Would or have you had your son circumcised?

[yurbud]

[eyesroll]

1. I don't have kids, but might have a son eventually.

I'm ambivalent on circumcision.

It's weird -- I grew up Jewish, so circumcision is pretty prevalent in my family. (I'm female and have no brothers; if I did, they woulda been cut.) I don't practice the religion other than culturally.

I do have that whole cultural-guilt thing. I also have that whole "this is really unnecessary surgery" thing. I don't really care for the rabid argument against circumcision -- parallel "in-hospital infant circumcision with painkillers and infection control is exactly like unmedicated clitoredectomy with a sharp rock when the girl is 13" -- but I do understand that I'd never give an infant a non-reconstructive nose job or a tattoo, for example.

I do not buy into the "should look like Daddy" argument. Kids' penises look different from their Daddies' independent of circumcision. Also, if Daddy had an arm amputated, we don't take Junior in to look like him. I know someone who took her 8-year-old adopted-at-6-from-foster-care son in for a cosmetic circumcision, so he'd look like Dad, and I thought that was wrong (in fact, it's what started me thinking about why we bother doing it to infants).

If it was my decision alone, I'd probably forgo circumcision, more because it's unnecessary than anything else.

[Shine]

2. NO way.

We were adamantly against it, b/c in our opinion, there's no medical reason for it and it causes trauma to the infant. He's 12 now and even though he's not exactly like his Dad, it's no biggie...pun intended. :evilgrin:

[Divameow77]

3. I did do it

for both of my boys. I just thought it was cleaner and "nicer" looking. I have never been with an uncircumcised man so it's my opinion that being circumcised is the "norm". My husband agreed with me and I don't think it causes any trauma to the baby, it's not like they remember it.

[datasuspect]

14. ever hear a baby scream when they cut the skin from his penis?

with a sharp knife w/o anethesia?

it's mutilation pure and simple. akin to female genital mutilation prevalent in some parts of the world.

[Beausoir]

20. Nonsense.

My baby slept through the entire thing. I was there.

Stop with the hysterics.

[LeftyMom]

21. That's shock

Babies don't "sleep through" getting a third of thier dick cut off. They sometimes pass out, because it's traumatic.

[Beausoir]

51. LOL. Thank you, Dr. Frist, for that diagnosis.

That is the silliest thing I have read in a long time.

Thanks for the chuckle.

[datasuspect]

91. she's right

that "sleep" is really the infant's nervous system going haywire.

[Beausoir]

109. Prove that to me.

You have any credible proof for what you just posted?

I thought not.

You don't have kids, do yo? I thought not. Any decent mother can certainly tell the difference between peaceful sleep and being non-responsive.

You people are very fixated on the genitalia of little boys. How...odd.

[LeftyMom]

116. There are 17 footnotes at the bottom of this page

I'd advise you to read a few of the articles cited as they explain the evidence that circumcision is detrimental to the neonate's sleep, nursing, behavior and other wellbeing for quite some time after the initial damage is done, even when anaesthetic is used.


http://www.circumstitions.com/Nursing.html


Birth-recovery disrupted:

Dixon et al compared three groups of babies: circumcised with anaesthesia, with a saline injection to simulate the trauma of injection alone, and with no anaesthetic. (They did not leave a control group intact.) After giving the babies a standard test of a variety of behaviours, they concluded:

"This report adds to the growing body of data that indicate that circumcision is a painful procedure that disrupts the course of behavioral recovery following birth."

Sleep disrupted:

Emde et al. found:

"Routine circumcision, done without anesthesia in the newborn nursery was usually followed by prolonged nonrapid eye movement (NREM) sleep. Since this form of sleep has been described as a low point on an arousal continum, we consider its increase to be consistent with a theory of conservation-withdrawal in response to stressful stimulation."

Behaviour disrupted:

Marshall et al. conducted a standard battery of tests (the Brazelton Neonatal Behavioral Assessment Scale, or NBAS) on two groups of babies, one circumcised at two days, the other at three weeks, with the experimenters kept ignorant of the circumcision status of the babies. They found:

"...our results demonstrate tha infants change behaviors after circumcision in about 90 percent of cases."

[khashka]

118. She is right.

And she has the facts to back her up.


Khash.

[Beausoir]

122. CircumSTITIONS.com? Is that Fair and Balanaced? Tee-hee.

You people are hysterical and ignorant.

There is NO difference between the mis-information that you are willingly spreading and the dis-information that people like Bill Frist spread.

The genitalia of my sons is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

[LeftyMom]

127. The website is biased, certainly

the links at the bottom of the page are scientific and unbiased. Read a few. Learn something.

Unneeded and damaging surgery performed on unconsenting newborns is a moral crime and thus all of our business.

