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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:19 PM
Original message
Wal-Mart!
Wal-Mart caters to the working poor. As long As poeple are poor they will shop there! Even People with OK pay will shop there as long as they need to save a dime or two. The point is if you hate Wal-mart then you should find a way to help the working poor and the older people that must decide between food and meds. If you don't shop there then good for you, just don't attack those that do or must! Attacking them for it is more like a Repuke way of doing things!

Rant over! Thank you!
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VermontDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. That is why their prices are so low
They pay their employers low wages so they can cut prices. I am pro-union, Wal*mart isn't, plus they treat their customers as well as their employers like shit which is why I will never shop there.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Your forgetting about others at jobs that make $5.15 only!
Unions won't cut it! Here we can not have a union for those in the restorant and motel/hotel wrok so the get $5.15 and less. Those who work for Wal-Marts are making more that those poeple! They end up needing Wal-Mart and Sam's Club! What about those people! Lets help them so that don't need Wal-Marts!
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VermontDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I don't care about that
People are making higher wages at Target and other department stores I am not going to comment on restuarants because there aren't any strikes going on as far as I know. No one needs a Wal*mart if you live in a well populated city there is always a Target and a Kmart as well as other department stores I would walk the extra block to go shop. The fact is they mistreated their employers and their customers, that means alot to me but maybe not you.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Here Wal-mart has closed out K-mart and Target is getting ready to move..
out due to Wal-Marts. People here in the restuarant tried to protest but lost there jobs for it because of a legal thing.
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VermontDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. One of my problems with Wal*Mart
Edited on Wed Oct-29-03 03:49 PM by VermontDem2004
Due to K-Mart and Target or other department stores not able to lower prices because they pay their employers reasonable wages causes them to take a fall in business because Wal*Mart is slashing pay for lower wages.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. If you want to get Wal-Marts then start
helping those who have to go there! As long as they they have the poor to get money from they will keep going!
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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
48. Another problem you have is
That Walmarts aren't in poor neighborhoods primarily. They are in middle class neighborhoods or working class neighborhoods. The poor neighborhoods that the rare Walmart is in are virtually never minority neighborhoods.

I think what you are trying to say is that Walmart is helping the poor (by saving them money)? Couldn't they help the poor more by paying their employees a living wage?
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. HWere do you think most working poor is!
Many are in working class neighborhoods!
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
67. Kmart and Target are republican, too
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VermontDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #67
73. That is not my point, I don't give a fuck who they contribute too
My point is how they run their corporation, their business, paying low wages and is non-union that is what I mean by republican-like corporation.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. I am retired; on a fixed income
It would be easier for me to shop at Wal mart than go the extra hour or more to a store somewhat similar (K-Mart, Target). Actually the nearest Target is over 2 hours away. I don't have all th emoney in the world to spend and I'm very chosy about where I spend it. I WILL NOT spend a cent at Wal-Mart because that's paying into the corporation that keeps its workers at low wages, sells products made in foreign sweatshops, and imposes its views when selecting the products it sells.

I feel sorry for people who think this is their only option. They've been forced, by the corporation which put smaller stores out of business, to think this is the only option.

Many people have no clue how evil Wal-Mart is.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. Many can't afford to go that far due to gas!
That goes with the food or meds question for many! Why speand so much to travel when you can spend that little extra money on meds!
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el_gato Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. you are being deceitful
If you argue that wal-mart sucks is that attacking somebody that shops at wal-mart? That is the basis of your assertion.

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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'm being real!
Wal-Mart is not the problem! Poeple needing them is the problem! If you put the same energy that you wast hateing Wal-Mart into finding ways to help the people that needs to shop there you may find that you will kill two birds with one stone!
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VermontDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. No one needs that piece of shit department store
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I make $5,000 a year!
So where do you think I go??
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VermontDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Go somewhere else
You want food, likely a non corporation corner store sells cheap food. You want a magazine? A grocery store has magazines for about the same price? Need electronics? Electronic stores sell cheaper then Wal*mart, whatever you need you can go somewhere else, and please stop trying to make wal*mart appear like an angel when in fact they are a republican-like corporation.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Let's see if I can't get this across....
Edited on Wed Oct-29-03 04:16 PM by Lady Freedom
There is no corrner stors! Why, 2 Wal-Mart Supperstores in 1 town not 6 miles for the other!! As for electronics, I need food more! As for magazines, I'm a Univerity student, we have a library! As for Wal-Mart being an angel, that's a laugh. What I'm trying to get at is that as long as we have poor/working poor Wal-Mart will be there! If you feel so strongly about "Wally World", why don't you go out and do something to help those who needs to shop there?
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I think you're preaching to the choir here
We're Democrats, remember?

