Well the shit done hit the fan now folks!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

My worst fear come true - fucking Ratzinger!

:grr:

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. I know. The hopes I had had for the future of my religion are pretty

much dashed. It's quite unbelievable at this point. I guess that's an understatement...or an overstatement. Depends on how you look at it. :( I am very sad and disappointed.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

2. The speed with which they voted is another bad sign.

[Southsideirish]

11. The deck was totally stacked in his favor -its Machiavellian.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

21. He did make that big bad boy admonishment before the conclave began

kind of eery eh?

[terrya]

25. How many Cardinals did John Paul II appoint?

Wasn't there an influx of new Cardinals appointed by JPII? That had to have made a difference.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

30. All but, like 3

[Pirate Smile]

15. Same here. How depressing.

[patrice]

Trashed a perfect opportunity to stand for justice in the world

with Darmaatmadja or Hummes.

Oh well, why on Earth was I hoping for leadership?

[katmondoo]

3. I am truly feeling sad.

We do not need another male chauvinist Pope.

[acmavm]

4. He definitely looks like a guy who has his mind made up about things

and ain't anybody gonna change it.

My son thought he looked 'mean'. My son is 12, almost 13.

He certainly sounds like he's not going to break any new ground in acceptance of 'alternative' lifestyles or understanding outside of strict Catholic doctrine does he?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

6. Being a staunch dogmatist will get you looking that way indeed

[CO Liberal]

5. I Left The Church When Paul VI Was Still Pope

I have no intention of coming back under Pope Adolf I.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

8. Well then you shouldn't be bothered much then.

[CO Liberal]

10. Unfortunately...

...the Pope has influence beyond the Catholic Church. So we should ALL be bothered that they've elected a former Hitler Youth.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

13. I must agree wih you there

[the Princess]

37. Chavez

Not being Catholic and not understand any of this - could you give me an idea of why you and so many are upset by this Pope?? Seriously.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

40. Well he was the guy in charge of Dogma for most of JPII's Papacy - a human

embodiment of everything conservative about the church. Personally I hate his stance as the main person against the Liberation Theology movement in Lartin America.

In a nutshell the Church just swung MORE conservative - if you can believe that.

[the Princess]

43. OH God

Major ramifications for all of us it looks like. :scared:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

47. More so for the 3rd world I'm afraid

Don't expect to see any Africans with condoms on his watch.

[NewJeffCT]

46. can you enlighten me on "Liberation Theology"

I can guess a bit from the name, but can you give me the progressive Catholic summary?

Thanks

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

49. Well, I'm not the best authority, but it was a philosophy which took hold

among many Latin American priests in the 80's. It mixed the socialism from the Acts of the Apostles and the early church with a political element that the Vatican (chiefly Ratzinger) saw as dangerously Marxist. It really was a beautiful blending of the dignity of the people and their righteous fight to be free. The Church cracked down on it. Kind of hypocritical for a Pope (JPII) instrumental in ending the Communist opression of his own people not to want to help the 3rd world people from freeing themselves from Dictatorship style opression with the Gospel as their guide. Politics will do that to you. The US wanted it stamped out as well.

[hunter]

54. Here's a good one...

Catholic Justice Principles

1. Every person, at each stage of life, is an image of God and deserves respect.
   
2. Every person has rights: life, security, food, shelter, worship, education, decent work and wage, rest.
   
3. Creating a just society--where all receive their rights--is the obligation of every person.
   
4. Victims of gross injustice deserve our first attention.
   
5. We promote justice best when we act in solidarity: with others instead of for.
   
6. Society, government and the economy are for the good of people--not the other way around.
   
7. We are stewards of God's creation, not owners.
   

[Bouncy Ball]

79. I agree with all seven!

If only we really operated that way.

[Zenlitened]

83. Add "... unless you're gay" to a couple of those. It's a laugh riot.

:sarcasm:

[patrice]

57. Liberation Theology says that one of the essential facts about Jesus

is that he lived to free himself and others. He resisted civil and religious leaders of his time.

The priests of his time already disliked him because the people were listening to him instead of them, and When he wouldn't lead an armed and violent rebellion against Rome, he was betrayed by his "followers". Those who had welcomed him with palm branches chanted Crucify Him, Crucify Him!

Liberation theology assumes there can be no spiritual growth, no REAL morality, not even genuine obediance, without freedom, without choosing what is right, or wrong, and accepting the consequences on your eternal soul.

[ScreamingMeemie]

12. I was an active member in our Church until the day in October where

they (the Archdioses of Detroit) chose to use the pulpit as a stage for hate speech (marriage ammendment) and had hopes of returning under the papacy of a progressive Pope. But I know think that that won't happen in my lifetime. :(

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

17. I walked out of a mass at a diocesan church recently because they were goi

ng to give out handouts to help people write their reps about the CT Civil Unions bill. Being a secularist Catholic ain't easy!