[radwriter0555]

124. Yes, it's called "habituating"... where the infant retreats to a state of

detachment from the sensory overload.

[shanti]

36. oh yes, i heard it!

two of mine were circ'd in the doctor's office after their birth, since they were home births. i had to leave the office for the screams:(

[khashka]

79. Ever hear a grown man scream, my dear datasuspect?

There are a lot of men who get cut later in life.


I don't care either way.

But comparing circumcision to female genital muilation is so fucking unbelievably ignorant it takes my breath away. One is the removal of some skin, the other is essentially a cliterodectomy. No comparison.


Khash.

[datasuspect]

92. there's nothing ignorant about genital mutilation

and that's what circumcision and cliterodectomies are.

MUTILATION.

the foreskin, for all intents and purposes, might as well be a "male clitoris."

the majority of the nerve endings in the penis are in the foreskin and the glans loses almost all of its sensitivity as the result of circumcision.

talk about breathtakingly ignorant!

[khashka]

106. Bullshit.

Try studying anatomy. The majority of nerve endings are in the foreskin? No, they are in the glans.

"Male clitoris"? Don't make me laugh. Like I said I don't care either way, but comparing male circumcision to having your clitoris chopped off is a joke and not a very funny one.

Khash.
(Do I have to fight this flame war again?)

[Beausoir]

112. Thank you for interjecting some FACTS into this hysteria. I am with you.

I am OFFENDED by the suggestion that circumcision is any thing like have your clitoris chopped out of your body.

Such ignorance does NOTHING to help the thousands of girls who really need protection.

[LeftyMom]

113. Nor does downplaying the importance of male mutilation do girls any favors

Proponents of FGM claim that both procedures are needed and similarly minor.

http://www.boystoo.com/fgm&mgm.htm

[khashka]

117. I'm not gonna argue with you, LeftyMom

since I think in the end we agree with each other. But I don't think that MGM and FGM are equal.

I would be a really happy camper if we could just forget about any genital mutilation. But there is a huge difference between removing a boy's foreskin and cutting out a girl's clitoris. Neither are right or acceptable. But they are not equal and one is much worse than the other.


Khash.

[LeftyMom]

96. Not just "some skin"

There are many thousands of very sensitive nerve endings in the foreskin and frenulum, hardly analogous to the removal of a bit of elbow meat or something. Both MGM and FGM cause dramatic changes in sexual function and are perpetrated on children too young to consent. While FGM is more routimely damaging (let's not forget that male ciscumcisions in the first world have such risks as trasmission of infection, venereal disease, damage to the future function of the penis, loss of the penis- sometimes resulting in gener reassignment and death) they are in many ways analogous procedures.

[khashka]

107. They are not analogous procedures.

Although your warnings are quite true. I wouldn't have my son circumcized for the very reasons you state. And it's unnecessary.

But it is not comparable to female genital mutilation.


Khash.

[carpetbagger]

114. That's why you use anesthesia.

Of hundreds or thousands of circumcisions I've performed in my life, I've done exactly one without anesthesia, as an intern under the direct order from an attending to not use anesthesia. Needless to say, I made sure whenever possible that the circs got done on his day off.

PS (Edit): I didn't have my son circumcised. For me, it was a balanced decision based on the fact that it is actually a lot more traumatic and difficult for a 5 or 50 year old to be circumcised if problems arise, plus STD data, etc. I'm relatively neutral on the subject.

[GrumpyGreg]

85. My 3 sons were --it was routinely done in the early sixties--in my area

[purr]

4. I had both of my sons do it...

It almost seemed like I didnt have a choice. The nurse came in both times saying 'I'm here to take him to get circumcized'. I never had the choice not to nor did I know I had a choice.

[City Lights]

67. I had to tell the hospital staff not to do it.

The procedure does seem somewhat automatic today. If you don't speak up, they do it. After telling the nurses we didn't want the procedure done, they put a big "NO CIRC" sign on my son's bassinet.

[donheld]

120. "I had both of my sons do it..."

All by themselves???? :o What to cheap for a Doctor? :evilgrin:

[Taverner]

5. I did not circumsize Tavernertoddler

Think about it...

"Cmon...yeah...let me cut off a small piece of skin off of your PENIS"

No brainer for me

[YankeyMCC]

6. I did it

but I regret it and would not do it again and will advise my son to strongly consider not doing it if or when he has a son.

I did it out of cultural inertia I guess and foolish oversight in this one aspect of bringing my son into the world. Since then I've learned more about it (partially as a result of feeling extremely uncomfortable, emotionally and intellectually, after witnessing it) and given it more thought. To late for my son for which I will always carry regret but perhaps I not to late for any potential grandchildren

[pdx_prog]

7. My first son was born when I was 18....

We made the mistake of not getting his done. When he got to be 12 he had difficulty (as most boys do) keeping it clean and it got infected. The doctor strongly suggested having it done.

