I am religion shopping right now..

[WWW]

I really feel the need to start attending weekly religious services after reading Anne Lamott's book, Blue Shoe. Any suggestions? Especially am looking for posts from lurkers. After the thread the other night, (you know who you are) I know you have something to say and I am very open to any new ideas. And yes, this thread will probably die a very early death, but I thought I would throw it out there anyway.

[nini]

1. Depends on what you want to get out of it...

Are you just looking for prayer situations? organized religion isn't always for everyone- some can pray and get the solace they need on their own.


Do you want to be in a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc.. based religion? Non-denominational? etc..

[WWW]

17. I think I am look for solace as well as insight. n/t

[nini]

25. ........

I'm Catholic. I left the Church for a while and returned a few years ago. The basic beliefs of the Church are mine.. though I don't always agree with the politics. That may be an issue for some folks.


The structure is not for everyone though. If I was you I'd start attending services with people you know and try to narrow things down to a particular belief set. Then shop around for the right match congregation wise. It took me almost a year to find the parish I wanted to belong to when I went back to church. It'll be worth the search to find the right one.

Good Luck

[trogdor]

42. The politics is an issue with me.

No way, no how, should the church be involved in politics. Period. As an article of faith, the church should avoid even the appearance of endorsing any particular political philosophy.

I tried an ELCA church in our area on a recommendation. It wasn't the same (didn't expect it to be, but whatever). They lost me when I found literature for right-wing Conservative Party Congressional candidate Dr. David Walrath (NY, in what used to be the 23rd district) on the table along with the Jesus videos and such.

His platform, which nearly got him the GOP nomination over moderate Republican Sherwood Boehlert, who's been a Congressman since 1981, was a pledge not to expend one single brain cell on independent thought, and vote however Bush proxy Tom DeLay says he should vote.

Gee, and I thought the Reformation was all about (among other things) the RC Church's excessive involvement in politics.

[bloom]

47. What if the religious group

promotes the politics of peace? And is generally left-wing?

What does thou thinkest then?

:)

[nini]

63. I agree. ... which is why I ignore that part of it.

it's the spiritual/teaching side that keeps me there.


The parish I settled on is in a middle to lower class community, very liberal and very peaceful. They do not promote the right wing agenda in any way or the left for that matter. If they did I would move on. What they do teach is are all liberal values in my mind.

When we started bombing Iraq the emphasis at mass was for the Iraqis, our troops and all those hurt by these evil actions. No mention of supporting the resident and all that crap.

Like I said, you have to find the beliefs that suit you the best, then find the right congregation to practice them at.

I wish you the best on this journey.

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. get some holy water

You never know when a vampire is gonna git ya. ;)

[supernova]

3. And a garlic necklace too

:D

[redqueen]

4. Try Buddhism

Not the dogmatic sects, though.

Read the texts (e.g. sutras) ... it's wonderful stuff. :)

[Atman]

18. Try Buddhism Without Beliefs

By Stephen Batchelor.

From the liner notes...

"In this simple but important volume, Stephen Batchelor reminds us taht the Buddha was not a mystic who claimed priviledged, esoteric knowledge of the universe, but a man who challenged us to understand the nature of anguish, let go of its origins, and bring into being a way of life that is available to us all. What the Buddha taught, says Batchelor, is not something to believe in, but something to do...it is a practice we can engage in, regardless of our background or beliefs..."

Worth a look. I don't consider myself religious at all, though this book was great. Also, the woman who made a big splash with her book about Islam just after 9/11, she has a great book about the life of Buddha, which is very interesting. More of a scholarly work than a religious teaching. At the moment I can't find my copy...someone here will know who wrote it. If not, I'll find it and update my post.

[sweetheart]

35. enlightenment awakening

Myself, if you insist on a "name" for my religion, i'll say i'm tantric buddhist, a bit non-dualistic vedanta shiivite hindu.. but those are all just meaningless words for most folks.

I would categorize religion in to 2:

1. Religion with rules (sutra)
2. Religion without rules (tantra)

All religions with rules are like elementary school. You read the book, recite the good verses and meet all the nice people. Eventually you might crave a profound immersion in the divine light... that is tantra.

Religion without rules can't be written, but it CAN be known and taught. All of the world religions were formed by enlightened people who's method of teaching during their lifetimes was tantra... and only years after their death were things made to rules and worshipped.

The former can also be called the "long path" as in you take a long time to become enlightened and die before it happens (it never happens).

The latter is called short path as it is direct... but in order to experience the latter, you need an enlightened person, a real one, no shit. Here is 2 websites of 2 enlightened people:

www.adida.org - name: Adida - Franklin Jones - Da Free John
www.gangaji.org - name: Gangaji - Antoinette Varner

There are others, but these you might meet one day if your hear is sincere in the aspiration you write. You don't "NEED" a teacher, but in this world, unless you are 1 in a billion, likely you do, as you already have a lifetime's of unenlightened conditioning binding you to identify yourself with your thinking mind.

