To my friends who are leaving because of harassment:

[Magrittes Pipe]

Don't go. I know some of your friends have already asked you to stay. I am not asking, I am telling you: do not leave DU.

I am so fucking sick of seeing good people kicked around by deranged motherfuckers of a violent mind. Yes, it happens here. There is stalking, harassment, abuse; just as there is in any community. I'm telling you not to let yourself be victimized by this evil bullshit.

Don't let them run you off, don't let them degrade you and make you feel like something less than you actually are. FIGHT BACK.

Email the admins. Alert the mods. I know, I know: you already have. KEEP IT UP. In a forum as large as DU, it is impossible for the admins and mods to know every story. You need to remind them from time to time. I don't always agree with every admin decision here; but I recognize that it's a damn hard job, and I truly believe that they try their best to make this place the best online community it can be. There are 65,000 DUers. In a community of this size, there are bound to be a few bad eggs. As we found out yesterday, sometimes those bad eggs get cracked. As we all know too well, sometimes they don't. But that doesn't mean you should run.

Those who would stalk, harass, and abuse are the lowest form of scum. They are garbage. Filth. You are BETTER than they are. And if they TRY to chase you off, and you leave -- THEY WIN.

PLEASE, don't fucking let the worthless bastards win. They don't deserve the smug satisfaction it will give them. Hold your head high in the knowledge that they have tried and failed to beat you -- just as they have failed at everything else in life; because above all, that's what people like that are: failures.

They will try to hurt you, and they will occasionally succeed. But as George Herbert said, "living well is the best revenge."

Live well. Stay.

Peace,
Hedges

[chickenscratching]

1. you could move mountains hedges

[Texasgal]

2. Confused...again.

I am so out of the loop! :(

Great post though!

[deutsey]

3. Damn, me too.

:wtf:

[Beware the Beast Man]

4. Here here!

And a :hug: for those who feel bullied.

[johnnie]

5. I don't know of who you are speaking but..

I agree with you Hedges. I don't want to see the good ones leave here because a few people come here to mess with people.
I have been trashed a few times, but I don't take it too personally. There are way too many people here and not all of them are going to like me (that's their hangup..not mine).
Like Hedges said..don't leave because of a few bad apples. I have seen people leave here too, that I wish had stayed and it was over little things that should have been ignored.
To use another classic quote "Don't ever let them see you sweat". That's from a anti-perspirant commercial I think. :) But it's true.

[Zuni]

6. I think you just quoted Hulk Hogan

there is a first time for everything here on DU. Props to you :evilgrin:

[terrya]

7. That's a nice, nice post.

I must confess that I've almost left DU in the past. Just because of a myriad of things...the people, the nastiness at times. There have been some nasty, vile people here...who have gotten some weird kick out of harrassment, out of abusing others.

I almost feel like printing your post out and keeping it. As a reminder of the fact that NO ONE should make me, or anyone, feel it necessary to leave DU. To fight back. DU isn't a sole province to others who would demean and de-moralize some.

Thank you, Hedges.

T

[crispini]

8. Kick

for a good post :kick:

[Richardo]

9. Nicely put, hedges

Thanks on behalf of us, the less-articulate DUers.

[redqueen]

10. You can be so very sweet.

It's like a jekyll and hyde thing with you, innit?

[progmom]

11. Really beautiful, Hedges

I don't want to lose any more of the good ones.

:grouphug:

[Jamastiene]

12. I must have missed something.

But I agree with you. We have some cat fights here, but there is always ignore if all else fails. Stick around, folks. It's just beginning to get good.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. What he said

:thumbsup:

[asthmaticeog]

14. 100 percent agreement here.

Over the years I've spent here, I've seen too many amazing DUers bail, and the pantloads who drove them away are still around. It needs to stop. It's neither here nor there to me if the pantloads stay, but when I lose contact with people with whom I'm becoming friends, I get salty. The scum have to stop winning.