It's much easier to have it done when they are babies. I felt so sorry for him...:(

[tjdee]

8. No--there's no reason to unless its religious reasons, it's so idiotic

otherwise.

And I'm being very flamous saying that....This is one of those topics where I am completely unreasonable. I'm really a very nice person, all around. :)

It's just so silly, not based on sound science, completely unnecessary, etc. etc. Plus, it hurts a tiny little baby for...what?

[DS1]

9. You left out some combination of above for not having it done

Or, in my answer's case, all of the above reasons for not having it done

[Call Me Wesley]

10. The whole thing is

a lacking matter of personal hygiene and a good part of 'never touch yourself down there.' General circumcision in the US was born in a very prudish aera (1950's), where it was way easier to avoid any hygiene talk with your sons, since it involved something like 'touching down there.' The history of it is quite interesting.

[Book Lover]

11. I *did* not have it done to my child

The men in the Italian/German side of my family have no problems keeping themselves clean, and never did. I don't understand the "boys won't clean themselves there" arguement - what male doesn't like playing-cum-cleaning his member?

[ulysses]

12. have had.

He's a perfectly happy child.

[Maine Mary]

13. I would leave the decision up to 'dad'.

This is totally hypothetical, but had I married my SO- a man I've been with for 16 years, and we had a son togethor, I would urge NO circumcision because it just seems such unnecessary pain to the child. But SO is uncircumcised therefore I understand the pain and embarrassemmet he went through taking showers w/other boys ect. Therefore I'd leave the final decision up to him.

[undeterred]

15. My son's balls were cut off the same day

I got him from the dog pound. No circumcision though. :shrug:

[Left Is Write]

16. My son is uncircumcised.

I saw no reason to mess with what nature gave him. It's not my right to remove a healthy portion of my son's body.

[rbnyc]

56. Ditto. (nt)

[Seabiscuit]

133. Ditto. See below. Way below.

[SmileyBoy]

17. Oh God, here we go...

:popcorn:

Hey, gimme some of that!!

[tjwmason]

18. No chance that I'll have a son - but wouldn't do it.

Aside from religious reasons - and later ones for health, it's incredibly rare over here.

[nykiera]

19. My sons are intact. nt.

[LeftyMom]

22. I would not mutiliate the genitals of my child of either sex.

My son is intact.

[tigereye]

23. it's a common practice

no harm done to my kid as far as I can see. Millions of men have had this done with few or no negative effect from what I can see. If parents choose it, it's their business. If they do not, that is fine too.

[LisaL]

99. Women's circumcision is a common practice in some places

too. Just cause something is common, doesn't mean it should be done.

[Mz Pip]

24. Didn't do it

to either of my sons - now 28 and 26 years old. Seemed sort of barbaric cutting off part of their genitals. As far as the hygiene thing, it wasn't really that hard to teach them how to wash themselves.

Decision was made when I went for one of my last prenatal exams and walked by the nursery when a circumcision was being performed. The doctors had this baby strapped down and he was screaming his lungs out. I thought "No way will they do that to my kid." And they didn't. Back then it was routine and I had to request that they NOT do it.

I dopn't believe that babies are traumatized for life having it done. I just didn't see much point in it.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[realisticphish]

25. I'm 20, and circumcised

I'm not crazy, I don't hate my parents, I don't feel less than whole, I don't have phantom pains. I would probably circumcize my child, but i don't know. I haven't really thought about it, and I would read up on both sides of the issue

So, PLEASE, stop trying to make this a good vs. evil thing. Sometimes, things aren't that big of a deal.

[bliss_eternal]

30. LOL! You sound like my husband.

We watched a show about circumcision. I was swayed and wondered if it was really necessary, after hearing the arguments against it. My husband said exactly what you just did (he's circumcised).

He is FOR doing it, if we ever had a son. :shrug:

[Common Sense Party]

33. I'm circumcised.

Surprisingly,

1) I don't remember a thing.
2) I don't hate my parents.
3) It works. rather well, actually.
4) It's a snap to keep clean. Never once have I had to say: "I just washed my dick and I can't do a thing with it."
5) I'm relatively well-adjusted.

We circumcised our son. Well, not we personally. He did not cry. He may resent us; I don't know. He's autistic, and at 12-years old he cannot speak. Perhaps the circumcision caused his autism?

I'm more concerned about letting my daughters get their ears pierced.

