The one thing I suck at is the one thing that matters most to me.

[JohnnyCougar]

I am good at everything nearly everything.

I am extremely "smart". I am en route to my PhD. I have an IQ at the lower end of genius. I study for hours what others study for days, and I still get better grades. Even grad school goes way too slow to pique my interest.

I am good at art, writing, poetry, and can play many musical instruments.

I am a great, loyal friend. I have about 5 or 6 friends that all tell me I am their best friend. I know I am, too. I am the one person others turn to for help, guy or girl.

I am good at sports.

I am a great introspective thinker. I know who I am better than anyone I know.

I am a great conversationalist.

I am funny, and have a great sense of humor.

I am good at debate.

I have confidence in myself.

I am able to show true love to good people, and forgive them if they make a mistake.

I am able to forgive myself.

But I am absolutely horrible with women romantically. No matter what I think they want, they want the opposite. If I think they like me, they don't. If I think they don't like me, they do. I am a fool for bad women. I admit it. If I could just learn about this one thing, I would be happy. But no advice I have yet received has helped me. I think all good women are bad. And I think all bad women are good. Every time I give some woman some slack, they use me. Every time I shut someone out, I realize that they were a great person when it is too late. It's like I am cursed. I can't tell the difference.

But everyone tells me the same thing..."don't worry, your time will come." But I doubt it. I feel like there is something wrong with me. And there probably is. But I am not able to tell what that is, because my friends all tell me that I am the best person they ever met, and that there is nothing wrong with me. Well, I disagree. No one can have such confusing experiences with women and have nothing wrong with them. As objective as I am normally, I can't see what my problem is here. I don't hate women. I love them. I am friends with them. Some of the best advice I have received has come from women. But I can't make sense of what they want romantically.

Sorry about this late night rant. But there is a lot of intelligent people on here with much more experience in life than my friends (and of course myself). Maybe they know something that I don't. I don't know who to turn to for advice anymore, because no one will give me an honest opinion. They just say I am awesome and are afraid to criticize me to my face. Obviously, no one on here knows me personally. But maybe they know someone who has had a similar experience in life.

[k_jerome]

1. perhaps you are too humble.

women love a confident man.

[DrDan]

27. I was thinking the same thing as I read the post

[XemaSab]

2. Maybe you're trying too hard

You say it's the thing that matters most.

Think about that for a moment.

But yeah, I hear where you're coming from. I am a walking relationship disaster myself. And like you, I don't get it. :(

[SoCalDem]

3. You should back off and quit looking.

When you are NOT actively looking, you will find someone.

or you might try the dating service route. At least then you would both be on the same page at the same time..

The older you getm ther more difficult it gets because there is more baggage. You didn;t say your age, but it you are late 20s and up, women your age might have ex-husbands..kids..etc. If you are looking for the "young'uns" you might find little in common with them..

The more you force the issue, the worse it will seem.

and of course if you are only looking at the "chickies" at pick-up places, you will probably just keep finding shallow, promiscuous women.. (if that's what you are looking for, there is nothing wrong with flings, but you seem to want more)

my .02

[Ellen Forradalom]

4. Thanks for coming clean

without self-pity. ("I'm such a niiiice guy!")

The whole courtship dance is culture dependent and involves a great many verbal and non-verbal cues. Only an anthropologist with years of study could really identify all of them. It's possible that you're a little 'tone-deaf' in that area.

Please take heart, however. You may have a bumpy ride in the short term, but if you take a deep breath and say, "If Norbert Wiener can get married and have a family, so can I," it will all work out.

[gmoney]

5. Johnny, did you read that book I sent you the PM about?

If you haven't, track down a copy and dedicate a day to reading it... December 31 would be an ideal day to read it.

You will begin to see things more clearly.

Good luck, and Happy New Year.

[BlackVelvet04]

6. Well,

look at this statement: "But I can't make sense of what they want romantically."