[ScreamingMeemie]

20. It sure isn't CST, but we've got strength in numbers. There were several

who left at the same time I did after that.

[patrice]

58. We will have to be church to one another. n/t

[terrya]

7. But he's 78.

That's the only thing I'm wondering about. I can't see his pontificate lasting that long.

But you have my thoughts and wishes, CStT. Ratizinger is the worst choice possible for progressive Catholics.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

9. Agreed Terry. I'm troubled by how quickly he was picked

seems there are alot of like minded Cardinals

[matcom]

14. lol

:rofl:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

65. Wrong mental image, huh?

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[cassandra uprising]

16. i'm really struggling right now

i don't know if i can do this catholic thing under ratzinger.

[JimmyJazz]

24. I am sorry for your struggles. These have been trying times lately.

:hug: :hug: :hug: and one of these on the cheek: :*

[cassandra uprising]

56. ah yeh -the power of jazz

i feel better already.

:pals:

[patrice]

59. I was thinking about going back, because I miss the Mass.

I don't think I am going to be able to unless I find someones who live a consistent culture of life, who don't vote for a president who kills, who scream at the meer mention of taxes, and then moan about nothing but fetuses!!!!

[cassandra uprising]

78. hang in there

i suggest finding a franciscan church. i wouldn't still be catholic if i wasn't raised in a franciscan church. try not to give up, missing the mass was one of the things that brought me back.

every time i think about everything that's wrong with the church, i think about padre pio and st terese. it helps.

:hug:

[mzmolly]

19. I am not a Catholic, and don't know what this means, but I am deeply

sorry for all of you.

:hug:

[hunter]

22. Here, have some popcorn...

:popcorn:

It's like having front row seats at the trainwreck, isn't it? (Be sure to bring your body-armor.)

[redqueen]

23. In an argument... can someone more knowledgable please

let me know the kinds of progress that have been made in the Catholic church?

[patcox2]

27. Exonerating the jews for jesus' death?

Very near raproachment with major protestant sects.
Apologizing for the inquisition?
Standing for economic justice.
Working to aid the poor, consistently, everywhere.

[patcox2]

26. Religious people can be very patient. I bet they figured he won't last.

Think of him as potentially a GWBush to JPII's Ronald Reagan, they voted for him ou of respect for the predecessor, and with the knowledge that he won't last long.

The handicappers were very clear that the "liberal" wing in the vatican is numerically stronger. These are patient people, and they maybe figured they could wait a couple of years. Look at it this way, I bet he would have had a much harder time getting 2/3s if he were 50.

As far as 3rd world cardinals, watch what you wish for, many of them make ratzinger look liberal.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

28. True - I understand Alende was an-ultra-super-conservative.

[NewJeffCT]

29. I've heard that, too

I'm not religious at all, but I did hear that they might select an older European conservative to appease Europe with the intention of him being around for only a 5-10 years at the most and then going for a younger pope from a 3rd world country when Ratzinger is done.

[Beware the Beast Man]

31. This is a horrible day.

:cry:

It's bad enough that I'm a nervous, anxious wreck about 80% of the time. I even try to but the best positive spin on every news event I hear. I just can't put a happy face on this one, even if he is 78 and is not expected to rule that long.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

35. Hey - they didn't appoint a new Jesus brother man!

:)

[Mrs_Beastman]

32. Me and My fellow Catholics at work are all a little annoyed

Maybe I was delusional to think that they would elect a Pope that would really address third world issues as a peer.:shrug:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

33. Seriously - Ratzinger was the biggest enemy of Liberation Theology

wonder why :eyes:

[Mrs_Beastman]

42. And we need that so much right now

:cry:

So if he isn't for helping the third world, what does he plan to do?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

44. I am nervous to find out

[Mrs_Beastman]

50. Well, I refuse to panic until I know

and maybe even hear his plans from him. I going to try to stay away from speculating anymore today...(and knowing Mr Beastman, he is doing the same or having a cig):grouphug:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

51. Well - I'll try and do the same - and not whip him up into a lather

:)

Let's resume this conversation when things have cooled down, eh?

[Mrs_Beastman]

55. I know your worried

you are definitely more involved in the Church than Mr B and I. But, I don't want to see you stress out until he does something.

[cassandra uprising]

60. sage advise

mrs. b, i'm having a hard time with this.