[StopTheMorans]

21. "I've seen too many amazing DUers bail, and the pantloads who drove them

away are still around." exactly :thumbsup:

[flvegan]

15. Abso-friggin-lutely. Well said, hedges.

[kick-ass-bob]

16. Kudos to this post.

I don't know if there is a specific person this is meant for, but this community is the size of a small city. Some people don't like what we stand for and want to see us run and hide under a rock.

F.U.D.
Fear. Uncertainty. Doubt.
That is their weapon. It is a worthless one unless you - yes YOU let it affect you.

Whoever you are, do not go.

[StopTheMorans]

23. yeah, and if you do go, I'LL EAT YOUR FUCKING BABY!

[kick-ass-bob]

28. :-D

I really hope you are who you say you are. Because if YOU are playing us - I will definitely kick your ass.

:D

[StopTheMorans]

29. got any babies so I can prove it?

:evilgrin:

[Solly Mack]

17. I like what you said

[Beetwasher]

18. Huh? Whuh Happen? Do You Want Me To Kick Someone's Ass?

Seriously, what happened?

[Shopaholic]

19. I was triple-teamed and run out of a group I used to like to post to

I didn't leave DU--just got away from that particular group of people. I've had the satisfaction of seeing that group diminish in number since I left though. It's now only a pale shadow of what it once was, dominated by a group of small individuals. If they can live with it, I can live without it. But I didn't let them run me out of DU altogether.

[tyedyeto]

25. Very good advice ...

and esp. since it's from someone who's been there.

:thumbsup:

[SarahB]

20. Sometimes people just need to gear down and take a break.

Sometimes people just have too much to deal with in life at the moment to deal with harassment, half-truths, speculation, and outright utter shit from people. Life is not DU and we must realize that. I have met some wonderful people here and I have dealt with a few pathetic, juvenile pieces of garbage. Often, people are not what they seem. Never ever have I done anything to hurt anyone on these boards. I have apologized at times when I even thought I hurt someone, yet still....

Frankly, some of us are grown-ups, have stressful lives, and just don't need one more stress.

[hyphenate]

61. I'm with you a hundred percent

on this. Our real lives do take precedence, and sometimes we're filled with so much bullshit and worries from RL, that finding some support here is what we're looking forward to, to fight off that real world a little. When you come to a board and just get more bullshit like in RL, it's not worth it after awhile.

[patcox2]

22. Hmm, talk about melodrama.

Can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Last thing we need around here is the "sensitivity police" enforcing self-esteem rules.

[kick-ass-bob]

24. actually, the last thing we need around here are

people being assholes to other people.

[StopTheMorans]

26. i agree 100%; but i guess this thread did need the token straw-man

[terrya]

32. Or snotty, judgemental people.

Who are so fucking quick to offer glib opinions.

[kick-ass-bob]

33. I need to get to Chicago sometime soon.

:toast:

[terrya]

35. You should.

Ignore some of those Boston people. :-)

T

[patcox2]

43. You're being mean to me, I am going to leave!

Actually, I am amused, so I will stay.

[terrya]

49. Well, I guess that's what I'm here for...being mean and amusing people.

I think Hedges was trying to talk to some people who have left. And, for myself, in the past, feeling the same way as those people who have left...it's maddening when someone makes sweeping generalizations about a particular situation.

[Misunderestimator]

60. Yep... Glib is pretty much at the top of my list of red flags now.

Right under sanctimonious asshole.

[patcox2]

36. I haven't seen the provocation, so I don't know how bad it was.

But whether someone is being an asshole to another person is something that is usually in the eye of the beholder.

I personally feel like puking when I read the threads with all the cutesy-pie {{hugging}} and "oh, we just all agree on everything, congratulations to you for being so smart and to me to for being smart enough to agree with you." Blah.

Anyone who says "I am going away, people have been mean to me" are the epitomy of the melodramatic attention hogs so wonderfully skewered in that thread that unfortunately sank.

[kick-ass-bob]

39. guess what? the beauty of the concept of the "message board"

doesn't require you to read those threads.

Do you know how many threads I immediately skip/hide? I don't want to read them, so I don't.

And I sure as hell don't post in them.