Women are individuals and each wants something different. There is no magic pick up line, or present to buy, or special move that will appeal to WOMEN.

Listen to the woman you are with...really listen. See her as a unique individual who has nothing to do with past relationships that went wrong. Go slow, listen to her and listen to your heart.

Good luck.

[Ron Mexico]

7. Here's advice that will work.

When you're talking to women, act as if they already like you, whether there's reason to believe they do or not. If you're actually as full of positive qualities as you claim (humility or lack thereof might be an issue in your relations, by the way), they should eventually "come around." Acting as if they already like you is the short cut to exuding the sort of confidence that works wonders on most women. Stop trying to "make sense of what they want romantically" and wait until the point where she makes the same effort to make sense of what you want.

I know I'm going to sound like a belligerent asshole for saying this, but listening to you rattle off your list of positive qualities leads me to believe that when you're on dates / in bed / whatever, you do most of the talking. Let THEM do the talking. And then, sit there and pretend that you're sort of a celebrity and they interruped your dinner to talk to you and get your autograph (an offshoot of the "pretend the audience is in its underwear" idea which will allow you to follow my original advice of pretending they already like you).

Every person I know who has come to me with a story like yours can be described with one phrase: "he always tries too hard." Don't. Act as if your presence is as much of a favor to her as hers is to you.

And who am I to give this sort of advice, and why can I assure you it works? I'm the most average-looking guy you'll ever meet, a Joe Blow with a sexual history of Sam Malone and a wife who's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of my league. You're lacking in confidence, that much is clear - so act as if they already like you. It sounds like horseshit, but I heard this advice at age 20 and went from loser to stud as soon as I got it, even though my looks never improved. Try it. Convince yourself that they already like you, learn it, live it, and soon you'll find yourself with more satisfied customers than a hooker during Super Bowl week.

Good luck and happy holidays.

[JohnnyCougar]

10. You're probably right.

I spend too much time justifying why I am a good person. I am too rational. I have to get it out of my mind that somehow rationality is going to win me love.

And I do talk too much.

It's like the more you want something, the harder you try. It just comes naturally. And it's hard to stop yourself even if you know it's bad for you.

That would explain why people you're not interested in show more interest in you. It's a damn conundrum.

Thanks for the advice. I'll have to get this through my thick, overly rational skull.

[Ron Mexico]

11. It actually takes practice.

The first few times you try it, it might not work well because it probably won't look natural. I remember hearing this "miracle advice" and being extremely unimpressed with my first few test drives. However, believe me - when you get it down and see the results come from it, you will remember my name for life and sing folk songs about me on camping trips. It works that well.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. Your recitation of your resume made it sound like a job interview

rather than a date.

A woman may like you as a friend for the qualities that you list, but she'll love you because something in her psyche clicks with something in your psyche, and then your other good qualities will just be extra freebies. It's not, "I fell in love because he writes poetry," it's more like, Day 1: "I'm in love! I met the greatest guy--it's as if I've known him all my life." Day 2: "And guess what, he writes poetry!"

Concentrate on buliding an emotional connection and let your other sterling traits come as delightful add-ons.

[mac56]

24. Brilliant. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.

There is no denying that women are attracted to confident men. That's one of the reasons so many women get together with their sensitive nice guy buddies who are eternally in the friend zone - and complain for hours about the butthead they're dating at the time. The butthead is confident. A confident butthead, to be sure, but confident just the same. The nice guy isn't. That's part of what makes him vulnerable.

[Misunderestimator]

8. You already know the problem... at least that's a start.

[LaraMN]

9. Well, you can't be good at EVERYTHING. I, for instance, suck at

capturing poltergeist.:shrug:

:P

Seriously, though, I agree; if you try too hard, it's off-putting, and most women looking for a serious relationship appreciate sincerity. Men who are SO cocky as to be certifiably arrogant are the most unappealing men on earth. Have a sense of humor, for sure!