[supernova]

26. I would not do it

if I had a son. There's no logical reason for it, other than religious observance. Men have lived for eons completely natural. The human race survived, nay thrived. Mean aren't in Europe or SA, I think. They're clean, and lead the same lifespans. I don't know why circumcision is all the rage here.

It's just like any other body part as far as cleaning, so I don't buy the hygiene argument either.

[Kali]

27. Other - Did not, mostly because I figured it could be their choice

so I suppose it was partly the mutilation thing. There was a short period where they both were "mad" because they were different, but I think they are pretty much over it now, it was not serious, but I think they picked up on the fact that I was a little uncomfortable with the decision and were just giving Mom shit.

[Dangerously Amused]

28. Okay, so we all believe God is omniscient, EXCEPT

...we really think he was on crack when he designed the penis. So now we get stuck fixing His screw-up all the time.

Thanks for all the extra work, God. :eyes:

[Dave Reynolds]

29. There are no studies that I can cite on this,

but the two penile cancer cases that I have seen were both uncircumcised.

It always pained me that what was removed from those guys was more than what I had to start with...:cry:

[Maddy McCall]

34. Higher rates of UTIs and HIV.

There have been studies done to show the higher rates of UTIs and HIV among uncircumsized males.

[bliss_eternal]

44. Really!? Wow--this is so interesting!

I had NO idea it made any difference.

The DU Lounge can be fun and educational, who knew? LOL! :hi: Hi, Maddy!

[LeftyMom]

97. The studies that showed higher UTI rates

compared a group of primarily premature males (who generally aren't circumcised due to thier fragility) with a group of primarily full term circumsised males. As prematurity increases the risk of UTI, the results were unsurprising, but utterly useless.

In any case, females have much higher UTI rates, but nobody suggests labia trimming or clitoridectomy as treatment or prevention (and if they did, they'd face jail time.) We give them antibiotics, because society is much more civilized in it's treatment of young girls.

[LeftyMom]

47. Men are more likely to get breast cancer than penile cancer

It's that rare.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_2X_Can_penile_cancer_be_prevented_35.asp

"Most public health researchers believe that the penile cancer risk among uncircumcised men without known risk factors living in the United States is extremely low. The current consensus of most experts is that circumcision should not be recommended as a prevention strategy for penile cancer."

[Dave Reynolds]

49. That's probably why in 14 years in this field

I have seen it only twice. Never saw breast cancer in a male yet, but plenty of gynecomastia.

[NMMNG]

31. I used to be adamantly opposed to circumcision

I saw it as a barbaric practice with no practical or health related purposes. However emerging research is showing that circumcision might actually be helpful in reducing the transmission of numerous diseases, including AIDS:

Research: Male Circumcision and HIV Prevention

Circumcision Online News

Male Circumcision Cuts AIDS Risk

Circumcision Cuts HIV Risk

[radwriter0555]

39. Maybe men should stop engaging in activities that expose them to AIDS...

then they'd have no chance of contracting it.

[NMMNG]

41. Of course abstinence is 100% foolproof

as a means of preventing STDs and sexually transmitted AIDS, but, realistically, how many men are going to be celibate for life?

[radwriter0555]

50. There is no need to be abstinent, just a need for not fucking risky

partners without a care in the world.

When men stop putting their need for sex before their need to survive, they might live a bit longer.

[Redstone]

32. Of course. Both of them.

Redstone

[shanti]

35. all four of my sons were circ'd

just so they would "look like daddy", but if it had been my decision, i'd leave them uncut. unfortunately, i was overruled.

[kittykitty]

37. 40 years ago it was hardly an issue. We were young and the Dr. said we

should so he would look like his father. So of course the 2nd one was, too. But our grandson isn't. 40 years ago, who knew?

[radwriter0555]

38. Circumcision is mutilation based on archaic religious myths, nothing

more.. it's bizarre and sickening to me that humans still practice such a needless and barbaric tradition in this day and age.

Luckily MOST of the world doesn't do it anymore. Just the americans.

[Rabrrrrrr]

40. I would do it, but I'd have a mohel do it.

THEY know what they're doing.

Doctors don't perform anywhere near the number of circumcisions that Mohellim do.

And when I say I'd get a Mohel, I mean, I'd get an OLD Mohel (but not so old he was shaky and had bad vision).

[CanuckAmok]

42. Oh, for the love of all things holy...not THIS again!

Okay, let me set the record straight:

I was circumscised as a sexually active adult (IIRC, I was 20).

Why?

Because my foreskin was too small for my erect penis (which is a common ailment), and it would get little invisible tears which hurt like paper cuts.

Not to mention they were breaks in the skin, which could lead to transmission of STDs.

