Zimmer apologizes

[JohnKleeb]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2003/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1636790&partnersite=espn
Just letting you guys know and go sox and go home yankees. Remember Sox fans, the deal I made, you guys get the division next year and my O's get the wild card :D

[Muddleoftheroad]

1. Good luck

The Orioles under Angelos couldn't get the wild card if the deck were stacked in their favor. And it's not. It's stacked in the Yankees favor.

Baseball has allowed the lack of a real salary cap to destroy the sport. People like Angelos only speeded up the process.

[JohnKleeb]

2. Thanks, I hate Angelos

Even though lol we agree politically, Peter is a big contribuator to the party but his handling of the Davey Johnson thingie in 1997 made me wanna :puke:. Now we suck but we may get Eddie Murray managing yea hes inexperienced but a good PR move, and we may get Guerrero :), well maybe I will root for the new DC team if they come here.

[HuckleB]

11. I assume you're speaking of Vlad.

If he doesn't stay in Montreal, who's going to pay good money for the 'Pos? Not an owner that I would want in my city, that's for sure.

[JohnKleeb]

12. Yeah I am

I wanna get rid of Angelos :argh:

[HuckleB]

36. I know the feeling.

I'd love to get rid of Paul Allen, owner of the Blazers and Seahawks, and his scumbag minion, Bob Whitsitt. Alas, I dont' think I'm going to see that for a long, long time.

Just be happy that you're not an Arizona Cardinals fan. Those poor folks are stuck with the, hands down, worst owner in professional sports.

[JohnKleeb]

37. I thought the Bengals had the worst owner

[HuckleB]

39. Nope. Not even close.

The Bengals have been competitive, in the playoffis, and in the Super Bowl much more often than the Cardinals. Granted, the Bengals have been the worst team over the last few years, but the Cardinals are working hard to regain that mantle this year.

[JohnKleeb]

47. well wasnt the guy's father a good owner then he died

and his son the current owner took over.

[HuckleB]

48. Yes, but he took over 20 plus years ago...

...perhaps more.

[Muddleoftheroad]

59. Eddie maybe, Vlad never

Angelos is too much of a dick to spend the money for Vlad. The Orioles are consigned to second-class status until baseball makes a real salary cap. It's sad.

[JohnKleeb]

60. yep

maybe something will cause him to sell the team. :argh:

[Drifter]

3. Zimmer should be banned from baseball ...

Any coach that leaves the bench (or their position), to engage in any type of fight, should be banned from baseball for life.

Pitchers who hit batters should be ejected and face a 25 game suspension. The reason this type of behavior is tolerated is because it is not duly punished.

Zimmer should thank Pedro for not kicking him on the way down.

BTW, as an A's fan, my hatred for the Red Sox is nearly as much as for the Yankees, and I would still gladly see the Yankees lose the WS to the Marlins. Keep the Jinx alive.

Cheers
Drifter

[JohnKleeb]

4. Marlins? they are down 3-2

Well I am an Orioles fan despite my avatar Drifter in all actuality, I dont hate the Sox really although I hate them when they play the O's but I hate the yankees. Bitter memories remain of 1996, and Yankee fans ought not deny the fact had we won game 1 had it not been for Jeffrey Meier and heh I hear Tony Tarasco is still playing, then game 2 as we did, we would had momentum going in to Baltimore.

[dajabr]

5. Or, just get rid of the DH...n/t

[MaineDem]

6. Exactly!!!

Did anyone wonder why Roger didn't pitch at Shea (was it last year)?

[underpants]

7. Three years ago

2000-NYM vs. NYY (the worst TV ratings ever for a World series)
2001-Arizona defeats Yankees
2002-Anaheim Angels defeat SF Giants (Dusty coudl got to two in a row with different teams)
2003-????????????

[CPschem]

8. FYI: Roger DID pitch at Shea

in typically pathetic Mets fashion they tried to hit him but threw a fastball behind him. After a warning from the ump they didn't try to hit him again, fearing ejection.

[MaineDem]

13. I'm pretty sure that was a different time

The time I'm thinking of, Torre changed the rotation so Roger wouldn't pitch in that series. I know he's pitched there since.