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

14. ha-ha, you can't catch poltergeists!

[LaraMN]

15. and now, I am in tears over your cruel taunting. I hope you're happy.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

16. crybaby. non-ghost-catching whiner. sniif sniff, you're breaking my heart

[Taverner]

21. Well I suck at wearing boots

I try but they don't slim my calves enough

[LaraMN]

25. Maybe you're just too short for them.

They can be unflattering on the wrong type of build. I'm sure that's all it is.:P

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liontamer]

13. three things

first: screw you for thinking grad school moves too slow, I'm in my third year and it's crushing me.

second: you probably just haven't met the right woman yet(i know super trite). But there are women out there who give off bad woman vibes who are actually really good and stable. And some of them like smartypants :p

Just don't expect some magic formula to unlock "women". Women are people and all people are different. If you're as great as you say you are, eventually things will click.

three: don't be afraid to go backward. If you screwed up with someone who you later realized was good for you, go back and apologize. people are forgiving.

good luck

[caty]

17. Find the woman you can be friends with.

Then let the relationship go from there. A good relationship is based on the "golden rule". If you treat her the way you want to be treated---and she treats you the way she want to be treated---you both should get what you want out of the time you spend together.

[eeyore]

18. The stink of desperation will get you nowhere fast (or the wrong place)...

There is no reason to hurry at all, and trying will most likely just cause you heartache and trouble in the end.

I mostly see this with my female friends, they hit a certain age, and start to think that the world is passing them by. All of a sudden they think they will never have love, never be married, and never have a baby. They begin to take on an undeniable stink of desperation, and scare the hell out of any man who they come into contact with. They just kick the whole process into high gear from the first date, busting out with questions about kids and family and marriage thinking that they don't have the time to be sent down a bad road. This scares the living shit out of most men, and it just makes the situation fold back on itself and get worse yet again.

I sense some of this in you, and you already are saying that you think something is wrong with you that you can't get it going on.

My advice to you is this: learn to be happy alone, and then you may find someone to be happily together with. But first you must be happy alone - truly happy. You need to get to the point where you don't obsess about it. You're wound up about it and women can tell.

I had a string of bad relationships, and I got very frustrated like you. When I graduated from college I decided that what I really needed was to learn to live alone - I'd never done that. I just spent about two years getting to know myself, learning what sorts of things I liked to do that didn't involve other people. I ran a lot, I spent a lot of time learning the guitar, I got into photography, and spent a lot of time cooking.

Eventually I moved back to the town where I had gone to college, and ran into an old friend who had been doing the same thing. She had been sick of bad, dramatic, and just plain wrong relationships, and had decided to take some time off from that whole game.

She and I ended up getting together, and I came to an amazing realization. Drama sucks, and that's not what good relationships are all about for me. I was now with a friend who let me be me, who didn't demand that I try to be anything else, and I wanted to be with her for who she is. It's comfortable, and not what I expected I would find.

Hollywood fills our heads full of this idea that we will be swept off our feet. In my case what I found is that I found someone with whom the drama disappears, and that's the best thing of all. We can be in the house for hours at a time doing separate things and feel like we are together.

So, just learn to be happy and comfortable alone, then you will be able to be happy with someone else. You will eventually find that person, and if not you'll at least be happy by yourself. The pressure you are putting on yourself right now will most likely doom you to drama and trauma.

Good luck!

--edit-- That friend I got together with is now my wife of almost 10 years. :toast:

[RevCheesehead]

29. This is an awesome post.

:thumbsup:

[eeyore]

33. Thanks Rev...

Took me many drama-filled relationships to learn, but it was all worth it in the end!

:toast:

[misanthrope]

49. This is the best advice...

...in this entire thread.

[SammyWinstonJack]

58. "Learn to be happy alone first".

Most excellent advice and something I always wanted to achieve but never did.

