Better kind of Barbecue

[HillDem]

This new place opened up near my house, and they sell 2 kinds of barbecue-- Texas style, or North Carolina style. I like them both, but I was wondering what the Lounge thought....

The question is what do I get tomorrow for dinner?

[Scout1071]

1. Both are crap. Kansas City BBQ is king.

Visit www.jackstackbbq.com for a look at some real BBQ.

[mitchum]

4. You and Calvin Trillin are both full of...

inferior barbeque :)

[Scout1071]

23. Calvin has an impeccable resume and I see he is a native

of my beloved Kansas City.

[mitchum]

27. He has also long been an advocate of Kansas City barbecue

[Common Sense Party]

39. Once you go Brazilian, you never go back.

Try some fraldinha.

[DrDan]

57. another vote here for KC bbq

love Bryants and Gates

Have to hit both of them during annual treks from Fl to MO - and I always bring back a case of Gates

Not sure where the Texas and NC fast-food crowd get their idea that their's even come close to KC bbq

[DrDan]

58. another vote here for KC bbq

love Bryants and Gates

Have to hit both of them during annual treks from Fl to MO - and I always bring back a case of Gates

Not sure where the Texas and NC fast-food crowd get their idea that their's even come close to KC bbq

(sorry for double-post - a delay "forced" me to hit the post button twice)

[Scout1071]

65. Next time you come thru, hit Fiorella's Jack Stack BBQ.

Gates and Bryants are what I would call "lunch BBQ." Fiorella's is "dinner BBQ."

www.jackstackbbq.com

You won't regret it.

[Metta]

81. Lunch? Dinner? Please explain.

Thank you from a barbecue bereft area. :(

[Scout1071]

82. Sure. Just a couple of differences

Lunch BBQ is more beef brisket/turkey/ham on a bun with fries/rings. You know the cafeteria style at Gates.

Dinner BBQ is more of a sit-down affair with more prime rib, steaks, fish, loaded baked potatoes, etc.

Ribs are for either meal!

[Metta]

83. Thank you.

I appreciate the distinction. Here in the bereft corner of southwestern PA, we take what we can get. :)

[tigereye]

121. how about HotLicks?

or are you a serious BBQ connosieur? Red River BBQ isn't too bad. I have heard that there used to be some really good BBQ in the Hill District... although I can't say from experience. I'll ask my brother, he is the grill king.

:hi: I was just at Ali Baba over the weekend and I just remembered we talked about a DU meet. My kid has been sick all week and I haven't had a moment to consider social events. Maybe when things settle down.

[Metta]

122. Haven't tried Hotlicks.

Isn't that just a glorified bar? We don't go to places w/o clearly separate no smoking sections. It just plays havoc with our upper respiratory systems and we don't like the smell in our food.

I had a decent pulled pork sandwich at Atria's today. They use a sweet sauce which was okay for a change. I heard mixed things about Red River. I did a google search and found some dreadful reviews which put the kabosh on my enthusiasm. Ever been to Clem's near Rt. 56 near Johnstown? They have really good barbecue.

I was at Ali Baba's last week with one of the guys. Good, as always. They may be one of the few places in town that serves lamb shank which I really like if its done well.

We've been really sick for the past two weeks though we'd be up for a DU get together sometime down the line. Weekends are best for us although I'm freer during the week. Let's keep in touch around this, Tiger. :hi:

[tigereye]

134. Hotlicks was one of the few places in the East End for ribs

when it opened. We always went to the one in Shadyside, long gone now. I always liked their ribs and never thought of it as "just a bar." There used to be one in Mt. Lebanon - I don't know if it's still there. It wasn't as cool as the Shadyside and East Liberty ones.

I think Red River only has 2 or 3 types of ribs, I've liked what I had there, although I am by no means a rib connosieur. I love their coleslaw! The Rib cook off at 3 Rivers was a nice place to catch some rib variety from out of state - I don't know where they have it now.

[Metta]

135. Have you ever been to Buffalo Blues in Shadyside?

Is that anything more than a smokey bar? Now that I'm thinking about it, wasn't Hotlicks the place downstairs from the Balcony? I remember liking them although I though their prices were high.