I could be wrong; this old brain, and all. :)

[Braden]

15. you would be correct

Roger was supposed to pitch at Shea the Following week if I remember correctly then Torre changed the rotation.

Roger finally faced the Mets in Shea the next year. and as mentioned by a previous poster the Met Pitcher missed him.

[underpants]

9. Baseball is played without the DH

I don't know why they keep referring to the AL as "baseball".

[Uzybone]

28. I agree

ban the DH. It has messed up baseball. At least people who oitched inside in the old days (like Gibson) knew they had to step in the box. Cowards like Clemens and the totally classless MArtinez hide in the dugout and throw inside becasue they know Jeter or Someone else will get the beaning on thier behalf.

[regularguy]

49. But ya gotta admit:

It is *very* similar to baseball. Very similar.

[CPschem]

10. Red Sox deserve to lose once again

They are a completely classless team and they've been showing it the entire post season. Manny continues to act like a foolish, cocky whiner, whether he's walking to first base after his first RBI of the entire last series or charging the mound after a high pitch from Roger. Pedro stared the whole situation the other night when he hit Kareem Garcia intentionally for no reason other that he was pitching like a chump. Then he points to his head and says he's going to hit Posada in the head next at bat... classy classy guy. But at least after starting a brawl and embarrassing all of baseball the Sox were able to regain their composure and win the game... oh, wait a sec..

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Braden]

18. Special Ed Teacher attacked

I like how you imply that he was drunk.

PS Garcia IS in legal trouble.

http://www.boston.com/news/daily/12/redsox_report.htm

read the police report.

[CPschem]

23. Literally yesterday's news.

since then it's been announced that no charges will be persued against any parties involved. Also thanks for the "Boston.com" link.. totally impartial i'm sure. From now on i'll quote the Daily News.

[HuckleB]

24. Can you give us a link?

To the updated story about no charges being filed?

[MaineDem]

26. Boston.com = Boston Globe = NY Times

Face it, your claims are groundless.

Come up with a link about the BPD not filing charges and you're in the clear.

[HuckleB]

29. I found one.

OK. It's the NY Times, but I haven't found the Times to be unfair in regard to this story.

Anyway, no arrests are pending, but a summons may still be forthcoming.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/13/sports/baseball/13PINS.html

[MaineDem]

32. I guess I don't understand a "criminal summons"

I'm thinking that's a charge but I don't really know.

[HuckleB]

35. I'm no lawyer.

But I believe a summons is the official manner in which the legal system brings people before a court hearing in order to gather their testimony as evidence. Summons can occur whether or not one has been charged, I believe.

As Shaughnessy noted, it's basically impossible to tell who began a bar room brawl, and I suspect that the police have plenty of contradictory evidence on their hands. Top it off with the emotions surrounding the matter, and it's not surprising that someone in charge felt like things needed to slow down a bit. It may be a while before the snowy picture of what happened becomes the blurry picture that we're likely to get at best.

One other thing, though. I don't think it's proper for Red Sox management to publicly take a side on this matter. They don't know what happened down there, so they've got no reason to make such statements.

[Braden]

33. yeah the boston police are making it up

boston.com is the website of the Boston Globe. Ever heard of it?

[Name removed]

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[SiobhanClancy]

40. Don't call people "losers"

It's very rude. Besides,in case you don't know it it's the TEAMS who are playing the game,not the fans.

Happy to help:)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

41. Calling names is against DU rules but since you're new

you may not be aware of that.

All of us New Englanders are perennial losers-nice generalization!

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[SiobhanClancy]

51. Don't worry...

I doubt if he'll be with us much longer:) I alerted on him,too...my first alert EVER.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

52. I'm assuming that it's already happened-he hasn't responded

for a while.

Maybe they should drop a bunch of prozac in the NY/NJ Water supply. The histrionics are truly incredible... and I'm sure it's much milder here on DU!

[HuckleB]

42. Dude, chill.

That kind of crap is uncalled for.

[Name removed]

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[Kathy in Cambridge]

53. Boston Globe is owned by the unbiased NY Times

don't forget!

