Ever felt marginalized because of your physical appearance?

[SarahB]

I am VERY comfortable with who I am, how I look, my sexuality, etc. and I have no problem expressing that side of myself (and I don't feel as though there is anything wrong with that), but I have also felt at various times in my life either overtly sexually harassed or that somehow my mind or spirit was in some way marginalized based on a faulty perception because of all this exterior junk.

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here other that no matter what a woman looks like on the outside or how she fits or doesn't fit into some narrowly defined western view of beauty, please remember that she is, first and foremost, a mind, soul, spirit, and human being. Thanks. :)

[DS1]

1. Only when I'm streaking across a baseball field

;-)

[GOPisEvil]

2. Oh yeah.

Try being relatively short and overweight. Or just being relatively short.

[Bouncy Ball]

7. I'm telling ya, GOP

there ARE people (women) who like that. I'm not shitting you.

[GOPisEvil]

9. Well, they need to start presenting themselves.

I need clarity, people!

[Bouncy Ball]

LMAO

Now how do you know some woman hasn't been attracted to you in the past but just never said anything or let you know in some way?

I have a friend who is now engaged to be married. She's 41 and all of a sudden, two guys she used to work with just came out of the woodwork in the same week to tell her they always wanted to date her, but just never worked up the nerve.

She was kind of pissed off. She asked them "WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY ANYTHING???" Of course, she's happy now (engaged and all), but I imagine that would be pretty frustrating to find out. Well, and good to find out. But all that time (she didn't date for oh, about ten years) she thought no one wanted to go out with her and it wasn't true.

[GOPisEvil]

12. Well, I'm shy by nature...so _I'm_ not going to bring it up!

Unless I've had a few :beer:...but even then!

[Bouncy Ball]

17. LOL YOU'RE shy???

Really? You don't seem like it, but then I've gotten to know you in a different context, I suppose.

[GOPisEvil]

19. Oh yeah...with people I don't know, I'm painfully shy.

Around people I know, I'm the life of the party. :shrug:

[hfojvt]

59. and there is some kind of restriction against women asking?

What year is this anyway? In fact, my mom pursued my dad as much as vice versa. This was in 1956. He moved into a boarding house and a bunch of the girls were talking and my mom asked about the new guy. One of the other girls said "you are after every guy who comes in here, but you will never get anywhere with (my dad)" Hilarious, now that they have been married for 47 years. My brother is also married now for 18 years although he has never in his life asked a woman on a date.

[Bunny]

31. Well, I seem to be attracted to overweight, balding men.

Are you balding? ;)

FWIW, I think you look fine.

[GOPisEvil]

36. Dammit! I have all my hair!

I cut it short though. :silly:

[Bouncy Ball]

41. I'm definitely attracted to chunky guys.

In fact, if I had to choose (and this is hypothetical since I'm married) between a thin guy and a chunky guy, I won't even have to think two seconds about it. Give me the chunky guy. Rowr!!!!

[hfojvt]

63. in my experience

very few women are attracted to skinny guys. Of course, I am not very gregarious or cheerful either.
So my comment to the OP would be that I am almost always marginalized because of my appearance. Other men do not respect a puny guy nor are women eager to talk to a skinny geek, either in work situations or social.

[amazona]

80. I'm attracted to skinny guys

Unfortunately I'm taken but just to let you know, we're definitely out there. I guess it's a pretty specific fetish though. Don't think of it as puny or geeky, think of it as Byronic. You know, that whole poet/artist/rock star knobby elbows thing. :-)

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Bouncy Ball]

85. I don't know, I've known plenty of women who

prefer the really thin look on guys.

:shrug:

I wasn't trying to offend thin guys, hell, I'm taken anyway. I was just expressing my natural preference. I've *always* liked heavier guys.

[hfojvt]

95. taken?

Dang I need to call FTD and cancel that order.
It really was not about you, but I have seen plenty of hot (petite) women with huge guys. The male ideal tends to be the Fabio type or Trent Green - you know, thighs as big as my chest, arms as big as my thighs. The male Twiggy is just gonna get laughed at and get sand in his face, and he deserves it for being too lazy or geeky to lift weights. Such is the culture that urges males to take steroids in the same way it urges females to always diet.

[Bouncy Ball]

98. Hang on a second, when I said I was taken

I was making no assumptions about YOU. I was just saying that in GENERAL. As in, it doesn't really matter WHAT my preference is now, I'm married. See what I mean?

Now, as far as guys go, I'm sorry that has been your experience, but any guy I went to high school with who was rail thin GOT the girls. They looked MUCH better in the tight Jordache jeans and Def Leppard concert t-shirt than the chunkier guys.

