There was a time....

[ScreamingMeemie]

When I thought I had nothing interesting to add to the conversation.

When I would click and re-click on my threads (before my posts) to see if anyone had respond and I would actually get excited when somebody had (okay, I still do that...it's just easier).

When I had about 35 posts to my name and somebody insinuated that I was a troll.

When I thought somebody had me on their ignore list because they never seemed to respond to my posts.

When I decided to moderate and met a lot of really cool people that I still shout out to (and they me) when we run across each other.

When I realized I had a ridiculous post count.

When I realized what it means to respond...even to the last post on a thread I had started.

When I realized that something I posted could be taken the wrong way.

When I realized just what a good community of people this was when I was sick...and a lot actually cared.

When I found myself getting excited over lunch with another DUer...and wasn't even worried about what to say, because I already felt like I had known her forever.

When it became clear that Skinner/elad/EarlG has given us some wonderful tools to hide what bothers us and emphasize that which we find important.

When it hit that any experience is what I make of it...including DU.

Have a good day DU.


For those who feel left out at times...a good start really is moderating. You'll get an inside look at the stuff admin and mods have to deal with, and you'll meet a ton more people. It's amazing what that little gray guy next to your name can do.

[kick-ass-bob]

1. Ignored.

Ignored.

:P

:loveya:

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. OH Goody! A reply!!!

Too bad I can't see who it is!!! I ignored you first. :P :7


:hug:

[fluffernutter]

2. have a good day yourself, MG

:hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. Thanks fluff!

:hug: So far it's beautiful...and I have this feeling that I should be gardening!

[ewagner]

4. Thanks for describing

what a lot of us go through on DU....it's a great community....

:hi: :loveya:

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. I think so too.

And I think it gets distorted sometimes.


How are things with you guys?? We finally have sun!!!

:loveya:

[ewagner]

17. On and off sunshine

still pretty cool here ---in the 50's....but the friggin' grass keeps growing!!!!!! had to do the lawn thing yesterday afternoon...Mrs e wants me to plant a veggie garden....I hate gardening......we'll see.

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. Well...when you're done with that...I've got these tomato plants...

;) MrG hates gardening too, although he is a good armchair gardener. :)

[ewagner]

37. Armchair gardening???....hmmmmmmm

Thanks, I'll try that.....mrs e will be soooooooo happy :P

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. Just don't tell her who you got the idea from...

I'd never forgive myself. ;)

[ewagner]

45. You're safe......

I wouldn't sell you out for anything!!!! :loveya:

[Zomby Woof]

6. I am so tired of this topic

The poor horse! His corpse is beaten beyond recognition.

I am going to go gouge out my eyes with a rusty spoon now.

The issue was *never* about cliques or "belonging". It was about the nature of a mob mentality and following DU's rules.

It was NEVER about people worrying about being left out, picked last for kickball, or whatever.

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. I disagree, and I posted this for myself. I think it's about people's

own personalities and their thought processes. It is what it is for me, at least. :hi:

[Zomby Woof]

11. So many of these threads are self-serving

They all have the same basic message: "If you want a friend, be a friend!"

The real issue is: NO ONE is above the DU rules, and beware of the pack mentality.

I think everyone agrees that cliques are a peripheral issue, at best, with little disagreement about their basic worth.

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. I think I did it for more than that, but okay, if that's how you feel

Zomby, so be it. For me, it's an illustration that things are not always what they seem. But I'll wear the self serving title if you wish. :shrug:

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gardenista]

26. I don't think that Zomby was "pissing" on this thread.

Just my opinion. I think he was trying to get at the real issue here.

It's not about whether you were in the cool group in highschool, and now feel left out.

Honestly, I don't think anyone really cares whether they "belong" at DU, as long as others are civil.

Do you think the kid getting beaten up by the "cool" jocks wanted to be a jock? No, that kid just wanted to live his/her life, and have his/her opinions respected, and play D & D with his/her equally "uncool" friends.

This is not about belonging. It's about following the DU rules, which we all agreed to when we registered here.

[Texasgal]

38. Funny...

All I have been reading as of late is people freaking out because they felt like they didn't belong.

What gives?

[Madrone]

40. Texasgal -

Zomby and mgdecombe are 100% accurate in their assessments. This is a shared sentiment amongst many of us on this board - many of whom you will not see a post regarding this from.