I consider tantra like martial arts... as so much matters the nature of your guide, like in karate kid... a wise and awakened guide can lead you to the profound epiphanys. Most people who say what you say really want to get laid... better to take a yoga class.

If you REALLY want enlightenment, and are ready to give up everything in your life to know it... that is a starting point... sometimes it takes a lotta sutra to get to that point.

My advise is to never settle for religion that does not feel right. That is your enlightened intutition saying to you to find the real thing... its like marrying someone you sorta love 'cuz you gave up on true love.

Buddha means awakened. Bodhisattva, means awakened teacher. In buddhism, there are countless buddha's and bodhisattvas each manifesting in different times and cultures through the jewels of enlightenment... these come in the 3 jewels: sangha (community/support/spiritual tribe), dharma (truth/path-of-awakening) and buddha (teacher/coach/guide/guru/priest/holy friend/lover)

However, all the "knowledge" and thinking is part of sutra...no matter how wise... tantra simply "is". :-)

Namaste,
-sweetheart

[mdmc]

51. Catholic here

that only got back into church by reading the dali lama. the travels of a thousand miles begin with two steps.

[kodi]

5. just don't mistake the menu for the meal

.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

6. Wanna be completely turned off Christianity?

www.landoverbaptist.org

Duckie

[roughsatori]

7. To make a recommendation it would be helpful to know

if you believe in God (some Buddhist sects are non-theist), or Jesus Christ as the Son of God, or Satan, or the Goddess concept. Without any other information I would recommend sitting practice (simple breathing mediation) and you could take it from there.

[AndyTiedye]

33. If, like me, you can't sit still for that long...

...then there is that other form of meditation
that involves a lot of movement,
and loud electronic music
and a smorgisbord of spirituality
any weekend in a warehouse near you.
(commonly known as a rave).

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. What kind of religion you looking for?

And what kind of religious experience? That is, Christian, jew, Muslim, Bahai, Wiccan?

and then from there, go into: Organized vs. not organized, big group vs. small group, community-centered vs. individual-centered? Spiritual-journey-centered or mission-in-the-world-centered? Reclusive vs. in-the-world?

If you tell us, we can begin to help you out more. Tossing out stuff about "religion" is tough - narrow it down a bit, please. :-)

[WWW]

19. I just want to grow spirtually

it doesn't matter about organized or size

[smirkymonkey]

62. I read Ralph Waldo Emerson when

I need to connect to a higher mind (not his, the universe). He really soothes my spirit and provides inspiration and comfort in his writings.

[mlawson]

9. Some types of Buddhists say, "When YOU are ready,

the right 'guide' will come along." I don't think you can hurry the process along.

[mdmc]

53. yup yup

my exp. too.

[Atman]

10. Why?

I don't know Anne Lamott, or the arguments she puts forth in Blue Shoe.

Why are you shopping for a religion? Are you lost? Can you not decide between right and wrong on your own, without the threat of smiting, or divine vengence?

If you need to "shop," I think it is already too late.

I speak from experience. After the birth of our first born, my wife and I felt it important to begin attending services. We asked some locals to recommend a nice church, and wound up at a basic Church O' God. We had the pastor over for tea several time to discuss theology. We explained our skepticism and desire to re-discover what we'd lost.

It lasted less than a year. The more I attended church, the more convinced I was that it was simply the wrong place for me. IMO, sorry in advance for offending, but organized religion is just a business like any other. A very lucrative business with all sorts of special tax provisions that us non-believers don't get. Seems to me that God wouldn't need a special tax break. Doesn't that seem odd to you? And why are the biggest, most elaborate buildings in town always churches? Don't they have to pay to heat them, light them al that stuff? Lots of money. And what about the Catholics church paying out hundreds of million of dollars to molested boys...where did that money come from and why did the church have it laying around, instead of in the community helping people?

Because it is a business.

And George W. Bush discovered this just before his latest stint as the televangelist president...declare yourself a religion, give yourself tax breaks, make government "faith based" then be there to soak up all that new government "faith" money. Tax free of course.

It's only business.

If you need something in which to believe, why does a tax-free floating ghost who determines your destiny make any sense? Just curious. Maybe I need to read Anne Lamott.

[James T. Kirk]

11. I think you should check out Catholicism!

http://www.catholic.com/library/How_to_Become_a_Catholic.asp

It's not easy, but I think it's totally worth it.

