I just want to say

[MissHoneychurch]

that I am sad about how some people get treated here. I am not talking about myself. I just read those threads this morning, so that is why I am talking about it so late.
I have the feeling that after the DU meeting in Boston the clique talk is more than before. I understand that friendships developed but that doesn't mean that one has to be rude or ignorant to others.

This thread might be totally uncalled for, I just wanted to say how I feel.

[illbill]

1. "Lord of the Flies" is a good book...

It is bound to happen.

[MissHoneychurch]

2. I guess so

I am only part of DU since end of January. But even in this short time I can tell that the tone in the Lounge changed.

[illbill]

3. I think...

since the Internet is so fast paced... people judge each other's intellect by post-count and not by what they write. Also, I have noticed that our fellow DU'ers are sometimes extremely intolerant of opposing views.

Ie - Wes Clark is a phoney and Joe Biden owns. :)

[MissHoneychurch]

4. I don't take part in bashings

no matter to whom they are directed (and soory for the maybe somewhat screwed up English - it is not my first language).

It is sad that people are so intolerant. With this you can see that free speech and tolerating other point of views seem to be lip-services (is that the right word?)

[illbill]

5. I don't know about lip-services...

but I understand what you are saying. What we preach and what we do are two different things.

[MissHoneychurch]

6. that is what I mean

maybe some conversations would be less heated if we accept the other point of view. We don't have to agree on it and can argue about it, but accept the other opinion nevertheless.

[yewberry]

7. It's okay to feel badly

but as long as you're doing what you can to build the community you want to be part of, you should just keep doing what you're doing.

I don't think posting your feelings is uncalled for. You're certainly not alone in hoping for some kindness.

PS: Lip service was the right phrase, but drop the S. Congratulations on your bravery in taking on American idiom!

[MissHoneychurch]

8. Oh, I will keep being part of DU

it is way too much fun to drop out. And if you - just maybe - followed a bit of what I posted you know that most of them are just goofy threads ... LOL

To read and post here helps me to improve my English day by day .. if that is good English I am leraning I don't know though :)

[BlondieK143]

9. You certainly have a right to your opinion, but

I don't think blaming the DUers that were in Boston for it is the answer. There have been meet-ups before and there will be more meet-ups to come. If you'll look, quite a few people that didn't even go to Boston were involved in the whole situation. Like you said, you're just saying how you feel. I just find it completely appalling that the people who were at the Boston gathering are taking most of the flack in this post.

[MissHoneychurch]

10. I'm not saying it has only to do with the Boston meet up

I don't know how it was after other meetings, since I am only here since January. You know that.
I just got the impression that after the Boston meet up it got worse. I guess I am missing a lot since I am in another time zone. I am just saying how it feels for me.

[BlondieK143]

12. But when you say:

"I have the feeling that after the DU meeting in Boston the clique talk is more than before. I understand that friendships developed but that doesn't mean that one has to be rude or ignorant to others."

The person reading the thread automatically assumes that you're saying it only had to do with that because you don't point anyone else out. I'm not trying to be combative this morning, I just feel like it's unfair to those of us that had a wonderful time and have continued to be our same selves here.

[MissHoneychurch]

15. ok, I got your point

sorry, I didn't mean to put all the fault on Boston. Maybe I am just now figuering out the cliques here (and you can't deny that there are cliques) and mixed it up with Boston. I don't say anything against friendships and more or less privare threads.

[mogster]

11. I have just SO missed out on all of this

I saw Skinner's thread, though.

I always thought the lounge people were the friendlies?

OK. Back to lurking :D

[MissHoneychurch]

13. Till now I though the same

and they still are. I don't know what happened.

And don't you dare to go back to lurking ... or :)

[mogster]

19. OK, I won't ;-)

Good post, btw. But the Boston people isn't that cliqued, I think ;-)

But I'm really not picking up on the undercurrents on this board, to many shades to keep track of.