[Missy Vixen]

19. Romance and women

>I am a fool for bad women. I admit it.<

This is just my opinion, so please take it with a gigantic grain of salt. Reading the above phrase, I'm thinking of the Dixie Chicks song: "There's Your Trouble".

There is most likely a woman in your world right now that thinks you are the end-all, be-all. You just don't know it. If you are as amazing as your post (and I have no reason to doubt you,) she may be shy or believe that she has no chance to capture your attention. "Bad" women are like "bad" men -- they make your toes curl, but they're nowhere to be found in the day-to-day. You want someone who will stick around for the day to day.

Take one more look at the women in your world. If you talked to a bunch of women about why they ended up with their SO or husband, you would be amazed at the reasons why. In my case, he listened to me like I was the most fascinating woman he'd ever met. He made it easy for me to talk to him about anything. I talked to him till I fell in love with him. ;-)

Julie

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. True story to illustrate JulieRB's point

The main relationship of my grad school years almost didn't happen, because he assumed (on no evidence whatsoever) that I was seeing someone, when in fact, I was frustrated because he seemed to be flirting with all these other women and ignoring me.

Then I happened to mention in the presence of one of his friends that I was, in fact, not dating anyone.

The next day, he asked me to a concert, and we were together for two years.

So take another look at the women around you. Don't be like the two grad students, newly arrived from an all-male college, who sat at a lunch table with six or seven women one Friday noon and said, "Gee, if we knew some girls, we could go out dancing tonight."

[WCGreen]

23. Dude.... You got a lot going for you....

All you lack is confidence....

And don't be affraid of getting turned down...

It happens....

Just go for what you want...

[RevCheesehead]

26. why is it that I foresee...

a whole slew of PM's headed your way? :evilgrin:
;)

[pitohui]

28. lucky at cards, unlucky at love

it is the way of the world that no one can have everything

you already have a lot, expecting to be great w. women too is maybe too much

you'll find someone but since you are a high achiever my thought is that you are looking for an equally perfect person, dude, there was only one perfect person & it ain't gonna be your girlfriend

now if by bad women, you actually do mean drug addicts, cheats, etc. OK you need to keep looking, but if you expect everyone to be as perfect as you describe yourself to be, it's too much, we're only human

[Redstone]

30. The people who say "your time will come" are right.

I know this is the last thing you want to hear, but trust me on this: Be patient.

There are many, many young guys in the same EXACT position as you are.

Listen to me, because I'll tell you the truth even when nobody else will (but I'll bet that PLENTY of other DUers will be giving you sound,heartfelt advice as well): Don't sweat the details. Don't worry so much.

Just live, and things will happen when and how they're supposed to.

I knew MANY women who were "keepers" and used to regret having thrown them back, until I realized why that happened.

I got involved with quite a few raving lunatics of women, and wondered why I had wasted my time on them, until I realized why that happened.

All of it happened so that I would be single on the day I meet the woman who was to become Mrs R, and I was 36 years old when that happened.

And you know what? It was worth waiting for.

Once again: Be patient. Just live, and things will happen when and how they're supposed to.

Be at peace with yourself until then, young friend. Be patient, and have hope.

Redstone

[progmom]

31. that's beautiful, Redstone

:hug:

[Redstone]

32. Thank you, m'dear. Stay tuned to this channel; there's better to come.

Redstone

[aclog]

34. This might not help you at all

But are you sure you know what you like? I'm more or less an academic but I don't tend to go for professional women at all. That makes me an asshole, chauvenist, misogynist, and all around sack of crap I guess, but there you have it.

[Fountain79]

35. question..

How old are you?

[JohnnyCougar]

38. I just turned 25 three days ago.

[Fountain79]

41. well...

