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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 09:30 PM
Original message
So I'm strongly considering converting to Buddhism
Edited on Wed May-25-05 09:32 PM by noahmijo
Without going into too much detail I was raised and baptized a Catholic. Interestingly I did not come from a "fundie" type home or anything, my father's pretty much an atheist, the influence was from my mother's side who always used the religion to justify acts of good and she never used it to teach me that gays are evil ect or anything like that.

Put simply all this time I always had a belief in reincarnation and equality for all, not just a few select groups, and I've always been fascinated with how Buddhists so calmly deal with life's issues, you know in the "take a moment to relax and think things through" sort of way and not in a kneejerk fashion.

The other issue is I just can't take this anymore seeing so many Catholics sink to a knee before the almighty Bush and Co.

Now I know there is a LARGE group of Catholics out there (many on this site) that dispute Bush, and the church itself. I can understand having a few disagreements with your faith, however I just can't just cope with the idea that the leadership is corrupt and immoral and this goes for all theocratic religions as far as I'm concerned.

I still believe that all religions in their own way are beautiful and I always enjoyed lighting candles before the Saints, however I grow tired of getting cast out because I don't believe gays should burn in hell, I don't believe if you live with someone who is the same or opposite sex and you aren't married that you go to hell, I don't like the "flock like" attitude where your leaders will cast you out should you dare question their authority.

Overall the idea of following a philosophy that to me seems to only demand a level of tolerance instead of obedience is more like the kind of philosophy I want to be a part of.

I ask for and welcome comments from anyone especially buddhists who can maybe give me a bit more insight.

Interestingly my girlfriend who is also a Catholic was thinking these exact thoughts today just as I was only she was too nervous to tell me about it just like I was too nervous to tell her about it (we went to church together ever since we met, and recently we stopped going because we grew tired of seeing the anti-gay anti-abortion propaganda that so plauges it)

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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Me too. I was just PM ing another DUer about the same thing.
He gave me some links. I'll pass them on to you in a PM in just a min.
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thanks :)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think it's a beautiful religion. I understand Quakerism is kind of a
mix. It has elements of Buddhism and Christianity according to some?

Best wishes in your decision. :hi:
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thanks I also want to point out though
I still would have a big soft spot for Catholics I would never forget all the good ones I met who helped me through tough times, leaving the faith isn't really so much a way of saying "I don't like you anymore" it's more of a my personal beliefs and feelings just lie on a different path.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Understood.
:hi:

I grew up learning the Hail Mary and other Catholic traditions, and my Mother was of Irish Catholic descent, so I understand both respect and chagrin for the faith.
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I have been interested in Society of Friends for years.
Quakers will use some of the best of each faith and they try to find the validity of all. It really takes alot of studying to "convert". I have been to a few meetings and I really like the idea of the "spirit moving you" to speak or remain silent. I also like the idea of learning for yourself and not having someone teach it to you. I have never felt calmer than when I went to a meeting.
If we had a liberal Quaker meeting closer to me I would seriously consider it.
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Buddhism isn't a "religion". In the strict sense of the word .....
"religion" means "re-linking" as in the linking of the creation (us)with the creator (G-d).

Buddhism doesn't have that outside source of power. Since Buddhism isn't a "religion" being a Buddhist doesn't really conflict with religion.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Buddha is not a god. He is a man. A wise man.
That's why the concept is not a religion.

Try reading The Tao of Pooh and The Te of Piglet for an easy introduction of principles. The author uses the characters of Winnie the Pooh as metaphors.
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. among other things, yes.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. PS ... In all honesty I don't view Christ as a God either.
Yet I consider myself Christian in a sense.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
35. I was taught that Jesus was a wise rabbi like Maimonides and Hillel.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Very interesting.
Thanks.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
32. Wanted to add another definition of "religion."
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

Though you clarified by stating "in the strictest sense of the word" I thought I'd mention the spirit that I referred to originally. :)

Peace
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #32
42. yes, religion does include all that. What I had in mind was ....
Buddhism is not a religion and because of that, it does not conflict with religion. Practicing Buddhism would be beneficial to anyone including those who continued to practice their "religion" right along with Buddhism.

