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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:13 PM
Original message
I could really use a hug.
I just came back from the movies. I saw my nephew for the first time in ages. I'm worried about him because his step-brother was encouraged to enlist and now he's going to be sent to Iraq. I don't want my nephew to enlist. :(

When my brother's big truck with the Bush/Cheney bumper sticker pulled up to the theatre, I shuddered and felt sick. I ended up sitting next to him during the movie. I could feel myself recoiling internally during the entire movie...yuck. I feel icky all over when I'm near my brother for any length of time. I hate that I feel that way, but there it is. I don't know how not to feel that way because I find my brother morally repulsive.

I feel all weirded out. I love my nephew, but can't stand to be around his family, especially my brother. :( :( :(

Damn...just damn.
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wildhorses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. war sucks
:hug:
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. My dear Ladyhawk!
I am so sorry that you had to endure your brother sitting next to you.....

Have some hugs, sweetie......:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. Thanks.
I'm really hurting tonight, especially after I was stupid enough to bare my feelings in GD. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. You'd think I would know better than that, wouldn't you?

I can't stop crying.
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Kathryn STone Donating Member (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
52. yeah what she says-gawd to have your brother be
a cool aid drinker that's sad- ((((((((hugs))))))))
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Have a hug.
and give yourself one, that's more important. I feel you grieving. I suspect you're holding the grief for your family and it's surfacing around this issue. Frequently, family members will hold and play out different poles of emotion. Let me know, if you want to, if any of this is accurate.

This works for me: I've recently seen that gently holding the tension allows it to bloom into insight. Letting go of impatience helps. Just gentle holding.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. I tried to post in GD and got attacked.
I feel fucking hysterical right now because I don't want it to be this way. All I wanted was some input and I get judged for my feelings about my brother. I don't WANT to feel this way!!!!!

GOD DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. My reflections.
So, rage, hysteria and suffering are first to come up. They'll have depth, intensity and staying power in direct proportion to your attachments to what you believe, that is, to how you'd like to see things going. Staying with the holding of emotions works for me in clearing internally and allowing insights to come.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Now I can't stop crying.
I feel like I'm losing control of myself. :( I haven't felt this hurt in a long time.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Stay with it. Your self is right there in the chair.
Edited on Sun Oct-16-05 12:11 AM by Metta
You're feeling the power of your attachments and agendas coming loose.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Can you bring your emotions to your heart level?
Edited on Sun Oct-16-05 12:12 AM by Metta
And continue to gently hold them? That may keep them from being dissipated/ distracted in your head.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. All I know is that I hurt.
I'm tired of feeling estranged from family, but I dare not trust them. They've shown they are not trustworthy.

And it hurts that someone who doesn't know the situation judged me (in GD). Insult to injury. I was already hurting.

I don't want to feel this way about my family, but everything I've ever tried to fix it has failed. I've been trying for years. I can't change them. I know this. I can change myself, but "myself" tells me to stay away from them as much as possible so I don't get hurt.

Why can't I find a place where I belong?
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Your going through exactly what makes sense.
Edited on Sun Oct-16-05 12:34 AM by Metta
Part of what you're going through is your rage at whomever you felt judged you at GD. Do you feel that it's appropriate to address this with them, either now or sometime in the future? Do you think you'd benefit in any way from this or not?

How did you come away with the idea that you're not okay if you feel this way about your family?

As you rightly know, change comes from within. What you're telling me is that when you try to fix them, you fail. Not asking for information here, just offering you something to ponder: how is it that you're entitled to change your family? How do they feel about that and do you think your efforts directly result in theirs?

You belong exactly where you are, my friend. Gently holding the pain so that you keep the door open for it to transform.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. I am not entitled to change my family.
I finally figured that out. They are responsible for their own beliefs, their own actions. I was hoping to have some influence on my nephew, but now I'm even second-guessing that.

I can change myself to some extent. Changing my intellect is one thing, but changing my emotions is another. It takes a long time for my feelings to catch up with logic. When I decided there was no hell, it still took years for the terror to go away.

My feelings about my family just ARE. I feel repulsed by my brother, yet I feel guilty for feeling that way.

I would quote the person who judged me in GD, but the message has been removed for violating the "no personal attacks" rule. I have no desire to address anything with this person...fairly low post count, doesn't know me from Adam. Cognitively, I know I shouldn't feel badly about what some anonymous person said, but my emotions don't seem to get it.