I'm 26 and I have had that same lament that you have posted here on DU. Look at things this way, you have your whole life to be married and have kids etc...This is the one time in your life that you have the opportunity to do the things that you want to do for yourself. I have managed to bungle one romantic situation after the other to the point that they become the funny stories that I tell people for laughs. Still I couldn't imagine being with anyone right now. As far as just meeting people I would say get involved in community service things, social events, go to a local watering hole and strike up a conversation. Like others have mentioned, if you franticly search for someone...well you will look desperate and that doesn't look good. On a side note...have you tried internet dating sites?

[JohnnyCougar]

42. I have tried internet dating with little success

I like going out to the bars and clubs. I am a very social person, and I just find that internet people are usually too introverted for me. Maybe I'll find someone that way, but it really hasn't worked so far.

[spacelady]

50. You are 25, I met the love of my life at 26 after many romantic debacles.

When you least expect it , expect it. I was always looking, looking. Looking gets you jack squat; living your life, making your life dreams come true-maybe, just maybe that love will drop in to your life when you are at your most confident, accomplished place. That is what happened to me after years of looking. I was more attractive as a confident person who did not need someone, but I was open to possibilities.

[Porcupine]

36. Forget it, give up......walk away from any woman that smiles at you

because in the end we are all just food for the worms anyway. There are reams of skills to be learned, books to be read or (if you are really shallow) just a whole lot of porn dying for your attention.

Hows your painting? Origami? Flamenco guitar? Know any martial arts? (if you do learn another one) Ballroom dancing? Build the house of the future. Just do something else.

Our culture is set up right now to hammer any possibility of a happy relationship into miserable failure so why try?

Give up now. It really does ease the pain of rejection. Pre-reject yourself.

[aclog]

39. BOO-fucking-YAH!!!!

is there a slurp smilie by any chance?

[JohnnyCougar]

37. Thanks for all the replies, people...

I guess I can say at least I am trying. Every time I come on here and complain, it means that I at least made an attempt. :)

It is really the first time in my life that I have had to meet girls "from scratch" instead of from friends, since I am now out of my home city. It's a lot harder piquing the interest of a total stranger that has not already had a chance to get to know you in a non-pressure situation. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with me, and it is just the fact that I have never really done things this way before. I guess I just need practice. Every time I screw up, though, I try to learn something new. Sometimes things are out of my control, but sometimes they aren't.

So I just need to learn from my mistakes. It sucks being the only one in my grad program without a significant other (out of like 12 people). It's been a year and a half since I moved to Chicago, and still no luck. But like everything, I can't be afraid of failing. And I have to stop listening to my pessimistic friends who treat failure like it is the end of the world.

Fuck it...tonight is a new night!

[MrScorpio]

40. I would love to help you discover your inner pimp

After a few lessons from me, you'd have some serious skillz

[DancingBear]

43. Johnny, let me tell you a story

I was a very quiet young man in high school, and I watched girls from afar. I knew girls who wrote my name on their notebooks, and who signed the cast on my broken ankle "love, xxx." I tried to talk to them, I really did, but I felt as if I was watching a birthday party that I never got invited to. I couldn't see the invitation that was waiting for me - I couldn't believe that someone would actually ask me.

College, at first, was no better, until one day I realized I was far from home, and among strangers. I decided, then and there, for reasons still unclear to me today, that I was going to show these people here that I had something to offer. I knew I did, and here, now, was a place to bring it forth. I started to believe in myself, and the introverted kid let the extroverted kid drive the car.

She was, as all us boys called her, "the little one", and I talked to her that first night from my dormitory window. My hands shook as as I stood by her door on our first date, but I had to be the person who went to the party this time. So I screwed up my courage, and the skinny kid with the stringy long hair went out with the little one. She told me stories of her father and his insistence that she learn how to solve mathematical equations, and I told her all about Connecticut. She had the bluest eyes, and as the night grew late we held hands as we slept.

She still can't figure out mathematical story problems, and I never lost the confidence I found that day. We still hold hands as we sleep, and we grow old together knowing we are the missing pieces in each others' lives. I found my best friend 34 years ago, and it had nothing to do with what women want.

