said.

Perhaps some folks have that tough of an exterior. But please don't tell me it wouldn't be hurtful to your loved ones if people were celebrating your death.

I highly doubt Bob Hope's relatives are reading DU, but the concept remains the same, dating back to the days of gossip in a small community.

Some traditions suck, and sometimes "good manners" can be used as a tool to oppress. I don't think that's the case here, however.

DTH

[Interrobang]

30. Public figures are different.

It would be a completely different ballgame to be discussing Just Anyone's death like this, but for celebrities, the normal rules, I think, don't apply. I still think, as with anyone, that we should keep our oppobrium to relatively civilized levels, but I also don't particularly care that Hope is dead, never found him funny, and don't really understand what all the fuss is about. I imagine that Hope's family would feel the same about me, were I dead.

[SweetZombieJesus]

32. Oooh, you really zinged me there

Why the hell would I care if you did that? The fact of the matter is, I won't be able to care, because I'll be STONE FUCKING DEAD. If there is an afterlife, why the fuck would I be hanging around my grave watching for grave dancers? I would hope I'd have better things to do with my eternity.

As for my family, I don't think they'll have much of a problem with it anyway, as I won't have a grave. I'm having a viking funeral, because I find it patently ridiculous to spend thousands of dollars pumping me full of chemicals and sticking me in a velvet lined box when I'll be fucking dead, for Christ's sake. Just get an old rowboat and burn me and be, drink some beers, tell some stories, and get on with your life.

But hey, if you want to keep trying to browbeat me into accepting YOUR moral compass as my own and follow an outdated, silly tradition that I don't agree with, go right ahead. That's obviously what the mature person would do, try and shame someone into "behaving" the way you want them to.

[skip fox]

22. Never mind,

guess it's some public masturbation ritual I don't understand.

[CBGLuthier]

31. I liked him when he was alive

I don't mourn 100 year olds who die, but I respect his life.

All most of these posts prove to me is something I have known for a long time. A lot of people on DU are childish, inconsiderate spoiled assholes who I would not want to spend 5 minutes with.

[NicoleM]

33. Exactly

I have no opinion about Bob Hope, and I'm certainly not glad he's dead. But I can't get worked up when a centenarian dies. He got an extra quarter century!

[ChemEng]

34. Why are you so full of hate?

No one is twisting your arm to listen to the news. Did your parents never tell you that if you have nothing good to say, to just say nothing?!

To a lot of us, Bob Hope was someone special. He was a guy who gave more of himself than most of us ever will.

RIP, Bob Hope.

[SweetZombieJesus]

35. Once again, people like you are trying to browbeat people like me into..

..sublimating our own feelings in the name of "social decorum".

Fuck social decorum. Trying to shame someone into paying lip service to someone just because they were famous is one small step on the road to the kind of intellectual fascism that begat the "support the troops by kissing Dubya's ass, you treasonous liberal scum" crowd.

No one is twisting your arm to read this thread. I'm allowed to vent my frustration at the one-sided, narrow view being of the man being lauded today. I'm fucking tired of people who lived to be 100 years old being mourned as if they hadn't had more than their fair share of living, and glossing over the deaths of the troops that Hope oh-so selflessly "entertained".

I refuse to pretend to respect someone just because you, self-appointed representative of all of society, says I have to.

[ChemEng]

37. Well, in that case, vent away!

Personally, I despise St. Patrick's day. Who decided that was so important. Screw the Irish! Nobody gives a damn about the snakes, yadda yadda yadda

Oh. by the way, don't complain if you don't like this, its my post.....and I'll say what I want.

[leanings]

43. Nobody pays attention to babies

unless they're screaming.

[jonnyblitz]

36. good post!

LOL...:hi:

[REP]

39. I Feel The Same Way About Katherine Hepburn

An actress with an emotional range from "A to B" (Dorothy Parker) with an annoying voice who carried on a long-term affair with a married man. I'm not glad she's dead - I just don't care!

[SweetZombieJesus]

40. Agreed

Never cared for her. The day she died was fine, but it went on for a fucking WEEK. I realize there are 24 hour news channels that have to fill space, but Jesus Christ, how many times can we see the same clip from Guess Who's Coming To Dinner?

Speaking of that movie, how was that movie "groundbreaking" again? By reinforcing the idea that interracial couples are something to be "shocked" about?

[DemBones DemBones]

41. I just hope Dennis Miller doesn't die anytime soon because it

would be very disappointing to come to DU and read threads about the sorrow people felt at his death and how they always liked his comedy.

Miller is attacking progressives and all Democrats today just as Bob Hope attacked us in the past. I brought up Hope's pro-war, pro-Republican politics to give some balance to the remembrances and inform the younger DUers.

I'm neither sorry nor glad that he's dead -- same for Hepburn, Thurmond. Lester Maddox. I was sorry that Maynard Jackson died because he was "too young" to die, particularly in comparison to Hope and the three I just named, all of whom exceeded normal expectations of life expectancy.

The last time I cried over a celebrity death was December 8, 1980. And I had no illusions that he was a saint, I just loved his work and was shocked at his murder.

[bocadem]

45. I agree with the original post.

n/t