Now, before everyone goes off half-cocked (if you'll pardon the expression), particularly the same DU women who like to chime in on this subject but have absolutely NO authority to do so, let me say that sex is more enjoyable without a foreskin. Blah blah blah nerve endings, etc, I know. But although that may be a valid scientific argument against circumscision, I can say, from personal experience, that sex is MORE enjoyable post-circumscision.

It's also easier to keep everything clean, and, IMHO, it looks nicer.

It's not the same as genital mutilation, particularly female castration, although someone will (or already has) drawn that parallel on this thread.

It's no more mutilation than an apendectomy; if something is useless or faulty, get rid of it.

And, as the only kid in my elementary school gym class who wasn't circumscised, I can say that there's alot to be said for genital conformity during those impressionable years.

[bliss_eternal]

43. Wow--

I hadn't read this story before and didn't know this about you--thanks for sharing!

What you went through prior sounds so painful--I'm sorry you went through that.

Not being a guy, I can't really weigh in on the issue from that perspective. But it's cool to learn this from one with your experience and perspective. Gives me some insight, of the difference.

[CanuckAmok]

46. The procedure wasn't painful at all.

I'm not advocating 'ritual' circumscision; I'm talkin' modern surgical procedure under a general, here.

There was some minor discomfort for a few days, but nothing that couldn't be overcome by a bag of frozen peas down the ol' pants.

Plus, it got me off active duty for a month, which was nothing to sneeze at.

[bliss_eternal]

48. That's really incredible--

I would expect such a procedure would be painful. Considering what you were experiencing prior, it sounds like it was worthwhile for you to go through the minor discomfort.

I was actually surprised the first time I saw a program questioning whether circumcisions should be performed or not. I'm not sure that I understand why this is something that upsets people--to each his own. I'm not a boy and don't have a son, so I don't feel I really get an opinion about this.

I don't like the fact that so many men want to tell me (and other women) what we should do with our bodies--I'm not going to go there.

[imperialismispasse]

52. Gotta say Im glad you chimed in

Seems like most of the people against circumcision are women who wouldnt have to live with an uncut dick afterward. I kind of feel sorry for their sons. Im cut and Im glad, like you said, I kind of wanted to look like everybody else in the locker room in high school and also most women havent been with a lot of uncut men so I dont want them pointing like What is that? when they see it for the first time.

[Misunderestimator]

65. I don't get that angle.... the locker room.

It's like the binding of girls' feet in Japan. I'm sure that the first girls who did not have tiny little deformed feet were thought to be different among the other children as well. Doesn't exactly make an argument for mutilating a child, just so that they can look the same as the other children. :shrug:

[imperialismispasse]

68. You never felt pressure to not be different?

Are you American? Im not trying to be smart, Im honestly asking. If your European that might be why. Its very strong pressure to fit in in this country.

[Misunderestimator]

69. Yes, it's strong pressure... but that still doesn't justify cutting the...

foreskin off an infant's penis, just so that he can fit in. :shrug: The more people who don't do it, the easier it will be to fit in, and this won't even BE an issue.

[imperialismispasse]

70. Did you read the post up further in the thread

about the lady who didn't circumcize her son and then he got an infection and they had to do it at 12 years old? That right there is enough reason for me to have my son circumcized when he wont remember it. That woman said she felt so sorry for her son.

As far as your point I guess I can understand what your saying about fitting in being variable with what society thinks is acceptible but I would also say that who wants to be in the forefront of that trend? Its the same reason I would name my son John or James or some regular name. Why handicap them early when life is hard enough?

[Misunderestimator]

72. So, do it at 12... not as an infant.

There are also horror stories about bad circumcisions.

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weeklyquestion/a/05_pnl_adhesion.htm
http://www.infocirc.org/vice.htm

"6. The more immediate hazards of circumcision include infection
which may be minor, or which could lead to gangrene or
general sepsis, severe haemorrhage, mutilative deformity of
the penis, or rarely, a procedural misadventure requiring
partial amputation of the penis."

http://www.cirp.org/pages/riley/cps1


And if you want to name your son John or James just so that he can fit in... then you're right... we're on a different wavelength here entirely.

[imperialismispasse]

75. Not so that he can fit in. So that he doesn't stand out negatively.

If my son decides he is kind of a rock star, ha ha, and wants to be in the center of attention and be different and have that attention on him, then thats his choice. He is welcome to do that and I will support whatever he wants to do. If he wants to change his name when hes 12 to Floogeldy Jones, then thats cool with me. But not all kids want to stand out. Some would like to blend in but they cant because their parents named them Tumbleweed or something.

To respond to your point about doing it at 12, supposedly its extremely painful once the penis has matured to its full (or almost full) size. My nephew had his done at his bris (his mom is Jewish) and he slept before, during, and after the whole thing. There was nothing to it.