O8)

[supernova]

12. If you enjoy Anne Lamott

you might as well give our denomination a go:

Presbyterian Church, USA. :D

[WWW]

13. Well in the book, Lamott's main charactor

seemed to make so much more sense of her world after attending mass each week. (Lamott was voted the best of the net for her writings on Salon.com) I am a catholic and I could start going back to mass, but then the Universalists in town really seem to have it togehter and I am thinking of going to their service this Sunday.

[Rabrrrrrr]

16. So you're thinking of Christianity when you say "Religious"?

I can't remember what church Lamott ended up attending, but her story of finding church is quite wonderful. Can't remember the book it was in, but I assume it was Traveling Mercies. I'm thinking she ended up at an Episcopal Church, but don't quote me on that.

I love her writing. I haven't read her new one yet, though it's on my shelf. I just finished Joe Jones (I think that's the name) that was just reprinted.

Also love her Bird by Bird, her book on writing.

(and I might have screwed up every book title in this post)

[supernova]

26. Traveling Mercies was about A L

winding up in a SoCal Presby Church.

There was a very nice article on her in our mag Presbyterians Today about a year ago.

[Rabrrrrrr]

32. Thanks! Presbyterian would have been one of my last choices

for the church she'd end up at. :-)

thanks!

That helps explain the previous poster's mention of Presbyterian church.

[James T. Kirk]

37. different Catholic churches

If your closest Catholic church is not so good, there is probably another one just a few miles away that will be better.

Find churches:

www.masstimes.org

O8)

[roguevalley]

14. Try reading Jesus the Heretic by Douglas Lockhart (Element Press)

It will liberate your feelings, if you are Christian,
in a way that could never be thought possible. I spent
a lifetime wondering why I couldn't buy the idea that
for a period of three years the laws of the universe
suspended themselves for what the Church ladles out as
the life and mission of Jesus.

Freedom, my friend. That is what this book gave me.
Freedom from dogma, redneck damnation and stupidity.

Good luck in your search.

RV

[MissMarple]

15. It depends, in most part, on what kind of dogma you lean toward.

Christian, Islam, Neo Pagan, etc....

Also, individual congregations can be different. You might want to look for a service attended by folks you have things in common with. The Society of Friends are good, the Unitarian Universalists can be, the Church of Christ, the Congregationalists, and I understand the Disciples of Christ can be Christian choices to explore. I have always liked the Catholic Latin Mass, maybe it's the incense, and I don't do much dogma and haven't been in years except for weddings and funerals. I'm not Catholic.

You can find area meetings by doing a search, many groups have web sights that have an area search function so you can find a group near you. Check witchvox.com for neopagans. :D I haven't checked them out lately, but they're OK.

Good luck. You are trying to get in touch with the Divine, and that is an individual thing.

[UnityDem]

20. If you are an all inclusive type

www.unity.org

[WWW]

21. thanks so much great site n/t

[Dissenting_Prole]

22. Try Universalism

Find a Universalist church for a sampling of world religions and beliefs. Universalists are fairly open-minded and tolerant.

[HereSince1628]

23. Go with a fertility cult.

[Mass_Liberal]

24. my advice to you

is....choose one that allows all kinds of food. Food is yum.

[WWW]

27. see my problem was 9/11

We went to church the sunday after 9/11 feeling very fragile. The priest stood up and to paraphrase "I am not going to say anthing more about 9/11 because I already said it Wednesday."
Hey, we weren't here on Wednesday! That was it. I was truly blown away. It was a packed house and we were all aghast. We sang God Bless America, which was very emotionaly, but I had the kids with me and I truly expected something more.

[Demeter]

28. When I was Living In The Land of the John Birch Society...

which was founded in New Hampshire, I found that the Unitarian Universalists provided a home for the local NOW group. I also found that the UU's were less a church and more a debating society, with no orthodoxy, but basic principles of Search for your own truth, Respect that of others, Guard the Ecosystem, and various other very high-minded concepts that they actually support, try to live up to, and furthermore....they don't proselytize! No missionaries, no Bibles to the Third World, no Us versus Them.

There are Jewish UUs, Catholic UUs (recovering, they usually say), Bhuddist UUs, atheist, agnostic, pagan, wiccan, usually all in the same church, sometimes several in one person.

The whole movement dates back to the 1500's. There have been proponents burned at the stake. Poland was the first country to have a UU head of state, Transylvania is one of the birthplaces, Spain is another. The UUs were our Founding Fathers and Mothers in this country, the prevailing mood of the nation during the Enlightenment and the Revolution.

UU Jokes:
Given a choice, most Unitarian Universalists would rather attend a discussion of Heaven than actually go there.

To terrorize the new UU family that moved in, the posse put a burning question mark on their front lawn.

So it's lame. Some of the most spiritual people I've met are UUs. And some of the most practical. And some are both.