And by chunky, I don't mean "muscular." I mean CHUNKY. I like a gut on a guy. I know, some people think that's weird and I'm not talking 300 pounds or anything. But I mean chubby, overweight, what have you. Not beefcake.

[johnnie]

10. I have the short thing down

I don't care what women say..they pay next to no attention to shorter men. If they say they don't care, most of the time they are lying.
Remember..I said "most" not all.

[Bouncy Ball]

13. I'm taller than my husband.

He's 5'6". I'm 5'7". When I wear heels, it's even worse. But I really don't give a shit and never did. The women who overlook short men are missing out, in my opinion.

[GOPisEvil]

18. We were at the same college at the same time!

How did I not find you then?!

OK, so there were 50,000 other students...details...

[Bouncy Ball]

21. LOL, I saw your picture

I would have gone out with you! Plus you have a fiesty ass personality. And liberal! Did you know I only dated ONE republican the whole time I was in college? Where WE went to school! Yep. All the others were either liberal or totally apolitical. Even back then, I avoided republicans.

But yeah, there's that 50,000 other people thing. That can be problematic.

[GOPisEvil]

23. I was such a homebody then.

Hell, I'm a homebody NOW! I was going through my "political compass" phase at that time. I had access to a lot of different viewpoints in the Poli Sci Dept. But it's really odd that you only dated one Republican at THAT place.

I haven't looked you up yet. Dernit. I need to do that.

You know, I even had a couple of classes in the Education Building (whatever its name is). The Poli Sci Dept. were vagabonds then.

[Bouncy Ball]

27. Harrington

The Harrington Education Center--made up of two buildings. Ugly as hell, and I had too many classes in there.

But I was actually an English major and guess where the English Department was located?

The BLOCKER BUSINESS BUILDING.

Gag. All the way over near the Zachry Engineering Building. Why was the English Department in there? I have no idea. Still don't.

What was great was having one class in Blocker then the next class in the Horticulture/Forest Sciences Building (I don't think it was done when you graduated), which was as FAR as you can go on campus the opposite direction. 20 minute hike, no shit.

[GOPisEvil]

29. We were in Blocker until Bolton was remodeled.

Heehee - we're hijacking Sarah's thread! :bounce:

Did you know they have classes WAY out across Wellborn now? :wow:

[Bouncy Ball]

34. Holeee hell.

And I thought I had a long freaking trek. I never could figure out the on campus buses (those short ones). I got on one once and it just went in this big circle and I was no closer to my class than when I started, so I got disgusted and got off. LOL, in fact, I was so disgusted that when I saw one of my friends walking along to the same class (we had gone to high school together and were neighbors off campus, too), we both decided "screw it" and went to Duddley's and drank beer until 5 pm.

:rofl:

[GOPisEvil]

37. I never once set foot in one of those buses.

I liked walking across campus. More pretty girls to ogle at. :D

[Bouncy Ball]

43. You guys had it bad.

Back then the ratio of guys to girls was still out of whack in favor of the girls. When I first got there, I swear I nearly ran into walls, trees, just looking at all the guys everywhere. My high school was SLIM PICKINS, so going there was like....I had died and gone to heaven.

Those buses were useless, you didn't miss anything.

[GOPisEvil]

45. Sigh...why did I go there again?

:banghead:

I swear I'd make a different choice if I was deciding today.

[Bouncy Ball]

55. Why did *I* go there????

I wonder the same thing....

[Tesibria]

106. that's great ... you're BOTH

ok with it.

i had a "shorter" .. "S.O." who said he loved that I was taller than him .. until we became a "couple".

all of a sudden, he didn't like me in heels anymore.

on a purely .. physical/view level, i think it looks GREAT when you see a couple where the woman is taller than the man (and wears heels) -- they both look very happy as themselves!

[SarahB]

39. I was married for years to someone more on the short side.

It didn't matter to me. He was always far more self-conscious about it than I was. "Don't wear heals, Sarah. Blah, blah! You'll dump me someday for someone taller, Sarah." The only reason I'd even want someone taller is just to not deal with someone else's insecurity on the subject. Confidence and good looks can come in many sizes and packages and women of any substance aren't going to base their entire view of a man on his height.

[GOPisEvil]

42. It only bothers me at music venues where I have to stand.

My calves get a nice workout from trying to be on my tiptoes all the time. :eyes:

I need to meet more of these women of substance. I think I'd like them. :crazy:

[johnnie]

48. I'm OK with my height

I have been short all my life and never had a problem with it. If a woman doesn't want anything to do with me because of it, that is her hang-up and not mine.
It's just that I have heard women say that they don't care about a man's height, but I know that they do. Not all, as i said. I have had many relationships in my life and my height was never an issue. But it makes the dating scene a little tougher on the pickens..lol.
Another thing is that men tend to go after shorter women.