[Misunderestimator]

77. It's extremely painful to an infant too...

just because the infant won't remember it does not mean that it is not traumatic.

If you would give your son the choice to be what he wants to be when he grows up... why would you make THIS incredibly important decision for him?

[imperialismispasse]

80. Message inside

1. I honestly dont think its that important of a decision. Im not trying to belittle something that you obviously feel strongly about but it hasnt affected my life at all and not to be rude but, I AM a guy (am I right in thinking that you are female?).

2. How can something be traumatic if you cant remember it?

[Misunderestimator]

81. I don't feel strongly about circumcision really... just that you would

say that it should be done to fit in. That's what I feel strongly about. Conformity is not something I'm very impressed by.

And yes, I figured you were a guy, and I also assume you do not have children. Right?

Answering 2... uh... are you serious?

[imperialismispasse]

82. No children yet, Im youngish, but I have thought about it

Who knows maybe Ill feel different when I see my son for the first time, you never know until your in the situation.

I was serious about #2, am I missing something? (It wouldnt be the first time, ha ha!) If you have no memory of something, I mean no conscious or unconscious memory of something, how can it hurt you?

I do agree about conformity even though it may not seem like it from what I said (I am not very good at expressing myself writing, I am better speaking). My point was more about trying not to handicap my kids. I would never squelch (is that a word?) individuality in them. In fact Im weird in some ways and Id kind of like it if they were too. :)

[Misunderestimator]

83. Answering number 2...

sort of.... imagine a child growing up in an abusive household. The child's self-protectiveness causes him to forget specific instances of abuse as he grows older. Many adults have no recollection of abuse in their childhood, or only sketchy memories. Just because something is not remembered does not mean that it is not harmful.

And thanks for the clarification on the issue of conformity. I still am of the opinion that operating on an infant just so that he would not be "handicapped" socially, is an irresponsible thing to do. If there are medical reasons, in a specific circumstance, then by all means... go for it. Would you want to have rhinoplasty done on an infant (if that was even possible.... so just for the sake of argument) simply because you saw that he had an enormous nose, and you were afraid he wouldn't fit in?

[imperialismispasse]

86. I do see your point

I guess we will disagree but politely. Its nice that we could talk about it and have different opinions but not be rude. Most people on this website are really polite, I like that.

Happy holidays again.

[CanuckAmok]

128. What about ear-pinning?

It's pretty commonplace on infants/toddlers who will have abnormally-shaped ears.

Their hearing is seldom handicapped by such a deformity, but I'm sure most parents would want their kids growing up without ears like Alfred E. Newman's.

I guess I just don't see where the "mutilation" comes in, I guess. I understand, however, some people's willingness (eagerness?) to equate circumscision with (male or female) castration, and similar barbarism.

The more I read about circumscision's positive effect on hygeine and the recent findings on cut men in South Africa being 60% less likely to contract HIV from an HIV infected female sex partner, the more I am in favour of it.

My theory, re the STD transmission: In my case, there was an acute disparity between the size of my foreskin and the rest of me. The "paper-cut" like tearing was invisible but painful. I imagine that many more men have similar, yet less noticeable tearing. I mean, every time the foreskin is pulled-back, it's being stretched. something like even slightly dry skin or chafing could lead to tiny breaks in the skin, which are perfect for STD transmission.

[Misunderestimator]

129. Can you send me a link to that survey in South Africa...

You keep mentioning that one survey, but I have seen plenty more data against circumcision. As for HIV infection... condoms would be just as effective on a circumcised penis as on an uncircumcised one. A study based on men having unprotected sex is not a very responsible one. I don't buy it.

I didn't compare circumcision to clitorectomies or castrations. You'll have to have that discussion with whoever did. :shrug:

I completely sympathize with your situation, and I'm glad that you were able to correct it with circumcision. Other men who have the same issues with their foreskin can also elect to have the operation. Unnecessary surgery on an infant, no matter how small, makes no sense... we should go ahead and remove the appendix and tonsils while we're at it. Always a potential for problems later on with those.

[CanuckAmok]

134. I think I read it in a magazine (Jan. Harper's, possibly??).

I'll have to see if I can remember where I saw it.

I know you're being glib, but, yes, I do think we should remove the tonsils (and adenoids) as soon as possible, even when they're not acting up. Have you ever had accute tonsilitis as a child? I have. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and it can be prevented by pre-emptive removal.

And you never answered my question. What about ear-pinning? "wine-spot" removal?

[CanuckAmok]

121. Just an aside:

A South African study states that circumscised men are 60% less likely to contract the HIV virus through genital intercourse with an infected woman. I didn't read the whole article, but it bears some close examination.

That in itself, if true, would justify circumscision, as far as I'm concerned.

