How does one write a novel when one can't write?

[Beware the Beast Man]

Okay, I've had this idea for a book based on my experiences living off campus with a bunch of freaks my sophomore year of college in the 90's. It's sort of like a "Catcher in the Rye" on cough syrup. I have a lot of great stories from that time that I could tell, but to be honest, I'm not much of a writer. So, great authors of DU, what is your take? Should I just take my chances or pitch my idea to someone with more discipline?

[RandomKoolzip]

1. It's bound to be better than "Bobby Dreamland."

Do it yourself, man.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

2. Two alternatives:

1) Learn to write. You can take creative and expository writing courses at most colleges. Expository writing was one of the most useful courses I ever took, because the instructor emphasized careful sentence structure and a logical progression of ideas.

When people are poor writers, it's often because they get lost in their own sentences or because they haven't clarified their ideas in their own minds.

2) Hire a ghost writer. However, that will set you back several thousand dollars.

[Maddy McCall]

3. Take your chance and write away.

Perhaps get input from a grad student at a local uni, but no one can tell your story as well as you can. :toast:

[Benhurst]

4. Don't let not being able to write stop you. Scores of best-selling

authors haven't let it stop them.

[graywarrior]

5. Read Steohen King's book "On Writing" and then follow his advice

Just write.

[Nevernose]

25. I'm not a big Stephen King fan myself, but by some coincidence

I went out earlier today and bought all of his short story anthologies and "On Writing." I've got a few ideas for short stories, and all the references I've checked on the subject seem to agree that King is the last master of the traditional short story form. Most of them also agree that the short story is also the most difficult form of prose to write in; I suspect I'm screwed, since I'm a lousy writer.

I've read many of his books, enjoyed several of them, and considered a couple of them of them to be quite good (It comes to mind, as do his Bachman books).

One thing that can be said for the man, regardless of critics' opinions of popular authors: he knows his craft.

[Droopy]

27. Yes, sir

That King fellow knows how to write. And he also knows that a provocative story will out-sell literature any day of the week.

[Nevernose]

32. Horseshit. People don't write "literature."

Well, maybe The Pretentious write literature, but most folks write to entertain people and hopefully make a few bucks on the side.

Shakespeare did damn well for a playwright in the 17th century, Mark Twain sold off autographed copies of Huck Finn like the Babtists were burning books on his back door, and Steinbeck's family are still cashing in on his success.

[Droopy]

34. Uh, that was my point.

[Nevernose]

36. I was just illustrating it for the potential mendicants' benefit

Yeah, that's the ticket ;)

[Droopy]

37. Cool

I gues I should have put literature in quotes.

[graywarrior]

29. Indeed he does. And he's an even better story teller in person.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

6. Write it yourself

I suspect you're just lazy, because your post is quite literate.

So, get off your butt and write down those stories that you now find so compelling. Give no attention to the style - just get the stories down.

Then, put it away.

A year later, take it out and read it. See what you think then.

[Beware the Beast Man]

9. Thank you! And you're right; I am lazy...

I have twelve pages so far that I have been sitting on for the past five years. Of course, dialog is the killer for me, as I'm sure it is for many. Not to mention I'm used to nonfiction writing from all the term papers I wrote in college

[skygazer]

11. Hint on dialog

Speak it out loud. Sounds kind of foolish but it does help. The key to dialog is for it to sound real and unforced - if you say it out loud, you really get an idea of what it sounds like and whether or not it sounds like something people would really say.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

18. Be careful with that technique

That's fine if you're writing for the theater or TV or the movies, but writing dialogue is a whole different monster when you're writing fiction.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Actually it holds true for the written word too, but most particularly

for contemporary popular fiction. (Obviously, if you are writing an Elizabethan novel, it's just gonna sound funny outloud AND in yer head. :P )

[skygazer]

7. Writing, like anything else, requires practice

People who write do it all the time. When they stop for whatever reason, they tend to get rusty. It's like anything else - Lance Armstrong doesn't just hop on his bike and go win the Tour de France. He practices.

Take a writing course. That's very helpful for learning discipline and forcing you to write every day.

Start a journal. It doesn't have to be anything interesting or even any good but it will get you to write every day and help hone those skills.

Try telling your story into a tape recorder. I personally can't write that way but a lot of people have good luck with it because they are better speakers than writers (I cannot speak. At all).

Try writing some short stories before tackling a novel. Novels require some structure and planning, even seemingly unstructured ones. Short stories help your develop a flow and a sense of structure in a more manageable form.

But don't give up before you try. We all have good stories within us - getting them out there is the trick.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

19. Not this writer

I write when I feel like it. Of course, you might call this post "writing," and, if that's the case, then I write regularly.

But, as for my work - which is writing fiction - the idea of my writing every day is something that makes my agent giddy and my editor hysterical.

I don't know any professional writers who write all the time. I can't imagine a drearier existence.

[skygazer]

20. Large shrug

You say banana, I say banahna. That's cool if it works for you - I write myself (fiction primarily) and I find if I'm not writing something (and it doesn't have to be "work") on a semi daily basis, I lose focus and rhythm.