[matcom]

14. so its Boston's fault

:eyes:

[MissHoneychurch]

16. no it is not

I just tried to explain it to BlondieK

[matcom]

18. people connect here. they get friendly

that tends to happen in "public" places. call it a clique if you wish or call it a connection if you wish or whatever.

a lot of people are friends here who have never met face to face. some play well, others don't.

this has nothing to do with DUers who have met, partied, whatever. you stroked a HUGE brush with this post and it frankly has NOTHING to do with the situation. (frankly, the fact there IS a situation is the fault of a minority and certainly has NOTHING to do with a "clique") IMHO of course

[MissHoneychurch]

21. I am making friends here also

people I haven't met so far. And I am really glad about the friends I made here. I am not saying ANYTHING against that.
I guess I wrote my post in a way that it can be misread. I am sorry about that. I tried to edit it to make it clearer, I can't change it anymore.
Yes, it is a minority that caused the situation. And as I told BlondieK, maybe I just mix things up in my mind that have nothing to do with each other. But the problem is still there.

[bridgit]

20. i'm hearing you on some of it though...

with the world being systematically disassembled by a shit for brains republican admin you would like to see; at least i would, some sort of lucent strategy session @ one of these glorius 'meet ups' i.e. a series of photo slides a tad more specific & trending toward heads tilted in earnest perusing a blueprinted game plan as to just how to regain all this lost ground as opposed to a slide show wherein a drunk longgrain is dripping across the shoulder of every female in the freaking room however damn cute y'all think him to be but that's just me :shrug: fun is fun but for to many the fun has long since been over, if we are happy with our various lots in life that is fine; but that has little to do with some underground notion of what democracy could be if ever given the chance imo

[matcom]

22. huh?

*must.need.more.coffee.* :shrug:

[bridgit]

24. make mine a double

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlondieK143]

25. I really didn't want to go there this morning, but since you posted this..

Have you actually organized one of these rallies yourself? How can you criticize people for having FUN when you've done nothing to the opposite?? And in this time of having a shit for brains run the administration, I think fun is one of the BEST things that we can have rightn ow. And you know, if the pics bothered you so bad, you certainly didn't have to click on the threads that clearly labeled them.

[bridgit]

26. you're making part of my point...

it is my sense that republicans already marching in lock step love to see this level bickering & drift

[BlondieK143]

27. I don't see this as bickering.

Why is it if we don't agree with one another that we're all of a sudden not allowed to argue our cases? I can see your point in ways, but I also don't agree with that. Since when is it so bad to take up for what we think is right?

[bridgit]

28. bickering, squabbling, quarreling, equivocating...

neither will i dicker with the nuance and so...have your fun you've earned it.

[BlondieK143]

29. Gee, thanks.

:eyes:

[bridgit]

30. you're welcome...

[NorthernSpy]

53. but you're not simply arguing a case, or disagreeing...

... with someone else's opinion.


You're attempting to rationalize despicable behavior.


Me, I don't care what people in Boston do in each other's company. And of course nobody wants too much broad-brushing of an entire group. But just as there are those who were actively involved in the incident in question, there are those who witnessed the incident -- and bravely did nothing whatsoever about it. That's not what I'd call being an innocent victim of the broad brush: such people are every bit as guilty as the ones who actually engaged in the vile behavior.




(edit:typo)

[bridgit]

17. boston? who's boston?

:rofl:

[JanMichael]

44. Personally, I blamed you, Matcom.

There's just no tellin' what a person who can drink that much vodka is capable of.

Scary, scary stuff.

But, to blame the whole city is ludicrous.

[In_The_Wind]

23. I tried to reply to Skinner's thread but it locked as I was posting.

I was one of the kids who was picked on from first grade through high school graduation. I realized at an early age that I was never going to win any popularity contest. There are times in life when I still feel like I'm on the outside looking in and it does take me back to the sad old days that I left behind.

DU is like any other large community. People will naturally bond with some people and not others. I know that I have posted (with no return response) to some of the very people who have complained the loudest about cliques. I noticed and stopped posting on their threads as I do with anyone who repeatedly doesn't respond.