The word "religion" comes from Latin "re-ligios" which is "relinking".
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. Ahhh, thanks again.
:hi:
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LilKim Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
39. To me, religion is what you do
It is a system of ethics and you express it by your practices and behavior. In that sense Buddhism is as much a religion as Christianity or Islam. Getting hung up on a Western God concept is very limiting and naively provincial.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Comment from an honorary Buddhist: good post...
nicely articulated; and it's not that easy a thing to put into words.

I see you heading toward the light.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. before you do please read thich nhat hanh's "living buddha, living christ"
you may find that the two faiths are closer then you think, and that for some folk they can be both a buddhist and a christian.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. That's one of my favorite books, not that I have any attachment
to it or anything. :D
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Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #29
43. hahahahahaha.
I've been waiting for an attachment joke. Thanks for providing.
:+
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caty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. I have been a
Buddhist for over 20 years. Buddha did not believe in organized religion. He believed that we should find our own path. If you say that your religion is in your heart, you are a Buddhist.

"Do not accept what you hear by report. Be lamps unto yourselves.

Do not go by what is handed down, nor by authority of your traditional teachings. When you know of yourself, only then accept or reject them.

All we are is the result of what we have thought.

Those who, relying upon themselves only, not looking for assistance to anyone besides themselves, it is they who will reach the topmost height.

Betake yourselves to no external refuge. Work out your own salvation with diligence." Buddha

Compassion and mercy are the keys. Live your life with compassion and ethics. Respect science and nature. Never stop educating yourself.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Compassion is the key
If I had to sum it up in one word.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. I am considered a Buddhist by all who know me
But I am far from a devout Buddhist. My beliefs tend to sway that way the most and it's how i try to live my life.
As many have said, it isn't a religion per say, but a philosophy. The truth is, you can be a Christian and still a Buddhist if you want.
the best thing to do is read, read read and study. It isn't really something that you will go get 'baptized" into, but will eventually start following the path and get to where you will get.
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm a Mahayana Buddhist
W/o going into too many details, it got rid of alot of the anger I had in my life concerning things either out of my control or related to my childhood. It literally saved my life.

Good luck.
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caty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. If you are serious or even just
curious, start by reading a biography of Buddha. Then you will understand that he wanted everyone to have their own religion that they could feel comfortable with. Because of this, there are hundreds of different kinds of Buddhism. I am a Buddhist-Taoist-Humanist. I learn compassion, mercy, and a desire for learning from Buddhisim. I learn common sense from Tao. I learn a respect for science and nature from Humanism.
I believe that god is a force of goodness. Everytime we say, think, or do a good thing, we send out that force. And, everytime we say, think, or do a bad thing, that is a force of evil.
Once you start studying Buddhism, you will find beliefs that you feel comfortable with and that will bring you peace. That will be your type of Buddhism. There is no wrong type--because it is yours.
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. I'm serious
I've been a Buddhist since I was 25. And I love this:

"I believe that god is a force of goodness. Everytime we say, think, or do a good thing, we send out that force. And, everytime we say, think, or do a bad thing, that is a force of evil.
Once you start studying Buddhism, you will find beliefs that you feel comfortable with and that will bring you peace. That will be your type of Buddhism. There is no wrong type--because it is yours."

Spot-on.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
19. If you're converting for political reasons, don't.
Conversion to ANY belief system implies a deep-down belief of the core of that system. Do you really, REALLY believe in the Buddha? Have you read their religious treatises, and do you understand what they are saying, and exactly what they believe? Can you follow that path with all your heart and soul, to the total exclusion of your "old" religion and all it implies?