[JanMichael]

27. I would have agreed with you in the past

but, considering Gannon/Guckert/recentlytombstonedDUers/thestalkerwhoshallremainnameless/etc, I think this is pretty good advice.

Some serious weirdos on the 'net---and places like DU attract them.

Stephanie

[patcox2]

41. It does sound as if there were some episodes I did not read.

But I am still generally sceptical of the "people are mean, I am leaving" posts. People are mean, and they are unavoidable, and if you spend your time avoiding them that means they are controlling you, they are determining your actions, responses, and even your feelings.

It can be empowering to have a thick skin, much more empowering than running away or even complaining. Embracing your victimhood has always struck me as weird, self-indulgent wallowing in misery. Its certainly not empowering, unless you define empowerment as whining in public on Oprah and having a bunch of clucking hens validate your feeling sorry for yourself by saying "you go" and other banal expressions of "support."

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me. I don't define myself by anyone here's opinion of me, and I certainly don't need anyone here to validate my feelings or my opinions.

[progmom]

45. the people who left recently, the ones hedges is referring to...

posted nothing of the sort. no melodramatic "I'm leaving" threads.

at risk of sounding like one of the clucking hens you referenced, i think it's important to realize that sometimes the issue has nothing to do with embracing your victimhood. sometimes it's just out and out evil, targeted nastiness that never lets up. sometimes people know just enough personal information about another DUer and use it to publically humiliate them. repeatedly.

[hyphenate]

68. I would assume that you don't get

rankled by insults and other offenses, but some people do. I've had at least two board instances (not at DU) where one of the attackers would collect information anytime I posted something, and use my own personal details to harass me. I don't think 75% of the nasties online would do this, but this kind of cyberstalking is as much criminal behavior as in RL, and just to have someone who takes great glee in using you and your information against you is nothing less of deviant behavior.

At one point, I had to contact the FBI about a guy online who was sending threatening but incoherent messages to people online who were coming to me to make him stop. The FBI warned him, and he quieted down for some time, but he started up again, and I don't know what the current situation is.

Those who made nasties without personal information aren't as scary as these people, and attacking them back back is easy enough, but when there is a personal vendetta or threat in the mix, it's not just "having fun on the internet."

[kick-ass-bob]

70. I can tell someone has collected some info on me.

right here on DU - it is somewhat unnerving, especially at first (they usually don't broadcast that fact either, they just hit you with it all) - but I refuse to leave.

I do not live in fear.

[tyedyeto]

30. I don't think this thread is about the sensitivity police.....

more like some sane voices that sometimes get lost in some of the crazier threads in this forum. Sometimes, it helps people to be reminded that this is just an internet forum where appearances can be very deceiving.

[prolesunited]

44. And can you point out

where the OP called for sensitivity police?

He certainly isn't trying to curtail your freedom to be an asshole, just offering encouragement for anyone who is a target of such lack of common courtesy.

I imagine half the assholes around here wouldn't be nearly so vocal or abusive in public, but I guess the anonymity of the venue and the courage some derive from being behind their keyboards give them power.

[sundog]

31. thanks hedges

:toast:

[Zuni]

34. maybe we should gang up on the stalkers and cyber-thugs

give them a taste of their own medicine?

[kick-ass-bob]

37. probably not, because

they crave the attention.

Whya re they stalking in the first place? To get this person's attention.

[chickenscratching]

48. exactly

let's eat their babies, and obliterate their bodies, they and their kin will no longer be capable of receiving attention anymore.

[Lavender Brown]

38. to someone who is reading this thread

I'm giving him back. To keep you company until you decide to return. :hi:

:loveya:

[Pithlet]

40. Who's leaving?

What happened?

[Susang]

42. As someone who has been harrassed in the past

(hey that rhymed!)

I agree wholeheartedly! If you leave, they win. Simple as that.

I know it gets frustrating. I know you probably think nobody knows what's going on, but that's only if you don't let them know about it. Alert, PM, be a general pain in the ass if you have to, but get your side of the story out. You deserve to be here. Don't go because of somebody else's behavior.

[Pithlet]

50. I don't know who this is about, but

I hope whomever it is will decide to stay. It's a shame that some people have to be assholes. :( There are a lot of people who used to post here that I miss.

