This is, by far, the oddest question I've had to ask... (PG13)

[Deja Q]

There is a stereotype afoot that heterosexual men looooove watching two women being together in bed. (okey dokey, whatever...)

So I must pose the question; is there a stereotype regarding women enjoying watching two men in bed?

:shrug:



Added rating to be safe.

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. I don't think so. I think men tend to be more visual than women...

Give me a well written passage (no matter who is involved) over a video anyday. :hi:

[NNadir]

26. We are.

It's been something of a disagreement between my wife and I.

I'm a lights on kind of person - she lights off.

In her defense I must say she is beautiful and I am as ugly as sin.

[ScreamingMeemie]

73. Hahaha!

I bet she thinks not! :hi:

[Wetzelbill]

40. I'm a writer

so, should I PM you or what? :evilgrin:

Just kidding! :)

But, there is nothing quite like the beauty of the written word. :)

[ScreamingMeemie]

74. PM box is always open!

And I agree! :hi:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

85. LOL... As a writer I have to agree.

:D :D

[purr]

2. I've always wondered that myself....

interesting question.

[LeftyMom]

3. Some women are into it but it's not a stereotype that I know of

Personally I'm neither turned on nor off by the prospect.

[TimeChaser]

4. Yaoi is always fun

[Chovexani]

11. OMG ZACK/CLOUD

I knew there was a reason I loved you. :loveya:

[TimeChaser]

60. Anything with Zack makes me happy

Zack... :loveya:

I was going to post CidxVincent (And why is VincentxCid so hard to find? ;_;), but the pictures I have are... a little much for DU

[Chovexani]

63. Oh I feel your pain

I'm a Cloud/Vincent gal myself and the few times I seem them paired together, Cloud is always, ALWAYS weepy uke from hell (btw, that's why I despise CidxVincent...people seem to forget he was a Turk for crying out loud). I don't really see a seme/uke thing with them, which makes my life difficult. :(

But, all this is just the FF7 Table of Slashy Relativity at work. I wish I could take credit for this, because it's hilarious as hell, but all credit goes to Firefly99 for it. BTW, she hasn't seen Advent Children yet, so none of the SHM are on the chart...but I would humbly stick Kadaj at the very bottom (no pun intended), because people even make Cloud his seme. Cloud, who is the bitch of everyone.
----------

The FF7 Table of Slashy Relativity.

How to use the table.


A character will top any character BELOW them in the list.

A character will bottom any character ABOVE them in the list.

Therefore, those at the top of the list are most often BigBadSeme, and those at the bottom are usually femmeuke.

Characters not included on the table (e.g. Barret, Rude, Palmer) are not written about by fanits (and, if they are, they're definately not found in a pairing with anyone) and so are usually written properly. In good slash writing, there is no BigBadSeme/FemmeUke dynamic, and so these characters cannot be included on the list.

Using this list, it is possible to come up with any crack pairing and see how a fanit might write it. (e.g. Your crack is ReevexHojo, so scan the list. Reeve is further down the table than Hojo, so Hojo would top.)

Towards the bottom of the list, the difference in ukeosity is rather negligable, so anomalies are more common down there. However, the general pattern seems to fit.

----------------

Hojo - in italics, because he is generally used as a deus ex machina rapist in order to make someone run into their lover's arms. Unless Vincent is involved, he is usually not part of the main pairing, thus putting him at an unfairly high position on the list. Poor Hojo.

Chaos - Pointed out by arliona. Again, in italics, as he's only ever used as a rapist. (Hojo is, however, capable of subduing him and therefore remains Top Dog.)

Sephiroth - Since he is the game's main villain, I can let him off. He also has a massive, massive god complex and likes to wave it around at all occasions. Arrogant and dominating, he is, of course, the fanit's typical Ebil!Seme.

Rufus - Again, this one makes lots of sense, because Rufus is the President of the World, spoilt, arrogant and sulky.

Cid - Loud, arrogant and cocky. A chain-smoker, which automatically makes him seme in the world of badfic. (Although if you chose to use it as a rather more literal phallic symbol...)

Zack - One of the strongest SOLDIERs. Cheerful and easygoing, but with a strong heroic streak and a good sense of justice. It makes sense, but why is he so far up the chart when the easily stronger Cloud is so low down? Is it because of Cloud's weakness as a teenager?

Tseng - By now we're getting to the uke stage. Tseng is cold, focused on his job, but human all the same. Sure, you can bring out that human streak, but I doubt he'd be weeping 'lachyrimal tears' from his 'deliciously feminine eyes'.