The only way you'll truly convert and thus be happy will be to convert for real, lasting, and clear reasons. This is true for any conversion.
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caty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Buddha is not a god and always made that
clear. He just wanted everyone to find enlightenment through self study. There is no religious treatises or beliefs that you must adhere to in order to be a Buddhist. "Be a lamps unto yourselves".
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. A thought I've had quite often in the past
I always hypothesized Christ may have spent some of his "lost years" studying in a zen Buddhist monastery-- many of the things He said in the Bible have a distinctly zen flavor to them. As Buddhism is at least a thousand years older than Christ, I wouldn't doubt he would have absorbed as many of the core belief systems of the world as he could in his years of wandering, and zen Buddhism was a major one, and remains so.
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caty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. There were some old Buddhist writtings
found that told of a student with a name that could have been "Jesus" written in their language. Since it was so long ago, we will never know for sure. Just as the bible has been edited and revised so often that it is now a book of fable and legends. It all comes down to what you believe. Find strength in that.
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Yep
That's the key, I think.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
56. Amen
Politics should not have any place between a person and the almighty
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. I knew a congregationalist pastor who was into Buddhism too
Mix n match. Create the path you really want to travel.

I have some religion resources on my site, including links to Buddhism. Wander down through the sections in the left column and see if anything catches your eye: http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/liberalchristians.htm#row1

Good luck! :^)
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Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. Practice is the hardest part
Edited on Wed May-25-05 11:40 PM by Dora
By practice I mean sitting on your cushion.

It's worth it, however. Every tortured second of meditation really is worth it.

will that damn bell ever ring? how long have I been sitting here? am I done yet? ouch, my foot's asleep. who picked this incense? i hate sandalwood. I wish they'd used aloeswood instead. that new guy is cute. but he's fidgeting too much. will the bell ring yet?

We're a rinzai zen buddhist household.
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caty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. You don't have to sit on a cushion
or burn incense. Just find a quiet spot and meditate. You don't have to be uncomfortable. Meditate on what you want for the world, your country, your friends and family, and finally, yourself.
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Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Was your post intended for me or for the threadstarter?
Mode of practice is an individual choice. My husband and I actually prefer and appreciate the discipline involved with sitting on a cushion, and the formality of the incense, bells, and timed sitting give our meditation a ritualized comfort. As well, when we meditate, we don't meditate "on" anything.

My post was intended as humor. too bad there's not an emoticon for buddhist irony.
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caty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. That's great.
It's good that you have a ritual that you get so much comfort from. We all follow our own path. When I meditate, I reflect on what can make our world a better place. I agree, mode of practice is an individual choice.
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maveric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
27. Why do you need to join a religion?
Edited on Wed May-25-05 11:46 PM by maveric
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-25-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
30. It's a beautiful philosophy.
Edited on Wed May-25-05 11:50 PM by Bouncy Ball
I've been studying it, INformally, for about eight years now. I was drawn to the peacefulness of it.

Read a lot about it. Start meditating, but start slowly, just a minute or two at first.

I still consider myself Christian, but I am "spiritually eclectic" and Buddhism is another philosophical guide in my life.

Hey why can't Buddhists vaccuum the stairs? Because they don't have attachments! :rofl:

What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog vendor? Make me one with everything! :rofl:

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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
34. I follow urma's dad he has great books and audio tapes
Touting the Benefits of Buddhism for Non-Buddhists
Americans who don't want to embrace the religion still can gain by taking advantage of its practices, says Robert Thurman.

By Teresa Watanabe, Times Staff Writer


Robert Thurman has been called the Billy Graham of Buddhism. But not long into lunch at a Toluca Lake restaurant this week, Thurman — a Columbia University religion professor famed as the first Westerner ordained by the Dalai Lama — makes a startling declaration.

His tradition is not appropriate for most Americans, he says, and he has no intention of spreading it.


"I always say that Buddhism can only make its contributions in the West if Buddhists are satisfied with not being Buddhist," says Thurman. For example, he approvingly cites the healer John Kabat-Zinn, whose stress-reduction clinics employ Buddhist meditation techniques without promoting the tradition's complex teachings.

"He's not teaching them Buddhism, he's teaching them how to lower their blood pressure," Thurman says of Kabat-Zinn. "But all the methods are Buddhist and he's a Buddhist. Whereas, if you ran around and said you want to have Buddhist clinics in all the hospitals, everyone would freak out, starting with the local Baptist church."