[rockymountaindem]

14. I'm with you, buddy.

It's not good being below average in the height department. I read somewhere that every inch of height earns the average man an extra $900 per year. Is that fair? Women complain all the time that they're judged against an unfair standard, and that's definately true. However, that doesn't mean that men don't sometimes suffer the same fate at the hands of both women and other men.

[hfojvt]

64. every inch over what?

an extra $900 more than what?
So at 71 inches plus, I should be making $63,900? Boy am I getting ripped off. Are you sure that is not just because rich people are eating better and thus growing taller, and wealth goes from generation to generation?

[RagingInMiami]

3. The only thing that is important is that YOU are aware of your true inner

person. Many people go through life not knowing their self.

And you really can't control everybody else and how they perceive you.

[SCDem]

4. Unfortunately

Women I think marginalize other women more so than men do. Saying this of course as a woman who has been too often marginalized because of my appearance by other women. It starts in childhood and continues through life unfortunately.

[SarahB]

22. I think it's even worse for white women.

My daughter (who's 13) and I were discussing this recently. Most women we know who are of African or Latin decent don't judge themselves so harshly and are still comfortable feeling or being empowered no matter what size, etc. they are whereas many of us Caucasian types (especially American perhaps) are inexplicably hard on ourselves and each other. Not much of a sisterhood at times. :(

[NewJeffCT]

53. I've noticed that as well

Being a guy, I've noticed that women are sometimes a lot tougher on other women than men are on women or on other men.

I think it's something American, though. My wife is from China and has several girlfriends from China as well, and none of them suffer from any sort of lack of confidence. It's the same way with my female relatives overseas in China when we visited them last year.

[Bouncy Ball]

5. I have a brain and a uterus, too.

But I don't use both. Only the uterus.





;-)


Actually I have no use for the darn thing. Anyone need one? Only used once! In good shape!

[Bunny]

33. I had mine removed four years ago.

So I only have a brain now, which I have been known to use on rare occasion!

[Zomby Woof]

6. Good post!

Not a thing in it needs to be fixed! :hug:

[SarahB]

25. I'm glad you understand what I'm saying.

:)

[StopTheMorans]

8. all of the time

:cry:

[CO Liberal]

11. When I Was a Kid, I Was Teased About My Red Hair

I hated it, because it made me feel "different". Now I love it, because it helps make me unique.

It's all a matter of perspective, I guess. And perspective is different at age 10 than it is at age 52.

[livetohike]

58. Me too and I'm also 52 now.

I am the only red head in my family. When I was a Freshman in college a red-headed male came up to me and winked and said "One in 50!". We became friends that day and that's when I accepted that I was unique and it was okay.

As a child, the teasing from other kids and adults was just awful. "I'd rather be dead, than red." and other comments.

[CO Liberal]

67. Being Male, I Was Constantly Compared...

...to Howdy Doody and Bozo The Clown.

[livetohike]

72. Raggedy Ann and Pippi Longstocking here

Oh well, CO Liberal, I guess we could be in worse company. :-)

[CO Liberal]

100. I Guess

At least we were never compared to axe murderers.....

:-)

[mcscajun]

15. Answer: Yes.

But not because I've been sexually harassed, but because I'm 'invisible' while at the same time being Very, Very Visible. I'm FAT.

Yes, I have a mind, and spirit, and feelings, and desires. And I'm a target, but not for sexual harassment. On the contrary, I can appreciate the problems of someone being sexually harassed, while at the same time, I am also a victim because that same mindset dismisses me from the field of endeavor.

I've been told I'm very pretty, I've been told I'm sexy. I'm still on the margins, though. Ah, well. At least I get time to read.

[Magrittes Pipe]

16. Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

[jonnyblitz]

68. LMFAO!

:thumbsup:

[Love Bug]

20. Are you kidding?

In this society there few things more invisible then being over weight and over forty!

[SarahB]

24. That's a marginalization as well.

I remember being very pregnant, 200 pounds, and getting f*cking doors slammed in my face likely by the same men who'd now bend over backwards now to hold it for me. I know how that feels. It's not fair either. :(

[sniffa]

26. aLL the time

it's not easy being this good Looking. :cry:

[Bouncy Ball]

28. It must be so hard for you, sniffa.

Come here, let Bouncy give you a big hug...

[sniffa]

32. don't tempt me

:loveya:

[terrya]

30. In high school, I was made fun of because of my large nose.

I wasn't the cutest kid in high school, that's for sure. And I was made aware of that.