Reno - Poor old Reno gets a bad rap in fanfiction. In the game he was cool and arrogant but with a sense of fun and a fair amount of decency - he only killed as part of his job, and refuses to when off duty (although that could be his excuse for thanking the others, or just plain laziness....) and has a sense of honour, too. Yet in fanfiction he's always either a depthless arrogant jerk I'd like to strangle, a miserable drama queen I'd like to strangle, or an angst-filled slum dweller with a prostitute mother and a dead sister who I would ALSO love a chance to strangle. In slash fic, however, he tends to graduate towards the middle persona.

I'm a big RenoxCloud fan, since I've only read two RenoxCloud fics and both of them were ZOMGLES AWESOME. In both, Reno brought out the side of Cloud normally hugely underepresented in fanfiction - the strong, powerful soldier-side. Please write more RenoxCloud, my lovely little fandom. Please. (And write some more CloudxBarret while you're at it. At least there was lots of subtext between those two.)

------At this point, the difference becomes somewhat negligable, but still visible----

Cloud - This is odd, because Cloud's personality is very strong and occasionally somewhat overbearing. He is also the main character of the game, a talented and unbelievably strong warrior, and often appears wise beyond his years. However, he's down there with the fandom's Most Ukeish.

Vincent - Again, odd. Vincent is confident and sure of himself. What really gets me down is how canon facts are warped heavily to go with his newfound ukeishness - really, really obvious traits, such as his height, which is often reduced from six foot two to five foot six.

Reeve - Fanit Reeve is always bright, perky, childish and obsessed with cats. So, quite simply, he's always the uke. No matter what.
http://www.livejournal.com/community/fanficrants/1222967.html

[TimeChaser]

78. Ah, so true

But the worst thing is in doujinshi when they make Cloud look like a 12 yr old with big shoujo eyes. X(

Did I mention that my boyfriend's going to be cosplaying Vincent soon? He's a little frightened by yaoi, but he should be glad that I like seme!Vincent :rofl:

[Chovexani]

83. Oh god I hate 12 yo Cloud

I hate DJs that make Seph and/or Vincent look like Michael Jackson. :puke:

Yay for cosplaying boyfriends! I have a very crack cosplay concept that my BF has signed onto. He's going to be Pimpin' Sephiroth and I'm going to be Cloud in drag as a Honeybee Inn girl...yeah, I was huffing glue at the time. :crazy: It's funny, he actually confessed his bisexuality to me after reading an original yaoi fic of mine. Which is like the ultimate compliment to me...my fic is so hot it blows off closet doors! The problem is I've created a monster, now he's always pestering me for fic.

We have a very odd relationship.

[TimeChaser]

84. Ugh, MJ Vincent

I've seen some of that :puke:

If you do that cosplay, you MUST send me pictures! That just sounds great XD

My boyfriend has said he wants to cosplay Cloud someday. I asked him if he knew what that meant. "You're going to be Aeris?" "Nooooo.... Sephiroth! *Evil laughter*"

Oh, and if you noticed the Squall who was with me at Otakon, that was him :)

[MiniMandaRuth]

35. Afternoon, TimeChaser!

EEE!!! My slash need for today is done! :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7

[TimeChaser]

57. Heehee

Glad to be of service :D

[lakemonster11]

5. It's not a stereotype,

in fact most people seem to be ignorant of the phenomenon, but many women are turned on by the idea (if not the visual) of two men together.

Just google "slash" and see what you get.

[CanuckAmok]

8. I'd have to be pretty hammered:

[lakemonster11]

17. LOL

I meant something more like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_fiction

[Deja Q]

23. OMG! Michael Jackson put back the Diana Ross hair and fixed his skin tone?

:puke:

(fixed the skin tone to make it fully caucasian rather than bleached ghost?)

[skygazer]

6. No, I don't believe so

As a matter of fact, for most heteros of either sex, the reaction I've gotten when I've asked that same question (because I tend to wonder things like that, too) is "Ewwwww!"

Which just seems silly. I've also asked guys point blank what it is about the whole two women together fantasy that is so hot to them and I just get a blank stare. :shrug:

Oh, and it's no stereotype, at least not in my experience. Every guy I've ever known has just about drooled all over himself at the thought.

[tjdee]

7. I don't really care.

Men are more visual than women, generally, as Mrs. Grumpy said.

And thinking of it now, I don't really care. Although, finding out that a man is gay generally ups his hot quotient, for me. :shrug: I think it's because I don't have to "worry" about competition from other women. Or something. I don't know, still trying to figure it out.