So it is with his latest book, "The Jewel Tree of Tibet: The Enlightenment Engine of Tibetan Buddhism." The book, based on a retreat Thurman led on a once-secret text of a 17th century Tibetan master, encourages Christians, Jews and others to adapt the Tibetan techniques of visualization and meditation to their own traditions to cultivate self-understanding, compassion and wisdom.

The central practice involves visualizing a jewel tree filled with luminous enlightened beings pouring down their radiant light and blessings to drive away all doubt and anxiety, clearing the mind to meditate. But Thurman does not advise or expect those of other faiths to envision the pantheon of Buddhist masters as he does. Rather, he instructs readers to fill the tree limbs with their own spiritual mentors: angels, Jesus, Mary, Moses, Muhammad, Lao Tzu, even parents.

Buddhist methods without the Buddhism, in other words.

It may seem an odd stand for a man credited with helping to popularize Tibetan Buddhism in America. For more than 40 years, Thurman has studied and shared his tradition through his books, talks, academic activities and high-profile friendships with the Dalai Lama and Hollywood Buddhists, including actor Richard Gere, with whom he helped found the Tibet House cultural center in New York. But the point is not for people to become Buddhist, he says. It is to use the teachings to become compassionate, liberated and wise.

"We should not be selling religion and especially converting," Thurman says, adding that the Dalai Lama decades ago called on all religious leaders to stop trying to convert others because it only caused conflict.

Thurman, 63, passionately expounded on this subject and many others during his visit to the Southland, where he spoke to 1,000 people in Santa Barbara, attended a wedding and promoted his book. A tall man with tousled blond hair and one plastic eye — the result of an accident decades ago — Thurman booms out blunt opinions.

He riffs on the 2004 election (he voted for Sen. John Kerry) and the war in Iraq (he opposed it and wrote an e-mail to the White House reminding his president that Jesus said to love your enemies, not bomb them). He skewers religious fundamentalists and dissects what he views as the fallacies in scientific and theistic explanations of human purpose. He reminisces about his early days with the Dalai Lama, when both were in their 20s.

He talks Hollywood: Gere is a serious Buddhist; Brad Pitt never was. As for Thurman's actress daughter Uma — well, you'll have to ask her yourself. He says he exposed her to Buddhist teachings along with other traditions, including Christianity and Judaism, with the aim of teaching her to think for herself.

Raised in New York as the son of an actress and an Associated Press editor, Thurman attended Harvard until 1961, when a tire jack slipped while he was changing a flat and his eye was destroyed. Suddenly questioning his life's purpose, he left his first wife and daughter and went to India, where he began teaching English to Tibetan lamas. He returned to the United States and began studying Tibetan Buddhism with his first mentor, Geshe Ngawang Wangyal.

Ask Thurman what captivated him about Tibetan culture and philosophy, and he unleashes a stream of accolades. A more logical alphabet! Yoga! Holistic medicine! Mostly, he says, better philosophy than the Western thinkers he had studied at Harvard. The Buddhist idea of transcendent wisdom, of the "middle way" between self-indulgence and self-mortification, of selflessness as the foundation of compassion and ethical activity, was thrilling, he says.

"It wasn't like God or some new god or some Asian god," he says. "I was looking for better studies."

In 1962, Thurman met for the first time with the Dalai Lama, who soon took an interest in the Tibetan-speaking young American. The two eventually started meeting weekly; but, Thurman says, the Dalai Lama would refer his inquiries about Buddhism to another teacher and instead pepper him with questions about Freud, physics and other topics during the time they spent together. Over the reservations of Thurman's teacher, the Dalai Lama ordained the American.

Within a few years, however, the new monk resigned his robes, returned to the United States and, in 1967, married a former model, the Swedish-born Nena von Schlebrugge, with whom he has four children, including Uma.

Thurman says he had come to realize that he could do more to help others as an American professor than as a Tibetan monk.

He returned to Harvard for his advanced degrees and today heads Columbia's religious studies department as the Jey Tsong Khapa professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist studies.