I'm feeling bereft...no family, no friends. And some anonymous asshole on the Internet adds insult to injury.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Mazel tov.
Edited on Sun Oct-16-05 01:03 AM by Metta
Congratulations on a job well done! *Now* you *may* see that they'll be something approaching less rigid in how they act towards you around this issue. The lid lifts slowly as a rule.

As you say, feelings and logic operate on separate schedules. Sometimes, emotions are held in mental or physical memory especially if they've been held for a long time. Neurons and dendrites and all of that. Change comes from letting go of attachments/ agendas just as insight comes from gently holding pain.

Our feelings about our families are deeply rooted and become part of our makeup. Once again, attachments. You still feel that your not okay with feeling repulsed by your brother's way. Somehow you got or came away with "It's not okay to be upset with a family member." I suspect that runs through your family and you've been at odds with family members for a long time.

I saw your edit of your original post on GD. You make your point. That effort only cleared the air somewhat for you as you indicate at the end of your last sentence, above. Your emotions don't get it because you risked being vulnerable and you got stung by critical parenting instead of being held and contained in a space you could work in.

Feeling bereft is another sign that you're attachments are loosening. You've done a fine job of dealing and I can feel your rage lessening.

"Sweet are the uses of adversity, which, like the toad, ugly and venomous, wears yet a precious jewel in his head." As You Like It - Shakespeare.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. I'm going to sign off for the night in another 10 minutes.
I'm getting the impression that your emotions are settling down and that you're working through this more evenly than before. You may even be done with this thread or done for now. As I say, I'll be available for a few more minutes in case you decide to touch base. I'll check again tomorrow, of course, though I can't say when.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Thanks a lot. :)
I still feel a bit upset today. Every time I have to be around family, I risk feeling hurt.

I think one thing that is upsetting me is that once my nephew becomes an adult, he will be as unavailable emotionally as the rest of my family. He's already pretty much a closed door. He never talks about his feelings. He learned long ago that he can't afford to.

I guess I feel I'm losing one of the few people in the family with whom I could connect and it hurts. I'm already alone enough.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Good hearing from you.
What you're going through makes sense. You've been grieving the loss of connection, in this case, within your family for a long time, I'd say. You'll be hurt when you're around your family as long as you have expectations/ preferences/ resentment, etc. going on. What's left, as you know, are the superficial, everyday, safe distractions from dealing with emotions or/and to be yourself in family situations whether or not other family members get involved. Being rhetorical here: can you hold your space well enough in the face of dissonance?
Perhaps this is all you can do for your nephew until he goes away from home. Can you connect with him on levels he's available?

It appears that stifling one's emotional voice is a loyalty that runs through your family. These "invisible" loyalties are very hard to break because they're held in the shadows and because they're used to define our loyalty in playing our roles within our families. Just because of this, they're easy to track. Whatever the presented front/ mask/ preoccupation is becomes a directly opposite cover/ distraction from what's driving us below the surface, sometimes not so below.

More food for thought: are there other family members who think like you do? Friends of the family?



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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Background on my family...why I'm so upset
"Being rhetorical here: can you hold your space well enough in the face of dissonance?"

I've had quite a hard time establishing boundaries. Last November, after a "last straw" experience, I cut off all familial relationships for several months. After my surgery, I was so helpless I had no choice but to re-establish contact.

I'm really not happy in this state of affairs. I wish I had been strong enough to keep going without them and it felt like a personal failure when I let them back in. It was either that or starve.

Still, it's been easier to establish boundaries after keeping family at bay for several months.

"It appears that stifling one's emotional voice is a loyalty that runs through your family."

Oh, most definitely! One must NEVER show one's true emotions. In fact, I rather doubt my brother has any clue how much I've grown to detest him. I'm superficially friendly. At the same time, I had no idea how much my mother had grown to detest me until I invited her to a therapy session and she spent the full hour railing against me and my shortcomings. She never said a thing about it afterward, but I know how she feels about me now. I carry it as a daily burden. My father never said a damn thing about his emotions. He used to pace quietly with a belt in his hands, snapping it. He was always very quiet during the beatings he administered. He was angry in silence.

My nephew was caught between his parents during their divorce. His mother enlisted him as a spy against my family. He lied during his testimony in court. My mother was furious with him, but I knew that he'd had no choice. At one point my ex-sister-in-law claimed my brother beat my nephew while my mother and I watched. This is untrue. I would never allow anyone to beat a child in my presence.

My ex-sister-in-law turned my nephew into a spy. I believe she has filed over twenty lawsuits over the years against my brother and the wife of the man she was having an affair with. She took first one to court, then the other, until she got custody of my nephew and (just recently) custody of her husband's kids. She's a nutjob fundy who tested out with histrionic personality disorder and (I believe) narcissistic personality disorder. (I guessed these diagnoses before they showed up in the tests.) After these disorders showed up, she SUED the psychologist who administered the test.