[WWW]

29. Hey, that was great. Thanks so much n/t

[supernova]

30. Anne Lamott's Subversive Faith

Here's the article from June 2002 Presbyterians Today.

"Muddling through" is familiar territory for Lamott, a popular speaker and best-selling author. The essays in her nonfiction books are built around stories and spiritual insights culled from her chaotic life. "You start out where you are," she explains, "and then a problem arises — the car breaks down, the cat gets sick. Then there's my effort to solve the problem through what I call 'my best thinking' " — which generally does not work. Finally, she says, "there's the moment when you get a tiny bit of light — and it's enough."

More...

http://www.pcusa.org/today/cover/june02/cover.htm

[Cheswick2.0]

55. I was not aware of this person...thank you

Muddling through" is familiar territory for Lamott, a popular speaker and best-selling author. The essays in her nonfiction books are built around stories and spiritual insights culled from her chaotic life. "You start out where you are," she explains, "and then a problem arises — the car breaks down, the cat gets sick. Then there's my effort to solve the problem through what I call 'my best thinking' " — which generally does not work. Finally, she says, "there's the moment when you get a tiny bit of light — and it's enough."
Lamott, who describes herself as a "left-wing hippie type," does not shy away from using an obscenity in her writing when it seems appropriate to the situation. But she chooses evangelical terms like "born again" to recount her harrowing journey from alcoholism to salvation. "I don't know much," she says, "but I understand how entirely doomed I am without God." Having grown up "in a family that was totally anti-Presbyterian," she declares, "I will go to my grave not understanding why I, of all people, ended up being such a committed Christian, let alone a Presbyterian."

I read the article and will buy her book to read. She sounds a bit like me. I never had the drug or alcohol addiction but I certainly had other problems which were distroying me.

[Dissenting_Prole]

31. Use the Belief-O-Matic

"Even if YOU don't know what faith you are, Belief-O-Matic™ knows. Answer 20 questions about your concept of God, the afterlife, human nature, and more, and Belief-O-Matic™ will tell you what religion (if any) you practice...or ought to consider practicing. "

http://www.beliefnet.org/story/76/story_7665_1.html

[Liberator_Rev]

77. Very good advice, D P. You stole my thunder !

[ikojo]

34. Why not Judaism?

Takes awhile to convert but well worth it....

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

36. Try Universal Worship

if there's one in your area. At this service, the holy books of the world's traditions are all read and honored (or a song is chanted, as for Native Americans). The Sufi Order International promotes this service, as we believe that all paths lead to God. I hope that the brief introductions given in the Service will help you decide which is your path.

[whirlygigspin]

38. give Sufism a whirl

ahem

[supernova]

45. LOL! I wondered where your moniker

came from.

The more I think about it and learn about different versions of Islam the more I think that if I weren't xtian, I'd be Sufi. :D

[Sufi Marmot]

68. Is there a reason you can't be both?

Per my (admittedly incomplete) understanding, sufism is supposed to transcend dogma...

-SM

[Dogmudgeon]

39. Get your Ethics in, maintain ARC, and fly some RUDS

The Church of Scientology Is Here To Rescue You.

And pay no attention to those sinners at Operation Clambake. They're SPs (Suppressive Persons), every one of them!

--bkl

[elcondor]

40. I was once religion shopping

Visit all the houses of worship you can, read all the books you can, and talk to all the people you can--even if you are sure you wouldn't ba interested in a particular faith, you will gain something from it all the same. I bounced around a lot before I found Judaism--the only thing I knew starting out was that I was not a Christian. If you haven't already, figure out your exact beliefs first before you go looking for a religion. Unless you give a more specific idea of what your beliefs are, I can't recommend a starting place.

[noonwitch]

41. Annie Lamott spoke at my church's women's conference last year

I haven't read her books, and I didn't attend because it was my sister's due date, but my church had a big women's conference with Annie Lamott, Oprah, and Riane Eisler ("The Chalice and the Blade")as the main speakers.
My church is in Warren, Michigan, called Renaissance Unity. It's part of the Unity denomination, which is a new-age church that is interfaith in nature, but uses christian terminology. My individual church has a tradition in the community of hosting virtually every 12 step program there is at some point in the week, so a lot of the members are people who are in various stages of recovery.
I grew up attending the United Church of Christ, and joined it as a teenager. It is a good liberal denomination, with no hangups about gays and a multi-cultural view of the world. Their international organization does a lot of good things around the world.
When I was looking for a church originally in Detroit, I used to attend the UU church downtown. I found it kind of boring at the time, but they were a consistently liberal church, that was open to just about anybody's backround. The people there were all very nice, and they had a pagan group that met there. I just found it really annoying when they took traditional christian hymns and changed the words to match the transcendentalist backround of their denomination, in very similar words to Emerson and Thoreau. The church is a really cool building, though.