[MaineDem]

19. "the i think Garcia would be in some legal trouble"

Umm... "Boston police plan to seek criminal summonses tomorrow against New York Yankees pitcher Jeff Nelson and outfielder Karim Garcia for their part in Saturday's Fenway Park bullpen fracas that knocked Garcia out of the game and sent a Red Sox groundskeeper to the hospital, police officials said yesterday."

Looks like he very well may be.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

31. Um, dude, Boston police filed THIS report and are filing charges tomorrow

http://www.boston.com/news/daily/12/redsox_report.htm

"While performing a paid detail at Fenway Park, Det. William Dunn, assigned to the Red Sox bullpen, and Officer Michael Pankievich assigned to the Yankees bullpen. Approximately 7:10 p.m., between the top and the bottom of the 9th inning, while standing outside of the bullpens and facing the crowd (and also bullpen occupants), Det. Dunn and Officer Pankievich observed a pitcher (Jeff Nelson) from the Yankees, approach the victim (who was standing in the corner of the bullpen). At this time (what appeared to be) a verbal confrontation ensued between the victim and Jeff Nelson. Officer Pankievich proceeded to that location in an attempt to separate the parties. While enroute, Jeff Nelson was observed pushing/grabbing the victim in the chest area at which time both parties fell to the ground where Jeff Nelson began punching and flaring his legs at the victim. At that point numerous other members of the Yankees bullpen jumped on the victim (some striking the victim and others attempting to break up the melee). The right fielder (Karim Garcia) from the Yankees was then observed jumping the right field wall, into the bullpen and begin striking down at the victim with his left hand. With the aid of other officers and Red Sox security staff, the parties were separated ending the incident. Further investigation revealed victim sustained numerous injuries, transported to Beth Israel Hospital and treated for injuries to his head, mouth and body (including what appeared to be numerous cleat marks). D899 Dets. Tierney and Gill responded to the Beth Israel Hospital where they further interviewed the victim and photographed his injuries. Lt. Kelly McCormick of Area B-3 forwarded witness information to Det. Dunn and P.O. Pankievich regarding their eyewitness account of the incident where they stated they observed member(s) of the NY Yankees baseball team initiate an unprovoked attack upon the victim. Summonses to be sought in Roxbury District Court for assault and battery on both Jeff Nelson and Karim Garcia of the Yankees baseball organization."

[Name removed]

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[Kathy in Cambridge]

45. Yes, a whole region of the US is full of losers

and Republicans. These delusiinal Yankee defenders are grasping at straws.

I see a tombstone in his future...

[SiobhanClancy]

46. LOL...me,too

Wonder how many alerts have been sent on this guy?:)

[HuckleB]

22. OK, yeah, sure, you betcha.

It's interesting to me that, for many posters, it seems like the "blame" for the game three goings on must be either/or. It's either all the Yankees fault or all the Red Sox fault. And I just don't see how either position is defensible.

I'll offer Peter Gammons' (correct, IMHO) take on the madness of game 3, as point of departure from the either/or crowd:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1636542

[CPschem]

25. Both teams are to blame.. but the Sox DID start it.

Pedro started it by hitting Garcia intentionally- period.

[HuckleB]

30. Yes, but that's no excuse.

It never worked for me as a kid, and I don't buy it from anyone, child or adult, now.

[Braden]

34. I guess you missed Garcia spiking walker then?

[jarab]

58. Not that you need further defense

but I do agree with much of what you say.
"Perennial" loser means losing year after year. True of the BoSox.
If Sox fans would stop blaming the losses on the (curse of the) Bambino, where would the blame be? I don't believe in curses; the Sox are perennial losers. And, Babe has nothing to do with it!!
I would presume that pitching, hitting, coaching, management and errors etc could have something to do with the pathetic post-season ineptitude (year in and year out) of the Boston Red Sox.

...O...

[MrBenchley]

57. Agreed!

I think Pedro shoving Zimmer was the scummiest thing I've ever seen in baseball....

[peekaloo]

16. Zim's had an extra day to "cool off"

Wasn't just a wild hair that sent him charging out on the field.

