The Official Yankees - Red Sox Game Four Thread

[Blitz]

The game isn't until 7:30 p.m. EST, but we may as well get started early. Here are the essentials:

David Wells (15-7 4.14 Regular; 1-0 1.17 Playoffs) faces John Burkett (12-9 5.15 Regular; 0-0 6.75 playoffs) after yesterday's bizarre game in what has to be a considered a near must-win for Boston.

Many questions surround this game:

1. Will Burkett have it together against the Yankees? Burkett beat the Yankees in the playoffs in 1996 while pitching for Texas but has otherwise been terrible against the Bombers (0-6 with an 8.49 ERA in his career against New York in the regular season). The Boston bullpen has been outstanding of late and if Burkett gets in trouble, we may see them very early.

2. Will Juan Rivera start over Garcia in right field? If he does, will Garcia roam Fenway protecting innocent Yankee fans from the Beantown mob?

3. Will Wells be sober? He's been terrific in the postseason throughout his career (9-2) but, all things considered, he could have gotten into a fight with the rest of the Boston groundscrew overnight . . . or simply overdosed on chowdah and Sam Adams.

4. Will the game even be played? The forecast calls for rain but you know that MLB is desperate to have the game played. Of course, since Boston and the Big Apple are only a short flight apart, it's possible that a game can be played on a travel day (Tuesday) if conditions don't allow for today's game. This would be a huge advantage for Boston (IMO) since it would allow the possibility of Pedro pitching (in relief, at least)in game 5, if necessary.

5. Will someone get beaned in the first 3 innings and will Ramirez hang-in against inside pitching? If there's a brawl, will Pedro be looking for septagenarians and octagenarians to "sidestep? Will Zimmer be looking to lay the smack down on Ramirez and "cowboy up" on Mueller?

6. Will the Boston grounds crew/special forces cheerleaders continue in their malicious attacks on the saintly Jeff Nelson? Will the Red Sox just set up seats in the Yankee bullpen and sell tickets to the first 50 fans who arrive at the ballpark legally drunk?

7. Will the Yankee bullpen pick a fight with the scorekeeper ... in the Green Monster ("that SOB put up that Boston got a run ... if he wants to root for Boston he should go to ... um ... hey! there's the team bus!")?

8. Will all of the beer in Fenway be replaced by near-beer from now on? Will Wells still be able to get a cold one between innings?

Have at it and have fun.
Especially if you're a Boston fan, because it won't last much longer ;) .

[RedSox02]

1. For those that missed last nights game, here's a recap

Pedro tried to intentionally kill Karim Garcia. Then Pedro told the Yankees bench he was going to drill them all in the head and eat their children. Then after Garcia minded his own business sliding hard into second base ( no he wasn't trying to cleat Walker or anything), the Red Sox got mad. Then Pedro seeked out Don Zimmer, charged him, and grabbed the blameless Zim by the head and tried to snap his neck. I think he attacked Zimmer from behind but I could be wrong. Then the tame classy Jeff Nelson wasupset that a Fenway employee was rooting for the Red Sox, so he had to dish out some justice.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

2. Thanks for that unbiased report, RedSox02!

LMAO!

:hi:

[joeybee12]

3. The Yankess are Gods, can do no wrong

It is a crime to criticize them.

Anything they do is justified.

They have just hired John Ashcroft.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

5. Any criticism of the Yanks is a violation of the Patriot Act

All Red Sox fans will be punished accordingly!

Gitmo here we come!

[Tigerlily]

20. LMAO

That's pretty close to the way it's being reported. :crazy:

[Shakespeare]

27. Actually, it's being reported pretty fairly....

LA Times covered it pretty straight; blamed Zimmer for going after Martinez, but also blasted Martinez for taunting the bull pen.

It's here on DU that the Sox are apparently the most atrociously evil beings ever to set foot on a baseball diamond. :eyes:

[Shakespeare]

25. ROFL!! I heard Pedro blasted a rocket-fired grenade at Garcia's head!

And that Garcia was so incredibly awesome that he was able to finish out the game sans head. Listed as questionable for tonight.