I try to lead by example which in its self is difficult because there have been several times that I really wanted to respond to the bait placed before me and chose not to. I'm not trying be perfect in this imperfect world. Like everyone else, I make mistakes too. Hopefully we will all become more aware of our own behavior and strive for improvement. Life is about growth and DU is growing ! We all need to learn to work together for what we really believe in.

[LynzM]

40. Joan, I agree

Any group has people who are better known, people who get more attention (however they choose to 'get' it), people who get less. It happens in any group of more than... I don't know, 6 people? I've seen the same thing play out on a discussion board of 50, albeit not with the same level of malice/teasing, but certainly the same level of feeling 'like you don't belong', etc. And the same thing happened with meetups, for a while, those people tend to pay more attention to each other. It's just how it goes, I think. It is each person's choice how they respond to that situation.

[In_The_Wind]

43. It takes maturity to know when to play and when to walk away.

Thank you LynzM

DU is my first experience with a discussion board. Therefore I am interested in your own past experiences.

I believe that some of the people who never manage to meet any other DUers do not always *act in the best interest of all concerned* but with so much love at DU there's hope for even the most irascible pain in the ass to adapt an acceptable behavior.

[JimmyJazz]

72. Thank you so much for this post! First of all, your first

paragraph described my childhood as well.

Secondly, people will just naturally bond - although they should try to get out of their comfort zone on occassion and meet new people.

Thirdly, I stop posting to people who never respond to me and I also noticed that some of these people are the ones complaining about their threads sinking or about the cliques!

And your last paragraph was just beautiful as are you :hug:

[cleofus1]

31. apparently

many here at du were picked on and bullied during their school years...and some here were bullies who now feel real damn bad that they were so cruel all those years ago (just like Angel in Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
so now we all must live out those crisis again...when does a sense of humor end and cruelty begin?
it is good that this came up...we have to be self aware in order to address this behavior...i'm as guilty as the next guy...i will mock my opponant...but i try not to...
personal attack disguised as humor will not make any argument more valid...

i was cruelly bullied as a child
because i was small....real small...tiny even...i had delicate hands and short stubby legs...girls laughed at me and called me "munchkin" or even worse..."oomp loompa"...one time i opened my clarinet case in band class and someone had left a note in there...it said..."if you forgot to wipe your tiny weenie ass this morning...smile"
i couldn't help myself and i smiled...the whole class burst out laughing, i was humiliated...
then one day...i read an ad on the the back of a comic book that changed my whole life!




I'm the taller tiny weenie one with the bible (picture taken before i denounced god)
seriously...

[cleofus1]

32. he he

been wanting to repost that bit ever since skinner locked the last thread...:evilgrin:

[Guaranteed]

33. I didn't see what happened, but I've seen things like it happen before

here. This sounded like it was worse than just about anything else I've seen, though.

I'm not going to blame a group of people. Without even knowing anything about who did it, I think the people that posted and egged it on are to blame. There's no need to generalize. The people who posted allowed themselves to get sucked in to something that was really nasty. We all have dark parts of our soul, but, frankly, I'm ashamed of it much in the same way that Skinner described his feelings in his post, and I do my best to make sure that I don't do things like that.

The times I have done them, I don't forget. It happened more than I care to mention when I was very young. It's unforgiveable. I still feel guilty. That tendency to start "pecking parties" is one of the most disgusting aspects of humanity I can think of.

[SarahB]

34. I don't know.

I felt pretty comfortable with the people in Boston that I had already met several times and known for a couple of years. It was a tough week that week (just moving a week before, working 40+ hours, and leaving a partner of 14 years will do that to a person) and just kind of wasn't myself. Some of the people I hadn't met before that day thought I ignored them or was in some way or another aloof, a bitch, drank too much, or whatever f*cking name people want to throw in. It was entirely something else all together. I've made some pretty stupid mistakes in the last 2-3 months and my entire soul and spirit is pretty broken down in all honesty. I just know how to hide it. People see me how they want to see me and that's just as well.