[imperialismispasse]

76. To reply to what you added on your edit

I guess we could post equal numbers of links about botched circumcisions and how being uncircumcized gives you higher risk for STDs, especially AIDS. Theyre already in this thread. I dont mind if someone else wants to circumcize their son and I wouldnt denigrate your opinion. This is just mine.

Happy holidays.

[Misunderestimator]

78. Yes, indeed. Happy Holidays.

I hope your son decides that he likes your choice.

[LisaL]

100. Yep, I saw that sad, sad story on a Discovery channel.

The mother had twin boys, they were circumcised. The machine malfunctioned on one, he was permanently maimed. The parents raised him as a girl, but it didn't help. He eventually killed himself.

[bliss_eternal]

103. So am I...

It's great to have his perspective on this issue, as one that has lived with and now without foreskin. As a woman w/out sons (or children) and not having a penis--I kind of don't think I get to have an opinion. LOL!

I'd feel a bit hypocritical, after saying men shouldn't have an opinion regarding what I do with my ovaries, uterus, etc. LOL!

:hi:

Interesting discussion--really glad to have read this perspective though!

[gollygee]

57. You might not be a good example

if you had a problem like that, of COURSE sex was better after your foreskin was gone.

[rbnyc]

58. It's got to be a case-by-case thing that involves choice.

I don't agree with having any medical intervention unless there's a compelling reason to do so. Sounds like you made your case.

There's no way I could make such a case for my son. His foreskin may be just the right size for him. He may love it. I don't know. And I'm not going to subject him to any medical procedure unless there's a reason for it that outweighs any pain or risk.

Pretty simple.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

64. Your post is a strong argument for leaving it up to the male when he

is at an age to make a decision for himself...even at adolescence

[bridgit]

66. it's you, it's really really you you...

:hi: :kick:

[bridgit]

45. other = did not have...

[Misunderestimator]

53. Is that yours? She's beautiful!

[bridgit]

54. i'm afraid my Robert would only disappoint you...'sister'...

http://www.faces.net/askmarge.asp

[Misunderestimator]

55. Damn... you lost me...

again :D Oh wait... it's a boy! :D My apologies... :) Very cute boy! :thumbsup:

That's some funny site. :rofl: "Enter Marge" alone cracks me up. :rofl:

[bridgit]

59. oh honey, it doesn't take allot to leave you behind...

:7 i just thought you were a supporter of the g&l community :shrug: i'm serious, why on earth, or in heaven for that matter, would i circumcise my daughter :eyes:

:rofl: Marge is a hoot though, if you're ever up this way pm me we'll stop over for drinks, he doesn't do the drag thing (unless he wants to) since he got his new job running headhunters but he's ever-cool

oh and yes...my Robert is beautiful

[Misunderestimator]

60. HAHAHAHA!!!

Damn... thanks for that vote of confidence! ;)

As for why I thought it was a girl... You said "did not have"... I assumed you meant you didn't have a boy. Poor reading comprehension on my part. :pals:

[bridgit]

61. sweety i still love you in spite of me being a dumb-ass you know that...

:hug:

[Misunderestimator]

63. And bridgit... you have definitely grown on me.

Even if I do have to read your posts a few times to get it. ;) :hug: :pals:

[Cathyclysmic]

62. no...

No other profound insights into this issue, just no.

[MrSlayer]

71. Yes, of course.

I've had it done, my son had it done. We're both fine, thanks.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

73. Haven't thought about it much

I'm circumcised and I certainly don't feel traumatized by it.

[DanCa]

74. No it's a horrible thing for a guy to do to another guy :D Just kidding.

[bleedingheart]

84. My son was circumcized and my daughter....

had her ears pierced when she was 3 mos old...would have done it earlier but she was in the NICU and that wasn't the priority at the time....

[bliss_eternal]

104. I'm sorry

that your daughter was (ever) in NICU. Glad she's better... :hug:

[Amaya]

87. no, my son is not circumcised

there is no need for it.

[datasuspect]

93. unless you're a 19th century anti-masturbation crusader

ugh.

[China_cat]

88. No option for 'had no choice in the matter'

for my first 2 sons. The 'consent' form you had to sign before they'd let you into the hospital contained the provision that you were agreeing to have circumcision performed in the event of a male child. The only concession they'd make was for Jewish babies...then they'd call in a mohel to do it. But you just flatly had no choice in the matter whatever. My third son was not circumcized. He was 6 weeks premature and the hospital considered it too big a risk.

[yurbud]

89. what part of country was this?

[China_cat]

90. Western PA for the first

Tampa for the second. Back to Pgh for the 3rd.

Better than 40 years ago for the first 2.

