MatcomNews Update: Man Who Wanted To Hunt Cats Receives Death Threats

[matcom]

<snip>

LA CROSSE, Wis. -- The Wisconsin man who's asked the state to allow hunters to kill stray cats says he's been getting death threats.

Mark Smith told La Crosse police he's gotten angry phone calls and messages at work and at home.

Police reports said one call made while Smith was working at the La Crosse Fire Department suggested it should be "open season on firefighters." Another woman told Smith that if the state Legislature approved his request Smith would be hunted down and killed.

Smith has asked the Wisconsin Conservation Congress to vote on his proposal at an April 11 meeting. That vote would be advisory. The Legislature would have to consider the proposal before cats could be hunted.

Smith has proposed that any cat not under the owner's direct control or wearing a collar should be considered fair game for hunters with small-game licenses.

Cat enthusiasts are trying to organize opposition to Smith's proposal. Ted O'Donnell, a co-owner of MadCat Pet Supplies, has said the proposal is a "callous response" to the problem of cats preying on wild birds. He recently set up a Web site to inform people about it.

http://www.wftv.com/family/4274951/detail.html

[steve2470]

1. 1- he's a sick puppy, 2- that's my local TV station :-) nt

[foxy]

2. How sad is this world coming to?

[Goldeneye]

3. This is probably an aside

and I suspect I know the answer, but do DUers generally disapprove of shooting feral cats?

[foxy]

4. I just think if they are going to do it they shouldn't flaunt it...

Now everybodys feelings have been hurt. If they only knew how many cats there actually would be if this didn't happen every day already. If cats could only learn how to practice safe sex.

[Goldeneye]

5. I haven't really been paying attention to this.

What happened so that everyone's feelings are hurt?

[Squeech]

6. There are lots of people

who trap stray and feral cats and bring them in for neutering or spaying. I've done it myself. (That cat still lives in the neighborhood and has never forgiven me.) I think there are charities devoted specifically to this practice. The more feral animals get treated, the less of a problem they are.

[Bertha Venation]

10. TNR advocate here -- and I actually put my money (real money) where my

mouth is.

There are too many cats. All I can do is try to control the population on my little acre+ of earth. TNR is the way.

Be sure you have their ears tipped when they're under the knife. The vet lasers off about 1-2 mm from the top of the right ear. It's a signal to those in the know (and to those we continue to educate): "this cat can't reproduce."

[kick-ass-bob]

20. 1-2mm?

I had a hack then...
They took a good half to 3/4 an inch off of one - that we later adopted.

[Bertha Venation]

21. Well, they sure wouldn't be able to miss that, would they?

Not necessarily a hack. Maybe your vet knew the protocol but not the guidelines. :shrug:

:bounce:

[kick-ass-bob]

32. we regret having that done (the ear thing) since we ended up keeping

her.

Couldn't be too much of a hack - they did them for free.
We sent them quite a few cats - that can't be cheap for them.

:)

[Bertha Venation]

35. There's a clinic about an hour south of me that does VERY low cost

spay & neuter. $40 for a neuter, $60 for a spay. Includes vaccines & ear-tipping. Microchipping is $15 extra.

I think many veterinarians have better hearts than MDs. :shrug:

[kick-ass-bob]

36. they definitely do.

We rescued a little kitty (sickly looking and mother abandoned) and took him to the vet. "Lucky" had some seizures and the vet checked him out for free. He seized a few more times, so we had to have him put down. He did all this for free. A heart can't get any bigger than that.

That vet has us for life -- with our paying animals! ;)

[blindpig]

12. they are still a problem for song birds and other wildlife

Why is it that we don't have feral colonies of dogs? Could it be that feral dogs are a danger to property(livestock) and humans. But since no one owns that which these cats destroy then it is no big deal. To me this is just another example of the tragedy of the commons in that proponents of free roaming cats continually deplete the commons(in this case, wildlife)by by promoting and supporting said cats.