[MissHoneychurch]

35. I guess it all comes down to liking and disliking

even with people one only meet/met virtually.

[bridgit]

36. very pretty thoughts & i hear them...

14yrs is a long time

[MrSandman]

41. I hope things are starting to work out....nt

[SarahB]

48. In some respects, yes.

My work is well, my academic stuff is in a good place, my children are re-settling, and my ex and I have moved to a decent place of mutual understanding. I have other things in my life that I wonder if they will ever be resolved or will forever remain a sad, unfulfilled thought in the back of my mind. (Too many mixed messages for too long from someone I care for deeply and it's just painful.)

Primarily, my life right now is just working and taking care of my children and that's just as well. I don't have the emotional energy left to open up to anyone new these days, for friendship or more, so for the most part, I'm in a bit of a state of self-imposed exile from most of humanity to re-coop, re-group and come out of this period of my life in a better place within myself.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Burma Jones]

38. No Kidding

[MissHoneychurch]

39. those darn mods

LOL

[Zenlitened]

42. I think to view this as a matter of cliques is to mis-read the situation.

One of the people at the center of this whole affair, it seems to me, does not have a temperament suited to a public online discussion forum. This person could brook no disagreement, and routinely rampaged throughout a single thread, posting minor variations of "you're wrong and a bad person for it" half a dozen times or more to every poster who expressed a different view.

That's no way to win friends and influence people. And if a group coalesces around this individual, that doesn't necessarily make them a clique. More like mutual acquaintances united by the fact that they've been treated badly by the same person.

Does that excuse their treating this person badly in return? No. But it does explain it. People lashed out -- inappropriately. However it's no surprise that they lashed out in some form. That's human nature, that's group dynamics. Ya go charging through a room full of people, throwing elbows, eventually some of them are going to throw a few elbows back.

It stinks that it has come to this, that it's descended to this level. But this is hardly a matter of the forces of purity versus the forces of cruelty. It's not anywhere near that black-and-white at all.

[redqueen]

50. That's unfair.

First of all, as Skinner pointed out, his post wasn't about just one situation. However, that was a pretty nasty situation, and I think your characterization of it is misleading.

Yes, if you charge into a room and throwing elbows around, you will get at least some of that back... however in this situation... it seems to me what happened was the elbows were thrown, some were thrown back, and the whole thing cooled down.

Then, months later, the elbow throwers say they're leaving, and they get elbows sent their way again, because they're leaving... I guess. And yeah yeah yeah everyone mocks the "That's it! I'm leaving DU!" posts, but this went beyond mocking. This descended into viciousness. IMO it was way over the line.

Sadly, it wasn't the first time this kind of vicious ridicule happened with respect to this individual. I'm really kind of disgusted with it, to be honest. Everyone makes mistakes... but apparently this person was singled out for some of the nastiest ridicule I've seen here. It's downright shameful.

I don't understand it, really.

[Zenlitened]

52. Oh, I agree it went over the line. Way over.

I guess my point is that it was the culmination of a long history of over-the-line behavior all around.

[NorthernSpy]

45. you're absolutely right, of course

And whenever you see something that is wrong, go right ahead and say so. Clique or no clique, don't be in awe of anyone.

Good on you for posting this!

[Bouncy Ball]

47. Yep, it's all just a big clique here and everyone is quite hateful

so if you haven't already received your special secret decoder pin in the mail that means you aren't in, so you might as well just leave.

:sarcasm:

:eyes:

None of this had anything to do with Boston, btw.

[JimmyJazz]

51. Thanks BB -

for setting the record straight.

[Shell Beau]

49. I feel as though this issue has been beaten to death.

I personally wish it would be dropped so we can move on. I think everything has been said that needed to be. I just think we should bury the hatchet and get back to having fun! :)

[NorthernSpy]

if you find this discussion tiresome, then yes -- do go have fun

But some of us evidently need to talk about this. Indulge us, please.