:dunce:

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

20. Not all of the blame should be layed out on Zimmer

The Red Sox didn't exactly show a heck of a lot of class either.

[JohnKleeb]

27. netural on this, redsox aint my team well agaisnt the yanks they are

[welshTerrier2]

21. Let's Get a Few Things Straight

zimmer's apology, as commented on extensively in today's boston globe, took a lot of class ...

if you really care about the facts, the stat they showed on one of the telecasts the other night was that the red sox pitchers have hit 50 yankees to only 24 red sox being hit by yankee pitchers ...

the league, unless you think they are biased, fined two of the red sox: martinez $50,000 and ramirez $25,000 while fining the two yankees: garcia $10,000 and zimmer $5,000 ... i would suggest that the intent of the league was to set the amounts according to the degree of responsibility for the actions committed ...

route for whatever team you want, but let's assess responsibility for the violence in the fairest possible manner ...

from today's boston globe (by a boston sports writer):
source: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2003/10/13/martinezs_reign_should_end/

snip

Which one would you rather have now, Sox fans? Roger Clemens -- who kept his composure and behaved like a professional Saturday night, winning the game for his team despite his obvious anger? Or Pedro, the baby who hits a guy after he blows a lead, then points at his head and at Yankee catcher Jorge Posada, threatening "you're next"?

snip

Sox fans don't like to hear this, but Pedro was an embarrassment and a disgrace to baseball Saturday. He gets away with it because he's Pedro. And the Sox front office enables him, just as they do Manny Ramirez. Just as they did with Roger when he was here and Yaz when he was here and Ted when he was here.

snip

Maybe it doesn't matter to Sox fans, but that fuzzy Cubs-Red Sox World Series may not be America's dream matchup anymore. The Red Sox have done a lot of damage to themselves in the last two days and last night's ridiculous press conference featuring John W. Henry, Tom Werner, and Larry Lucchino only contributed to the madness. In violation of the commissioner's order (don't these guys remember that Bud Selig ordered bagman John Harrington to deliver the team to them?) the three amigos stood up and defended everything that happened Saturday, including Pedro's obvious head-hunting.

snip

[Shakespeare]

54. God, Zimmer broke my heart with that apology...

...and this is from someone who takes the position that Zimmer instigated the encounter by rushing Pedro (a position I still maintain). I saw the video of the apology this morning.

I stand by my previously stated suspicion that he's suffering some of the nasty side effects of long-term prednisone use, in which case my heart goes out to the guy (my dad deals with this, so I know what it's like). Still doesn't excuse the behavior, but goes a long way in explaining it.

As I promised one poster last night, I emailed a friend of mine who's sports editor of a major US newspaper (name withheld to protect his anonymity), and he agreed it's an interesting and relevant question. A snippet from his response to me:

<<I had no idea there was even such a drug ... Goes to show what I know. And, yup, I'm in Boston right now and will stay with the baseball playoffs through the World Series. I know one of the Yanks' PR people pretty well, I'll check it out.>>

This has relevance beyond the Zimmer/Martinez incident, too--the chances are quite high that many, many retired players have to take prednisone regularly (because they retire with bodies battered by their respective sports), and it would be both interesting and educational to know how many suffer from the side effects, and how they cope with them.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

55. I said I felt bad for him-rage is obviously a big issue in his life

has been since he coached the Sox from '76-80. His teary-eyed apology to his family hints that this isn't a problem just in his professional life.

[Shakespeare]

56. I don't know that I'd classify it as "rage"....

Prednisone can, like any steroid, make you very aggressive and subject to serious mood swings. It's something to be pitied, and I'd be very careful about insinuating that he's got anger management problems (something that's quite different from the mood-altering effects of a drug he may have no choice but to take).

People are pretty well aware of the effects that illegal performance-enhancing steroids have on athletes, but many people are completely unaware that prednisone can do the same thing. What's most tragic about it is that those who are on the drug have no other options for treating chronic problems, so you have a lot of very ill and very old people coping with these terrible side effects.

I'll update (in case anyone cares) if my friend gets an answer from the Yankees on this.