Of course domestic cats are but one of many problems faced by wildlife, the primary one being excessive human population. But is a problem easily solved. Treat cats the same as we treat dogs, easy.

[Squeech]

13. We don't

(at least not much)

But some cultures do, e.g. Bali.

I would conjecture that it has to do with the fact that we're used to concepts like leash laws, which assume that every dog is the property of some human who will be responsible for its care and its behavior. We don't make that assumption about cats. I do think this is a rational response to observed differences in canine and feline behavior, but there are consequences for issues like this.

[Bertha Venation]

22. oh, jeez....

Here we go again.

[blindpig]

37. yep

honestly, I wish that this topic wouldn't even come up here, it is so divisive. But when it does I can't help but be an advocate for wildlife. There's too little left and too much of everything else.

[Bertha Venation]

38. I see your point, but it seems that wildlife faces much greater threat

from sprawl & crawl. I know it does around my own back forty.

[blindpig]

40. not the greatest threat to wildlife, to be sure

That's us.

But let's say a patient has cancer and a broken arm. Do we ignore the lesser malady because it's not the worst thing going on?

We're just not going to agree on this, you value cats, I value wildlife. But please keep in mind the enormous numbers of birds that will migrate thru eastern Maryland soon, they do not restrict themselves to pristine habitats.

Peace

[Bertha Venation]

41. Peace to you too

one thing more -- I also value wildlife. :hi:

On that note I'm signing off for the day.

'night, all

[Bertha Venation]

24. "If cats could only learn how to practice safe sex." --click my sig line.

[Misunderestimator]

29. They should learn abstinence.

:) (joking)

[Bertha Venation]

30. LOL

Let's get a Faith-Based Initiative to teach the cats not to have sex!

After all, every time you masturbate, God kills a kitten....

[Misunderestimator]

31. Yes! And we should outlaw kitty abortions and spayings.

After all, if God didn't want them to have lots of little feral kitties they wouldn't have them. Who are we to intervene? Instead, we should just declare them terrorists... then we will have carte blanche to kill thousands indiscriminately. Problem solved. (/sarcasm)

[Bridget Burke]

15. He doesn't just want to shoot "feral" cats....

But also any domesticated cats wandering around outside.

My cats are inside cats. I believe this is the best policy for their health & the environment & encourage other cat owners to do the same.

But deciding to shoot offending cats is not the way to deal with the problem.

[Zuni]

18. fuck no

I am not anti-hunting, but no one eats cats. It is cruel and unnessecary violence against animals

[davidinalameda]

42. actually

some cultures do eat cats

[amazona]

50. no one eats cats???

On my income in the high four figures, I'd already be quietly trapping and eating the pest cats on my property that my neighbors refuse to control if not for our insane and inane laws on the matter.

Other people in my parish are already eating them, just not enough people to keep the problem contained.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Cadence]

58. What the???

You're so poverty stricken that you wish you could kill and eat cats yet you're on a computer with an internet connection?? WTF?

[Dave Reynolds]

60. I second the WTF?

[amazona]

49. apparently our native songbirds come second to feral cats

<big sigh>

I might be the only DUer here to be upfront and honest and acknowledge that, yes, I defend the ecosystem, my bird sanctuary especially on my own property, and our native wild birds against any feral cat. And I strongly support the right and the obligation of all other concerned humans to do the same.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[NorthernSpy]

54. "bird sanctuary" = baiting wildlife for ones own amusement?

It seems to me that "bird lovers" are themselves causing much of supposed predation problem that they are so up in arms about...

[Goldeneye]

56. bird sanctuaries are baiting...oh please.

I'm sure its mutually beneficial...the birds get food and possibly a bath, and people get to watch them. Where's the benefit for birds in cats killing them?