This is the kind of mother my nephew has.

Now, for my brother.

When we were kids, my father usually spent three days away at work and four days home to "take care" of us kids. When my brother was very small, my mother came home from work one day to find black bruises on the backs of his legs. He had probably been "disciplined" for not cleaning his plate or some such nonsense. My father's weapon of choice was the belt.

My mother claims she threatened my father with divorce if he ever did such a thing again. Well, he did such a thing again. He did it quite often, but never when my mother was home. I got beatings for all kind of infractions, real and imagined, minor and major. I never knew what would set off my father. I lived in fear of him. I can only imagine what my brother felt.

I was never able to connect with my father, but my brother connected with him to some extent because 1) they were both male and 2) they both enjoyed hunting. If you're interested, read this story of my hunting experiences: Hunting at the Crossroads.

During his hunting experiences, my brother learned cruelty. He learned to be cruel to the dogs, to whip them with leashes the same way he'd been whipped with a belt. He learned not to care about "lower forms of life." He learned to kill without remorse, to hunt game out of season, to disregard environmentalists as "commie fools." He also learned it was fun to beat up on his younger sister and torture her pets.

When my brother brought home a Walker coonhound from Missouri, he and my father hooked up with this guy: Rico Oller. You can read about him in my story, "Hunting at the Crossroads." Interestingly enough, I came across this denunciation of Rico Oller during my Google Search: http://www.humaneusa.org/ads/campaigns/archive/ricooller/ricooller.htm . There's even an ad against him: http://www.humaneusa.org/ads/campaigns/archive/ricooller/Rico%20Oller%20Oppose.mp3 . Wow! Just WOW! I'm am SO not surprised. The reason he's against the reporting of animal cruelty is that he's done it himself so bloody often! There are thousands of dead dogs on his old property in Jamestown, California. I know because I knew the bastard well. You can read about this and many other cruelties he perpetrated in my story, "Hunting at the Crossroads."

I can remember many instances of my brother being cruel to animals: beating dogs, beating my pet raccoon, dangling my pet raccoon over the coonhounds' pen. Once when we were walking along a creek, my brother spotted some mud swallow nests under a bridge. He started grabbing rocks and smashing the nests. Baby birds tumbled into the water, stunned. Some were close to fledging.

"Stop! Stop!" I yelled. "Why are you doing this?" I started to wade into the water to save a bird.

"Swallows carry diseases," he stated simply and went on smashing nests.

Maybe shrub should get my brother to help him with the avian flu issue?

When my brother was young, he learned to be cruel to animals in cages. Now that he's an adult, he's learned to be cruel to humans in cages. He is a correctional officer. He used to work Death Row at San Quentin and would tease the prisoners with refrains of "Pop, pop, fizz, fizz! Oh, what a relief it is!" This was in reference to the gas chamber and their upcoming dates with death.

A couple of years ago, my brother and I were watching an episode of NYPD Blue when that dumpy officer--what the hell's his name?--went off on someone he was interrogating, beating the shit out of the guy. I was flabbergasted.

"That's brutality! That's illegal!" I yelled.

"Well, if someone had killed your loved one, who would you want interviewing the bastard who did it?" asked my brother. "Would you want some pussy, or someone who would make the guy talk?"

I explained that torture will make innocent people confess, but my brother just doesn't get it. I know in my heart that he has crossed the line at work. His early training has compelled him to take out his own frustrations on people who are under his power, just as he was under my father's power. He hasn't learned a thing. He may not beat up on my nephew, but he's perpetuating the cycle of violence in another way.

This is my nephew's father.

This is the man from whom my flesh recoils while sitting in the dark at the movie theatre. He reminds me so much of my now-deceased father. I'm sure this is part of the reason why I am so repulsed.

Sigh.

I didn't mean to go on like this, but I just needed to get it out of my system. No one in my family recognizes the negative things that went on, that still go on. I am the only one who ever changed enough to say, "Hey, look! This is wrong!" Yet, I, too, am guilty of many of the same things. I learned cruelty also and applied it before I decided it was wrong. Part of me is always holding the cruelty at bay. One of the many reasons I never had children is that I was terrified I wouldn't be able to keep myself from erupting in anger and treating the children the way I was treated.

This is me.

This is my family.

This is the conundrum.