The OP was asking how to write a novel when he, in his words, can't write. I suggested practicing. And I personally also find that speaking dialog helps me to keep it real - that works for me (for fiction, not screenplays and my dialog tends to be what people like best in my writing).

Just because something works or doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's going to be that way for everyone. I'm just trying to give the guy some ideas. Is that okay?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

23. Hmmmm.....

Since you clearly - and wonderfully - feel free to disagree with my opinions, what on earth is wrong with me disagreeing with yours?

The guy already figured it out, by the way - see his reply to my first post.

Shrug away, but don't hurt yourself.

[Beware the Beast Man]

44. Hey, you two- take it outside!

:D

[OldLeftieLawyer]

53. Will you come with us?

Hey, I have an idea!

It's a gorgeous day here, the sun's shining brightly, the air is crisp and dry and still cool, and I think we ought to pack a picnic lunch, fill up a cooler with Rolling Rockachachas, and head for the beach.

Or, at the very least, let's stretch out on the grassy slopes overlooking the Potomac up by Great Falls (Maryland side), and let the music of the torrents transport us on a Tuesday when everyone's supposed to be back at work.

How's that for "outside," hmmmmm? ;)

[tigereye]

48. actually OLL

a lot of well-known writers write everyday and very frequently, from what I have read. Or at least they say they do! William Styron, Michael Chabon, MArtha Grimes, etc come to mind. I think they feel compelled to write... or since that is their "work" they have to do it everyday.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

52. To each his own, natch.....

A lot of not-so-well-known writers write every day, too.

I take no issue with that. Hell, we all work in our own way. My methods are different from others', which is no big deal. There are others who write in the same way I do.

What I take issue with, though, is the hideous mistake of telling a neophyte that he should write every day.

Telling anyone that they should do it the way you do it is completely out of line, in my opinion, since, in the execution of any kind of art, it's part of the process for the artist to find his or her way.

That was why I took issue. That's all.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Get these books before you write a thing

"How to write a Damn Good Novel" by Frey

"STORY" by McKee (Explains how to set up a good plotline and ARCS for excellent tension.)

"Self-Editing for Fiction Writers" by Browne and King


Then join a writers critique group to get feedback as you go along.


Good luck! :^)

[Nikia]

10. Don't worry about a finished work yet

Since you post on DU, you have practice in writing small pieces. You could start that way. Instead of posting on DU, write these short pieces in a notebook. These writings may or may not be material for your novel. They don't have to be in any order. You could have sections in your notebook where you write about characters, scenery, plot. These writings will allow you to fully develop your ideas before undertaking the actual work.
When you do undertake the work, don't worry if there are problems with it the first time through. As I understand it, writing many drafts before arriving at a finished product is normal.

[evlbstrd]

12. Wouldn't you end up with the "Left Behind" series?

[xultar]

13. Just write it. Never mind punctuation and all the stuff just write what

you remember conversations etc. Pick small periods of time or specific incidents and then write them down. then weave a thread between the incidents.

Hire an editor. Then send it in.

[henslee]

14. download this free WRITER'S TOOLKIT from author Rudy Rucker...

a brilliant writer, mathmatician, etc. (who happens to loathe Cal Thomas). It really lays it out for you nice. How to create a NOTES DOCUMENT, HOW TO ORGANIZE IDEAS, ETC. Here is the link.http://www.mathcs.sjsu.edu/faculty/rucker/writerstoolkit.htm

[asthmaticeog]

15. Two words: Anne Rice.

I doubt you could do worse. Write it yourself.

[mitchum]

17. Damn, you beat me to it!

great minds :)

[welshTerrier2]

16. one word ...

badly ...

actually, why not start with a writing course or two ??

[Zuni]

22. Hell, a lot of best selling authors are pretty bad writers technically

they just have good stories. No need to try to be the next shakespeare, beastman. Alot of books are good even if they aren't great works of art.

Don't stop and beat yourself up in the middle--when you are done, rewrite parts you aren't happy with---trust me. If you get stuck constantly pondering over sections you don't like, you will never get anything done.

If your story is good and funny, people who arent artistic nazis will
probably enjoy it. Don't beat yourself up and just let it flow.

Oh and on dialog---if you or people you know wouldn't say it, it isn't good dialog. When writing dialog, think about who you are modeling the character on---lets say whoisalhedges, for example---and put in what he would say (no matter how offensive it may be to yourself):P.

:argh:

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. But, it helps to have some sort of a plan and some basic knowledge before

starting.

Trust me. My last clients brought me an ms that was in completely omniscient view. Every thought in every character's head sprawled out for the reader to slog through.

If they had known in the first place to figure out who has the most to gain or lose in a given scene, they would have restricted the pov to that character for that scene. (Hopefully this will be the case for their future books and I will not have to go back through and weed out the scattered points of view.)

[Nevernose]

26. A good example of that might be "As I Lay Dying"

A thoroughly confusing and ultimately rewarding book. IIRC, it played hell with perspective. It was always third person, yet always more (or less) sympathetic to whatever character that particular chapter was dealing with.

Is that what you meant by "If they had known in the first place to figure out who has the most to gain or lose in a given scene, they would have restricted the pov to that character for that scene?"