/dumb answer

[Mutley]

9. I enjoy watching anyone, and I'm hetero.

My SO says that he likes watching two women together because two women are better than one. :spray:

[Wetzelbill]

67. now if only two Krispy Kreme Donuts could be involved

:)

So, is it hot in here, Muts, or is it just this thread?

[Mutley]

70. I'm 'bout ready to strip down nekkid!

:evilgrin:

[Wetzelbill]

71. !!!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

:rofl:

[robbedvoter]

10. Have you heard of Ann Rice's novels? (before she got reborn)

Also, in every fandom worth its salt, you'll have "shippers" - women fans into some 2 guys who were supposed to be buddies becoming lovers. As an example - the wealth of fan fiction on Kirk&Spok or in the Buffyverse the Angel/Spike obessions.
The difference is that women need more of a story line (developped characters) to get their imagination going - while 2 good looking unknown women are more than enough to interest guys.

[Chovexani]

14. Yeah, but then there's PWPs

eg:

Cid: You're hot.

Vincent: So are you.

Cid: Let's do it. (insert graphic sex here)

There are way more fics like this out than you might think. Not that I've ever written any like that, oh no...

I love the Buffyverse, because Joss was very much aware of slash and was constantly throwing bones to the fans. Angel/Spike actually became canon at the end of AtS (in a throwaway line by Spike).

Edit: I think Anne Rice is singlehandedly responsible for turning a lot of women on to slash. I saw Interview with a Vampire in the theaters and you would not believe the number of women sitting on the edge of their seats breathless, just PRAYING Brad Pitt would kiss Antonio Banderas towards the end. Hell I was one of em and I was like 11 at the time. :P

[robbedvoter]

16. yeah, and when the 2 actors appeared together in London fans asked

them to kiss. David responded: "You'll have to photoshop that one yourselves"
Here's a fun comment on the throwaway line (among other things) - made by a fan named strength in numbers - who shares my own opinions on that:

[Chovexani]

48. LMAO!

Puppet Angel will never, ever stop being funny to me. Ever.

That pic is hilarious, and I'm a pretty diehard Angel/Spike shipper. Well I was pretty much forced into being an Angel/Spike shipper, because I was so goddamn disgusted with Buffy by the end of BtVS that the rabid Spike fan in me thought he just deserved better.

I spent a large part of the Italy episode screaming at the tv, "oh for god's sake, forget Buffy and just do each other already!" :P

[robbedvoter]

64. again, "snort - as if" sums up my reaction to this as well

Coming from a very different side to this story....Opposite, in fact.

[lakemonster11]

20. Yeah, but I think in fanfic

authors can get away with PWPs because there's already an established relationship between the characters. If a reader is sufficiently familiar with the 'ship, the characterization, buildup, and aftermath already exist in her mind.

[Chovexani]

43. That's true

I was just pointing it out, because the idea that women don't like wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am stories is shockingly prevalent in the "outside world". Well, I guess it's shocking to me because I'm so deep into fandom.

I mean I just saw a round robin fic challenge to celebrate a particular character's birthday by literally pimping him out to pretty much every male in the canon with functional genitalia--with the ultimate reward being ravished by the guy he comprises 90% of the fandom's OTP with.

Then I clicked on the OP, and just giggled, and giggled.

[robbedvoter]

66. That's why fanfic exists after all - it's easy manipulation of already

built character situations.

[SoCalDem]

12. Good Grief..NO !!!...n/t

[Chovexani]

13. Aww, I love popping slash cherries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_fiction

and...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi

Hundreds of thousands of horny women from Osaka to Atlanta can't be wrong.

[gollygee]

15. Not watching

but maybe reading about . . . :blush:

Glad to find out it isn't too weird or anything. I've never even heard of "slash" or whatever.

[Chovexani]

18. Ooh another one to corrupt!

http://www.squidge.org/~praxisters/

Enjoy! (Just beware some of the pairings might make your eyes bleed a little)

[lakemonster11]

21. Here's another good site for slash:

http://www.adultfanfiction.net/aff/

Here's one that's all G, PG, and PG-13:
http://www.thyla.com

[Tallison]

19. As a heterosexual female, even I'd rather watch two women go at it

And I'm not in the place to psychoanalyze that right now, sorry. :shrug: :hi:

[Wetzelbill]

38. no doubt that women are much better to look at then men

they just are. :) Let's face it women are gorgeous, us guys, while we have our charms, are not beautiful creatures, so to speak. :)

[lakemonster11]

46. Are you kidding?

Guys are gorgeous.