[Shell Beau]

58. It's not that I find it tiresome, but I don't see the point in

going on and on and on and on and on. I mean at some point you have to say okay let's just drop it. It seems to stir up more animosity and this week has been a tough one at DU with the Andy situation and last week with a well known DUer being a fraud. Now this. I think we need to come together and put our differences aside. That is what DU is about, discussing issues we agree and don't agree on, but being able to get past it. Not dwelling on the negative. I mean we are adults here, I think we need to act like it. Most everyone has had their say, it's time to move on.

[NorthernSpy]

61. so feel free to move on, then...

... the rest of us will catch up eventually.



(edit: added missing word)

[Shell Beau]

66. I am not trying to stir up anything here, but it seems as you

are really pissed about this. Can you not put it behind you? Do you feel like you will get anything accomplished by keeping this going on? I really am just wondering, not trying to piss you off further. :)

[DS1]

54. If it weren't for that fact that people in question

had a lovely habit of shitting all over the lounge and raising a big stink when someone didn't agree with them you'd have a point.

I don't care either way, I've had BOTH "people whose names shall not be mentioned" on and off ignore for months for exactly that reason.

[Bouncy Ball]

56. Exactly.

:thumbsup:

(Now wait to be accused of defending pictures that were posted yesterday or whenever.)

[NorthernSpy]

59. ... an excuse as lame as any I've heard

What happened yesterday was vile. Whether you found the targets pleasant or not is irrelevant.

[Bouncy Ball]

60. It didn't take long.

DS1 is more than capable of speaking for himself, but I think I'm pretty safe in saying you are making a big assumption if you think he's defending what was posted yesterday.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NorthernSpy]

67. like I said: lame

.

[DS1]

69. Keep going, wanna go for three?

lame lame lame lame lame lame lame lame

[NorthernSpy]

64. I'm making no assumptions

I remember who posted what, and I remember who thought it all quite hilarious.

[redqueen]

70. I don't.

I sped through the thread... stunned and dismayed... I only remember a couple of names I saw on the thread...

I wish I'd commented... but like others, was afraid of raising any further ire. I know, I'm a coward. I should have said something then.

I don't consider myself to be as insensitive as those who were so vicious, though, as you've said in other posts.

[redqueen]

65. Some people here thought it was great fun.

Has DS1 personally denounced it?

[DS1]

71. Who died and made my opinion in all of this relevant?

[Bouncy Ball]

75. I don't know.

I never even SAW the threads in question.

[Shell Beau]

62. I understand. I am new here so I don't have those experiences.

But they are gone now, so I just hope we can get past this. That is all I am trying to say. :)

[Tsiyu]

55. I'm glad you're sticking around

You show much bravery posting your impressions of the Lounge. You can almost sense the rage in some who responded to you: HOW DARE YOU?!?!?!

I haven't been a member long- not even a year - and I will never stop visiting the site and reading what others have to say. The Lounge has changed in the short time I have been here, though, and it wasn't the Boston meetup that caused it.

It's sort of a study in human behavior, to see how folks will change in groups and "classify" themselves. I like to give folks the benefit of the doubt, but a few here have shown their unwillingness to be inclusive and friendly to more than a handful of posters. I mainly ignore their posts.

They usually go like this.

A: I just farted

B: Oh, I love you!

C: I love you, too. Remember when we ate Spam together?

A: Oh, that was the best Spam!

B: I'll be bringing Spam to your place this weekend!

A: Wonderful! Bring your hookah as well

B: I just PMed you. Something happened to the hookah

C: Oh, no. Not the hookah!

A: What happened?

C: the green one?

B: I PMed you, too, C

A: I love you B and C

B: I love you too

C: I love you too


Blah, blah, blah. Why not carry on the entire exchange via PM? It almost seems that some here are so proud to have a few friends, they have to carry on EVERY exchange via public postings. "Look at us! We're friends!" I've made friends here, but its a fucking MESSAGE BOARD. If you must "prove" to the 68,000 folks here that you actually HAVE a friend, why? Can some of you not see that those posts are boring as hell? I mean, carry on, you know? But don't get all pissy because some of us don't "get" the point of the lovefest.

