For President, you have to vote for Tom Cruise or GW Bush.

[GOPBasher]

How do you vote?

[maddiejoan]

1. Tom Cruise

But I'm not gonna join Sea Org.

[GOPBasher]

19. That bumper sticker in your sig line is hilarious!

:-)

[MirrorAshes]

2. anthony michael hall vs bush = same result

[GOPBasher]

40. I see. :-) n/t

[ET Awful]

3. I don't.

I leave the country.

If you vote for Bush, you get more of the same.

If you vote for Cruise, you give control of the nation to the Church of Scientology which is one of their professed goals: "Someday, someone, will say this is illegal.. let's make sure that by that time we are the ones who say what is legal or not." L Ron Hubbard

I wouldn't vote for either.

[GOPBasher]

6. Damn, that's a scary quote. n/t

[Orsino]

4. Cruise, I guess...

...if it means we get a bunch of Scientology drones in the cabinet instead of today's christocorporate fascists. It'll take 'em many decades to establish any sort of religious monopoly, which will buy us a little more civilization in the meantime.

And I doubt that they'd be starting any big wars. I'll take 'em.

[ET Awful]

12. Well, you'd see an immediate effort to eliminate all mental health

professions, everything from counseling to psychology would be hindered, if not outlawed. You'd see a concerted effort to ban all pscyhotropic medications of any kind.

You'd see a refusal to even discuss any kind of health care issues, as those can all be handled through "tech."

[GOPBasher]

20. Yes! I'd totally support that!

Well no, I'm kidding, but did I have you going for a second? :shrug:

[Orsino]

25. But no majority to push such legislation through...

Stopping the * juggernaut is a good thing, and a few SCientologists are not going to be rewriting health care--or at least they wouldn't be doing *-scale damage anytime soon.

[ET Awful]

26. What's funny, I haven't been there in years, but on the newsgroup

alt.religion.scientology, they used to use * to refer to the leader of the cult if I'm not mistaken (or another high-up, I forget).

As to their control . . . they wouldn't refrain from using executive orders to accomplish many of their goals.

[Orsino]

27. That doesn't sound much worse than *, either.

* isn't shy about using EOs.

[GOPBasher]

41. "At least we'd have a little more civilization in the meantime."

Good way to look at it! :thumbsup:

[BlueIris]

5. Oh, man. Scienos Vs. Neocons. A tough and bitter choice.

And speaking of choice, both groups are against it. That's usually how I will make my call, when it comes right down to it. Neocons=forced pregnancies/death. Scientologists (unless you're a celeb)=forced abortions. Can't decide there. I actually think Bush is cuter than Cruise at this point. And he's even a little bit more gay.

[GOPBasher]

7. They force abortions?

Holy crap! I didn't know that. Man, that's such a scary religion.

[ET Awful]

10. See here for stories/quotes from ex-members

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/abortions.html

[BlueIris]

23. Thanks, ET. Stories about that are all over, if you look for them.

Scientology actually forces its non-celeb members to do a lot of horrible things; its celebrities aren't exempt from that kind of thing, either--BECAUSE IT'S A FREAKING CULT. http://www.xenu.net. Can't be posted enough.

[terrya]

8. I guess Tom Cruise...reluctantly. I despise Tom Cruise

[grace0418]

36. I can't stand Tom Cruise either but there was no hesitation if the

choice is between him and Dumbass. I can't think of many people on earth who would make Dumbass the lesser of two evils. Seriously.

[GOPBasher]

42. So, you'd enthusiastically and happily vote for Cruise?

Duly noted. :P

[Shell Beau]

9. Damn that is hard. This may be one that I just would not

vote in. I'm scared of either outcome!

[GOPBasher]

43. So, "GOPBasher is an assface" is your option?

B-)

[Shell Beau]

51. Well..... I didn't want to come right out and say it, but...

[BlondieK143]

11. How can anyone even put these two in the same fucking category?

So what - you don't like Tom Cruise? WE GET IT ALREADY. But to vote GW over HIM?!? Are you fucking kidding me?! Sometimes I seriously wonder where the sanity has gone.

[ET Awful]

13. It has nothing to do with Cruise himself. I could care less about him.

As I said, I wouldn't vote for either, I'd leave the US.

Cruise, like Bush, would be a puppet for the group that backs him. Like it or not, the goals of Scientology are as nefarious and evil as the goals of the neocons.

It's nothing personal against Cruise, it's against the malignant evil group that backs him.