[tigereye]

138. no, I don't think so

my kid always drags me to Max and Erma's. I don't get out to many of the tonier establishments these days! ;)
And my tolerance for smoke is almost nil ( nothing like a reformed smoker!)

Yeah, Hotlicks was downstairs from the Balcony...Shadyside was a very different animal then. Do you remember the Greek restaurant that was on top of a clothing store? I think in the 80s. That was really good - no ribs though.

[Metta]

139. Don't remember the Greek place. Do you remember the Gazebo?

Right next door, more of less, to the Balcony. Great deli and deserts. I miss them. Do you have a favorite place for good old fashioned deli?

[tigereye]

141. yes, yes I do

I couldn't remember the name! They had great cheesecake!

mmmmm. Squirrel Hill, I guess... Kazanskys that used to be Rhodas.

[Metta]

142. Kazansky's is still there.

One of my friends has the guitar store across the street and he says they have a really good fritata. I've been meaning to try it though I wind up with other things on my mind because we get into town more infrequently than I'd like.

[Metta]

84. Thank you.

I appreciate the distinction. Here in the bereft corner of southwestern PA, we take what we can get. :)

[xmas74]

98. I haven't been to Jack Stack in a long time!

Seems like I'm replying to a few of your posts tonight. We must defend the BBQ!

[DrDan]

136. made a note of it

will be back in June - will hit Fiorella's then

what part of town will I find it?

[chieftain]

128. Don't worry, it was worth saying at least twice.

I prefer Bryants but Gates is second best in the world.

[EstimatedProphet]

74. Damn straight!

Best there is!

[xmas74]

97. Bingo!

We have a winner.

[nemo137]

101. As an ex-Kansas Citizen (Kansas Cityan?), I agree

Man, just thinking about it makes my mouth water.

[Blue_Tires]

114. KC is still the king!!!

[mitchum]

2. NC style is the ONLY type of barbeque

that Texas abomination is just ketchup glob smeared on beef. On BEEF forgodsake.

Vinegar, pepper and pork is the only way to go.

[LostinVA]

60. Amen!

[VaYallaDawg]

80. Double that amen! NC is the tops!!

[LostinVA]

92. Arm-licking good! And add the cobbler and 'puppies

[yellowdogintexas]

103. oh I wish I was THERE!! ...but I was in Kentucky last week and

I had some good pulled pork w/vinegar sauce.

[LostinVA]

106. Can't hear you... you're not coming through... sorry

Good pulled pork 'cue in Kentucky? Ho ho ho. Forsooth.

[yellowdogintexas]

127. best I ever ate was in Kentucky, but must admit it was

practically in Tennessee, since I lived on the state line.

I will forever mourn the demise of the Kozy Korner.

[KitchenWitch]

3. Explain what the difference is

I love all types of BBQ but do not know the difference.

[HillDem]

here ya go

NC style BBQ is made with pork shoulder cooked slowly over a hickory fire, basted in a sauce made with vinegar, ketchup, water, salt, and pepper

Texas is usually roasted at higher temperatures with a tomato based sauce and has a 'smokier' taste, with hot sauce too

[Flaxbee]

13. South Carolina is even better... skip the ketchup, add mustard!

YUM!

[HillDem]

14. I think I'm going to go on

a barbecue pilgrimage this summer. I'm going to drive around the country from state to state and eat only barbecue and nothing else.

Am I on to something?

[BikeWriter]

37. I've smoked many a pork roast or shoulder, with...

mustard, brown sugar, vinegar, honey, etcetera, but where is the barbecue? Where is the brisket?

[Scout1071]

5. Carolina is pork and vinegar.

They are the pulled pork experts.

Texas is hot sauce.

Kansas City is king of the smoked and grilled. Ribs, brisket, burnt ends, sausages, chicken, fish and more. Our flavor is in the cooking process and rubs used on the meat prior to cooking. Our sauces are better too, but only as a topping. You won't need much with the flavor in our meats.

[HillDem]

6. Never been to KC

sounds tasty though.

Do you think it's worth a road trip?

[Scout1071]

8. Oh hell yea! We'd love to have you.

Are you a basketball fan?

[HillDem]

15. Well, I like to hate on Duke

So, yes I am.