We're the party working to give people a living wage. We also understand the evil that is Wal-Mart.

Fighting against Wal-Mart and fighting to raise the standard of living are not mutually exclusive. Most of us are trying to do both.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Lately it been sounding like a freeper convention!
Edited on Wed Oct-29-03 04:25 PM by Lady Freedom
Not A Democrat site!
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. You're entitled to your opinion (n/t)
.
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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
45. I see you have access to a computer
Virtually everything that you buy at Walmart can be bought online cheaper.

You say we should help the poor so that they don't "have to" go to Walmart, others say that Walmart should be brought on the carpet. Can't both be done?
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Food?
Not likely!

Why not start helping where the most can be done right now!
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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. I can tell
That you started this thread just to be argumentative, but I'll play with you once more.

You are telling me there are:

1. No stores other than Walmart: Hard to believe- where do you get gas? Just about every gas station I go to has a convenience store attached. Not the best place to buy food, but they can usually make a decent sandwich. Of course if there are TWO walmarts near you and ZERO other stores I have to wonder if one is the reason for the other. I would bet that there were local stores before Walmart.

2. No places (online) where you can buy seeds to grow food

AND

3. Everything at Walmart is the LOWEST price available. Walmart has proven over the years, that when they have a monopoly in a market, their prices are HIGHER than their stores in competitive markets.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Lets try one more time!
Low priced stores are hard to find.
Where can one grow enough food to live on if they live in a appartment?
And many don't have the advantage of haveing any competion for Wal-Mart.

And let me get this strait? Poor people should not have decent food to eat? No fruit or veg.?


And exactly what have you done to help working poor people? Wal-Mart is feeding off them and all you do is rant! If you would use some of that energy you wast in ranting maybe you could do something to make a diffrence!
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jono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Why are low-priced stores hard to find?
Oh yeah, Wal-Mart put them all out of business.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. So what!
Talking about how "Wally World" put others out of business will not help those that needs to shop there will it?

People that grip at others that shop or need to shop there and does nothing to help is as bad a Wal-Marts!
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jono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. So what?
You're digging yourself a hole. You don't want ill will towards those who shop at Wal-Mart. Yet if people stopped shopping at Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart would cease to exist.

You say that ranting about Wal-Mart isn't helping the people who shop there. Guess what? Shopping there isn't helping either. You only encourage their behavior by giving them your dollars.
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jono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. You just answered your own question.
Edited on Wed Oct-29-03 04:12 PM by jono
(on edit: not that you were asking a question :))

"Wal-Mart is not the problem! Poeple needing them is the problem!"

What is the reason people feel they need to shop at Wal-Mart? Because they have the lowest prices.

Why do they have the lowest prices? Because they treat their workers like crap and have the scale to buy in volume at discount.

What effect does this have? It puts others out of business because they can't take care of their workers and still compete.

What happens when all the other businesses close? People feel that they need to shop at Wal-Mart.

It's an ugly, viscious cycle. If you shop at Wal-Mart, you support Wal-Mart. (Perhaps that support is strictly financial and not moral, but it is still support.)
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OldSoldier Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
80. Wal-Mart doesn't have the scale to buy at discount
They have the scale to dictate prices to their suppliers.

If you start supplying Wal-Mart, be prepared to have Wal-Mart's people crawl all over your operation looking for places you can cut expenses so that you can "afford" to charge what Wal-Mart wants to pay.