[BlondieK143]

14. I highly doubt you'd leave the US.

So many people said that if he was re-elected, they'd do the same. More than likely, we'd all sit here and bitch and moan for another four years. Let's just be realistic.

[ET Awful]

16. If I knew for a fact that the only two choices had been narrowed down

to giving control of the country to Scientologists or neocons, I would indeed leave.

I never said that about Bush alone because there was an alternative that was at least somewhat better.

If the only two choices are equally evil, I will not vote for either, and I will indeed leave because when that happens there will be no point in continuing the fight.

[BlueIris]

24. I would run right behind you, ET.

Holy CRAP, Co$ is horrifying. And I honestly can't decide which group I think is more dangerous.

[GOPBasher]

15. I wasn't being serious. This was supposed to be

a light-hearted joke. :shrug:

[BlondieK143]

17. I know, I'm just saying..

:) I'm just getting sick of all the TC bashing.

[GOPBasher]

18. Believe it or not, I'm actually sick

of Tom Cruise threads of any kind (pro or con). They're just boring. Yet, I just created one. Go figure. :shrug:

Either I'm a Republican-level hypocrite, or I made a bad joke. :-)

[dolo amber]

21. I'm watching "The Outsiders" as we speak

I vote for C. Thomas Howell. :D

[Zuni]

28. what about Patrick Swayze?

he did make "Road House"

[GOPBasher]

45. Hey, that's not a choice!

But I'll get you down as "GOPBasher is an assface." B-)

[jandrok]

22. I'd vote Cruise - easily the most famous gay Democrat EVER!

Can't beat Tom-Tom.

[BlueIris]

32. Has he actually stated he's a Dem?

I kind of assumed he was voting Democrat in 2004 because of that whole hatred of psychiatry/pharmaceuticals thing. Bush being so pro-psych drugs/psych drug manufacturers and all. But I have yet to read of Tom actually stating his political affiliation--did he? Where? Really curious.

[jandrok]

47. I'm unaware of Cruise actually stating any political affiliation.

BUT, his political donation record is 100% Democratic. Probably safe to make the assumption based on that.

http://www.campaignmoney.com/biography/tom_cruise.asp

There may be other folks here who can provide evidence of statements from the Cruise camp, but I personally can't document anything other than the contribution record.

[BlueIris]

63. Dude. He gives to Dems. Nice.

Not that the donations make him any less of a goddamned moron traumatized cult victim, but maybe I can dislike him a little less now.

[GOPBasher]

46. Well he must be in the closet.

I've never heard him say he's a Dem. :shrug:

[jandrok]

49. See post# 47. (n/t)

[GOPBasher]

50. Saw it. Got'cha. n/t

[Strawman]

29. Can I vote for the dancing poo?

I like him better than either of those choices.

[GOPBasher]

30. Perhaps you can write him (her?) in.

:shrug:

[dhinojosa]

31. Tom Cruise is a democrat, so obviously

Tom Cruise....

[Zuni]

33. but he is a brainwashed cult democrat

I would take the DLC's worst over that

[dhinojosa]

34. So are many Christian Democrats....

and I still vote for them. Remember the only the difference between a cult and a religion is a religion has more followers and money. Same shit, different robe is what I always say.

[Zuni]

35. nonsense

the Scientologists make you hand over your money and attempt to control your life. Talk to ETAwful---he is the resident expert. you can learn alot about scientology from him

[dhinojosa]

37. Chrisitians do that too (Catholics, Mormons especially)

So what the hell? Does that mean I shouldn't have voted for Kerry? or Harry Reid?

(I am in NM so I didn't vote directly for Reid but you get my drift)

[Zuni]

44. Mormonism is far more similar

Mormonism is a very, very creepy religion. It IS NOT Christianity, btw. They might use the name of Christ, but it is an entirely different religion.

[dhinojosa]

52. Mormonism is Christianity.....

It always has been, always will be. Can't change the facts just because you have an opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations


On Edit: Better Grammar

[Zuni]

53. no, it isn't

it is an offshoot of christianity with a all kinds of different teachings, bizarro shit that has nothing to do with the bible. It is about as Christian as Islam. Anyone who tells you different, encyclopedia or not doesn't know what they are talking about.

btw, Mormonism was originally a moneymaking scheme by Joesph Smith. The Mormon Church even posseses documents proving that the whole thing was started as a scam but won't release them. They quickly buy up evidence of Joseph Smith's various fraudulent schemes and hide them deep in their vaults.