[Scout1071]

18. Then you should check out Allen Fieldhouse while you are in the

neighborhood. KU just opened a new museum this week with tons of great items. Like the handwritten original rules of basketball written by the inventor of the game and KU's first coach, Dr. James Naismith. The museum is first class. All basketball history leads to Lawrence. It's worth a look if you are in the area. Especially if you know some locals who can get the hook up on tix. :)

PS - Duke sucks.

[KitchenWitch]

7. Thank you

I am partial to Kansas City style.

[Scout1071]

9. I could tell.

You've always seemed like a fine citizen with impeccable taste.

[KitchenWitch]

11. absolutely!

as are you!

:hi:

[AngryAmish]

10. Burnt ends

KC's ONLY contribution to BBQ.

I'm from Chicago and I can say Chicago BBQ sucks. I'm a Memphis guy, but when you can get NC BBQ (vinegar and pepper) there is nothing like it.

[yellowdogintexas]

104. begging your pardon but I live in Texas and the sauce is not HOT

at the BBQ places.

The hottest, and I do mean hottest sauce I evah ate was in Kentucky at the Kozy Korner (may it rest in peace) in my li'l ole home town. That ole lady made some SAUCE! Southeastern style, vinegar based, tons of cayenne and nice and thin.
My mom kept a bottle of hot and mild in the refrigerator at all times, and I did too until the store finally closed down.

There were a couple of family joints in Nashville that were close.

The sauce in Texas is too sweet for me folks, and up around the Ohio River it is like way too sweet (Owensboro and Evansville think they are BBQ capitals just because they will smoke anything you bring in and don't ask questions)

[BikeWriter]

20. KW, bear with us, Darling. We are surrounded by barbarians...

without the slightest idea of how to cook barbecue.

[GOPisEvil]

12. One more time: IT. IS. ALL. GOOD!

I live in Texas - and I do like smoked brisket, beef ribs, sausage, turkey breast, et. al. I've had Kansas City BBQ, and it's damned good. I've had homemade NC-style, and it was good in its own right.

Basically, if it's smoked meat, I'm good with it.

[Scout1071]

16. How very diplomatic of you GOP.

I appreciate the effort.

[GOPisEvil]

19. Seriously, it's like sex (from what I remember) even when it's bad,

it's still pretty good.

[Scout1071]

24. Dunno why......but

I think I blushed at that comment.

:blush:

[BikeWriter]

26. Deleted comment aboutTexas style.

[Scout1071]

38. Like I said.......I'm familiar. n/t

[BikeWriter]

40. The comment was not about aboutTexas style... barbecue.

[Scout1071]

41. I know. Neither was mine.

[BikeWriter]

42. ...

:rofl:

[GOPisEvil]

28. .

}(

[BikeWriter]

21. Uh, but you do know how BBQ's cooked best, right?

[GOPisEvil]

29. Please tell me.

:)

[BikeWriter]

31. My dear Sir, you were waxing eloquent, but...

all too Democratically. Texas barbecue is a wonderful thing and is head and shoulders above all the rest, as it should be.

[GOPisEvil]

32. Well, it's hard to be humble...

...yada, yada, yada...;)

[BikeWriter]

35. ROFLOL! I ask you this, Sir. Is it kind of us to be reticent...

about the pleasures of Texas barbecue, when the world's palate settles for second best?

[KitchenWitch]

36. And all along I thought you were a vegan!

:P

[GOPisEvil]

64. !!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I couldn't be a vegetarian, much less vegan!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[KitchenWitch]

100. I know exactly what you mean!

:rofl:

:hi:

[Sugar Smack]

48. YES. Both, please.

Now, I'm hungry.

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. Georgia style.

Pulled pork (not chopped), slow-smoked over oak and hickory in an open pit. Served with a thin, spicy and slightly sweet (thanks to the addition of brown sugar) vinegar-based sauce and Brunswick stew. The best barbecue on the planet is from Fresh Air Barbecue in Jackson, Georgia...little hole-in-the-wall place that's been open since 1929. Widely known as THE best barbecue joint in the state, and one of the five or ten best in the South.

[BikeWriter]

22. Brunswick stew? Where the #### is Brunswick and what has it to do...

with BBQ? You had me, Spider, until you mentioned Brunswick stew!