[karlrschneider]

94. I worked my way through college in the circumcision ward. $5 an hour

plus tips.










:evilgrin:

[tenshi816]

95. I have two sons, 14 and 9,

and neither one is circumcised, nor is my husband. It's not automatically done in the UK.

[LisaL]

98. It actually is not done in many other countries.

I am not sure why it seems to be so prevalent in US.

[lovelaureng]

101. If I had a son,

I would spare the little guy the pain. No pun intended.

[Bzzzz]

102. 28 years ago...

at 18 years of age, I was told it was the right thing to do...now, I'm not so sure. I'm now remarried and my husband is not circumcised and has never suffered any repercussions. I remember hearing my son crying during the circumcision and I was told at that time that he felt nothing...it was just the trauma of being fastened down on a 'surf board' and the bright light in his eyes. LIARS!!!

[aclog]

105. This isn't a defence but...

if you have it done as an adult, a GP told me it leaves a scar and "doesn't look right"

[DerekG]

108. I find the "she'll think it looks weird" line curious

My apologies, this is about as ribald as I'll ever get, but fellas: If she's willing to be penetrated by something that looks like a worm, she probably shouldn't concern herself with aesthetics.

You're already exchanging bodily fluids...let's not play the "it looks icky" game.

On edit: And if she loves you, why on earth would she care?

[aclog]

110. No I took his comment

to mean that it won't look right to the doctor in the unfortunate case that he ever has to observe/handle your dick :D

GP = general practitioner

I could care less what she thinks lol

[ForrestGump]

115. Worm?

Anaconda, please.

[radwriter0555]

135. I think a cut penis looks wierd, compared to an uncut penis. I prefer the

uncut for that loving feeling, ahem.

As a woman of course. And with a husband who hasn't been "trimmed."

How about this: "Circumcision makes your dick smaller?"

[Beausoir]

111. I don't get why people are so curious about the genitals of little boys.

What business is it of yours? Or anyone's?

Why fixate on something that is a personal and private matter?

I find the whole thing really scary.

So many ill-informed hysterical people running around thinking about the penis of my son.

[radwriter0555]

125. Interesting that you find that the welfare of y our son and milliions of

other children un-important... and that for unknown reasons, you're concerned that we're thinking about your child's genitals in an allegedly sexual nature.. what an odd implication, but perhaps you're new around here, so let me clear this up for you.

The concern here is about an archaic mutilation ritual that is still performed in this allegedly modern society. Your innuendo that the discussion is of a sexual nature is in and of itself very offensive, and you should be ashamed.

You see, people in this particular forum are capable of discussing human biological and anatomical issues without injecting any sort of sexuality or deviation into it.

Your insinuation is... morbid at best and suspicious and potentially deviant at its worst.

Your introspection should begin with yourself.

[Beausoir]

130. Nice hysteria.

Please..stop over reaching. Call me a deviant makes you look out of control.


Simply put..the genitalia of my little boys is NONE of your business. Why should I be ashamed of that? It is NONE. OF. YOUR. BUSINESS. You don't get to talk about their penises. PERIOD.

Sorry about that...and if that makes me a deviant in your eyes, I'll wear the label with pride.

It was your choice to introduce sexuality into this discussion.

I'm simply not interested in your ponderings about their genitals. Nor am I interested in the hysterical drooling rants, devoid of ANY factual information, by the people in this thread who seem fixated on infant penis issues.

I find it odd and more than a little creepy. In fact, I find it A LOT creepy and I need to get out of this thread and shake off the willies you all are giving me.

And..just FYI..I've been here quite awhile.

Merry Christmas.

[LisaL]

131. No one is talking about your son, except for you.

Think about that. And while you are at it, maybe you should have your head examined.

[hickman1937]

119. It was my uncircumcised husband that insisted that it be done

with our son. :shrug:
edit for crappy spelling

[Fox Mulder]

123. If I had a son someday...

No, I would NOT do it.

It's best for him to choose later on in his life if he wants one or not.

[LWolf]

126. Other.

My 2 sons are circumcised for two simple reasons:

As an only child of a single mother with no other family members at all, let alone male family members, I was completely ignorant of any pros or cons. I'd seen very few penises up to that point, and they were all circumcised. The boys and men seemed to function just fine.

The boys' father made the choice. He was circumcised, he wanted his sons "like him," and he thought it was "cleaner." He thought the decision was a male thing, and I let him make it.

My only grandchild, a boy, is not circumcised. I didn't ask why.

[Seabiscuit]

132. I have not and would not because of health reasons

Ask any pediatrician - they advise against it, and especially against "bris parties", unless you're fixated on it for religious reasons, then they just assume you're an idiot and avoid the subject like an Old Testatment plague.