Part of me still loves my family very much. The other part is repulsed, terrified that my nephew will become like them, or end up like his stepbrother in Iraq. Between his crazy, fundy mother and bizarrely cruel father, he's had absolutely no chance to speak out on his own behalf. Since the divorce ten years ago, or so, he's had to keep his mouth shut. He's never been allowed to have his own opinions or emotions. I wanted to help him, but that's probably a pipe dream.

People who had no knowledge of this background, or of the myriad things I couldn't cover in a single post, judged me. How dare I undermine the values of my nephew's parents? How dare I feel repulsed by my own brother?

Well, I, too, have been silent for ten years while I watched my nephew's parents make his life a battleground. I don't want him to retreat to a battleground in the Middle East.

:cry:
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Will reply soon. Reading your post.
:~>
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Whew.
Tough stuff. You come by your rage and conflict honestly. What you're going through makes perfect sense. You've been holding in your repulsion for so long that it doesn't take much to overflow from you. Also,it's normal to drift/ long towards familial contact which creates another piece of your conflict. Sad that loyalties get in the way of connection and that you're forced to look elsewhere.

It makes sense that you and your cousin are polar opposites on emotional expression and sexuality. I suspect things would be harder on each of you if you didn't have the other holding the extreme. As you imply, holding extremes isn't a balance, just opposite ends of imbalance. You're each holding an extreme of expression. Part of your dis-ease, as you know, is that you don't give much voice to your conflict within your family. (Not saying you should; just pointing out information.) And that when you do, you run smack into people who have to silence you in order to support/ justify themselves.

No wonder you and your brother live in fear, otherwise you'd get a beating. Why haven't you spoken with your mother after she dumped on you? You carry the burden with your silence. It will eat away at you and you very well may wind up with diseases that eat you, too. I suspect they run through your family too.

History is not destiny. I can't say what avenues of expression will work for you. For me, insights like that come out of gently holding the tension. Sometimes, combined with thinking things through although in times like you're going through I would trust my emotions before I trust my rational/ cognitive mind. Hence, holding the tension.

You know you have no control over what your brother and his family do and that any position you put forth that's opposite to theirs will only drive them further into their opposition for self justification. Your brother has to do what he does in order to see himself as a son loyal to your father. Your family is directly responsible for your being awake to the consequences of violence and that there is other choices.

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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Thanks, Metta. You've been a big help.
I want to get back to you on this in more depth. Since last night I've felt very frustrated. This back and forth with family has been going on so long I feel it will never end. I want it to be over. I want closure.

Obviously, I can't change family. I'm having trouble controlling my emotions when I'm around family. Ambivalence hurts like hell. If I had money and wasn't disabled, I would be so gone...so far away from here. But I'm stuck.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Latest thoughts.
Thanks for your kind words. You're the one who did the work. I just reflected from what you told me. Your father and brother actively push people away with their violence. How do you and your mother manage connection in relationship? Your piece in supporting the distance that's running through your family is by actively staying away and by distancing yourself emotionally by defining your relationship with them in resentment and rage. You're all doing variations of the same thing.

Gently holding your frustration for awhile will yield unknown benefits, as I suspect you're coming to understand. Also, try this. See yourself in the center of a perfectly round circle. Adjust its size so that you're very comfortable. Then, see your father and brother in their own circle, same way. See a stream of energy flowing rapidly back and forth between their hearts, from approx. three feet in front of each of them and extending approx. three feet behind them. Flowing rapidly, like a piston at high speed. After a short while, the flow should continue on its own momentum. You'll probably see/ feel them adjusting in the space. The energy will adjust them. You may want to return to this for a time until the frequency/ flavor of the energy changes to something you're more comfortable with. They'll be softer and more pliable then, at least in some dimension. Always bring up a circle around yourself and any exteral subjects before doing any energy work. They bring protection, centering and balance, imply grounding, change the frequency of what's inside them and hold energy, keeping it from dissipating in space.

I'm available to you to continue this at your will. I'm glad to see you're not letting this stop you from getting out.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. "More food for thought: are there other family members...
Edited on Sun Oct-16-05 06:41 PM by Ladyhawk
...who think like you do? Friends of the family?"

The only person I can think of is my maternal cousin, but she's very flighty and is fiercely loyal to family. She doesn't like hearing about anything negative.

She probably has a better style of dealing with her fundy upbringing. She openly flaunts her interest in "satanic" things like tarot, palm reading, etc. She is sexually promiscuous and makes sure everyone knows about it. I, on the other hand, ended up sexually repressed. I've always joked that if my cousin and I were fused, we'd have just the right libido.