I know they do primary-source management (on a Stanley tape measure, Stanley is primary source), but am not sure about secondary-source management (if Rohm + Haas made the plastic Stanley makes its tape measures from, R+H is secondary source). It wouldn't be surprising, though.
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TEXASYANKEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. I hate WalMart.
I never shop there. But I know plenty of well-off people who do shop there, for whatever reason. What do I say to them?
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Most of Wal-Marts money comes from poor...
Let the rich shop there. It's the poor that needs to shop there that needs help! You think I'd shop there if I could buy better clothes from someplace else? No! You think I'd buy the sometimes brused apples they have if I could get better someplace else?NO! So if the rich likes that, fine! Help the poor get better and take the monety from right under Wal-marts! Then the rich will have to pay more so they will go for better and then... TA-DA!
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. Agreed.
But what I've noticed is that the truly desperate poor tend to shop at the Dollar Store(at least in my town). I think I know why, too; they don't feel as conspicuous at the Dollar Store as they do Walmart. Walmart has some very nicely dressed/groomed people shopping there. Also, if you're poor, it makes you feel badly when you see things that you know you can't afford, and Walmart really knows how to display their *pretties*.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. But the Dollar Stor does not carry food or meds!
So guess where they end up going?
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Our Dollar General carries some foods, but we've also got Save a Lot,
and Aldi's is building right now. For some reason we've got every major pharmacy chain in our town. Working the register at the pharmacy has got to be a heartbreaking job. :(
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Save Alot is bineg pounded by Wal-marts add matching!
That is a major problem for alot of those type places!
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Yep, that's one of their strategies to kill off the other businesses.
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TOhioLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
79. it is....
It is a heart-breaking job...I did it for 6 years.
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oldleftguy Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. Everytime you spend a buck you vote!
Don't shop at Waremart! According to this weeks Time some of the janitors caught in the sweep were being paid $2.00 a day. :grr:
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. And waitresses here are being paid &1.50 an hour!
Edited on Wed Oct-29-03 03:48 PM by Lady Freedom
As I said as long as there are working poor Wal-Mart wins! Do more for EVERYONE and not just Wal-Mart poeple and you might find that Wal-Mart won't have an leg to stand on!
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I think I'm missing your point
If you're saying corporations have an obligation to pay a living wage, I agree with you.

If you're saying workers should have the legal right to unionize, I agree with you.

Other than that, I'm rather confused about what you're trying to say.

There are options to Wal-Mart. I've found the one other grocery store in the town with Wal-Mart sells prescription drugs at the same price as W-M. I don't know about the prices for groceries 'cause I've never been to a Wal-Mart food store.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. My point is...
STOP GRUMPING ABOUT WAL-MART AND START TO FIND WAYS TO HELP THOSE WHO MUST SHOP THERE!
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #18
77. If waitresses make $1.50/hour there...
... you need to contact the wage-and-hour division of your state's Dep't of Labor. Federal law requires that waitresses be paid approximately twice that (can't remember what, exactly) per-hour.
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
78. Waitresses in oklahoma make 2.15...
THey aren't required to pay them minimum wage.
Duckie
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OldSoldier Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. Tipped employee compensation:
All employees must make at least minimum wage. That's federal law, at least until Dubya gets hold of it.

Tipped employee compensation is weird because the government counts tips as part of the compensation. You're required to pay them at least $2.35 per hour. If the employee's tips combined with the $2.35 don't bring them up to minimum wage, you are required to pay them the difference.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. Consumer co-ops
Get people together, buy wholesale (or straight from the manufacturer) at cost.

The idea was diluted into "membership" stores, that were sometimes incorporated as non-profits (not tax-exempt, though).

Further bastardized as commercial "club stores" like "Sam's Club".

The original notion of consumer owned and democratically run consumer cooperatives demands to be revived.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Thats a good idea if you live in a area that it is legal!
Without the correct backing in my area they can not be formed!
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Jeepers freepers! Where on Earth is that?
Sounds like a good issue to organize around...
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Joplin, MO
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. There is an Ozarks co-op warehouse
See

http://www.ozarkcoop.com/

They cover missouri.

Contact them to see if there is anything in your area.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. They were closed due to non-inharence to standing laws.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #46
64. Are you sure?
From their Web site they look very open. Did you call or email them to confirm this?

Their Web site also says they serve Missouri, with no mention of local laws prohibiting this.

Also, I noted the University of Missouri Extension offers courses in organizing food co-ops, a very strange thing to do if they are in fact illegal.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. There are no individual solutions
Edited on Wed Oct-29-03 04:54 PM by DBoon
Go ahead and shop at Walmart. It meets your needs.

You are not "individually responsible" for what is a political problem. This crap about everything being "individual responsibility" should be banished forever from DU!

Folks at DU understand that we need collective action to change things for the better.

If your laws won't allow co-ops, then write your state reps.

Contact co-op associations and see if there is a way you can help.