[Spider Jerusalem]

25. It's a county in Virginia...

the stew is so-called because that's where it comes from originally. Chicken (or pork or beef or all three) cooked in a large pot, the vegetables (corn, peppers, onions, etc) added to the stock, slow-simmered. Here in Georgia it's considered an essential menu item for a good BBQ dinner. I'd definitely recommend giving it a try if you're ever out this way.

[BikeWriter]

30. In Texas that would be a stew or perhaps...

a roast, certainly not a barbecue. We may be comparing apples and oranges, with differing definitions.

[Spider Jerusalem]

33. It's not barbecue...

just a side dish. Half the time I skip the stew in favour of more meat to fill the hole in my middle, anyway.

[BikeWriter]

34. Hmm, here in Texas the point of a barbecue is consuming...

vast quantities of tender flesh, usually accompanied by heroic amounts of alcoholic beverages. Brunswick Stew sounds like a pleasant comestible, but would not be associated with barbecue. Here, the usual side dishes are baked beans, potato salad, and perhaps slaw.

[RubyDuby in GA]

53. There is some controversy

I've heard many claim that Brunswick stew originated in Brunswick, GA.

Should we arm wrestle for the title? :silly:

[Spider Jerusalem]

111. Here's my reference

(I'd thought it originated in Georgia, too--turns out I was wrong):

http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-555

[RubyDuby in GA]

117. Well.......I stand corrected and I tip my hat to you sir for your research

[RubyDuby in GA]

52. Brunswick is off the coast of Georgia

and criticism of the stew is grounds for challenging you to a duel. It's simply how things are done here - just ask Zell :P

[BikeWriter]

55. Texans have been known to fight over barbecue...

The stew sounds good, but not with BBQ. ;-)

[RubyDuby in GA]

62. I personally don't like it

What's wrong with coleslaw? Now that's a BBQ side dish.
But some people around these here parts swear it's not a complete BBQ meal without that stew. I say to them: Whateveh!!!!!!!! :)

[BikeWriter]

67. Yep, coleslaw is common at Texas BBQs. I do shrimp slaw...

quite often myself, and prefer it. ;-)

[texas1928]

68. But not the vinegary coleslaw

it has to be creamy.

[BikeWriter]

69. I agree. I do sometimes like it with raisins, too.

[RubyDuby in GA]

71. Raisins? Ew...now you go too far

:)

I like both kinds - the creamy and the vinegar-y kind, but without raisins.

[texas1928]

73. Raisins are ok.

But they are awesome in the creamy carrot slaw. mmmmm

[RubyDuby in GA]

75. Well, we shall have to agree to disagree my friend

:toast:

[BikeWriter]

109. S'okay, Tex and I will eat your share of the raisins. ;-)

[RubyDuby in GA]

116. Y'all are welcome to it. It's all yours....... :)

:hi:

[BikeWriter]

108. Oh, yeah! ;-)

[shanti]

86. never heard of shrimp slaw...

gotta recipe?

[BikeWriter]

107. It's very simple to make a delicious shrimp slaw...

I use a medium sized green cabbage shredded in a food processor or chopped fine with a knife. I add a few diced carrots and a red Bell pepper for color and flavor, but these are optional. A roasted green chile pepper is another option I usually add. Add about one pound of boiled and peeled shrimp, chopped finely.
Season to taste with your favorite seasoning. I use Tony Chachere's® Famous Creole Seasoning. If you can't find that or a similar one use chili powder, onion powder, garlic powder, and salt.
Fold in Hidden Valley Ranch Dressing until you reach the desired consistency. This is better if made beforehand and chilled in the fridge for several hours. This allows the flavors to meld.
The slaw is delicious by itself served as a salad with saltines or accompanying barbecued meats.

[shanti]

120. mmmm, it sounds yummy!

i must try it:) thanks!

[BikeWriter]

123. You're most welcome! Everyone I know loves it. ;-)

[RubyDuby in GA]

51. Can I get a HELL YEAH!!!!!

We go out of our way to get this stuff. Damn good barbecue.
I also recommend a little place in Warm Springs called Mac's BBQ. Meat is good, but they have this hot sauce there that will burn the hair off your tongue. Damn good eatin'! Damn good....