My satisfaction comes from the fact that I know I've aged much better and am more handsome now than they are. :-)

[bertha katzenengel]

35. Yes, in two ways.

First, I'm obese. 'Nuff said.

Second, while I'm not the stereotypical bulldyke butch lesbian, I do tend toward the more "butch" look. I never wear skirts or dresses or high-heeled shoes. I don't like "froofy," femmy clothing. I don't wear men's clothing; what I do wear isn't frilly, lacy, or silky. I like cotton and linen. I like button downs and jeans. I wear my hair very short. I wear earrings and a bracelet and a watch, but I never wear makeup. And I get called "sir" by the less-than-observant.

I'm always kind. I never lose my temper, although I am usually tempted to expose my breasts to them and say, "Sir??" Most times the dullard realizes what s/he's done and turns fourteen shades of purple. That's perversely gratifying.

The first time I was mistaken for male, I was fourteen years old. On a Saturday I was working in my stepfather's liquor store (that's a whole other story). I was thin, and had begun to bloom but was wearing a loose t-shirt, and my hair was straight, very long, bright blonde. Two "old" ladies asked for a case of Bud. I went into the cooler to get it for them. I put it on the counter in front of them and one of them said to my stepfather, "What a nice young man. Is this your son?" I'll never forget the intense shame and embarrassment I felt. I still don't know why I was ashamed and embarrassed, but I remember it like it was yesterday and recalling it now, I feel it again.

I hate being called "sir" but I am not willing to change my appearance just so that won't happen anymore.

[Bouncy Ball]

40. Well FWIW

if someone wants to torture me, they can forget about bamboo splints under the fingernails, just make me wear something frilly, flowerey or frou-frou. It's like nails on a chalkboard for me.

I don't notice clothes like that on other women, don't care, but I would rather run hot piano wire through my left eye than wear anything like that.

My mother even said when I was a toddler, I'd pitch an absolute FIT if she tried to put those panties on me that had lace rows all over the butt. HATED it! LOL

My look is tailored. (My dressy look. My casual look is running pants and a fitted tee.) Classic cuts, blazers, slacks, nice accessories, but NOTHING frilly or flowery. Think Diane Keaton without the weird hats and I don't wear the color white or turtlenecks (she seems to love both).

Remember Laura Ashley clothing? I used to get hives just walking past their store in the mall.

[bertha katzenengel]

44. Laura Ashley... isn't that gunny sack & pioneer woman dresses?

???

[Bouncy Ball]

46. Yeah like this kind of stuff:

That's an old Laura Ashley dress on eBay

[bertha katzenengel]

50. OMG! That's all my co-workers wore in the 80s, when I worked for

"Insight for Living," an evangelical pastor's radio program. :puke:

[MissMillie]

38. I always felt like I couldn't get anyone's attention

And when I did get it, I couldn't keep their attention.

So then I ate myself to the point where I was sure that no one would ever pay me any attention again--talk about building a wall.

Now, as I shrink, I realize that the way I look has little to do with how people treat me.

Mean people treat me badly. Nice people treat me well.

[One_Life_To_Give]

47. Punters Pub

Yes. I remember the times I visited the "Football/Hockey Teams" bar. As a 150lb Geek, I felt marginalized by 250+lb athleates there. Usually stressing their freshly pumped muscles, and looking to impress. Not that they would say or do anything to me. But a guy could easily feel marginalized in there.

[Left Is Write]

49. Yes. Many times, for different reasons.

[Redstone]

51. I'll confess. Yes, I have.

All the guys resent the tall, handsome son of a bitch at the corner of the bar.

It's hard to take sometimes, but I manage.

Redstone

[Left Is Write]

52. It's a rough life.

But you are a handsome devil.

[Redstone]

92. Why, thank you, Madame Blue Eyes.

Redstone

[NewJeffCT]

54. I have been, I think

When I visited China last year, I was constantly getting stares & looks from everybody - especially women. When I was in the airport in Beijing, I had three women come up to me and ask (in English) if I needed any help - and, they were not airport or airline employees. (My wife had gone off to try & locate our missing stroller)

I think it bothered my wife more than me, though.

[Wat_Tyler]

56. No. I'm neurotic enough as it is, I don't need another level of neuroses.

[ChickMagic]

57. About the pedestal thing

I'm convinced that men put women on a pedestal so they can look up their skirt. :evilgrin: I keed, I keed.

[SarahB]

60. If that's the case, it's not so bad.

That I can live with and at least it's honest. I'm very much a sexual person and ok with that, but sexuality in itself is far more mental even than physical. Too often people judge a person's sexual worth based on superficial stuff. I want someone to think I'm just as much a hottie when I'm 70.