[maxanne]

43. I'm on my way

to becoming a UU. We have a small congregation here, where I am welcomed with open arms - as are all people. There is an active Social Concerns Committee (which I am a member of) that partners with the organization I work for in doing some good grassroots work in the community. We put together a forum on the Patriot Act in July that drew 150 people in small town NH. Not bad. Next week we have a discussion about homelessness and housing in our county. I think of UU as spiritualism with a social conscience. I don't believe in the male patriarchal God concept - and have issues with the way that Christianity is used and taught. I don't believe (as so many major religions put forth) that because I am female, I am inferior.

I went to a service right after the war began in Iraq, and it was amazingly comforting. UU's tend to be independent thinkers - and take time to analyze issues. They also work hard to facilitate social change.

All that works real well for me. I have issues with churches that are exclusive of certain populations. I was at a funeral recently where it was made clear that if you weren't part of their congregation, you weren't worth spit. Screw that.

Good luck with the search WWW.

[moroni]

44. Though this is an old thread, I will still answer as best I can.

If you consider yourself a Christian and faithfully believe in the Bible as it is translated, then consider this. I am definitely a lurker here. I come to learn what others believe or say they do.
I have checked some of the references listed below.

I would certainly ask close friends and relatives questions concerning their beliefs. I would think that most denominations have websites as well. I recommend prayer and lots of it. Good luck!


42 Evidences of the True Church
This list is from a book called The Greatest Quest by Blaine and Brenton Yorgason. This novel describes the search by five college students to find the one true Church. At the end of this book, the authors combined their research with the work of Henry Whiffen who also developed a list. Together these gave a total of 42 points. In this list each point has been documented with scriptural references.