Tibet and its Buddhism do not seem quite as trendy today as during the 1980s and '90s, an era when the Dalai Lama won the Nobel Peace Prize, Hollywood produced two films about Tibet, national magazines put Buddhism on their covers and Gere spoke out about Tibet at the Academy Awards (Thurman was an informal consultant on the films "Kundun" and "Seven Years in Tibet").

But Thurman says Buddhism's lessons are even more critical today, and believes it offers the world two key contributions.

The first, he says, is help in softening rigid identities — racial, sexual, religious, national — that cause conflicts.

The second is Buddhism's teachings on demilitarization. Every society that at least partially demilitarized at some point, he argues, had strong monastic institutions, including Tibet, India and Japan. Now, with soaring defense budgets and global conflict, Thurman says America and the world could use a surge of monasticism.

"A monastery, I think, would be a good place for John Rambo," he says, using a Hollywood metaphor. "Put that macho thing into self-conquest of their own inner life and world, instead of conquering other people and fighting and killing."
______________________________
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SarahB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
36. My ex-husband is.
Best thing he has ever done. He's a much more calm, tolerable human being now. While I don't want a relationship with him, we're always going to be parents together and it's nice to be one with someone who is more "at peace" so to speak. He was also born and raised Catholic.
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
37. Do you believe in God?
Buddhists are atheists. In fact, Buddhists are voidists: they think that nothing at all exists in truth. To them, everything is illusion and unreal.
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caty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. Some Buddhists believe in God
and some do not. There are Buddhist-Catholics, Buddhist-Jews, and many, many others.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #37
51. From what I understand, Buddhists believe that what causes our
suffering is largely the result of our illusory thinking. Life is dissatisfying, Buddha taught, because most of us are caught between illusory desires and fears. He then proceeds to lay out a way of mindfulness that help us to focus on actuality.

That's my nutshell summary. Read the Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path of Buddhism.

A Buddhist put it very nicely when he said that happiness (or negation of desire and fear) lies in wanting what you have. That is not as easy as it sounds and is, in fact, quite revolutionary in our consumerist society.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
38. Good idea
What I find most refreshing about Buddhism is there is no dogma, no pressure and lots of open-mindedness.



Some reading ideas include:

Buddhism Without Beliefs by Stephen Batchelor

Buddhism for Beginners by Thubten Chodron


Helpful Websites:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/

http://www.tricycle.com/issues/tricycle/
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
40. For what reason do you want to leave Catholicism and
go to Buddhism. The Dalai Lama made a remark about it as well. He said that it is better to work with the religion you have been brought up then to change into something which is alien to you. If it has more to do with a dispute over the Church then over the teachings then it might be wiser to seek a different Christian Church or go your own way.

Exploring Buddhism (and Hinduism, Taoism, Janaism etc.) is very good and will allow you to get a broader view on the world and different interpretations of life. There are many excellent sites. You can start with http://belief.net which has contains most religions and philosophies and has links to many websites for more detailed study.

There are big differences between Catholicism and Buddhism. The major difference is the concept of God which is not present in Buddhism (there are gods, but they are beings on another level which can guide you, but who can't help you directly). However many concepts are universal so it can be applied to most philosophies. The same applies to the other Eastern philosophies and they'll often overlap for that reason as well.

As far books go I recommend "Dalai Lama - The Way of Freedom" which is an overview of the concepts of Tibetan Buddhism and is based on a modern day retelling and simplified version of Atisha's "Lamp for the Path to Enlightenment" (11th century) which is the original teaching on Buddhism coming to Tibet. (Buddhism came to Tibet during the 8th century as well but was oppressed later, however that teaching is still practised by the Nyingmas - one of the four major sects in Tibetan Buddhism)
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. It's just another religion, no better, no worse
Edited on Thu May-26-05 08:31 AM by Onlooker
Buddhism may do a better job at fulfilling your spiritual needs, but keep in mind the nations where it is prevalent -- Cambodia, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Japan, Tibet, China, Thailand -- are as a group just as bad as the nations where Christianity is prevalent. The problem is not with a religion, it's with religion period. Buddhist culture seems to give rise to the same amount of greed and abuse as other religions do. If you must have religion, look at the Unitarians, who seem to accept everyone, even atheists.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. That's what I meant to say as well
I don't agree with your conclusion. The problem is not the religion, but organised religion. Organisations tend to corrupt. Regardless of what kind of an organisation it is. Corporations, governments, churches have a powerstructure and having power leads to an increased chance of corruption and indeed the Buddhist have had their share of corruption and still have it, but it's the inherited problem with organisations.

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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. I was mostly concurring with you
But, I do think that religion is almost always dogmatic, self-righteous, and exclusive, and that tends to create an opportunity for people to hate others. Of course, one could also argue that without religion, people who hate others (like Falwell and Robertson) might be even worse!
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
45. I'm considered an agnostic buddhist.
I don't think one "converts" to buddhism as much as one embraces the teachings. Of course, the teachings of one sort of run hand-in-hand with the teachings of Christ.

I second the above poster that suggested "Living Buddha, Living Christ"

Gandhi once stated, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Just something to think about.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
46. I am Episcopal and I am very happy with my religion.
Happiness and truth are what matter. What makes you happy or at peace is where you need to be. More power to you!
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caty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Exactly!
:grouphug:
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
49. If I had experienced a steady diet
Edited on Thu May-26-05 08:59 AM by PATRICK
of hellfire, anti this or that in upstate NY OR been someone with a long memory for the old Catholic school days of super strict straight jackets and stultifying forced devotions I might understand better. Here there is a fringe active on the anti-abortion side that the mainstream probably wouldn't trust to park their car in back of the church. Usually catholic fatigue sets in with young adults fairly regularly- until they have kids. Oddly, maybe for lack of imagination or getting to the core, the very old, and I mean obsolescent, reasons are put up front. The strict nuns(you can hardly find a nun any more even in catholic schools much less an abusive tyrant in an old frock), the hypocrites in the front pews, the changes in the church. Oddly too that since Vatican II it has been conservative flight and fundie flight that bemoans with nostalgia the loss of "tradition".

What you probably need(maybe not want) is something very hard to find in Christianity since the religion became legal in the fourth century, a genuine supportive faith community. Jesus of Nazareth would be the first to sympathize with a person of genuine faith looking elsewhere because of the scandal given by others touting themselves as authorities or exemplars of the "faith". Also the methodology and relative faith neutrality of Buddhism is a valuable spiritual method for anyone in these wacky times. Christians avail themselves of it with no need for the big step of apostasy.

There is something about RC's that sees short skirts and makeup or missing mass as a rite of passage from guilty rebellion to agnostic indifference. Someone going beyond this typical "fallen catholic" growth stage to instead continue their spiritual search is to be commended and encouraged. If the community or leadership(the Pope, arghh) is weighing you down consider whether they are living up to the short and simple dictates of the founder(and whether you are either). It is no real surprise that Christians have common shortcomings but maybe I have been fortunate in my experience to find most Catholics very good people who have benefited from their faith and shared with others in simple ways. I have seen and known the worst and the best and the most mediocre too. You won't be defined by your label in the end but by your values and integrity- in action.

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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
52. There's no god like no god.
B-)
Perhaps it is time to de-clutter your thinking.
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FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
54. I practice Nichiren Buddhism
Edited on Thu May-26-05 03:02 PM by FizzFuzz
In response to your last remark, that you're tired of anti-gay, anti-abortion propaganda in the Catholic church--I'm proud to say I marched with the Nichiren Buddhist group as they led the Buffalo NY Gay Pride Day march. I subscribe to the Nichiren buddhist weekly newspaper, which always has articles featuring people's experiences chanting and overcoming problems, and I am glad to say that often, gay and lesbian members are featured telling their stories--and, what I really love, is that the focus is on that person's growth and and life as a whole, not some token story focusing on gayness to the exclusion of all else. Gee wiz, gay people are human beings! Amazing ;) (Gay/Lesbian/Transgendered folks have a life and job and health and relationship issues besides the issues specific to being gay.)

Nichiren Buddhism teaches that happiness is the development of personal strength that can surmount suffering--and that all people contain the highest potentials of growth and dignity within them, regardless of gender, color, etc. That ability to bring forth one's highest potential IS happiness; not the retreat from suffering, but the courage to engage and transform it.

It follows the teachings of Nichiren, a 13 C Japanese Buddhist sage. His intense studies of Buddhism led him to realize that the Lotus Sutra was Shakyamuni Buddha's highest teaching, and that within the sutra, Shakyamuni taught the Law. Nichiren perceived the Law to be called Myoho-Renge-Kyo (which is the title of the Lotus Sutra, and heads each of the 28 chapters). He taught that the chanting of the title, prefaced by "Nam", or "devotion to", along with faith and study of the Buddhist teachings, was the way of practice that Shakyamuni explained would spread in the Latter Day, after his death. INterestingly, he was also quite clear that faith develops as actual experience of personal change and growth accrues. Not blind faith. Also, personal change will always lead to environmental change, in keeping with the well know Buddhist wisdom that "all is one"--we and our environment and everything in it are all interconnected, dependent upon one another for survival. Ripples, as many DUers have been talking about.

The Lotus Sutra teaches that Buddhahood is an inherent facet of life, inherent within the 9 worlds that all human life experiences from moment to moment. It teaches that infinite potential and possibilities exist within a single moment of life; therefore, we as human beings can elevate our lives, learning and improving always.

It also taught the absolute equality and respectworthyness of all people. The Lotus contains the example of a female attaining enlightenment, and also of an evil man(previous sutras taught that evil persons also could never attain enlightenment), the first teaching ever to that point to teach the equality of women. Women in that society were less than livestock, so this was truly revolutionary. Previous to the L.S., Shakyamuni had limited the possibility of attaining enlightenment to certain groups of practitioners, but in various places in the L.S., he expalins that those earlier teachings were provisional, meant to suit what people at the time could understand, and that the L.S. contains the entire truth that he was enlightened to. (With regard to the dignity of all people--I have to admit I'm working on this. It's a struggle to "get" it; intellectually I know its true, but to put into practice when faced with people who drive me nuts is reallllllllly tough. If you know what i mean. ;) )

Its pretty complex, and I'm not a major Dharma expert, so I can only explain a bit, but in terms of eradicating desire, that was focused on in Shakyamuni's earlier sutras (sutra is Sanskrit for "teaching").

The Lotus, and Nichiren taught that desire itself is not the problem--without desires, we would have no impulse to live--but rather, being overrun by them. Instead, we practice mastery and purification of our desires, so that we use our desires as motivation to grow and improve ourselves. This enlargement of our own life naturally leads to compassion and efforts to help other people improve thier lives. It also opens practice to anyone regardless of where they are starting out from. You don't have to already have refined awarenesses or enough material comfort or high enough IQ to say you can now separate yourself from material needs. Some people start this practice because they have bottom line survival needs that aren't being met, and they need a way to overcome being stuck in that place.

The point is that enlightenment is not in some far away removal to an isolated place of serenity, but rather, enlightenment is the ever growing ability to bring forth the Buddha qualities of Wisdom, Courage, Compassion and Life-Force, to dive into life as it exists now, and create value in this reality. I find that chanting the mantra Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo revs up that energy or life force, to use towards facing and contributing well to the life I live.

The eightfold path, a sort of 10 commandments of correct behavior and attitude are contained within this practice of self-reflection and action.

Here's an article that was published in Tricycle that gives a good intro to the Soka Gakkai, the group or sangha I practice with.
http://www.gakkaionline.net/soka/TRICYLE.pdf
Here's another link that explains some history, Nichiren's teachings, etc.
http://www.everlife.org/introduction.htm

Well, as usual, I've gotten a little verbose, but I hope this is helpful! :)
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-26-05 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
55. I wouldn't do it if I were you
C'mon dude. Didn't CCD teach you that Buddha isn't the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world?
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