This is Antinous, Hadrian's lover, whose beauty was legendary:



Or how about this guy, who's not half-bad, either!

[Chovexani]

51. Yeah I laughed my ass off too

Clearly this person has been looking at the wrong guys.

I'll raise you a Gackt:



Oh, and this guy, whoever he is:



;)

[TimeChaser]

79. Gaaaaackt!

Have you heard? He's doing the theme from Dirge of Cerberus :)

[Chovexani]

81. I know!!

I squealed like a squealy fangirl. :loveya:

I swear to god, it's like Nomura is making this game JUST FOR ME.

[CanuckAmok]

87. interestingly, "gorgeous" men are often portrayed as rather androgynous

Hadrian's lover, for example.

[Wetzelbill]

54. sure you can find exceptions

but as a whole women are just much more beautiful than men are.

[Chovexani]

58. In your opinion

Thing is, it's a very subjective thing. Personally I think there's enough gorgeous and ugly people in all genders that the whole thing just cancels itself out.

Then again I'm bi and I find androgyny incredibly hot, so take that as you will.

[Wetzelbill]

65. you probably are right

I'm a straight male. We tend to not be too objective when it comes to how hot women are. :)

[flvegan]

22. I'd have to intervene if there were two women together in bed.

Sex is like sports, to me. Watching might be fun, but participating rocks.

[Wapsie B]

24. Yeah, same here.

Gotta spread the love around.

[flvegan]

25. Plus, variety IS the spice of life.

I'd hate for them to not have every option available to them.

I'm only thinking of them.

[Wapsie B]

52. That's so right.

You can't be selfish with things like this. It feels so good to give back. And give and give......

[LeftyMom]

27. There's the difference, Hypno.

Hetero men are into watching women go at it 'cause they're convinced that's 2/3 of a three-way. Women are generally smarter than that so thier motivations a re a bit more complex (I suspect it has to do with non-threatning men but I'm not a shrink nor do I play one on the internets.) :D

[flvegan]

28. Not always.

See, I'm not into watching. Like sports, I don't watch sex either. But put me on a baseball field (or in bed with two women) and I'll enjoy performing.

[LeftyMom]

30. Well yes, I know that

but you assume you'd be welcomed to the debauchery, which was my point.

[flvegan]

33. So, um...you got any swingin' gal friends?

I kid. Seriously, I kid. I kid a lot. Part of what makes me cute, right?

Right? Heh heh. Jokes. Funny.

[LeftyMom]

42. .

:eyes:

[SeattleGirl]

Exactly, LeftyMom. See my Post #29.

My question hasn't been answered yet, but I think what I was asking about their assumptions is exactly what you are saying here.

[SeattleGirl]

29. flvegan and bwa: I have a question for you.

Are you assuming that the two women are hetero or bi, and would welcome a third party of the opposite sex? Just wondering, because most of the lesbian women I know would not welcome a male. They don't hate men; they just aren't interested in them sexually.

I'm not being sarcastic or anything; I'm just curious as to what assumptions, if any, you might be making about our two hypothetical women.

[flvegan]

32. Well, at least from my pov

I was being silly, as I'd never be in that situation.

However, were I, I'd probably assume that it was a "performance" of sorts put on for me, as I don't know any lesbians that would want/allow some creepy-ass guy like me watching them make love.

[SeattleGirl]

47. Interesting assumption, flvegan

that the two women would be "performing" for you, which may indeed be the case, but might not there also be something in the situation for them that had nothing to do with you? Just sayin'....most women I know could not disconnect themselves from themselves so much that the would be into just "performing". Seems sort of.....mechanical.

[flvegan]

50. Okay, why else would I

be "watching" them, if it had nothing to do with me? Okay, if they get off having a guy watch them, cool. But I'd rather pass. So, knowing me, if I'm watching two women go at it, what I posted is the reason I'm there.

Most women I know also couldn't do so. Every woman I know wouldn't consider this situation. It's not real, hence the "performing" which you seem to have a huge problem with.

[SeattleGirl]

61. I didn't say it had nothing to do with you

I'm just saying it also has something to do with the women. That's all.

[Deja Q]

34. Unknown. I am merely a gay guy and I have never understood...

...heterosexual males' fantasies as to why it is stimulating, often seen on tv shows like Jerry Springer and certain naughty magazines...