That quote is based upon having had the experience of being with someone who treated me like I was a child for years under the guise of "protection" or "love" when it ultimately was more about control than anything else. I don't know if that can make sense to anyone unless they've felt what that means.

[ChickMagic]

62. I do know what you mean

I was married to a complete control freak. When I'd adjust myself to what I thought he wanted, he'd change his mind. It drove me mad. I was single for a looonnng time after the divorce, and thank providence for Derby.

[Redstone]

65. "sexuality is more mental than physical" is dead right.

Mrs R and I go to a Mexican restaurant in town for lunch at least once a week, and we eat at the bar, so we have a good place to observe the goings-on.

Out of about 10 waitresses there, there's one who would rank about seventh if the group were judged solely on looks, but she's the one most of the guys jackpot with...much more so that the ones who are technically prettier than her.

Now, I'm NOT saying she acts slutty, or even encourages guys to come on to her in any overt way; far from it. But it seems that men are attracted to her because she's what I describe as a "hot rod," a fun-loving, bubbly kind of personality.

So, yes, guys are attracted to women on some basis other than looks. At least in some cases.

Redstone

[Wapsie B]

61. All the time.

That's why I'm trying to change things with my appearance, ie: exercise and lose weight. I can be quite sure in saying that I've not been sexually harassed. But being a sensitive male, maybe too sensitive I've had people stare at my torso just like some would stare at a woman's breasts, but only with a look of disgust. My introversion has been taken as a lack of intelligence by some. So yeah, I have.

[leftofthedial]

66. Have I ever felt marginalized? Only at the NBA tryouts.

[jonnyblitz]

69. well it's good to see you don't suffer from low self -esteem. nt

[Kathy in Cambridge]

71. *snort*

:rofl:

[SarahB]

74. It's not about that.

It's not about feeling in any way "better" than anyone else, so don't please make that assumption. I have had a variety of appearances in life. I've been many sizes. I'm not perfect. No women is the same after they have children.

I just get frustrated with people who do not know me making assumptions about me or otherwise breaking down my entire being into shallow terms. If that's a terrible thing on my part, then so be it.

[WinterStorm]

105. Sarahbelle

:hug:

[short bus president]

70. People are ALWAYS hatin' me 'cuz I'm beautiful!

;-)

[fleabert]

73. You kick ass SarahBelle!

you are a wonderful person!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :applause: :woohoo: :woohoo: :yourock:

I have never seen you post one thing that I disagree with. I think you are in my head sometimes. :-)

[nini]

75. Sure... there will always be people who can only see superficial beauty

Personally, I don't have time for that crap. If someone doesn't want anything to do with me because I'm too heavy, or too tall (I"m tall for a woman), or I have a slight limp when I walk or WHATEVER.. to hell with them. If they cannot see the beauty inside of me then they are not worthy of my loyalty and love.

I'm happy with myself and even though I'd like to improve on some things I don't let it define who I am.

I'm lucky enough to have found someone who loves me for ME - my mind, my spirit and the whole body package. He thinks I'm the most beautiful woman in the world and if I get down on myself for something superficial he quickly reminds me that's not what makes me beautiful. I don't think he'd fix anything about me :-) btw: I love him too!

[Shakespeare]

76. I'm in, uh, the same situation as you, and--NO, I haven't.

I've always thought it tacky to boast (no matter how subtly) about one's looks, but even worse than that is complaining about being marginalized.

Those same looks that make you feel "trapped" on a pedestal also get you special treatment that others don't get. If I EVER start feeling irritated, I always remember that I get benefits that I didn't earn or work for in any way, and that far outweights any "marginalization."

Geez.

[SarahB]

77. Where did I boast?

Tell me? Point it out!

You have no f*cking clue who I am, what my life is like, and what I have been through in my life, so don't make f*cking assumptions about what I am saying. This wasn't about ME so much as ALL women deserving of respect. There was some stuff that made me feel singled out and very uncomfortable last night, so I said something. Now, it's a f*cking flamefest at me?

Yeah, go sisterhood! :eyes:

[Shakespeare]

79. I didn't make ANY assumptions.

What I had to say was in response solely to what you posted in the thread. You asked a question in the OP, and I answered it. Sorry you feel it necessary to flame the shit out of me for it because I disagreed with you--I tried to be civil in my post.

[SarahB]

81. You were not civil.

You were rather snide. I don't mind if I am disagreed with, but you got personal, you know it and I will defend attacks upon my character when it comes down to it.

I changed the pedestal thing because obviously people are misinterpreting it as some bragging thing. It has more to do with how I was treated for years in a very controlling, emotionally abusive relationship than anything else. Like I also said in some other posts, I have been many shapes, sizes, and whatever. It would have been nice to be treated decently back then too.

