The Death Penalty. Would you make an exception?

[Crazy Guggenheim]

So, what exceptions if any?

[Oeditpus Rex]

1. I really don't see the point

of keeping alive someone like Charles Manson — a true psychopath/sociopath who offers nothing of benefit to society except maybe more bad lyrics.

But then, it's not for me to judge.

[Dave Reynolds]

2. I don't have a vote, but

I have this: :popcorn:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

3. Thanks for bringing some!

:popcorn:

[ismnotwasm]

4. Extra butter

:popcorn:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

8. Did you bring any salt?

[flvegan]

5. You should post this in GD. I don't think folks there have an opinion

on it yet.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

12. People in The Lounge have an opinion on the DP.

[flvegan]

16. Huh?

It was a joke. It seems like every thread over there is DP this or DP that.

I know folks here have an opinion on it.

Um, whatever.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

19. LOL. I know, buddy.

[LaurenG]

6. No exceptions-I just had a conversation with a guy at work

His brother was murdered and he does not support the death penalty, even for his brothers killer. I was very proud of him when he said it was because the only reason to kill a murderer would be for vengeance and what will that get you but more of the same.

[skygazer]

7. No exceptions

I have no illusions about people like Manson. Or Bundy. Or my ex husband. They're not going to be "rehabilitated", they're not going to see the light and we have to pay for them to live out their lives which does stick in my craw a bit.

But I cannot bring myself to believe that anyone has the right to take a life. I'm always reminded of the exchange in Lord of the Rings (the book) when Frodo says that Gollum "deserved to die." And Gandalf replies, "Deserves? Perhaps. But many who die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Don't be so quick to hand out death in judgment."

I just can't believe it's my place, or any human being's place, to take another's life.

[GirlinContempt]

32. "we have to pay for them to live out their lives"

Actually, getting someone to the point of execution is far more expensive 99.9999999999999999999% of the time.
In fact, I haven't heard about a case where it was cheaper since uhm, people would just get one trial and then hanged/beheaded.

On edit, just to be clear, I did get that you were against the DP, just sayin' is all :)

[skygazer]

33. Excellent point

:toast:

[northzax]

9. any murder

who are we to say that some murders are more heinous than others? that some victims are more sympathetic than others? seriously. Why introduce the possibility of of bias against the defendant into the system? if you kill someone, and are convicted of it, you die. Perfectly fair.

[GirlinContempt]

20. In that case, though

who are we to say that some thefts are worse than others? Some vandalism? pick ANY crime.
Jeeze even people thousands of years ago recognized shades of grey.

[northzax]

28. so what, in your opinion, is the moral difference

between life sentence, without parole, and an actively imposed death sentence? what is the real difference between sequestering someone from society until they die form some random cause and sequestering them from society until such a time as the State kills them?

[GirlinContempt]

29. The difference is

for starters, the most obvious one, is that if new evidence comes to light, or new technologies to prove or disprove cases, the person is alive to be pardoned. And this happens.

The other is plain and simple:
I don't believe the government should have the right to kill it's citizens. Period. I think that it goes beyond the governments function and purpose, and that brings up the other difference. Locking someone away is something that is done for a large number of crimes, and is at this time the most acceptable way of dealing with people who break the law. Killing someone is in a totally different category.

[northzax]

30. your first arguement proves the point

if we're going to execute anyone, then there is always that chance, isn't there? who can know?

if killing someone is, in fact, in a different category from other crimes, then obviously, all killings should be treated the same way. why allow for the possiblity of bias by having some killers face different types of death sentences? one a protracted one, the other faster? Why allow the possiblity that black men will get death for killing white women, but white men won't get it for killing black women? If any killer deserves a state administered death sentence, they all do. no one has yet explained to me the real difference.

It is my opinion that if any convict deserves a state administered death sentence, that anyone who cannot be rehabilitated and reontroduced into society should get that same penalty. 60 years in a small cell versus death? what's the difference? one makes us feel 'humane" and the other doesn't?

[GirlinContempt]

31. See, and I don't think ANY murderer should be

put to death. #1 above all others because I don't think that a government should have the right to kill it's citizens.