[EstimatedProphet]

76. Yup-I used to go to Mac's for lunch when I worked at the hatchery

The hot is HOT. This comes from someone who eats jalapenos for snack food.

However, it's still not as good as KC barbecue.

[Spider Jerusalem]

113. I'll have to stop in there next time I'm out that way.

Maybe this weekend; if the weather holds up Saturday would be a good day for a drive along some twisty roads with the top down...

[William Bloode]

126. Thats actually Carolina style.

It spread all over the mid Atlantic area and is the most common type from Virginia, to Georgia, Kentucky, to Arkansas.

[calico1]

43. I don't know what kind of "style" it is but I like

whichever kind is the kind where the ribs are a little crsip on the outside and just enough barbecue sauce for the taste. Is that any kind named above?

I absolutely hate soft, mushy ribs floating in barbecue "soup."

[BikeWriter]

45. Mmm, BBQ ribs!

[BikeWriter]

44. My baked bean recipe, what's yours?

Chop up and lightly fry a half pound of diced bacon in a Dutch oven. Pour off most of the grease. Add several minced garlic cloves and three medium diced onions and sautee them until clarified.
Open and drain three family sized cans of pork and beans and add them to the onions along with a handful of dark brown sugar. Stir in a whole bottle of your favorite barbecue sauce and the pot goes into the oven at about 350 until the beans are tender.

[evlbstrd]

46. That pot of beans

should be sitting under the ribs or brisket inside the smoker.

[BikeWriter]

47. Some of those drippings could sweeten the pot, for sure!

[Scout1071]

50. Spoken like a true KC native.

Ala Fiorella's...

[evlbstrd]

61. Yup.

Ala my smoker!

[revolutionrock]

49. Virginia style, homemade that is.

[seemunkee]

54. NC - BBQ is pork. Beef is something else but not BBQ

and got to have some slaw with it.

[HillDem]

91. Slaw, and some hushpuppies

and maybe some collard greens.

[texas1928]

56. Ya know, I was born and raised in Texas.

and I learned from some great grill masters IMHO.

And we never slathered sauce all over the meat as we cooked it. We made dry rubs and slow cooked it over mesquite. Two things make great Texas Barbeque it is the rub and the mesquite. We made the sauce to have on the side if you wanted it. But to barbeque you use dry rubs and slow cook it. And hot fires are not for slow cooking it. So whoever said Texas BBQ is hotter fire, is wrong. It is slow cooked. These Chain Places who put sauce all over it as they cook it are ruining the meat. If you cook it right and have the right rub, you do not need a sauce, except maybe if you are making BBQ sandwiches.

[BikeWriter]

70. Mmm, I could stand a pound or two of that right now, Tex! ;-)

[texas1928]

72. After work i am getting a half pound of brisquit and a pound

of beef short ribs. I can not wait for 4 PM to get here.

[BikeWriter]

112. We're making me hungry for some good BBQ, too!

[LostinVA]

59. NC LEXINGTON Style -- need to edit your poll

Lexington-style is WAY better than Eastern style. Stamey's in Greensboro... yum, yum. I gorged at the Battleground location when I went to GSO in October... and brought a bunch home, too.

[HillDem]

87. I like the eastern kind a little more

I just love that vinegar flavor!

[LostinVA]

93. gasp gasp gasp gasp gasp gasp gasp gasp gasp gasp gasp

[HillDem]

96. Breath

Just breath.

And then learn the truth.

Eastern>Lexington!

[LostinVA]

99. BLASPHEMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However, we can agree on one thing: Whether Lexington (the bestestestest ever) Or Easter... BOTH are superior to any other ;cue in the whole frickin' world!

[no name no slogan]

63. Minnesota Style

only it's not meat, it's fish. And it's dried in a barrel of lye, and covered with butter or cream sauce and served with mashed potatos.

Oh wait, that's lutefisk. My bad.

[JVS]

77. Dats some tasty bbq ya got dere, Sven!

[KitchenWitch]

105. EWWWWWWWWWW

x(

[leftofthedial]

66. for the two lamest "schools" of BBQ,

I'd have to go with North Carolina, where they may fuck it up with their smoking and that vile crap they call sauce, but at least they respect pork.