But everything to do with what one man needed.

[Missy Vixen]

53. This is beautiful

>I found my best friend 34 years ago, and it had nothing to do with what women want.<

Here's to at least 34 more years of love, friendship, and holding hands while you sleep. :toast:

Julie

[Wetzelbill]

44. join the club

:)

[Elidor]

45. I used to hate it when ppl told me my time would come

But it did, finally. Be ready for it.

[rockymountaindem]

46. I realized something one day

When you're having trouble with something, and people try to reassure you that it's easy, that doesn't make you feel better.

Like, if you can't ride a bike, despite all your attempts, having people say "there there, it's easy and you'll get it"... well, that makes you feel pretty bad for not being able to do it already.

It's the same thing with women. Having other people say "your time will come" isn't that consoling.

[misanthrope]

47. ...Humility?...

...Maybe you should think about the areas in which others surpass you. If you have a hard time making out THAT list, your answer might be there.

[misanthrope]

48. Also remember...

..."Having" is not so great a thing as "wanting."

[tinfoilinfor2005]

51. Have you checked out the basics?

1. Are you clean? Body, hair, teeth, breath, skin, nose hair? Very important, and lots of great guys I know for some reason skip that simple step.

2. Do you dress like a nerd? If you have no fashion sense, spend some time at a good men's clothing shop, and get some advice. You'd be surprised by how many women are turned off by something simple like socks and sandals. Or dorky pants. Or kmart shoes.

3. Do you start most of your sentences with "I"? See if you can strike that word from your vocabulary.

Hope this helps! :)

[JohnnyCougar]

54. I'm pretty groom-conscious.

I have a unique style of dress, but most people like it.

I think I do talk about myself too much, though. Someone actually told me this once, but I kind of brushed it off. I'm not a selfish person, but sometimes I act that way because I don't know what else to do. And I think that if I don't talk about myself, that no one is going to be interested in me. Which is totally wrong, but I do it anyways.

It's different thinking about what you did afterwards compared to when you are actually doing it, too.

Talking about yourself is really a defensive measure, instead of a proactive one. It is made from a position of weakness, rather than strength. I think that it only serves to put distance between me and the girl I am talking too. But knowing this now and actually putting it into practice are two different things.

So I have some work to do. I know I have the ability. It's all mental.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

57. The problem with "talking about yourself" is that you are giving

away what she would like to discover for herself. We women like a little mystery. Instead of saying to her, "I play a dozen instruments," let her find out by actually playing her a song on the piano, let's say. She'll be fascinated with your talent and your modesty for never having mentioned this fascinating piece of information about yourself. And then she will credit herself for her wonderful discovery.

[EstimatedProphet]

52. I know the story

I have most of the same things on your list. I always had problems with women too. In my case it was because I was attracted to the wrong kind-specifically, needy attention seekers. And I missed way too many opportunities because I didn't see them.
What you do to fix this is relax, be comfortable with yourself, and don't worry about it. The right one will come along, and you'll see it happen when she does.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. Yup, the needy attention seekers

Here's another clue from Auntie Lydia, guys: If a woman latches on to you to tell you and only you all her troubles, do not, I repeat, do NOT try to "fix her life."

It means one of these things, none of them good:

1) She has no women friends to share her woes with

2) She used to have women friends, but she's alienated all of them with her constant negativity

3) She definitely has you in the friend-not-lover category, because she would never appear so messed up with a man she was trying to impress

4) She's an emotional tease who delights in getting men attracted to her and then dumping them for some Drama King who will abuse her and provide further plots for her soap opera

5) All of the above

[EstimatedProphet]

59. Bingo!

I've run across a lot of #4, and kept falling for them. Not no more.

[Orsino]

56. Don't worry about women, just find the right woman...

...with whom it won't matter. She'll understand you without being distracted by occasional ineptness. Mine does.