"60 years in a small cell versus death? what's the difference? one makes us feel 'humane" and the other doesn't?"

The difference is one is irreversible, the other isn't. 'Humane' may or may not be a factor, but the irreversibly of it IS. Period.

"If any killer deserves a state administered death sentence" None do.

If we can hypothesize that killing someone is in a different category from other crimes, we should also be able to see that killing the killer is in a different category from locking them up for the same reasons.

[sundog]

10. no dp at all

[CaliforniaPeggy]

11. My better self does not believe in the death penalty. NO exceptions.

Of course, my more revengeful self does believe in it.

However, most western, civilized nations do NOT have the death penalty.

I believe that no nation or person has the right to put to death another person, with some exceptions: REAL war or national self defense.

I believe that killing otherwise makes us no better than the person who we want to punish for having killed someone, or tortured or raped, or whatever they did to someone else.

You talk about revenge.....revenge is not a valid reason for having the death penalty. The state should be above revenge. It should be better than revenge.

We really need to try to find out what makes people commit the horrendous crimes for which we now use the death penalty, and correct those conditions.

YOu know, the old "ounce of prevention."

Just my 2 cents.....

[LeftyMom]

13. Absolutely none nt

[terrya]

14. No exceptions whatsoever. Not even Manson. Not even Jeffrey Dahmer.

The death penalty is wrong under any circumstances.

[SeattleGirl]

15. No exceptions.

One of my two favorite uncles was murdered some years ago, and when they caught the men who did it, the thought of the death penalty for them never ever entered my mind. I just can't get behind it. If someone murders somebody, stick them in prison for life, meaning the rest of their days, not "life" as in "25 years".

By the way, did you know that when someone dies by whatever death penalty method a particular state uses, the cause of death is listed as "Homicide"?

[Crazy Guggenheim]

17. Interesting. I didn't know that.

By the way, did you know that when someone dies by whatever death penalty method a particular state uses, the cause of death is listed as "Homicide"?

[SeattleGirl]

21. I watched a documentary MSNBC did on it

And they showed the death certificate after the person died, and "Homicide" was what it said. And you know, that's exactly what it is: state sanctioned murder.

[Anita Garcia]

26. and that's interesting

no dp.
No homicide by the Government.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

27. Profound. Profound ........

:popcorn:

[BikeWriter]

18. Not while juries are fallable and even cops can lie.

[redqueen]

22. No DP, no exceptions.

I like the results so far. Very civilized. :D

[Crazy Guggenheim]

24. I know. I was going to say it's 85% is against with no exceptions.

[tuvor]

23. I can never say never.

I'm opposed to it, but I can't promise I always will be.

(Didn't vote as there was no appropriate choice.)

[xmas74]

25. A childhood friend was murdered by a serial killer

yet I'm still anti-DP. I never forgave him but I still can't be a part of his death.
http://www.nwf.org/wildlife/forensicentomology.cfm (my friend)

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/row/colemana.htm

[Blue-Jay]

34. YAY! Another death Penalty thread!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[victim]

35. Fuck that

It would be beyond me to forgive some motherfucker in a situationlike that. They might not get the DP though because I'd get them first...

[Crazy Guggenheim]

36. Welcome to DU BTW.

:popcorn:

[Reciprocity]

37. Child killers mandatory with exceptions.

I do believe these words.
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
Gandalf

The exceptions. With circumstances to be taken into account.
accidents
mental illness
neglect
religion
There's more I haven though of I'm sure.

Also some of these folks need to serve time while other set free.

[mvd]

38. No

If I had my way, there would be no DP. I've been avoiding the Tookie threads because I'm a mod and posts make me angry, so this is a good place to share my feelings. I used to be for it for child killers and terrorists, but I became consistent in my opposition. I'm against it for moral reasons, because of a lack of closure for people who knew the victims, and because of an imperfect system that will never be perfect enough for the DP. I am active in opposition and tent e-mails to the Governator, but in the case of child killers and mass murderers, I am still opposed to executing - but can't whip up much emotion.