It's nice to see that someone's feelings and experiences make a good joke. Marginalized? You betcha!

[Shakespeare]

82. No, I wasn't snide.

I was blunt, but I was NOT snide. I made no judgments about you as a person--just answered your question (in a way that disagreed with you), and explained why *I* feel the way I do.

I did NOT attack your character.

[SarahB]

84. See above.

You still haven't pointed out where I boasted and it was you who insinuated that as such. :shrug:

[Shakespeare]

87. You edited your post after I responded.

You know very well how and why I was able to infer what I did, and have subsequently removed that particular comment from the thread. That's dirty pool.

Your implication was unmistakable (as there are others on the thread who've picked up on it as well). I'd just like to know why you chose to flame the shit out of me instead of the other who just made snarky comments without explanation of why they feel the way they do. You may not like the way I responded, but at least I gave specific detail on why I feel the way I do, and I was NOT attacking you.

edited to add: As much as I've apparently pissed you off, you've yet to respond to my point about the benefits of good looks outweighing any marginalization.

[SarahB]

89. I started the edit before there was a response.

The interpretation of my implication by some was just that- an interpretation of my implication.

It doesn't see into who I am, my experiences in life, or why I said what I said, but if you read a little deeper in the thread, it does. I said something to someone else as well, but your comments somehow cut me the most because I am, if nothing else, generally very hard on myself in all facets of my life. I do not assume myself to be somehow any better than anyone else in any way, shape, or form, nor was it at all my intent to "boast" and it bothered me that was the assumption.

The lame "don't hate me because I'm beautiful" shit was just stupid and not worthy of comment.

Edit: On the question of the benefits of good looks. I don't really perceive myself as all that great looking, so I don't know. I try to be confident about things, but I generally look in the mirror and see the things I don't like which is why I feel entirely uncomfortable with these men I don't even know telling me how "hot" I am.

[Shakespeare]

91. Couple of things:

One, I've pointed out specifically why I drew what I did from your comments, and it was fairly obvious. If that pisses you off, that's too bad, but don't blame me because your own words came out in a way that multiple people interpreted the same way.

Two, YOU are the one who put the question up for debate, so you really shouldn't fault others for responding honestly. None of us gets to guarantee that we like all of the responses on threads we start, but that's the way it goes.

If it's something you're THAT sensitive about, perhaps you shouldn't put the question (and yourself, based on your comments) up for debate.

[SarahB]

93. You're right. I'm wrong.

I'm not entitled to an opinion or thought without it being a joke. I'm glad that's strait. Now we can move on.

[Shakespeare]

94. How in the HELL do you get to that point?

Did I say you weren't entitled to an opinion? For chrissfuckingsakes. I answered your initial question, got blasted by you for it, and have simply defended and (further) explained my comments. NOWHERE did I say you're not entitled to an opinion (but I'm guessing you'd rather I didn't have one).

[amazona]

78. we live in a visual society

People can't see minds, soul, spirits, or human beings. They see bodies. I believe there is a large minority, and possibly a majority in some areas of the world, where women, and especially blonde women, are not really considered to have a soul by anyone other than themselves. The problem is bigger than western or non-western. Other than the internet, I can't even imagine a society where the first thing about me that someone sees is not my looks. The world doesn't work that way, sadly. I've pretty much been on every side of this, from being disfigured to being normal looking to being attractive at least for my age. Everyone reacts to you based on what you look like period. And anyone who pretends they don't has an ulterior motive.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[SarahB]

88. I've been on many sides of this as well.

That's what people don't realize, so a handful are turning it into some kind of joke. Men do not have to deal with this at the same level as we do, so I don't think they understand. I have had the experiences both of being so sexually harrassed that I dealt with people calling me names of various body parts instead of my actual name. I also remember having little kids, being heavy, and having assholes slam the door on my face calling me an ugly cow.

I know it's just how people are sometimes, but it pretty much sucks that the world can be the way it is.

[Redstone]

96. Sarahbelle, Sarahbelle, take it easy...

Sounds like you're not having a great day. Come on down the road and Mrs R will make up a pitcher of her special Mango Margaritas (with a touch of papaya!). Three of those, and the world won't suck anymore, I guarantee it.

People gonna be what they gonna be, after all. Can't change that.

Redstone

[amazona]

99. a whoo hoo the mango margaritas

I believe I'll join ya'll if I may!

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Bok_Tukalo]

83. That was an interesting post

Seems I keep missing the odd stuff here.

[Crankie Avalon]

86. I worked for Greenpeace when I was a kid...

...and one or two of the folks there stuck their noses in the air around me because they thought I looked a little too much like a jock and not enough like--I don't know--a "hippie," I guess.