[Goldeneye]

55. I'm with you.

Cats are hunters by nature. These cats are exotic--they don't fit into the ecosystem. When the environment is in so much danger you'd think keeping muffy indoors and getting rid of the feral cats wouldn't be such a difficult choice. Cats kill millions of songbirds everyday and annually they kill more birds than run into windows, towers, or are run over by cars. I know people like their cats...I have a cat. But I'm also a bird watcher, and I realize that many birds are in trouble. I can understand why there is resistance to shooting cats, but its a neccesary evil. There are too many cats and their numbers will only increase if something isn't done. Besides people should keep their cats inside for the cats sake as much as for the birds sake...they could be run over, get rabies, or be carried off by some aggressive raptor. People need to accept the position we're in and move to correct it... In this case I think that means shooting feral cats.

I don't see what the point of neutering them and then returning them to the wild would be...they'd still be killing birds, but they wouldn't be able to reproduce, so I guess that's better than nothing. And catching them and putting them to sleep is fine with me if someone is willing to pay for it.

[chenGOD]

7. Songbirds? Thinking of?

Could it be?

[radwriter0555]

8. so what's the solution to the massive overpopulation of cats in the USA?

They really are very detrimental to our environement.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

11. Massive neutering.

If you think it would be too hard, well, my Mom always told me the easiest way is not always the right way.

[Bertha Venation]

9. Let the fool come to Southern Maryland. I'll reverse my stand and buy a

gun to discourage him from "hunting" my feral colony.

Assclown.

[zanana]

14. If anybody ever hurt one of my pets...

He'd have to move very far away and change his name.

[Samurai_Writer]

16. But think of the songbirds!

You know someone had to say it...

Bella, owner of two beautiful, senior cats.

[Zuni]

17. I feel no sympathy for him

I'm glad he is recieving threats.

This man is a cold blooded freak and deserves no sympathy

[RetroLounge]

64. Do you miss the irony of your statement

while including a quote from Jesus in your sig?

RL

[AngryAmish]

19. Cat owners are dangerous people

Potential serial killers.

[hyphenate]

34. Better believe it!

Those of us who adore cats have absolutely NO problem telling cat haters where to get off.

Believe me, when I read the original article on this the other day, I was prepared to go to Wisconsin personally and hit him upside the head with a blunt object. Thankfully for him, I can neither travel at this time, nor could I muster enough energy to do so. It seems that many animal lovers have far greater resolve than I have, though.

The ONLY solution to the overpopulation of animals is spaying and neutering. It's easier and less traumatic to neuter the males, but in the end it's better for the population to spay the females.

Many people play host to a wide array of ferals as well as owning indoor cats. What horror this could do is beyond imagination--if it ever went through, cats would no longer be under the auspices of the SPCA--they could be handed over to Fish and Game instead, and even more cruel and inhumane measures would--and could--be used against them. Anyone found being cruel to a cat would not get as stiff a penalty or punishment because the laws under F&G are far more lenient.

It's sort of like what happened in California, where ferrets are illegal because they're not considered as pets, but as wildlife.

[slackmaster]

46. Meow!

[KyndCulture]

59. Only if you are messing with my cats... then YES I am... nt

[CatWoman]

23. HAH!!

I unleashed my Army of the Night on him!!!!!

[TX-RAT]

26. Your cat Trinity looks just like our Tazz

[CatWoman]

28. Trinity is the sweetest of the bunch

:D

[Medium Baby Jesus]

25. Hope the guy has a fast bicycle...

I'd hate to Write his obit...

[Ellen Forradalom]

27. It's good to defend the cats

but it sounds like some folks have gotten a little irrational. Threaten to kill the guy who is threatening to kill the cats? That's not very logical or helpful.

[dpbrown]

33. Cats that are not on a leash or at home are killing wildlife

I'm with this guy.

70 million feral cats, an exotic, noxious species, are killing wildlife in the United States. Add simply "stray" cats and that number's higher.

If there were 70 million deer-killing dogs roaming free, people would be outraged.

It's simple to require that cat owners follow the same laws as dog owners. Either your cat is at home, or it's on a leash.