[dhinojosa]

56. yes, it is

"it is an offshoot of christianity with a all kinds of different teachings, bizarro shit that has nothing to do with the bible."

Did you know that the "god" we believe in came from Zeus? Not to mention that Zeus had many infallible sons, much like God with Jesus? God lived in the clouds (crazy asses), and the devil (which came from Zoroastianism) came from underground? (See they thought the earth was flat). Well sorry for saying this, but all that is bizarro shit too, and given the technological breakthoughs in the last few years it pretty much debunked much of the bible.

Whose to say that this pile of shit has somewhat more redeeming value over that other pile of shit. All religion is a money & power making scheme.

As per the Mormons, unless you can give me reliable proof the Latter Day Saints aren't Christian then I will have to say they are a Christian religion. Sorry but I value facts over opinion.

[Left Is Write]

54. Don't tell them they aren't Christians.

Mormonism certainly comes under the umbrella of Christianity, though it is practiced in a much different way than most other branches of Christianity.

This is where I have trouble with people referring to the "Christian religion" as if it all means the same thing to everyone. There are many, many differing religious beliefs that all fall under the same broad category.

I don't believe a lot of things that many other Christians do, starting with the infallibility of the Bible. I don't believe it is the literal, inerrant Word Of God; some people do. I believe it's full of allegory and symbolism; others believe it's an accurate historical document.

[Left Is Write]

55. Catholics "make" people hand over their money?

You can't attend a Catholic church, worship, hear the lesson, receive communion, make confession, receive absolution, or any other such activities unless you pay for it?

[dhinojosa]

57. Sure.....buy now and I will throw in one of these!!!

"By the authority of all the saints, and in mercy towards you, I absolve you from all sins and misdeeds and remit all punishments for ten days."

It's how they paid for St. Peter's Basillica, any many other things don't you know.

[Left Is Write]

58. The days of selling indulgences have been over for centuries.

Let's return to the 21st century. To the best of my knowledge (I am not Catholic), the Catholic Church does not require payment of any kind in order to receive baptism, absolution, confession, or to attend mass or to receive the lessons.

[dhinojosa]

59. Oh now were getting picky.

Their current M.O. now is guilt, same shit as Pat Robertson pulls on his flock.

It isn't forcing you are right, but coersion doesn't make it good either.

[Left Is Write]

60. The difference between Catholicism and Scientology

is that Scientology actually does require payment for certain levels of "enlightenment."

(BTW - I give contributions to my church because I realize that it costs money to maintain the building (including utilities), provide outreach opportunities, purchase books and other materials, operate the nursery, pay the staff, and so forth. I also volunteer my time towards some of these things. But I assure you I would be no less welcome there if I were unable to make these contributions.)

[dhinojosa]

61. Just a question:

Do they at your church coerce any payments through guilt, sin, etc, or are they upfront with what they need money for?

[Left Is Write]

62. No. In all my years I've never felt coerced.

Besides "sin" isn't discussed a whole lot outside of the liturgical confession in an ELCA church. Certainly never in connection with giving.

Everyone knows what the money is needed for. The church council formulates a budget, which is published. There are regular congregational meetings regarding budgetary and other issues. Money used for outreach, mission, and other giving is always outlined. The books are audited every quarter. We don't have a single person acting as treasurer: there is a financial team.

[xmas74]

65. I was raised Catholic but attend a Methodist church.

They have always been very upfront about what the money is about. They will tell you that it is needed for a new roof, for our sister church in Africa, for the tsunami victims, for the food pantry, for our preschool, etc.
Anything that is directly for church use (such as the roof) will be printed up and handed out to anyone who is interested (with the details of the repairs, the estimates, etc). Anything that is donated will also be put in writing w/ exactly how much is donated and to what cause. We have monthly meetings that are open to anyone (including non-members) that explain exactly what the cost is to run the church.
I have never been guilted into giving. I do give when I have the money. If I don't have the money I try to donate my time (though it has never been required of me to do so). The day they attempt to play w/ my emotions in that manner I will quit going.

[Canedawg]

66. Talk about the greater of two evils!

the Scientologists make you hand over your money and attempt to control your life."

Sounds like a cult to me.


Scientologists in power=really scary.

I guess he'd make jumping on people's furniture a ritual, and make Brook shields stop taking anti-depressants.

[GOPBasher]

48. Is he really? I didn't know that.

:shrug:

[peekaloo]

38. Violent overthrow of that particular gubmint.

[GOPBasher]

39. That's another option. n/t

[Robeson]

64. Who's the Green Party Candidate in this run-off?