1. The Godhead consists of three separate and distinct beings - God the Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.
1. Genesis 1:26-27;3:22
2. Matthew 3:17; 28:19
3. Luke 3:22
4. Acts 7:55
5. 1 John 5:7
2. God the Father, as well as his Son Jesus Christ, who is a resurrected personage, both have bodies of flesh and bone and spirit
1. Genesis 32:30
2. Exodus 33:23
3. Luke 24:39, 41-43
4. John 20:17; 21:13-14
5. Acts 7:55-56
6. 1 John 3:2
3. Jesus is the Christ, the literal Son of God, the Messiah, and the only perfect person upon the earth - and not simply a great teacher.
1. Luke 9:35
2. John 17:4-5
3. Hebrews 1:6-7
4. Jesus Christ, as revealed in the New Testament, is Jehovah, God of the Old Testament.
1. Exodus 3:14
2. John 8:58
3. Isaiah 43:11
4. Hosea 13:4
5. The Holy Ghost is a distinct personage of spirit and is the third member of the Godhead.
1. Matthew 3:15-17
2. John 14:26; 16:13-14; 20:21-22
3. Ephesians 1:17
6. The Holy Bible is the word of the Lord insofar as it is translated correctly. It is the record of the Jews and will be joined with another record in the last days to relate God's word to his people. This second record will come from a descendant of Joseph.
1. Ezekiel 37:15-17
2. Isaiah 29:18
3. Revelation 20:12-14
7. Jesus Christ is recognized as the head of his Church, with other officers named, beginning with a foundation of apostles and prophets, and including teachers, saints, elders, evangelists, bishops, deacons, priests and high priests.
1. John 15:16
2. Mark 3:14-15
3. Ephesians 2:19-20; 4:11-14
8. Officers in Christ's church will be "called of God." They will receive their authority through the "laying of hands." One cannot call himself to the ministry,
a. College degree or license insufficient
b. Royal priesthood will be known as such.
c. Bishops and leaders are to marry and to have children
1. Acts 19:25
2. Hebrews 5:4, 10
3. Timothy 3:2; 4:2-3
4. 1 Peter 2:9
9. Members of Christ's church will be "workers," and will be called "saints." In addition, women will be included in activities and leadership.
1. Proverbs 12:4
2. Romans 1:7
3. Ephesians 4:12
4. 1 Corinthians 11:7
5. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
10. There will exist within the church separate entities for each of the groups of members. Adult and youth organizations will exist. This point stands to reason, if Christ is concerned with helping each individual from that person's own level of understanding.
1. Ephesians 4:11-14
11. Christ's church will believe in the "virgin birth" of Jesus Christ but will not believe in the "immaculate conception" of Mary.
1. Isaiah 7:14
2. Matthew 1:19-20, 23
3. Luke 1:26-31, 42
12. Christ's church will believe in immortality or eternal life, and in a heaven and hell. After the resurrection, we will be assigned to different places according to the judgment. The first resurrection will be for the righteous and will commence 1,000 years before the second resurrection.
1. John 3:16-17; 5:28-29; 14:2
2. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22; 40-42
3. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
13. The Savior's church will honor Sunday as the Sabbath, with the understanding that the resurrection transpired Sunday morning, the first day of the week - and thus replaced Saturday as the Sabbath.
1. Hosea 2:11
2. Matthew 28:1
3. John 5:18
4. Acts 20:7
5. 1 Corinthians 16:2
14. Officers as well as members of Christ's church will receive continuous revelation from God.
1. Amos 3:7
2. Matthew 16:13. 16-19
3. Ephesians 1:17
15.Members of the Lord's church will be payers of tithes and offerings.
1. Malachi 3:8, 11
2. Luke 11:42 Hebrews 7:4-5
16. Members of the church will regularly partake of the Lord's Supper. This sacrament represents the flesh and blood of Christ and is partaken of in remembrance of him.
1. Matthew 26:26-28
2. Acts 20:7
3. 1 Corinthians 16:1-2
17. Members of the Lord's church will experience miracles, such as visions, tongues and prophesies. In addition, the church will practice divine healing. When members of the church are sick, elders of the church will anoint them with oil and heal them.
1. Matthew 9:18
2. Mark 6: 5; 16:17-18
3. Acts 5:12, 16
4. James 5:14-15
18. Church leaders will teach that the resurrected Jesus Christ will come again to the earth in the last days. This "second coming" will be greatly anticipated.
1. Job 19:25-26
2. Matthew 24:30
3. Acts 1:11; 3:19-21
19. Members of the Lord's church will be persecuted for their beliefs.
1. Matthew 5:10-12; 24:9
2. Luke 6:22-23
3. Acts 8:1-3; 28:22
4. Hebrews 11:36-38
20. The church as a whole, as well as its members, will be recognized for their "fruits" - as well as the prophets who lead them. The church will esteem honesty, virtue, and wholesome activity.
1. Proverbs 15:4
2. Luke 6:43-44
3. 2 Corinthians 9:10
4. Philippians 4:17
5. Hebrews 13:18
21. The church must provide salvation for all of God's children, not just those who receive the gospel while living on the earth. It will practice baptism for the dead.
1. Mark 16:16
2. John 3:1-8
3. 1 Corinthians 15:29
22. The church will build temples similar to the one Solomon built, which was destroyed and built again at the time of Christ. These temples will have unique purposes, including baptism and other ordinances. Temples will also be holy places, contain the Holy of Hollies, and be used by members as places of worship.
1. Isaiah 2:3
2. Malachi 3:1; 3:7
23. Christ's original church was organized by him and named after him, and his church today will also be named after him.
1. Acts 4:10-12
2. Ephesians 1:22; 4:11-14; 5:23-24
24. Specific authority to function in the administration of the church is called "priesthood." It is obtained through ordination by one having the power to so ordain.
1. 1 Samuel 13:9-14
2. Mark 6:7
3. John 7:16; 20:21
4. Acts 19:2-5
5. Hebrews 5:4-6,8-20
25. A higher priesthood authority is required to bestow the Holy Ghost than to baptize.
1. Matthew 16:19
2. Mark 1:7-8
3. Acts 8:15-18; 19:2-6
26. The church that Christ originally organized did not baptize infants since the prerequisite for baptism was (1) a capacity for repentance of past personal sins, and (2) a personal belief in the divinity and teachings of Christ.
1. Mark 10:14-15; 16:16
2. Acts 2:38; 8:12
27. The church is to send out missionaries (in twos), to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
1. Mark 6:7
2. Luke 10:1
28. The church will have a welfare system to provide for the poor and the needy within the church. Members are to provide for themselves and their family first, and then receive help from the church
1. Deuteronomy 15:11
2. Psalm 9:18
3. Isaiah 14:30
4. Mark 10:21
5. Luke 18:22 Romans 15:26
29. The church will have a law of health. Alcoholic beverages will not be used by members of the church.
1. Ephesians 5:18
2. 1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:9-10
30. The church will be one that is restored to the earth. Christ's original church experienced a great apostasy or falling away, but his church will be returned or restored again in the last days.
1. Jeremiah 31:31-34
2. Acts 3:19-21
3. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-13
4. Revelation 14:6-7
31. Christ's church will believe in being saved by the grace of Christ through exercising faith in him. In other words, it will teach that when we repent of our sins and forsake them, the atonement of Christ will cleanse us of our sins.
1. Matthew 7:21-29
2. Mark 16:15-16
3. Luke 6:46-49
4. 1 Timothy 4:10
5. James 1:22-25; 2:14-26
32. The church will preach only the true gospel of Christ, with no variations. It will neither add to the meaning of Christ's teachings nor take away from them - even though current revelation will provide insight into them.
1. Matthew 5:19
2. Galatians 1:6-9
3. Ephesians 4:5
4. Hebrews 13:8-9
33. Christ's church will espouse a pre-earth life, or a preexistence, such as that taught by the Orthodox Jews. Included in this teaching will be the doctrine of foreordination and not predestination. God the Father will be recognized as having created the individual spirits of all people.
1. Genesis 1:26-31
2. Job 38:4-7
3. Ecclesiastes 12:7
4. John 17:5
5. Ephesians 1:4-5
6. Hebrews 12:9
34. The church will believe in the "original sin" of Adam. Nevertheless, it will teach that Christ atoned for Adam's sin and that we will be punished for our own sins, as Adams sin has already been atoned for.
1. John 1:29
2. Acts 24:14-15
3. Romans 5:6-19
4. 1 Corinthians 15:21-23
35. Christ's church will teach that the gathering of Israel, in the last days, will be literal.
1. Isaiah 5:26-30; 11:12-13; 35
2. Jeremiah 3:14-18; 31:10
36. Members of the true church will respect the beliefs others and allow all people to worship as they choose.
1. Galatians 5:22-26; 6:1-2 2.2
2. Thessalonians 1:7-10
37. The church will be subject to the laws of the land, regardless of the type of government in power in that land - thus rendering unto Caesar that which is his, and to God that which is his.
1. Matthew 22:21
2. Mark 12:17
3. Luke 20:25
38. It should be recognized that while perfection is to be sought by each member of Christ's church, the members will have human failings and will make mistakes, and that they will thus need to grow and learn - line upon line, precept upon precept.
1. Isaiah 28:10
2. Ephesians 4:11-14; 28,32
39. After repentance, baptism by immersion is essential, as is receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. A person performing these ordinances of baptism and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost must be duly authorized to perform such ordinances.
1. Matthew 3:13-15
2. John 3:5
3. Acts 2:38,41; 22:16
4. Romans 6:5-6
40. The Savior's church will have an unpaid ministry. This unpaid ministry will be called "by revelation," even as the apostles called new members to their quorum following the resurrection of Christ.
1. Amos 3:7
2. Micah 3:11
3. John 10:13
4. Acts 1:22-26
5. 1 Corinthians 9:18
6. 1 Peter 5:2
41. Satan is a real spirit being and not a fragment of people's imagination.
1. Job 1:6
2. Matthew 4:10
3. Mark 1:13; 8:33
4. Luke 13:16; 22:3, 31
5. John 13:27
6. Acts 26:18
42. The Holy Ghost will bear witness to the truthfulness of the Savior's plan, when it is presented. This is the one sure way of knowing which, if any, of the churches belongs to the Savior.
1. John 16:13-14
2. 1 Corinthians 12:4-12
3. Galatians 5:22-26
4. Ephesians 1:17