[Debi]

46. Nice post

And for the assholes who think it's necessary to be mean... :eyes: why?

[Magrittes Pipe]

47. Thanks, Debi.

Just wanted to reply so you know I don't *really* have you on ignore. :)

[Debi]

51. *whew*

;)

How did things get so weired so fast here?

[XNASA]

52. I am not deranged.

:evilfrown:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

53. I'm with my brother Hedges here - don't give up.

It's like that Peter Gabriel song - only for real.

[blue neen]

55. Don't Give Up

don't give up
'cause you have friends
don't give up
you're not the only one
don't give up
no reason to be ashamed
don't give up
you still have us
don't give up now
we're proud of who you are
don't give up
you know it's never been easy
don't give up
'cause I believe there's a place
there's a place where we belong

Peter G. says it well.

[MissB]

54. Well said, Hedges.

Thank you for saying it.

[FuzzySlippers]

56. Well said Mr. Hedges. Thank you.

{{:hug: :grouphug: :hug: :grouphug: :hug: :grouphug: :hug:}}

Hugs added to bug the shit outta Patcox2.

[progmom]

58. hey fuzzy? you rock.

:loveya:

[FuzzySlippers]

65. You too, p-mom.

:loveya:

[Pithlet]

63. Hugs

:hug: :grouphug: :hug: :grouphug:

[hyphenate]

57. I've pretty much left other boards

because of that kind of situation, where some people, despite the obvious malice, support the troll and harass the victim. When it happened to me in December of last year, I packed up my bags and left, figuring that the people who supported the asshole deserved him, and I could definitely enjoy myself elsewhere.

DU has a few features which help to alleviate some of that stress, including the "ignore" ability. I have used it on occasion on DU, and surprise, surprise! within 6 months, my irritants have been tombstoned. Some people can't manage to stay civil for very long, and it will prove their undoing at some point in time.

As for me and that other board I left in December: I post jokes or other non personal stuff on very rare occasions when I want to spread something to as many people as possible, but I haven't posted anything which was a part of me since. And yes, the asshole is still there, harassing even more people. And yes, others have left the board in the past five months because of that same asshole, and a couple of others like him. What's funny is that the assholes who do 90% of the harassing are conservatives.

[Misunderestimator]

59. Don't give up, and don't give in.

;)

[havocmom]

62. Absolutely! Do not give up, cuz that's what they want us to do

Trying to get the best of us is their way of trying to neutralize us. DU is costing them big time. We need to keep pounding and hounding.

[terrya]

64. *I* almost feel like kissing Hedges at the next DU meetup for this post.

Maybe not...I don't know how he would react. :-)

But it is one of the best things I've read here in a while.

T

[jonnyblitz]

67. I didn't realize so many people were harassed and fucked with

on here. Several lady DUers I am friends with told me they have been "harassed" or stalked on here but I am not aware of the frequency and extent. this is too bad. :(

[terrya]

69. I think we'd be surprised at the number.

It's inexcusible that they have to put up with that kind of shit. And, I haven't checked the rules lately, but I think they should be strengthened and strictly enforced as to stalking and harrassment. No one...no one...should have to feel it necessary to leave DU because of that kind of shit.

[ScreamingMeemie]

66. It's because of people like you, that I'm here for the long haul.

Good and bad, nasty and sad...for the most part, we are a wonderful community. :hi:

[Skinner]

71. I'm locking this.

If anyone is harassing anyone else please let a moderator or administrator know so something can be done about it. There is an alert link on every private message you receive, so there is a very easy way to let us know.

I am going to be following up with all of the people that I know to be involved in this particular situation, and we are going to come up with a solution to the problem once and for all. I apologize to everyone involved that I did not step in and deal with this long ago. I'm sorry if my post is cryptic to most of you -- I'm not going to give any details publicly, because my impression has always been that this is a private matter involving a small group of people.

At this point I honestly don't care who started it or why it is still going on. All I care about is that it ends now. I will be contacting the individuals I know to be involved, and we are going to end this thing once and for all.