If it comes into my yard to kill birds, it's dead.

DPB

[slackmaster]

44. You would kill one of God's beautiful creatures

Just for doing what God created it to do - Killing some of God's other beautiful creatures?

[dpbrown]

63. Hell, yeah. Humans turned them into half-domesticated psychotic killers

The same way I'd kill a lamprey eel, the same way I'd rip out buckthorn, the same way I'd wipe out a few English sparrows.

Invasive foreign species, left unchecked, ruin the world for everybody.

Come after my happily twittering birdies, kittie-cat, and BLAMMO! little fuzzy lunchmeat for the local Sharpshinned Hawk.

[BigMcLargehuge]

39. Dear Mr. Smith...

Meow meow meow... meow? MEOW!!!! Meow, meow-meow-meow, meow meow, purr, hisss, meow. Meow, purr, spit, meow-meow-meow!? Meow! Hiss, spit, hiss, mrowrrrrrr! Hiss! Spit!

Meow,

Fluffy

P.S. Hiss!

[NorthernSpy]

43. counter-proposal: Ban birdfeeders!

A birdfeeder is essentially an unnatural quantity and concentration of food intended to lure wild species into convenient viewing range of humans. Birdfeeders draw unnaturally high bird populations to the immediate vicinity of these central food sources; ultimately, this results in far greater prey-taking opportunities for both domestic and feral cats (and other predators) than they ever could have enjoyed otherwise.

If there's some kind of predation-related avian holocaust underway, then -- before doing anything else -- why don't we go directly to the source of the problem, and stop allowing people to bait wildlife for their selfish viewing pleasure?


Mind you, I suspect that if it came down banning birdfeeders and shooting cats, or doing neither, most of these supposed bird-lovers would probably decide that the kitties aren't such a problem after all... :eyes:


So yeah: whenever anyone gets on his anti-cat, "pro-wildlife" highhorse, we need to start talking about birdfeeders and why we should look into shutting down these sordid little restaurants of death.

[slackmaster]

45. They're not bird feeders, they're CAT FEEDERS!

The wildlife that happens to come on my property comes there at my pleasure. There is no native environment within a long distance of my home. I've partly made up for the destruction of bird environment by planting trees, and the wild birds (and some exotic ones) use them for nesting. If my pet cats serve to cull the weak, old, and sick ones, that's good for the birds.

[NorthernSpy]

53. only in the most severely compromised of environments...

... could predation-pressure from cats tip a bird species over the edge into extinction. And you are quite right that predators do play a role in maintaining the health of the species they prey upon.

Me, I think that in most of North America, bird populations aren't significantly endangered by either birdfeeders or cats. The real problem is heedless development and the wholesale habitat-destruction that it represents.

The other problem is that some people suffer from a silly, unrealistic view of nature that leads them to demonize cats and other things with nasty big pointy teeth.

Shucks, I bet squirrels and other rodents destroy more eggs and nestlings than cats ever could. They're also more numerous than cats and far better, more agile climbers. So I guess we will have to have a war on squirrels once we're finished with the cats...

:eyes:

[slackmaster]

57. We have birds out the kazoo in San Diego County

It's considered to have the most species of birds of any area in the lower 48 states of the USA. I've seen Peregrine falcons, four species of hawks, three species of owls, five kinds of hummingbirds, several kinds of herons, egrets, etc., California quail, mourning doves, robins, black phoebes, various finches and sparrows, thrashers, nuthatches, thrashers, robins, jays, and jillions of migratory songbirds in or near my humble suburban yard. The mockingbirds can be annoying when they sing all night in the summer.

If you want to see birds, come here.

One of the problems I have growing tomatoes every year is feral parrot attacks. They fly around in flocks of about 6-12 birds, or superflocks up to about 100. I'm glad to have them around but they eat one bite out of each tomato berry at the moment it reaches perfect ripeness. They're not afraid of cats, and I've never seen a cat try to catch one.