Maybe find if there are like-minded folks who can help you start a food co-op. Anyone else in DU-land that can help?

Are there small farms near you that the co-op could buy from? Fresh produce buyers clubs are a good way to start.

See http://www.ncba.coop/ for more resources
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. Wal Mart CELEBRATES when businesses close
The Wal Mart that opened in my home town had a big chart in the employee lounge, with a map of downtown on it. For every business that closed in the downtown area (thus sending more business, ostensibly, to Wal Mart) they put a GOLD STAR on that location on the map and had treats to celebrate!!
Gag me...
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Welcome to DU!
:hi:

And the fact that WM celebrates closings like that is apalling!!!
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. With their business practices it is hard not to dislike them.
They are an embarrassment to responsible businesses. It is too bad so many folks feel they must shop there because of the low prices. And the value they recieve is sometimes questionable. But I have no respect for those who shop there just because they are cheap and think they are getting a "good deal".

Walmart's profits are obscene in relationship to what they give back in wages and stimulation to the economy. Walmart creates a societal problem that we have to pay to clean up.

And I think it is obvious that we should do something to help the working poor and the otherwise destitute. That is a part of what DU is all about. We need state legislatures and a Congress that will work together to resolve the basic issues that face our economy as well as our government and wider culture.

You are right in thinking Walmart is not the source of the problem, but they are one of the most egregious and visable examples of predatory capitalism that we have. The value saved at the cash register is an illusion. We pay, one way or another.

It's a little like dancing with the devil. :D
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. I get your point however I think people need to be better consumers.
One of the reasons that I despise Walmart is the fact that they create the "working poor", to the tune of 800,000, making them the largest company in the US as well as the largest wage depressor.

Everytime a low wage worker goes and buys something there he/she helps perpetuate the wage depression that hurts the very people that we purport to want to help.

Let me put it this way...Ever dollar you "save" there comes out of a low wage workers wallet. Does this have to be a zero sum game? No. They've made it one though and it's up to us to stop them.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. It is not just Wal-Mart that has done that!
There are alot more places that are just as bad! Ad do I hear anything about them?NO! Not A peep about Tysons or any other!
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Read "Fast Food Nation"
They say plenty about labor practices in companies like Tyson's.

Sad - we have turned the clock back 100 years to "The Jungle" when it comes to worker's rights.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
70. No shit. Perhaps multi-tasking is in order?
And to ignore the largest company in the WORLD is like ingnoring me whilst drunken and rooting through your liquor cabinette...Blind?
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
39. Wal-Mart *creates* the working poor
They pay "Always the low wage. Always." :-), make sure no one works enough hours to qualify for benefits, and then when all the local businesses close no one has any choice but to go work for them. "Resistance is futile"...

End result: Your scarce dollars end up supporting a bunch of fundie whack-jobs who won't carry RU-486 in their pharmacies (often the only ones in town after they put the independent one out of business), or "racy" magazines like Maxim, etc. And there's not a whole lot you can do about it. "I feel your pain"...
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
42. Well, they've got YOU hoodwinked.
Walmart employees ARE the working poor. kept below full-time in order to avoid offering them healthcare, forced to work unpaid overtime, etc... A lot of the people who are "forced" to shop there are people who had decent jobs, or owned a small store before Walmart came to town.
Shop there if you like, but don't dare call yourself liberal or progressive, because the lowest-priced thing in the store is apparently your principles.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Listen very closely!
The point of this thread was to tell people not to grip al poeple that shop at wal-marts due to the fact that many have to!
And what have you done to help those that make under $17,000 a year?
All I see is a bunch of poeple yelling and no action to help those who needs help! If you hate Wal-Mart so much then do something to help those that need to shop there!
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VermontDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. What has Wal*Mart done?
Cut workers pay for lower prices they are doing more to make people poor then benefit those who are poor. Listen very closely I have a huge problem with how Wal*Mart treats it's customers as well as their employers. Stop using that argument because Wal*Mart hasn't done a damn thing for poor people, but funny how you can afford a computer and internet access while only making 5,000 a year.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. So you don't need to help because Wal-Mart won't?
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VermontDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. What is your point?
Your argurment is stop grubbling about Wal*Mart because you won't do something about the poor, my point is neither is Wal*Mart, if they want to help the poor how about offering decent wages as a start? I don't have the money to start up a department store but I can still critize republican-like corporations.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Well, if you can't afford a stamp...
Try mailing your reps., send letters to the paper, help with food drives (not just around the holidays either!) Find out stuff and sendit to your U.S Senetor! If you do nothing then you should not go a grip at those who just might need your help. Like the working poor!
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Where do you get the impression that no one is doing anything?
I've indulged in this "rant" of yours but I'm stopping now.