As for all the reading you've been doing about people "freaking out because they felt like they didn't belong" - what you are seeing is a lot of people posting numerous threads *saying* people are freaking out that they don't belong. That's not the same thing. It's exactly Zomby's point.

It's called reframing the debate.

[Texasgal]

42. With all due respect...

I believe this all started with Skinners post about him being an outcast in his younger days..... followed by a half a dozen stories about people's own experiences about being an outcast and how it made them feel.

I could pull up atleast a hundred threads regarding that.

I don't think that anyone has said that you shouldn't be following the rules, you and just a *few* people have brought up that premise.

Talk about re framing.

[Madrone]

43. .....

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Texasgal]

48. What is so difficult here?

Why is this so hard to understand?

Have you not read the GAZILLION posts about how people felt like they didn't belong? Have you read that so many people have felt intimidated?

This isn't about not following the rules, this about people thinking there are some cliques here.... I think it's our duty to set them straight.

Actually, when I first got here, I too thought the lounge was a bit clique-y, that was until I jumped in with both feet. I felt like that... are you gonna tell me that I'm wrong? That I didn't have that issue?

LOOK:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3248244&mesg_id=3249197

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3248244&mesg_id=3249267

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3248244&mesg_id=3249387

Now... how many links do you need for me to get my point across?

[gardenista]

75. You are right, Madrone, that is exactly what it is.

Reframing the debate.

Makes an interesting study, really, in how it works under any circumstance.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

41. Funny,

That's not what I've been reading at all. I've been reading threads that say that that is the only problem: people feeling like they don't belong. Along with a message of 'get over yourself, 'be a friend' 'join in' etc.

I've read a whole lot of other threads where posters have talked about the pack mentality. About posters who feel they are above the rules. Posters who hate the pile on that occurs in other forums when a DU dares to take a different position from one of the 'in crowd'. (As Mrs Grumpy posted check out the archives in GD Politics during the primaries.) That's what I've been reading. Then I read more posts along the line of 'get over yourself', 'be a friend' 'join in'. etc. It's as if we're talking past each other.

Read Skinner's thread. I think it's titled "now that things are calmed down". Read what he says about pooh-poohing this whole clique, pack mentality problem.


best

[Bouncy Ball]

47. Where people aren't following the rules, alert needs to be used.

That's why it's there. And it is that simple. If alert doesn't seem to be working, an email to an administrator might be in order.

[gardenista]

76. BB, both have been used, I can assure you.

And the admin is surely watching how these discussions pan out, hoping that we can work this out amongst ourselves.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zomby Woof]

49. MrsG is a good friend of mine!

She expects me to be unvarnished and rather crusty with my opinions. She knows where I am coming from even when we disagree, as is our right to as friends.

[gardenista]

19. Agreed. Enough of the self-serving clique threads that distract from

the real issue.

Mrs. G, I like your posts, and always enjoy your threads, and understand the sentiment behind them, but this is not about cliques, or being friendly...

I have 1000+ posts, and have been here since 2003. I don't post that much, so most people don't know me, especially in the lounge. But I have been on the wrong side of the pack more than once, and *that* is the issue.

It's probably not for us to sort out amongst ourselves without admin. involvement.

Thanks for your lovely sentiments, Mrs. G, but it's not about feeling welcome. Its' about fighting fair when we disagree, about thinking for ourselves, and about *everyone* being subject to the same set of rules.

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. Sorry, but I will always disagree, and these are not just lovely

sentiments...at least not for me. It's truth. It's what most human beings feel at times...rejection and then acceptance. Point blank. But if you wish to put them into a category as lovely sentiments, so be it.

FWIW, my dearest friend in the entire world is also a DUer who doesn't post nearly as much as most here. Her thoughts on the situation? Exactly the same as mine. Although I guess some would chalk that up to coercion. Have a nice day. :hi:

[gardenista]

28. And your truth is lovely.

Again, this is not about rejection and then acceptance into some sort of "insider" group.

It is about following the DU rules, and having them enforced equally.

You have a nice day, too. Interesting that you would use that final tag line.

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. But would you not agree that that boils down to perceived popularity?

That somehow some get away with more than others, because of who they are?