:hug:

[Mrs_Beastman]

62. Thanks

I hope this Pope proves us all wrong...What can I say, I'm an optimist....:hug:

[ronnykmarshall]

34. I am not a happy camper right now.

Seeing him stand there as Pope had the same feeling when * took the oath of office.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

36. Yeah - I'm a crappy hamper right now, myself

:hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

38. And the influence he will have on so many makes me shudder.

:(

[HEyHEY]

39. Quiet! THere is no decension allowed!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

41. Shut up Pope HEyHEY the 1st!

[HEyHEY]

45. Self Ordained is the best ordained!

[hunter]

53. Pope HEyHEY the First.

Chosen by God!

What shall he call his church?

Here is my proposal for the selection process:

When the Cadinals of the church of HEyHEy have not agreed on a new pope, they pass out some horrible cans of piss LITE beer to the crowd waiting in the courtyard. Tradition holds you do not drink this beer, you must shake it up and spray it on your neighbor.

When, at last the Cardinals decide on the new Pope, the crowd gets the good beer, kegs and kegs of it, and everyone parties long into the night.

[HEyHEY]

68. That'll work!

[supernova]

48. Hugs to all my Catholic DU friends

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

It would be great, if for once, we could look to our great insititutions without embarrassment. :blush:


And the bright side is, I suppose, he might not live long enough to cause much mischief.

[MountainLaurel]

52. And most Protestant denominations

Will agree with you on how bad this is -- several years ago, the Presbyterian Church USA had several discussions at the national level in response to some of Ratzinger's more hateful homilies.

[Bridget Burke]

61. He has conservative views but lack's JPII's charisma.

After a short reign, the Church may really be ready for a change. Let's hope.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

64. Amen!

[Debi]

63. What does this do for the whole Malachy Prophecy thing?

I thought the 111th pope was supposed to be the 'black pope' or the 'anti-pope'?

Does B-XVI fit that bill?

Also, if the prophecy is true this guy is only supposed to be around for a little while.

Then all hell breaks loose! :scared:

[Beware the Beast Man]

67. For as much as I love to prognosticate & freak out-

I don't buy it. Most prohecies, if successful, are self-fulfilling. Not to mention, how about all the other "prophecies" through time that never happened. Remember, the world was supposed to end in the year 1000.

[Debi]

69. I just wondered what others thoughts were on it

It was discussed quite a bit after PJPII died and wondering how people felt now that B-XVI has been selected.

(Also, what if the years we're living aren't the years prophesied? it could be 1000 years in someone else's years...like the opposite of dog years...Hmm) :think:

[Beware the Beast Man]

71. The superstitious part of me is sweating bullets.

The level-headed, reasoned side of me...is sweating bullets.

[Theres-a]

80. You're not alone

:scared:

[Beware the Beast Man]

81. In all honestly, though, I think it will be same shit different day.

Unfortunate, but not catastrophic. I just can't abide by the halt in progress.

[ffm172]

66. my same thoughts

only hope, he is already 78, maybe he is seeing his Lord soon.

[Debbi801]

70. Non-Catholic with a question...

I'm a Jew and from what I've read about the new Pope, I'm concerned about what part he may play in Catholic/Jewish relations. I know that Pope John Paul II did a decent amount to improve them. Do you see them getting worse again?

Also, how much influence will the new Pope truly have in the Catholic churches in this country? Will churches that took a slightly more liberal stance start shifting to the right?

Thank you,
Debbi

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

72. Non-Jewish with an answer...

...or a poor attempt at one. I can see Israeli wingnuts railing about how "Europe is anti-Semitic" (more than they already do)

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

73. you got that right. I'm sure the people down where you're from will be

psyched too. Liberation Theology what? Thanks Benny! :eyes:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

76. The psychotic snake handlers (aka Evangelicals) are dancing in the streets

probably. Fuck, fuck, fuck.

THIS is the consequence I fear most: a decline of Catholicism and the rise of the Talibornagains. THAT we definitely don't need.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

82. Word - I know your stance - and I can appreciate that this will make shit

worse!

[Debbi801]

75. I'll probably be struck down by someone, but...

With the head wingnut Sharon in control, anything coming out of Israel is possible.

~shrug~ Maybe I'm a bad Jew, but I don't like him. Oh well, I have a lot of strong feelings where Israel is concerned, most of which contradict me being Jewish.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. Well, Israel is a democracy.

Therefore, disliking Sharon shouldn't give you any trouble there, just like disliking Bush doesn't in the US.

Oh, wait...

[xmas74]

74. Same here.

I was hoping for someone more progressive (I was pretty sure that it would not happen, but a girl can always hope!). Before today, I always referred to myself as a Questioning Catholic (I questioned the policies of the Church). As of today, I am now referring to myself as a former Catholic. My child will never be raised in the Church (which is sad, really. Some of my best childhood memories are of attending a small Catholic K-12).

Just hold on for a while. After all, he is 78!