Heck, I've seen pictures of three guys and it does little for me. Of course, with ADD I doubt I'd be able to concentrate in the actual situation... never mind be confused over the logistics of the situation... and I may have inadvertantly answered an unasked question... unless somebody else asked it already, of course...

[Wetzelbill]

44. see technically I would want to jump in, but I'm just not an orgy guy

I'd have to wear chains and unbotton the top of my shirt, grow hair out on my chest etc. Not my thing.

Also, I am a major big talker. Total chickenshit, in all honesty. :)

[SeattleGirl]

49. Ewwwww, you mean turn yourself into a real Lounge Lizard?

Believe me, that would do NOTHING for me and all the women I know. So, stay as you are....:7

[Wetzelbill]

55. well,

thank you, but I still see room for improvement, you know? So while I will stay pretty much like I am, I would like to do some fine tuning. :)

[SeattleGirl]

62. Wouldn't we all, friend?

Just don't fine tune yourself into a Lounge Lizard, though, okay? :hug:

[HeeBGBz]

31. I think it would be hot

If it was the right combination of personalities.

[Shine]

36. Not that I know of, as a woman, that is.

Never heard of it.

[Wetzelbill]

37. I pretty much lost all train of thought when you mentioned 2 women in bed

:evilgrin:

No, I doubt it. Men are more into visuals then women. Plus, sex to men is much more raw. If you see sex scenes in film directed by men compared to ones directed by women, you'll see quite a bit of diffence in the portrayal. It's much more intimate, erotic and loving. Men tend to view things that are there to get them off as fast as possible. I would think women aren't as much into that voyeuristic, trashy element of it all. Of course, there are exceptions I am sure.

[WCGreen]

39. I got nothin'

[Wetzelbill]

45. lost your train of thought too, huh?

:)

[WCGreen]

59. Derailed...

[In_The_Wind]

41. I've always found your first statement to be true.

At least it's the fantasy I've heard the most about.

Now to answer your question - I've heard one or two of my female friends say they'd like to watch two men as lovers however I don't think it's on top of the 'to do list' for most women.

Now if you want to discuss threesomes you might receive some very different answers.

[LisaL]

53. Nope.

[Nikia]

56. I find it stimulating

When I have read stories and seen porn of that. I don't think that it has anything to do with me wanting to join in. I guess that it is just interesting to me.

[Debbi801]

68. No interest in 2 men for me...

But I'd enjoy watching two women or even a man and woman. :hi:

[RevCheesehead]

69. Doesn't do a thing for me.

If I'm there, I expect - no, demand - that I be the center of attention. Now, if they're both with me....

[Wetzelbill]

72. so how about

if one was Brett Favre and the other was a young Bart Starr and you got to join in?

Ok, I even thought that was weird.

But it's in the spirit of the thread!!!!!!!!

[RevCheesehead]

76. Only if I can be their football.

It's all about me. ;)

[Wetzelbill]

80. great answer

I wouldn't have expected any less. :)

Yes, you get to be their football.

22....43.....down....set....hut....hut...

:)

[pitohui]

75. i knew a circle of women into it

but it was in the 70s, i don't think it's a stereotype or that most men even acknowledge that this interest exists but women know

[Chovexani]

77. I blame these two.

[Redstone]

82. Mrs R and I had this same diiscussion not long ago.

Redstone

[bridgit]

86. it's a 'man thing', honey, i think that 's what's sought here, still...

my gay friends watch gay-porn to no end (they obviously couldn't care less about two women having sex anywhere let alone on t.v.) won't stop buying it, watching it as a prelude/during sex, won't stop talking about it yada-yada; i mean they are still men so...but for gender preference it is all still just sex.

whereas, my lesbian friends are never seen indulging likewise so go figure.

[NuttyFluffers]

88. edit: remove "watching", sub in "reading about"

if you dabbled even mildly about the fanfiction world you wouldn't be asking this question.

women enjoy the *hell* out of reading about two men in bed. and on the dresser, and on the school desk, and on the stickshift inside a corvette, and just about any surface you could imagine. because, as i've learned while asking this question, "what's better than one really cute guy? two really cute guys!" :evilgrin:

well, that explains that. :D

edit: they also love drawing or photoshopping them in compromising positions. preferrably with interesting power dynamics all over the place. just because women aren't as forthright about the interest doesn't mean it doesn't exist. ;) all societies lie on the outside... dig deeper.

[BigMcLargehuge]

89. Locked

This is a sex thread.

Think unsexy thoughts -



Big McLargehuge
DU Moderator