As an adult, how I look really hasn't been all that much a problem. At least I haven't picked up on it.

[WindRavenX]

90. oh, god yes. I live among J.Crew models

I seriously love Boston College, but holy shit, 99% of the students are white, J.Crew or Abercrombie (I actually know that there is at least one confirmed Abercrombie model here) models. In other words, really really beautiful, thin and atheletic students.
Me? I know I'm cute and I'm comfortable with myself...but being 4'11'' and chubby...really sucks when everyone else is a 10 x(

[Extend a Hand]

97. yes! Please Please

someone nominate me for "what not to wear"
I'm stuck in the seventies and I can't get out.
I need help. :cry:

They do such a good job helping people find a style that right for them.

[Sugar Smack]

101. Being a short woman, 5'2", I am subjected to intrusions

I think I wouldn't be subjected to if I were taller and more physically imposing. I am fine with who I am, and like everyone, there's room in my life for improvement. I'm guessing that when you were pregnant, people you didn't know would put their hands on your belly. I'm at a really good "head-patting" height, despite my education and experience.

There's an aesthetic canon-what's sexually desirable, for instance-that changes every 5 to 10 years. In the Twenties, it was cherub-faced, black-eyed girls with bobs. In the Fifties, it was the lush, shapely curves of Marylin. In the Seventies, there was Barbie-still with curves. Now, regrettably, we're supposed to live up to the fucking Bratz doll standard.

Luckily, I don't even TRY, and I enjoy mouthing off to anyone who tries to use me as a leaning post.

;-)

[WinterStorm]

102. My two cents

If you have a degree and you can make a living on your own, get the hell out and don't look back. Been there, done that and it will never happen again. A person doesn't need to be told that they are pretty every minute of the day unless someone is putting them down. You have kids and your kids shouldn't witness him putting you down. He obviously has issues and he is taking them out on you. You seem like a nice person and if i were you i would start making plans to leave. :hug:

[ForrestGump]

103. They hate me because I'm beautiful

Seriously, I do not and have never considered myself a male-model type, and I'm sure that those who have met me or know me would agree that I'm hardly the GQ ideal (and let's not even get into the issue of clothing for now). But the truth is that I get a lot of positive comments -- always have -- about my physical habitus. Most have to do with my height and the breadth of my frame, but it's been everything from my hair to my eyes to my cheekbones to my nose...whatever.

When I was in my more rotund phase between childhood and my teens -- a short-lived accumulation of "baby fat," I guess, that soon enough left me more slender than ever by age 13 -- nobody commented on it. Nowadays, now that I'm at possibly the greatest weight I've ever carried and at a physical low in many ways (a temporary situation, I'm sure), I'm still referred to as a hunka hunka burning love. I can see the excess weight myself -- sure, it helps that I've got a lot of acreage to spread it across, and I'm also at a record high in muscle mass, but at this point the squishy stuff is plainly obvious in some places -- so I know it's probably more visible to others. Sure is on my various IDs and so on. I'd better finally get serious about ditching the 30-40 lbs or so extra that I've been toting around this past year but it's not like I'm exactly being pushed that way by negative comments.

Is it because I'm in better shape, even now, than most American 40-year-old males or is it just that people EXPECT the same (males only, I emphasize) to be overweight and I've probably even got room to grow before the ruder among us begin to make snide comments? I don't know, but I do know that my self-esteem should undoubtedly be greater than it is, regarding my appearance, as a result of all this ego-stroking. Could well be something else, though, because my father's long been a babe magnet to an extent that doesn't compute with regard to his also not evoking images of GQ models. :-)

But enough about genetic mojo. The short answer is that, no, I've never been particularly marginalized by my appearance. The exceptions have been times when I have been a racial minority and actively discriminated against for my skin color, though much of that has occurred in other countries and could well be partially confounded with general anti-expat xenophobia and other factors.

Hold on, though. There is ONE relevant part of my life that brushes up against all this. Perhaps because of my size and stature, and almost certainly because I don't talk with all the fancy words that my vocabulary possesses (and hate pretension and poseurs), I've very often been assumed basically a bit basic. Big mistake, as it turns out, and I've taken great delight in leaving classmates in the dust, academically, along with their hollow superiority complexes. Someone my size, who doesn't put on airs or do the whole disgusting pseudointellectual act, is often assumed a dunce.

I saw it in high school, I saw it in my undergrad years, and I even saw it when I entered grad school (especially from one who predicted that I wasn't cut out for the field...she dropped out not long after and I quickly became a f***ing legend in my academic department). Hell, I even experienced it in my postdoctoral employment. I never let it bother me because I knew that my standing in the class (usually at the top) and my abilities would soon enough rub their noses in it quite nicely, and perhaps teach them something about making assumptions based on nothing at all.