My last sentence in the original post is the ultimate truth. When I moderated last year it was an eye opener into the workings of this place. And I can say assuredly, all are treated the same. I saw people who were "adored" by many, or from your stance, treated well, banned. It is what it is.

I end my posts with have a nice day to keep myself civil. I do it all the time in GD...because my intentions are never to pick and/or encourage a fight. Even though that sometimes happens anyway. :hi:

[gardenista]

74. Thanks, Mrs G.

(are you sure you are well-named? And that's not sarcasm.)

I don't know if that's what it is, really. I do know that long-time posters are cut a little bit more slack before being banned, particularly if they have a history of positive posts, and little history of warnings, deleted posts, etc.

Usually people who have posted for a long time have developed some friendships here, which is great, and natural, and all to the good, and some of them are even what you might term "popular". But a *very* small number of those "popular" posters also skate a very, very fine line, and they tend to develop a cadre of "followers" who get in line to support them if they are in disagreement with other posters.

I will give you my own example. I questioned the tone of some threads a few weeks ago, and I was *hounded* from thread to thread by the same 3-4 people, accused of being a troll, accused of being a sock puppet, and finally, accused of having a "pattern of posting" that indicated that I was those things. Obviously, my accusers never researched my "pattern of posting", which is sporadic, and normally very benign and undoubtedly supportive of all the things that DU stands for. DU does not stand for name-calling, making fun of someone's religion, or accusing fellow members of having mental disorders simply because they call it like they see it.

This behavior has continued, and any time I get involved in a discussion of this sort, i.e., group dynamics in the lounge, I am harrassed by at least one of those people. A few days ago, the discussion culminated in an announcement that there was a chat open for people who wanted to discuss others "taking things too seriously". Which I guess if fine, but the announcement of this in the lounge was an obvious dig at me, and at other posters who agreed with me. It is a mob-mentality, and it is unacceptable. Yet, it is allowed to continue, and those members who participate in these high-school games are allowed to skate on the edge.

I had heard of this kind of thing in the past on DU, but had never experienced it myself. And though it's bothersome, it's not really a huge deal in the context of my life. It does, however, make me lose faith in the future of DU.

Those who might argue, and they do, and they will, that the "ignore" feature is the answer to this problem lies in the "ignore" buttong do not show a genuine concern in the future growth and health of this community. Generous deployment of the "ignore" feature is not conducive to a healthy future of this forum.

Finally, Mrs. G, I want you to understand that this is not meant to put down your thread, which I think is very informative, and reflective of the vast majority of the posters here. My goal is to clarify that this is not about a popularity contest. My goal is to point out that there are sometimes mean-spirited efforts to silence posters who do not go along with the status quo, and who question the majority opinion. And I am convinced that if anyone reading this post looks into their heart of hearts, they know that fron time to time, people get ganged up on here, in a really vicious, pack-mentality way. And quite often it is for no good reason, and certainly not for the good of DU or other posters.

And this I mean with all my heart, becuase I have absolutely no reason to wish otherwise. I hope you have a nice day, too. :hi:

[Zuni]

53. Interesting?

I think it is politeness

[gardenista]

77. Mrs. G, you are right,

and I apologize for taking that as sarcasm. I've seen the same phrase and smilie used to that effect.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kick-ass-bob]

10. there is a really simple, easy cure for what ails you.

please exercise it.

(and it's not gouging your eyes out, there's not a need for that.)

[youthere]

34. There really is a smiley for everything...

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. If one is into violent depictions that is.

:hi: <<<< I find that smiley to cover pretty much everything.

[Zuni]

52. Hey MrsG

:hi:

[Bouncy Ball]

46. I'm confused, Zomby.

Because I read many, many posts that consistently said it WAS about those things.

:shrug:

I'm pretty sick of the topic myself. But this just confuses me, because I was hearing it was about feeling left out, etc, and now it's NOT about that?

[Zomby Woof]

58. Anyone who feels 'left out'...

...is also missing the point. I know a few people complained to that effect, but THEY TOO are as guilty of missing the point as the "want a friend/be a friend" posters.

I would agree that anyone seeking to 'belong' is following a very human social impulse, and I understand their frustration, and I understand the many attempts to remedy that by good people like MrsG.