[supernova]

46. Boy, that's an impressive list

of references. I'm just not quite sure what your point is? :shrug:

[HereSince1628]

50. Nothing from the Pearl of Great Price?

This list is about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints...the mormons.

It would have been OK to say so.

[LynneSin]

48. You might want to try Matcomism

Alluring isn't it!!!!

[Az]

49. If there is no specific dogma you are seeking

Then I suggest a church that doesn't have a dogma to cram down your throat. The Unitarian Universalists are a church without a dogma. May be just the thing you need. They provide a connectivity to your fellow human that you may be lacking right now. Give them a try you may find a new family in them.

[truthspeaker]

52. don't do it!

It's like drugs, there are people who can do it recreationally and stil lead productive lives, but you're really better off not starting.

Seriously. Volunteer once a week instead. You will feel great about yourself and actually help some people.

[brainshrub]

54. If you're going to be Christian, you may as well choose Catholic.

Go with the original!

[pdx_prog]

56. New Thought

I became involved with New Thought a few years back. It is wonderful....It is basically metaphysical Christianity based on "A Course In Miracles". It combines Christianity with the thought beliefs of all of the worlds religions. I attend the Living Enrichment Center here in Portland.

www.lecworld.org

[pdx_prog]

57. Frisbeetarian

They believe that when you die your soul goes up on the roof of your house and stays there...:)

[WWW]

75. That's It! That's the one I have been searching my whole life for! n/t

[Devoir]

58. Go to the original Church founded by Jesus....the Catholic Church

All the Protestant denominations split from us. Only the Catholic Church has an unbroken line of leaders since St. Peter, the Apostle.
Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism
As for Islam, your religion was started by a man. Same with Buddhism and all the rest
My advice for anyone wanting to start their own church: you are allowed to do it ONLY if you demonstrate the ability to die on a cross and three days later, rise from the dead. If you can do that, then you have the authority to start a religion. So far, only Jesus has done that.