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. I haven't read that book so I can't be sure, except that if it refrained

from laying bare every thought that passed through the brains of all characters present in any given scene, then it did well. (At least on that count.)

I don't mind books with multiple points of view, just so long as each pov gets its own scene or chapter or section. Unfortunately, I do a lot of my work in the romance genre and many authors insists that we readers have to simultaneously "be" both the hero and heroine in the love scenes. It's very hard to talk them out of doing that. *lol*

[Beware the Beast Man]

28. Thanks everybody!

I think my biggest obstacle is a lack of discipline. You see, I'm a great idea guy, but putting those ideas into action isn't my strong suit. In fact, the subplot of the story is how the main character and his good friend from high school spend breaks hatching these wild ideas for films, books, TV shows and business enterprises, but they never come to fruition (sound familiar?).

[Nevernose]

35. Hemingway wrote standing up

He wrote standing up at a podium, longhand, on yellow legal pads. It was all about discipline, he said, and a writer had to approach his work as if it work and not some hobby. He also wrote, to the best of my memory, four hours a day, from seven in the morning to eleven -- or at least ten pages a day, whichever came first. That was probably so he could drink and whore the rest of the day, and the crazy son of a bitch did end up killing himself (apparently a family tradition), but the point from Hemingway's perspective remains the same: don't be lazy, and write.

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. Do what you can, and get those books I mentioned further up the thread.

[Droopy]

30. I'm in a similar predicament, Beastman

But the reason I'm stuck is that I don't have the expertise to write about the subject that I want to write about. I want to write about a mental illness called schizoaffective disorder, but I have no background in the mental health field except as a patient. I've got a pretty good idea for a book and I've got a good start. I want to include the personal stories of people with the disorder and then intersperse technical information between them. I'm sorely hurting for the technical information, but I've found many people who are open to telling their personal stories. Such a book would be very unusual within the field of mental health as most books on the subject are either memoir or scientific.

[Beware the Beast Man]

39. Perhaps for the more "scientific" explanations,

you could collaborate with someone, and focus on the anecdotal portion yourself.

[Droopy]

40. Yeah that's what I'm thinking

And people with this disorder can really write in their own voices from what I've found. It's as if the trauma they've been through has somehow made them great writers. Maybe my psychiatrist could do the technical aspects. I should ask him the next time I see him.

[Liberty Belle]

33. Go to a writer's conference and learn the craft!

There are many excellent ones. If you happen to be in Southern California, try SDSU's college of extended studies, or check out the Southern California Writers' conference. Many local colleges also offer fiction-writing courses.

Trust me, it works!

(published novelist)

[nickgutierrez]

41. I thought this was going to be a writer's block thread.

In any case, my answer doesn't change: sit down, and write whatever comes to mind. Don't worry about spelling, don't worry about grammar, just get it down on paper. Once that happens, then you can go back and edit and do all that fun stuff.

[jobycom]

42. Ghostwriters advertise in writing magazines

You have three options. One, write it yourself and see how it turns out. Two, take a few courses, learn how to write, write it yourself and see how it turns out. Three, work with a ghostwriter or co-writer. You can hire ghosts. No idea what they charge. You might want to run it past a couple of writers to be sure the idea is as good as you think before hiring a ghost, though.

It really depends on why you want to write this story. Some people want to see their story told, others want to have the joy of creating it. Your goal will dictate which route you take.

If you do write it yourself, you can hire editors and book doctors to clean it up for you. If it is too awful, you can have a ghost write from your manuscript.

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. We're expensive. I charged $1000 to overhaul the last manuscript

that came my way, and that was only partial ghost writing. (And unlike most of my colleagues I didn't charge an hourly rate on top of that, so I was practically giving my work away. :P )

[Droopy]

45. That's good information to know

I've often thought of hiring a ghost writer, but did not know what they charged or what was acceptable compensation.

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. We're all different. Just do a few googles for book doctors and

ghost writers and see what sorts of fees you can find. (I didn't charge an arm and a leg because I know I am lazy and that I would take at least a year to get the job done. Most people want it faster than that, but they will pay for the speedy turn around.)

[Droopy]

47. Do you think a ghost writer

would be able to write technical aspects of a book about mental illness?

[GreenPartyVoter]

49. Possibly. But I think you don't want to have them charge you for research

time if you can help it.

Also, don't think of a ghostwriter who just takes the material you have in mind, disappears for a year, and then returns with a beautiful book. Not all of us work that way. In fact my last clients insisted on seeing each chapter as I rewrote it, and they did a rewrite and then sent it back to me for a little more tweaking.

It all depends on what sort of working relationship you want to have with your ghost writer or writing coach. Just interview them until you find one whose work looks solid, price fits your purse, and is amenable to your plan.

But the more work they have to do the more $$ it will cost you. A book researched and written from scratch could cost thousands of dollars; possibly more than it will ever make back in royalties (which tend to be peanuts from what I understand.)

[tinfoilinfor2005]

50. One names ones self Lynn Cheney.

[Elidor]

51. "Catcher in the Rye" on cough syrup

That's a keeper. Unless the critics review it that way.