You want the best BBQ, go to Memphis, Chicago or KC.

[KamaAina]

78. BBQ is on practically every street corner in Honolulu -- Korean style!

The star is kal bi, or short ribs. Sauce is, unsurprisingly, soy-based. It or bul go gi (thin-sliced beef) is often served as a "plate lunch", with two scoops of rice (actual ice cream scoops; the rice is sticky) and one of a dreadful mayo-based concoction known as macaroni salad. :puke:

And for a safety valve, if you must have Texas-style, it's around, too, out by the military bases.

[kick-ass-bob]

79. They are completely different and should not even be compared.

They're not even the same meat, are they?

All BBQ is good. Depends on your mood.

[Wapsie B]

85. This vinegar-based sauce sounds interesting.

I always like to try something different. I'd love a good recipe for a vinegar sauce.

[HillDem]

89. It is amazing! n/t

[Dervill Crow]

118. Tabasco and hot pepper vinegar - anyone else do it differently?

Enquiring minds want to know.

[HEyHEY]

88. British Columbian style

[HillDem]

90. Looks good

I like the set-up too.

[Dr Fate]

94. N.C., S.C. & G.A. have the best. I love hash & rice.

Most of the non-Southern styles do not have the hash & rice.

Whats up w/ that?

[xmas74]

95. Kansas City style.

It's the only one I will eat.
Try Arthur Bryants if you ever make it to the area.

[yellowdogintexas]

102. spicy vinegary pulled pork with lots of hot sauce!

North Carolina,Tennessee, southern Kentucky, and other places.

I'd go for the pulled pork.




I

[Shell Beau]

110. Memphis is the BBQ place!! And here in MS, it ain't too bad!

:9

[DinahMoeHum]

115. NC style - are we talking Eastern NC or Western NC ??

I understand that even within NC BBQ there are differences.

:shrug:

[Magrittes Pipe]

119. Memphis dry-rub

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

124. Other: Brazilian style.

[XOKCowboy]

131. Reminds me of Spain...

Those people know how to grill some meat dude. I'd figure that since Brazil was founded by Portugese it makes sense. Dammit now I'm hungry.

[William Bloode]

125. I like them all.

But being from N.C. i go with that because to us nothing else is BBQ, it's called grilled. Or "If it ain't hickory smoked in a pit it ain't shit".

Anyway N.C. for what real BBQ is. Texas because of the fine ass steaks. K.C. because they have those awsome ribs.

It's not even really good to make a comparison as it is really apples, and oranges, with each place having a totally different take on what BBQ is. N.C. is the original. Texas added the thick tomato sauce, and K.C. is like a joining of the 2.

[XOKCowboy]

129. Ya know... I do too..

I'm from Oklahoma and we grew our own beef. Our BBQs had both beef and pork (we're no fools) and even some chicken. We'd always do a mustard sauce on half and a KC styled sauce on the other half to please everyone. Man we still have some great BBQs up on the ranch.

I always try to hit a BBQ place when I travel just to see what they put in front of me. My idea of a store bought BBQ dinner is served on cellophane. There's a pile of onions and pickles on the side. It comes with a bowl of BBQ beans and maybe a side of coleslaw. Top that off with a draft beer and that's a meal!

[XOKCowboy]

130. I've even had some Caribbean style BBQ in Miami

It wasn't what I expected and the sauce was nothing like I'd ever had but it was tasty. Lots of tamarind and fruit juices, etc. The meat was tender and tasty too. Just not what I'd call BBQ. Live and learn.

[Dying Eagle]

132. C-H-I-C-A-G-O

Best BBQ i have ever had.

[Kali]

133. aaauuughhhh

Yer killing me. We're having bland leftover turkey cassarole. I want BBQ. wwwhhhhaaaaaa


they all sound good, I'll take a 1/2 pound of each of the boneless kinds and 1 and 1/2 pounds each of the kinds of beef and pork ribs - hell, throw in some fishes and chickens too YUMMMMMMMMM

[pdx_prog]

137. Memphis is king of the world

when it comes to bbq.

www.hogsfly.com

Yummmm...

[DawgHouse]

140. All barbecue is good but Memphis style is the best!

Pulled pork sandwich with coleslaw... YUM!