On edit: for awhile, I thought maybe my paternal uncle would be on my side when he retired. He was a bigshot with the Bureau of Engraving and Printing for many years. In fact, he was the bigshot: the top appointee who was not political, so he had job security. He was the Director of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing by the time he retired nearly ten years ago.

My family always called him "liberal," as if it were a dirty word, but during the Clinton administration, my uncle changed and became much more conservative. I wonder how well he knew Alan Greenspan, among others? He always had access to the Secretary of the Treasury and the Treasurer. I wonder what led to his becoming more conservative?

Now he's just like the rest of my family. He even campaigned for that bastard, Rico Oller.
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Raising hand as someone who feels like you
Parts of my immediate family are a catastrophe. It's painful, embarrasing, emotionally draining... I feel let down & I'm angry as hell but at the same time I feel guilty for being the one that cares.

So, dont feel alone!! There are MANY of us out there with families with similar situations, struggling the same way you are.

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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. I'm so tired of it...just want it to be solved, to have closure.
It hurts really bad.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Just drop them like a hot rock.
You don't need that kind of aggro, family or not.

Trust me, "walking away" is a very good way of dealing with things you can't change. It's always been my credo, and it's saved me untold amounts of trouble...just walk away.

Redstone
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. Or, there's Redstone's option. Ah, Redstone.
Edited on Sun Oct-16-05 12:03 AM by BlueIris
You're still my favorite poster.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
25. Wish I could...sigh.
I think I should stay out of GD. I wonder if I should just stay away from forums completely, sometimes.
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ouch
that truly sucks. I read your other thread asking for advice. Unfortunately, I don't really have any. But I hope you can get through to your nephew and keep him from enlisting.

I'll keep you and him in my thoughts and here's your :hug: :)
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here you go
It's awful to see people you love sucked into war. So terrifying.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. And we are not headed to a civil war...
Forced to pick sides by power hungry greedy bastards that will drive a hard wedge between family members, friends, neighbors...

It's us or them...

With us or against us....

This is leadership????

More like facsism...

I grieve for you loss, the detachment you feel from your family...

I have been dealing with this for years..
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. Thank you. It's really hard.
I don't WANT to feel this way. I don't WANT it to be this way.

:cry:

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FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. :(
I can't even imagine :(

I've never had someone close go to war

:sympathy:
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In_The_Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Here Ya Go!

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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hugs. They'll give it up eventually.
Hopefully, it will be in time to save your other loved ones.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. Just got jumped on in GD for telling them about this.
Fuck...what the HELL was I thinking????????????????????????????
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. Grrrrr. Well, we're here for you, anyway. nt
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. .
:hug:
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. ((((hug))))
:hug::grouphug::hug:
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
22. here's another hug
since I'm collecting a few myself
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. More hugs
I'm not letting your hugs slip below mine :-)
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. LOL! :)
Dunno if I'll ever show my face in GD again. Show weakness and they're on you like rabid dogs.
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. I know you run a little sensitive
you really need to stay out of there.
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catmother Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
29. hug
my husband has his car radio set to all the talk stations. i sometimes think he is being brainwashed by the likes of sean hannity, et al. it was very difficult for us right before the election. he decided not to vote. he didn't care for bush, but he really did not like kerry. when bush won and he saw me crying he said "i'm sorry your candidate didn't win". we've been together for 35 years but the last 10 years or so we really argue about politics. but at least i don't feel creepy around him and he certainly does not have a bush/cheney bumper sticker. i would divorce him. LOL

i have a very close friend who is a democrat. his parents, brother and sisters are all republicans and so are most of his cousins. he's really got it bad.

anyway i'm sending you a great big hug.

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fleabert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
33. ugh. I feel the same way with my uncle.
he gives me the creepy crawlies. a true reTHUGlican. :-(

:hug: Just love your nephew and give him the truth about how much you value him and beg him not to join up. that's all you can do. :hug:
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Lethe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
34. hopefully things will work out for the best
:hug:
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
35. Hugs
All my hopes wishes white light and anything else you need. I know what it's like to have a fundie in the family I hope he is allright over there.
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AirmensMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
38. I'm sorry, Ladyhawk.
I wish I could help.

:hug: :grouphug: :hug:
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khashka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
39. Family can be difficult.
They're often not the people we would choose to have in our lives... so lots of
:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
for you Ladyhawk. And best wishes for your nephew.

Khash.
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
45. Hugs in bound.
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ThatsMyBarack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
46. Alright....
:grouphug:
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
48. Here you go
:hug:
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
51. e-hugs!
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