[truthspeaker]

60. Dogmatic much?

You're free to believe that Jesus really did die and come back to life. You are also free to believe that the Catholic church is the only rightful heir of his message, and that the original Catholic leaders did nothing to change the message and did not choose scriptures for the canon that would help cement their authority. But it's a little arrogant to reject everyone else's beliefs out of hand. You say all other religions were made up by men. Guess what, so was yours, at the Council of Nicea among other places. You believe they were inspired by your God when they did so. Muslims believe Mohammed and the authors of the hadiths were inspired by Allah; Mormons believe Joseph Smith was inspired by God; the Native North Americans believe their traditions come from the Great Spirit. To an outside observer there is no way to separate these claims. Maybe one is right and all the rest are wrong. Maybe all of them contain varying degrees of divine truth. Maybe they are all wrong and there is no divine to connect with. I strongly suspect that latter, but I am willing to admit I might be wrong, and I respect the right of everybody to have their own religious beliefs. Do you?

[Devoir]

64. Thread originator asked for suggestions

And I supplied one and provided reasons I think Catholicism is the way to go, which included tracing to Church back to the Son of God, who was not a mere mortal, as were founders of all the other faiths. Why do you seem to think I should try to make the cases equally for other religions? If you believe Toyotas are far and away the best car, and a friend asked which one you thought he should buy, would you try to make the case for Honda, Chevy, Ford, or Chrysler? The poster did not ask me to expound on the right of everyone to have their own religious views or to give the PC 'tolerant' view of Islam and the other religions. Please pay attention to the subject of a thread before you post. Thanks.

[supernova]

66. Slight quibble

Jesus did not found the Catholic church. Historically, some say Peter did.

Jesus lived and died as a Jew.

[Devoir]

74. Jesus authorized St. Peter

Jesus said 'upon this rock (referring to Peter) I establish my church'

[James T. Kirk]

76. Catholic view of the foundation

When Jesus went into the region of Caeserea Phillippi he asked the disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

– Matthew 16
O8)

[TreasonousBastard]

59. Quaker

Join Bonnie Raitt, Joan Baez, and Ben Kingsley in silent services.

Most of us have no preachers or set beliefs or dogma, and some even claim to be atheists. If you find the right meeting, though, it can be a profound spiritual experience.

We're not to be confused with the Amish, btw, and don't talk or dress funny any more, or take vows of poverty.

Most of us do, however, have extremely active Peace and Social Concerns committees.

http://www.quaker.org
http://www.quakerfinder.org

[smirkymonkey]

61. Go to beliefnet.com

They have a test you can take that is pretty accurate (I came out Unitarian)which is what I would be if I attended services.

Also, there is a wealth of information on all the religions in the world, so it might help you in your research. Good luck!

[RedEarth]

72. Beliefnet.com is an excellent site

They also have forums where you are able to ask people questions about their denominations.

[Catholic Sensation]

65. This may seem biased

but Catholicism is the best for Democrats. I mean, we have the Kennedys, John Kerry, Barney Frank (I believe he's Catholic), Wesley Clark, Thomas Moore, and I believe Sacco and Vanzetti. How could one not want to be catholic when you look at the people we have on our side? :)

[DeepModem Mom]

67. Put an Episcopal Church on your visiting list...

but be sure it's not one that's been overtaken by evangelicals. You usually don't have to check your intelligence at the door, and the liturgy, music, and church buildings themselves have a beauty that might help as you start to think about the spiritual growth you're looking for.

[geniph]

69. I belong to the Church of the Militant Agnostic

We Don't Know and You Don't Either!

[Shyriath]

70. I suggest sun worship.

Either that, or moon worship. Think of it... no one can say your god doesn't exist, and no one can say that it doesn't have any power over mortal affairs! (Well, the moon just does moonlight... and tides... but still!)

[Djinn]

73. I'm with truthspeaker

why do you need any religious order to feel "spiritual" whatever that means.

I think if more people tried to make a connection with the people they see/meet everyday rather than a jewish hippie that died 2000 years ago we'd all be better off.

I'm not sure how one can go religious shopping eg if you beleive that "jesus was the son of god" then you CAN'T be muslim if you beleive in a monothesitic power you CANT be pagan etc

BTW - how come the beliefnet doesn't have agnostic or atheist?

[WWW]

71. Wow, thanks so much for all of the responses!

You guys were all so sweet to share your thoughts. I think I have a lot to chew on. I guess the main thing I learned from all of you yesterday was that if DU was a religion, we would have a full church every day of the week! And what an incredible service each one would be! Again, thanks so much!

[trof]

78. I can ordain you

in the Church of the Perpetual Redemption for $39.95.
You get some nifty tax write-offs.

$279.95 (plus S&H) if you want the outfit too.