And those of you who act all "shocked" that a handful of smartasses have been lectured: Puleeze! Some folks here never worked out that high school shit. They are making up for lost time.

You can act any assholish way you want, but you are just like a Repuke if you only attack someone who complains. A little introspection never hurt anyone. Unless you are that desperate to be "popular."

I agree with you Ms Honeychurch. Quite a few here need to grow the hell up. But the majority of people on DU are not into hurting or shunning anyone, so just stick with them and ignore the asshats.


Now, I prepare to meet the flames....

[Bouncy Ball]

57. ....

What is wrong with people talking to each other ON A MESSAGE BOARD?

I will never understand it. It's like some massive inferiority complex has infected half the people here.

It's JUST a message board. People talk to each other. Some people LIKE each other. Big whoop. If I find a particular thread a bit too kissy face, guess what I do? I hit the back button and cruise out of there.

You know for months after I found the lounge, I'd post in a certain person's thread and they never, ever said anything back to me. I started to wonder why. I was taking it personally. Then finally one day they did say something to me and I got all snarky with them and said something along the lines of "oh so NOW you notice me?" and they were truly baffled. I attacked the person and they had never meant me any harm. They didn't even KNOW I was sitting over there nursing a grudge the size of Rhode Island.

That's when I realized that maybe, just maybe, it's possible to take a message board a BIT too seriously and a bit too personally.

It was a good lesson. It's JUST a message board, it isn't life, it isn't your workplace, it isn't your family. It's just a message board on the internet.

And yeah, people who go around pissing vinegar on everyone won't tend to get a lot of friendliness. That's just human nature.

P.S. Everyone is here voluntarily.

[Tsiyu]

74. Personally, I've met wonderful people on DU

This is a large community with many great folks on it. There are also a handful that will NEVER respond to a post unless one of their handful made the OP. You know it as well as I do. This is their personal choice, and if they must stay in a zone that is "safe" for them, so be it. It may be human nature, but I would feel severely limited if I confined my responses only to those I am sure would stroke my ego.

I learned way back when in high school that no matter who you are or what you say or what you do, some folks will dislike you. Never bothers me. That's called maturity.

There's nothing wrong with posting to friends, but some of the threads are simply BORING to the community as a whole, and I'm not the only one asking, "What the hell was the point of that?"

As I said, if you have to post that crap, carry on. But don't act all offended because other people find it masurbatory and juvenile.

[Bouncy Ball]

77. The people that never respond to anyone outside of the

people they know?

Fuck 'em. Who cares? Maybe they've been burned by people on the internet, and they prefer to stick with posting with people they know well, who cares? Let 'em do it.

As for the BORING threads, as you say? There is a function called "hide thread." It's nice for things like that. During the World Series, I hid every fucking baseball thread here, because I simply don't care about it.

And I'm about to get out of this thread and start hiding all THIS shit, too.

Use it, it's nice. Unless it's too much fun bitching about said threads.

[Zenlitened]

68. It definitely is an interesting study in human behavior. Some days...

... it's best to imagine oneself as Jane Goodall studying a particularly fascinating group of primates.

But from this virtual-anthropologist's point of view, it is equally interesting to note the reactions of those who feel themselves to be outside the group, or looked down upon by that group.

As this whole issue of cliques/not-cliques has bubbled to the surface in recent weeks, it seems to me that people on all sides of the issue are re-living or re-enacting some behaviors from the playground. Some battles, it seems, we never finish fighting. Some demons are never fully driven out, so that we tend to see them everywhere, at times.

[Bouncy Ball]

73. I just find the whole thing incredibly tiring.

Off to hide all these threads.

[Zomby Woof]

76. Right on!

Thanks, MissH. :-)

[Midlodemocrat]

78. I am going to lock this.

This thread is full of personal attacks.

Thank you.

DU Moderator