[amazona]

47. oh man I wish I'd sent a letter of support to this guy

I knew his views would be unpopular and cause death threats -- been there, done that, got the T-shirt -- but then put it on the "somebody else's problem" backburner.

Sometimes someone has to have the courage to say something unpopular because it is always an inconvenience to society at large to accommodate our feathered friends.

Sigh. I know this.

<head in hands>

Mr. Smith, if you're reading this, please know that other birders do appreciate your courage in standing up in this very difficult issue. Someone has to be willing to take the potshots or one day all our baby birds will be down a cat's throat or chopped up in a wind farm or their habitat logged for development...or...you know the rest. It is always unpopular to do the right thing.

A toast to a man of uncommon courage. He knew when he made the proposal what the consequences might be. Every birder knows.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[NorthernSpy]

52. LOL!

<head in hands>

Mr. Smith, if you're reading this, please know that other birders do appreciate your courage in standing up in this very difficult issue. Someone has to be willing to take the potshots or one day all our baby birds will be down a cat's throat or chopped up in a wind farm or their habitat logged for development...or...you know the rest. It is always unpopular to do the right thing.

A toast to a man of uncommon courage. He knew when he made the proposal what the consequences might be. Every birder knows.

Aw, take your head out of hands -- long enough, at least, to tell your fellow birders to quit goddamn baiting wildlife for their selfish viewing pleasure. They'd find much of their supposed problem solved tout de suite, if only they'd do that one little thing.

[Rabrrrrrr]

48. My God, what a bunch of asshole loser ignorant fucks

Yeah, the guy has a hairbrained ignorant idea, but Christ in a Steely Dan T-Shirt, you don't go making fucking death threats to people just for coming up with dumb ideas, especially ones as lame and impractical as this one.

I hope he reports every one of those threats and that the DA prosecutes the people making them.

I won't tolerate people making death threats to people who are pro-gay or who feel that 9-11 should be investigated or who have democrat stickers on their cars. I certainly can't tolerate death threats to this guy.

[RetroLounge]

65. Yeah, makes me wonder who is more hairbrained & ignorant

This guy, or the stupid-ass cat owners who threaten human life.

Whatta bunch of freaks.

RL

[barackmyworld]

51. Don't forget that frist killed kittens!!

UPI

"Frist acknowledged in a 1989 book that he routinely killed cats while an ambitious medical student at Harvard Medical School in the 1970s. His office said it had no record on how many cats died. Frist disclosed that he went to animal shelters and pretended to adopt the cats, telling shelter personnel he intended to keep them as pets. Instead he used them to sharpen his surgical skills, killing them in the process."

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021231-071056-3546r

[JohnKleeb]

61. I am sure you know that animal cruellity is sign of a serial killer

Now we have to ask Frist's parents, did young Bill piss his bed.

[Dave Reynolds]

62. Again, I ask the question:

Not to you alone, Matcom, but everyone here.

Why does no one mention the natural predators that eat the cats? My parents have for 30+ years have fed outside (feral) cats. They tame some and bring them in the house, or find homes for them.

But the number of cats on the property has been at a stable number for all that time. There are plenty of coyotes and foxes to take care of adults, and raccoons to eat baby kittens.

The food and shelter spots provided to these cats are less than 10 feet away from bird feeders and a birdbath (which the cats use for water). The birds also use this birdbath. I just called home (for the sake of this statement) and asked, in all that time, if they remember any bird or bunny shortage, or if the cats had any great skill at catching birds. They said no. I asked them if they have seen predators around at the times of cats disappearing. They said yes.

I reach back in my mind for basic biology. When there is an abundance of prey, predator numbers increase. When there is a shortage of prey, predator numbers fall.

I'm sure someone will show me a study showing how bird numbers are just falling like anvils, I will merely answer that I would consider the source of the study. Anyone with an agenda can cook up some numbers, I will just go with what I have seen.