But I really think the subtext here, or at least in the many threads about the matter, is that people are VERY frustrated with the banning of a member they liked, and are using the very few "left-out" posters as a red herring to safely express that frustration.

[Beware the Beast Man]

51. There's a little gray box with an "x" in it.

Through the miracle of modern computing, single-clicking said box makes the thread disappear! Who'da thunk it?

[Zomby Woof]

59. I don't hide threads by friends

And MrsG is a good friend of mine.

[Beware the Beast Man]

61. Fair enough.

I think the "clique" talk's getting tiresome as well, and friend or no friend, I'm starting to hide them.

[terrya]

57. Use the ignore function if you don't want to look at a thread.

One would think, after all this time, that you would have picked up on that particular feature by now. :eyes:

[Zomby Woof]

60. Again...

MrsG is a good friend of mine, and I like reading what she has to say. My lack of commentary in related threads is because of hiding the threads. I wanted to comment on her post, and I did so. People should not expect my opinions to be popular or mainstream.

I am well-acquainted with the ignore feature, yes.

[auntAgonist]

9. I too hope you have a wonderful day Mrs G!

Thanks for writing what you did. I think a lot of newer folks will really appreciate it.


aA
kesha

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. I love your avatar! How are you doing these days?

I only posted this because we've all been there, and some days I'm still there. :hug:

[auntAgonist]

22. I'm doing fairly well ..

thanks for asking! :hug: Some days better than others. I hope you're feeling good these days! Finally a little warmer weather coming our way, that always helps!


:hug:
k.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. 'bout time we got some sun! I was just telling MrG that I wanted to

move the computer upstairs...but we've no place to put it.

:hi:

[Taxloss]

12. I know what you mean.

:yourock:

As I've found out it only takes a second's misjudgement and something you should not have said is said and nothing can be done. The only thing that's worse than worrying that people think you're an asshole is actually genuinely being an asshole on an occasion, and then realising what you've done.

For the instances I have in mind of this, I've made my peace, but it's a learning experience of the most galling kind. It IS a learning experience, though.

[ScreamingMeemie]

18. I started out on a hugely wrong foot with some people who have

since become DUers I look forward to hearing from. The primary wars were a killer. I am almost thankful that I was a mod and pretty much had to refrain from an opinion. :hi:

You are right about it being a learning experience. I used to be quite cynical and I've learned not to be.

[Taxloss]

29. I've learned not to go online drunk.

That's a killer. But I've also learned that if you're happy to admit you've been an asshole, people are happy to forgive, and that's worth a hell of a lot.

[ScreamingMeemie]

33. Heehee. I recently looked back at a post I made while on painkillers

It's best to stay away on those days. ;)

[In_The_Wind]

13. Hey Have A Really Good Day ~ MrsGrumpy

:hi:

:hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. You too Joan!!!

Yaaay! The 700 club!!! Have a sinfully good time!! You get to do it twice!!! :bounce: :hug:

[In_The_Wind]

73. Yes - This is my second time to pass this way !

However - it seems as if this time - I'm a little too busy to do an ask me anything 700 Club thread AND there are only a few chosen members at DU to whom I'm willing to offer a *tell all* option.

:hug: :hi:

[TheProphetess]

20. I appreciate the sentiment

Thanks for being positive - these types of posts are much more enjoyable than the sarcastic ones that appear to be making fun of Skinner's comments about the Lounge.

This one is a nice breath of fresh air. :hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

25. Thanks a whole bunch.

My point was basically that (to use a cliche') you get out of things what you want. I've gotten a lot more out of DU than I ever thought I would the day I signed up.

Whatever the problems, real or perceived, on the whole, I wouldn't change a thing.

:hi:

[TheProphetess]

36. You are very welcome

and the thoughts you posted reminded me of a saying that goes something like "if there are two ways to interpret something I've said and one of those ways makes you sad or angry, then I meant the other."

I honestly believe that we should try hard to give one another the benefit of the doubt (and I'm preaching to myself here, because I'm certainly not perfect). Anyway, I enjoyed your self-reflection of the time you've spent at DU so far - here's to many more happy times! :toast:

[JimmyJazz]

24. Great post!

:loveya:

[ScreamingMeemie]

32. Hey!

:hug: :loveya: Good to see you!