As I said earlier, dissing Wal-Mart and helping the "poor" are not mutually exclusive. You don't know what steps anyone here might have taken in either regard.

Wal-Mart is evil! People should make a living wage. I don't think you'll find anyone here who disagrees with that.

Good luck.
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Who told you I was looking for some one to say Wal-Mart is good?
This whole thing started when one got jumped for shoping there.You talk of how do I know what people are doing to help? I ask you what do you know about those here that needs to shop at wal-mart!?
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #61
71. OK, I'll stick my nose in now...
and note that around here, very few poor people shop in Whore-Mart. They put their stores in upper middle class areas with no mass transit. The parking lots are full of new cars, and the customers are well-dressed.

I'm not arguing with your point that some people need the lowest prices. I will argue over whether those are really the Borg's customers. We have some dirt cheap supermarkets and warehouse stores that knock them out, and many of them are in the lower income neighborhoods and convenient. Frankly, any retailer wants demographics with the highest incomes it can get, and the Borg sees no point in selling loss-leading food to poor people who aren't going to buy much of anything else.

I'm also not going to argue with you about the other places that treat their workers like shit. There's plenty of them around here, and many of them are the smaller local stores that the Borg is trying to shut down. Not all stores are unionized or give their employees any sort of benefits. Small warehouses and other businesses are often even worse.

Borg-Mart is the biggest and baddest, though, and they are the target. I appreciate that there are some places where there is little or no alternative, but being pretty much forced to shop there shouldn't stop anyone from trying to change the situation.

On the other hand-- voluntarily shopping there, when one has choices, I think is just plain wrong.



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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
68. I'm on a fixed income that's less than $17,000/yr.
And I get by fine without ever going to Walmart. If I had to choose between doing without something, or buying it at Walmart- I'd do without. And I do without a lot.

Bottom line: NOBODY "needs" to shop there. It's still a free country, and everyone has a CHOICE to patronize evil or not.
I choose NOT.
Your choice, and your TRUE values are obvious to everyone.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #68
72. I sort of like Big Lots myself.
Though not a large selection, there are some great deals on food. I'm not on the poverty level, but I do like to save a buck or two.
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jhfenton Donating Member (567 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
50. "Wal-Mart!"
I shop at WalMart regularly for basic household staples, for pool supplies, and for sporting goods, especially ammunition. (Their regular prices on ammunition are the best around, excepting bulk purchases over the Internet or at gun shows.) So I have mixed feelings about WalMart.

Regardless, I've long since concluded that if I try to avoid dealing with every business, musician, or actor whom I disagree with, I would have to live on a farm, grow my own food, make my own clothes, and generate my own electricity. I reserve my boycotts and political protests for politicians and overtly political entities.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #50
84. Those poor folks really need a break...
On pool supplies.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
60. I must respectively disagree LF
WalMart is creating the working poor, along with the poor and unemployed. For every job that WalMart creates in a community, 1.5 jobs are lost due to other business having to fold. They do not pay their workers a living wage(and they are the largest private employer in the country). They come into a community, undercut everybody's prices, even if they have to take a loss, and once the competition is driven from the field, jack their prices through the roof. This pattern has been repeated time and again.

Their predatory pricing tactics also affects the workers who labor in industries that supply WalMart. Due to WalMart's corporate clout, their suppliers are also forced to pay bare bones wages. This ripple effect runs throughout the economy, just witness the grocery strikes out west. The management is in effect saying to the striking workers that WalMart's competition is forcing the stores to pay low wages.

And I don't know what ruling is preventing you from forming a co-op. I also live in Missouri, and we have co-ops up here. If the law is strictly a municipal one, have your mailing address out in the county and run your co-op from there. Having lived in SW Missouri for a number of years, I know there are also farmers markets and independent farmers that sell food at a much cheaper price than WalMart. In fact don't even buy the hype that WalMart has the lowest prices. I've compared grocery prices at various stores around here and with WalMart. Most stores meet or exceed the WalMart prices, especially if they have a card program or do coupon programs. You do have options, don't buy into the WalMart hype.

And before you jump down my throat, yes, I have and continue to do lots to help the poor, both collectively and individually. I've worked voluntarily for various charities and also donated money to them. I focus on political/corporate issues because I feel that one has to not just cure the symptoms, but also attack the cause. And WalMart is most definetly one the bigger causes. Having been homeless for a while myself, it is the least I feel I can do

I think that you are feeling poor and desparete and buying into the WalMart hype. I've spent a fair amount of time in Joplin and I KNOW you have other options down there besides WalMart. Find them, for every dollar you spend at WalMart is a dollar that supports a corporation that is in the business of creating poor folk. Do you want that kind of karma on your conscience?
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Wal-Mart is not the only one doing it!
There are alot of working poor that work for other businesses than Wal-Mart! So if Things were done to help the working poor the business that Wal-Mart feeds on would be able to shop other places and Wal-Mart would fall!
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. No, Walmart isn't the only one doing it, however
WalMart far and away is the largest employer of working poor. And since WalMarts predatory pricing tactics force other business to pay bare bones wages also. If WalMart were to fall then other competing business wouldn't be feeling the heat to keep their wages so low. And WalMarts suppliers wouldn't be forced by WalMart to keep their wages so low. And so on and so on.

You know what the sad thing is? This is all a matter of a few cents per item. If WalMart would pay it's employees a decent living wage the price of their stock would go up by less than five cents per item. But WalMart is such a greedy monster that they can't do that. They have to squeeze every last penny from everybody. And our whole economy is starting to pay for it.

Speaking of paying for it, I hope you can also live with the fact that as a Missourian you are paying for monuments for the Walton spawn. Yes, Bill Lorrie paid twenty five million to build a new basket-ball arena in Columbia that he gets to name. You and I, as Missouri residents, get to pick up the rest of the thirty five million dollar tab. Oh, and we also are subsidizing the Lorries own private driveway, and the Kronke's overpass to the new Kronke mall here in Columbia. Such wonderful state welfare for such low-life scum. Think about that before you walk through WalMart's doors next time.

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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #62
83. You seem to be missing the big picture.
You repeated the same thing over, and over again, in an almost religious manner.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?;-)
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GregW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
63. I'm "working rich" ... and I shop at Wal-Mart.
They have what I need, they are convenient, and the price is right.

Anyone telling me where or where not to shop is a fascist.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. Shop wherever you like, it's your right.
Edited on Wed Oct-29-03 11:33 PM by Beaker
Just don't claim to be a progressive, a liberal, or a citizen with a conscience, because you've obviously put a price tag on your principles.
If you had any to begin with, that is.

(BTW- you may want to doublecheck your dictionary for the actual definition of a "fascist", cuz you're waaay off the mark)
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coyote Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #63
74. Fascist?
Edited on Thu Oct-30-03 07:38 AM by coyote
"Anyone telling me where or where not to shop is a fascist."


Funny that you say that, because you shop at a place that tells you what you can and cannot buy (cannot buy certain ladie mags, prescription medications, and movies).

Funny you do not apply your own definition of what is a fascist towards Walmart.
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coyote Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #63
75. Fascist?
"Anyone telling me where or where not to shop is a fascist."


Funny that you say that, because you shop at a place that tells you what you can and cannot buy (cannot buy certain ladie mags, prescription medications, and movies).

Funny you do not apply your own definition of what is a fascist towards Walmart.
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coyote Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #63
76. Fascist?
"Anyone telling me where or where not to shop is a fascist."


Funny that you say that, because you shop at a place that tells you what you can and cannot buy (cannot buy certain ladie mags, prescription medications, and movies).

Funny you do not apply your own definition of what is a fascist towards Walmart.
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SonofMass Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #76
82. I think GregW
heard you the first time.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #63
85. We can't tell you or hinder you from shopping where you wish
However I hope you, your conscience and your karma can live with the blood, sweat and tears of the sweatshop laborers, working poor, and unemployed that are a result of WalMarts business practices.

A lot of times the true price of something isn't on the sticker, it is in the souls of you and your fellow man.
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
86. Read Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed".
Find it at the library.
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SonofMass Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-03 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
87. Not to change the subject but
where does everybody buy their gas?
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