We all make snap judgements based on first impressions (they may or may not last, but we make 'em) and sometimes they prove all too accurate. I would submit that those based on appearance, though, are the elast likely to be reflective of real qualities. Take the chinkiness thing again: I have been trained by a famous martial arts instructor whose physique is reminiscent of another kung fu star, Sammo Hung, and this dude is not only lethal in more ways than can be counted but in some ways is in better shape than any of us are likely to be. The person who assumes that such a "jolly" fellow is harmless is the person who's looking to have his lips ripped off if he gets out of line with anybody in that dude's vicinity.

[Cush]

104. uh, yup....I was always the short kid in school

really didn't have a major growth spurt until my senior year of high school (I was maybe 5'1 when I started hs). Even now I'm only about 5'6 (almost 28 yrs old, so no more growing)

[Dastard Stepchild]

107. Yup...

When I was a young gal, and all my cousins would be gathered around playing, one of my older relatives would say, "ahhh.. at least she'll be the smart one." Because I was a heavy little child. And could not possibly be adorable. :eyes:

I've never been particularly...errrr...chesty, so I've not really felt like some of my female friends who complain about how sexualized they feel. I used to dislike my rather flat chest until I realized that in some ways it made my life a lot easier.

[Tesibria]

108. Yes (and great conclusion - too often forgotten by all)

I was 5'9" - in 5th grade - and weighed 80lbs -- 5 of which, it seemed, were my goggle/glasses (very very farsighted). It was ASSUMED that I was a total geek. (Ok, I was, but in part i'm sure b/c of pre-conceived notions by my teachers.)

I'm still 5'9" (but no longer anywhere near 80 lbs thank goodness) - and have contacts now. But I still see it happen, all the time, at work - that people make instant assumptions re: you based on your looks.

Someone new starts at work, and she's beautiful (per current stereotypes) - too many people assume that she's dumb - that she got the job on her looks.

Someone new starts, and she's not "beautiful" (defined per current stereotypes re: beauty) -- and people think she must be really smart.

Someone new starts, and she's really unattractive (according to current sterotypes re: beauty) -- and people think she must be REALLY REALLY smart or have a powerful senator as a father or something.

I'm not sure who gets it the worst -- all of them -- because their "worth" is assumed based on their looks.

[Meowser]

109. The 'Don't Hate Me Because I'm Beautiful' complaint only goes so far

in real life. Spend twenty years climbing the corporate ladder while raising a family, and then come back and tell us what your experiences are. I am more of a lurker than a poster to DU, so I don't know you. Judging by the posts on this thread though, I would say a therapist and some life experience may change your world view.

[SarahB]

110. Whatever.

I'm 33 years old, have children, am in the middle of a divorce, a stressful job, working on a second degree, have a shitload of life experiences, and more strength than you can possibly imagine.

My only problem is men I barely knew here, looking at my picture, and instead of a nice compliment, call me "sexy, etc." and it felt a bit overdone. If that qualifies me as having some sort of disorder, call me guilty. Thanks for your wise addition. :eyes:

[Meowser]

112. I didn't mean to be harsh. I assumed you were in your teens or twenties

and honestly, with all you have going on, why are you focusing on these trivialities? If the biggest problem you have is worrying about how someone perceives you, then you're better off than 90% of the people in the world.

[SarahB]

113. I'm not focusing on it.

I hope this damned thread dies right here with this post. I just felt intensely self-conscious when I wrote this earlier not realizing it was going to be misconstrued and turned into some flame-fest on me.

Obviously, it's not my only problem, nor am I a trivial person. I'm more than that which is the entire point.

[Meowser]

115. Do the moderators lock threads if you request it?

maybe you should ask so that the thread does die. I've seen a lot of flames, some warranted and some not. But maybe it gives you food for thought.

[SarahB]

116. Sounds like a plan.

I'm not above self-searching (all I seem to do really), but I think this thread has entirely outlived it's purpose.

[LSdemocrat]

111. Yes, because of my skin color

I don't think people are as open to randomly starting a conversation with me partially because of my skin color. I should note at this point that I am a relatively dark-skinned person of South Asian descent.

I also don't think that it is conscious racism, but I think many people just gravitate toward people who look like themselves, taking into account a number of factors like race, gender, body type, type of clothing, etc. I'm sure if I made more of an effort to talk to people I wouldn't have this problem, but unfortunately I am naturally shy and reserved, although I am open to talk if someone initiates the conversation.

[imenja]

114. Overweight in America

of course

[EstimatedProphet]

117. Locking

Original poster's request