[Wapsie B]

44. How true.

Very well put. It's not that I ever felt left out. That's just something I've had to deal with wherever I go. But because there's so many topics for discussion here I feel more like coming out of myself to interact with others. :hi:

I'd like to know what kind of time committment there is with being a mod.

[ScreamingMeemie]

63. It is not as bad as it would seem. An hour or so a day is all some

spend. I am just bored a lot. ;)

I'd say give it a shot. You'd like it! And you'd be good at it!

[Wapsie B]

68. I could handle an hour a day.

I just wouldn't want to put an extra load on someone else though. Thanks for the vote of confidence! You just made my day Mrs. G! :)

I may look into a mod position the next go round. I'm always curious about the inner workings of things.

[MissMillie]

55. MrsG... you are so eloquent

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

64. Thanks.

:hi: :)

[Magrittes Pipe]

56. I can't believe anyone would get on your case for this thread.

This was a beautiful post. And you are entirely correct. I suppose some people can only be fulfilled by tearing others down.

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. It was not my intent to irritate others. I was posting personal experience

on how my days here have gone up and down. Thanks who!! :hi: :hug:

[Zomby Woof]

66. I don't see anyone on her case

Myself and a few others disagree, but not with any ill intent. I love MrsG too much to ever tear her down. :shrug:

[Magrittes Pipe]

69. I can't imagine anybody *not* loving MrsG.

I got the impression that you were referring to her thread as "self-serving," when I found it to be anything but. If that's not the case, I humbly apologize for the misunderstanding. :)

[Zomby Woof]

72. To clarify

That was clumsy of me. In general, I find posts being defensive about cliques that way (perhaps 'defensive' is a MUCH better term than 'self-serving'), and should have, emphatically, should have made it clear I don't see her or her post that way. My intended target was the threads which say "I like everybody! I am not part of a clique!", as if the very mention of the word is poison, when it shouldn't be. Cliques are inevitable, and should never have been the issue, even if I am wrong about why these posts keep reoccurring.

I find the tag-team mentality a bit troublesome, even if the targets are justifiably disliked. But cliques? Not even on my radar.

My initial knee-jerk use of the term "self-serving" served me poorly, since it looks like I was after MrsG, when in fact, I was just giving her my usually crusty and worthless two cents. :-)

[gardenista]

78. I think we are unified on that.

It's not Mrs. G that this is about. It just happens that her thread was the tipping point, after countless "clique" threads.

[Lavender Brown]

62. I just don't get how what happened last week relates to all this

clique talk. Unless it's coming from some other incident that I missed. That whole thing seemed to be about something else entirely, and now people are using it to talk about whether they do or do not think there are cliques. Oy vey! :banghead:

[ScreamingMeemie]

67. I don't know either. I do know that not every day here has been a

wonderfully fullfilling experience for me, and I only have myself to blame for it. :hi:

BTW, always good to see you!

[tigereye]

71. all right!

nicely said Mrs. G.

:thumbsup:

and :hi:

[RevolutionaryActs]

70. There was a time....

There was a time
When I was so broken hearted
Love wasn't much of a friend of mine
The tables have turned, yeah
'Cause me and them ways have parted
That kind of love was the killin' kind
Listen, all I want is someone I can't resist
I know all I need to know by the way that I got kissed

I was cryin' when I met you
Now I'm tryin' to forget you
Love it sweet misery
I was cryin' just to get you
Now I'm dyin' 'cause I let you
Do what you do down on me

Now there's not even breathin' room
Between pleasure and pain
Yeah you cry when we're makin' love
Must be one and the same

It's down on me
Yeah I got to tell you one thing
It's been on my mind
Girl, I gotta say
We're partners in crime
You got that certain something
What you give to me
Takes my breath away
Now the word out on the street
Is the devil's in your kiss
If our love goes up in flames
It's a fire I can't resist

I was cryin' when I met you
Now I'm tryin' to forget you
Your love is sweet misery
I was cryin' just to get you
Now I'm dyin' 'cause I let you
Do what you do to me
'Cause what you got inside
Ain't where your love should stay
Yeah, our love, sweet love, ain't love
'Til you give your heart away

That's what pops into my head every time I see this thread. :crazy: