How do you feel about the saying "Hate the sin, love the sinner"?

[coloradodem2005]

On one hand it makes sense. But the problem is, the way it is implemented, you hate the deed of wronging someone, but the person committing the wrong gets off scott free without having to answer for what they have done.

[realisticphish]

1. the problem is

defining a "sin". though, i suppose, if the phrase really was followed through, that wouldnt matter

[SarahB]

2. The Bible says eating shellfish is a sin.

Therefore I think I'm heading down to the nearest Red Lobster with similar signs just so the people there know Jesus still loves them. :eyes:
These people who say stuff like that are whacked and like to pick and choose Biblical verses to justify their hate and their own sexual repression.

[hfojvt]

13. not all of them pick and choose

the really whacked ones look at the whole thing and buy books about "Biblical Diets". Also, almost all my friends in college were fundies, because they are people who will make friends with a lone wolf/geek more so than the rest of the world which delights in tormenting a loner/outcast. The other day I went to church (Presbyterian) after a long absence and I was greeted somewhat like Norm coming into Cheers.

[Deja Q]

3. The same way we are to 'love thine enemy' while we bomb them to death.

Never mind the torture. x(

[tjdee]

4. I hate that my mother is judgmental, but I love my mother.

I don't get what's so wrong with "hate the sin, love the sinner"--except that people connect it with Christianity/fundamentalism in their heads and have a mental spaz out which makes them reject it.

[Spinzonner]

5. Like food, you should try things at least once before you condemn them

[hfojvt]

14. I tried to explain that to the judge

but he made me a registered sex offender anyway.

Just kidding.

But I think the "try it once" does not work for many activities.

[hickman1937]

6. That doesn't mean letting someone off scott free.

Punishment still applies. But it does mean forgiveness and acceptance.

[jpgray]

7. It's actually an admission of Christian promiscuity

Because we are all sinners, after all.

:)

[hfojvt]

15. why is it the first thing people think of when they hear the word "sin"

is "sex". Like Rizzo sang in "Grease" there are worse things that people can, and will, do.

[xmas74]

8. I think that it sucks

and I tell them that often.
Maybe that's why I've been asked to leave a few churches.

[hfojvt]

18. why does it suck?

Do you love the sin and hate the sinner?
Do you hate the sin and hate the sinner? or
Do you love the sin and love the sinner?

Or is there no such thing as sin? Or just a huge disagreement about the definition of sin?

[xmas74]

27. Disagreement on the definition of sin.

[Alan Smithee]

9. In my experience loving the sinner is much more fun than not.

Saints really don't seem to know what they're doing in the sack.

[Technowitch]

10. The problem is that word 'hate'

Hate is a negative emotion. It implies anger, and anger leads to violence.

Furthermore, the whole thing is predicated on YOU judging someone else. Didn't that Jesus dude supposedly say something about how we shouldn't be judging each other at all? That the Invisible Cloud Guy was the only one with the right to judge?

That's what's wrong with that phrase.

[hfojvt]

11. I hate the saying, but I love the people who say it.

I am sure they are addicted to cliches and just need treatment rather than condemnation.

[Zenlitened]

12. It's just a dodge, like everything else the fundies do.

Puts a nice gloss on their bigotry, nothing more, when the practical effect of "hating the sin" is identical to discriminating against the so-called "sinner."

[tjwmason]

16. More honoured in the breach than in the observance

If I may be permitted to quote.

Another one I have seen from evo types is 'speak the truth in love' which tends to mean "I love you, and this is what you're doing wrong <20 minutes lecture on a person's dislikes about you>".

Both are fine sentiments, and I support both (and try to implement them - with many failings); they actually illustrate the depth of comitment which is required by real Christianity - but they are also convenient smoke-screens to hide behind when attacking others.

[RevolutionaryActs]

17. How do I feel about it? I feel it is stupid, self-righteous dogma.

To put it simply.

[China_cat]

19. Because it doesn't really work out that way.

As in the killings of 'sinners' who provide abortions, etc. No mercy, no 'loving the sinner'. It should be what they really mean...hate the sin, destroy the sinner.

[Snap]

20. More Puritan Bullshit.

[Placebo]

21. It's the way I have to approach my Republican friends.

I hate your politics, but ya know, as a person and a friend...you're pretty f'n cool, and I love ya as a friend.

[marions ghost]

31. I'm not so good at that...

there are friends and there are friends.

I have Republican relatives, I have Republican acquaintances, both of which I give the benefit of the doubt, but remain wary. I'm not sure I could truly have Republican friends--it's just too big a stretch. Best I can say is I tolerate them and get along. It's not
real friendship.

[Abelman]

22. Depends on "sin"

For me, a sin is anything which has a victim. So murder and lying, that type of stuff.

Love the sinner, hate the sin is part of the forgiveness teaching. It's mainly for people seeking forgiveness, that we forgive what they've done on a personal level.

It's not meant to dictate how to treat criminals. Government and religion are two seperate things and should stay that way. You can prosecute and convict criminals and punish them for their crimes, but people can still forgive them on a personal level.

[Rob H.]

23. The context in which I usually hear it used is

in relation to homosexuality, and in that context it sounds to me like a cop-out used by homophobes who don't want to seem like homophobes. Being in the buckle of the Bible belt, when someone says, "Hate the sin, love the sinner," I hear, "Them godless hummuhsexshuls is goin' straight t'Hay-ul."

[H2O Man]

24. I hate that saying

but I like most people who say it.

[beyurslf]

25. It is a passive way of trying to appease yourself that you don't hate

someone. Most people say it in reference to gay people. But how can they hate "my sin" (ie being gay) without hating me?

Just homophobes who feel guilty about it. I always say I will take Fred Phelps any day over those people. He says god hates us and he hates us too. You don't have to wonder where he is coming from.

[saltpoint]

26. I heartily second Snap's response:

More Puritan Bullshit.

The phrase hate-the-sin-love-the-sinner is a manipulative way of condemning anything a limited mind doesn't like.

[bertha katzenengel]

28. It's pure, unadulterated horseshit. It is used as a weapon and its power

is inestimable.

That phrase kept me in the closet for the first thirty years of my life.

:nuke:

[Steel City Slim]

29. I Think It's A Cop Out

I think they hide behind saying that so they can give you all kinds of shit without feeling guilty about it. Sort of like "The way you live is evil, and you're a no good, low life, scum bag, sinner who's going to burn in hell for all eternity for living that way. But I love you."

[Lex]

30. "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is condescending, holier-than-thou CRAP.

Particularly when used against gays and lesbians.

It's a way to hate them, but let yourself off the hook about it.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

36. No kidding.

You know they don't mean a word of it. It's just a handy catchphrase to counter any criticism from those paying attention.
After 9/11, Fallwell didn't express much love when he was on tv with Robertson.

[baldguy]

32. Fundies don't know what love is.

[tjwash]

33. It's a bullshit saying, taken (as usual) completely out of context.

Fundamentalists have taken those two diverse statements and made them into a defense for mistreating homosexuals, abortion doctors, and, women who want equal rights.

We're not told to "hate the sin." We're told to forgive the sin, at least according to the book of Matthew.

[FizzFuzz]

34. How does one express "Sin"? Through thought, word, and deed.

How does one express one's essence, one's selfhood, one's humanity, one's individuality?

Thought, word, and deed.

Therefore, at its center they are saying they hate the very essence of who you are.

This little Fundamentalist saying is nothing more than Church sanctioned cant, which in translation means:

"We hate you, the force of thousands of my brethren is behind me and supports me in this hate, and you should become less like you and more like me--and if you don't you will experience torture. Don't be mad at me, I'm smiling sweetly at you and trying to save you."

[coloradodem2005]

37. That hits on a problem I have too.

To me, a sin is when one person hurts another in some way. However, many of them extend the definition of sin well beyond that. They take it from being misdeeds against someone else and use it to just attack the very nature of a person even if it is not in said person's nature to hurt others and if you hate the essence of a person, you hate the person. And then they say that the person needs to become more like them, like they are so perfect.

[Solly Mack]

35. My feelings and thoughts on such a grave matter of concern for many

What's a sin?
Who decides?
Why do "they" get to decide?
Who made them grand Boo-bah of sin?
Why do I have to conform to what others think?
Who cares what others consider a sin?

Since those who believe in sin aren't in 100% agreement on just what is and isn't a sin...how do they balance this love hate relationship they have with sin and "thy shalt love thy neighbor as thy self"? and "judge not lest ye be judged"?

Why can't people who embrace the concept of sin just apply it to others who embrace the concept the sin and leave the rest of us out of their sin-fest?

Can you really love the sarcasm if you hate the sardonic?

[Ellen Forradalom]

38. It's code language for HATE FAGS.

I never hear it applied in any other situation.