Also found out that what Pedro was REALLY saying to the NY bull pen was that he was going to rip off their heads and shit down their necks, and that's what he was attempting to do when he chased Zimmer all over the field.

Then he retired to the bull pen and tortured some kittens for awhile.

[Blitz]

42. Nah

There was only one Rocket on the field yesterday and he was Magnificent.

[wellstone_democrat]

38. This Sox fan agrees with that recap!

But, I think that the real plan for Zimmer was that Pedro would stun him and Nomar was gonna come out on the field and eat Z's brains with a spoon.

At least that seemed to be what the dimwits on Fox sports seemed to be saying...

[stopbush]

39. I think that's pretty accurate, except

that I believe Pedro said he was going to drill them in the heads...and then eat their heads.

[RedSox02]

4. OK now I will answer seriously

AS nervous as I am about Burkett, this pitching matchup is probably even given that the Red Sox have gotten to Wells a few times this year. I think Suppan would be the first out of the pen if Burkett gets in trouble but Suppan makes me more nervous. Here is a case where the Yankees extra spending really shines through. The Sox only have so many arms to throw at the Yankees. The Yankees have an unlimited supply. Take Contreras away from the Yanks and put him on Boston and that alone is a big turnaround but doesn't neutralize the Yankees advantage here. Boston is a big spender too but nowhere near the class the Yankees are. This will be an interesting game.

I have to believe Boston takes one of the next two and it goes back to New York. I hope we win but when it comes down to it, the Yankees have an advantage.

[joeybee12]

7. If The Red Sox can win only one at Fenway, they're in good shape

They seemed to do better in the series at Satan's Lair during the regular season.

Anyone got stats on how they did there during the regular season?

[MaineDem]

6. If you take out the melees

It actually was a good game yesterday.

Both pitchers had their moments. The offense had their moments as did the defense with some key double-plays on both sides. And it was only a one run game.

I could have done without the unpleasantness.

How's the weather look for tonight?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

10. It's supposed to rain-I think a day of rest will cool both teams off

although they may not cancel-it's pouring here right now.

[joeybee12]

11. I think both teams will be restrained tonight

Maybe last night they got it out of their systems.

Always one game like this in the series.

[SiobhanClancy]

12. I'm hoping for rain

Exactly as you say...a day of cooling off would be good.

[RedSox02]

8. Here are the NY Post's headlines this morning

I especially like the "PSycho Pedro" and "PEdro slam sends Zim to hospital" An uninformed person on the street sees this and thinks an old coach was attacked. No mention that he charged Pedro.

[SiobhanClancy]

9. There's an unbiased headline

lol...what a rag. Even worse than the Herald.

[MaineDem]

13. Good grief

First pic looks like Pedro is kicking Zim. Notice in the second one it looks like Zim's hands are around Pedro's neck.

Fair and balanced... :eyes:

[Shakespeare]

29. It's a Murdoch rag. Whadya expect?

They specialize in hyperbole.

[stopbush]

40. Misdirected energy. If either Zim or Pedro went after Bush

with that much verve, we'd all be happy here at DU!

[Braden]

53. looks like the Weekly World News!

Batboy eats Batboy!

[Blitz]

54. And this morning . . .

[Submariner]

14. Pre-game fights anyone

If you feel like mixing it up with some non-Red Sox fans join the melee on the MLB boards.

http://www.forums.mlb.com/ml-mlb

[Blitz]

15. Kick

Who says we can't play nice???

[HEyHEY]

16. GO SOX!!!

FUck dem damn Yankees. ANd their old ass tough guy.

What kind of 72 year old can't even beat up a pro athlete?

[Blitz]

17. Predictions for game 4?

My prediction:

Yankees 7
Sox 5

Home runs for Nomar, Mueller, Giambi, Posada
Double for Williams
Wells goes 5 1/3 and gets the win, Burkett gets the loss and leaves in the 3rd, Rivera pitches 2 innings for the save.

[HEyHEY]

18. I think

6-4 Soxs

Big game for Jeter, Nomar, Manny.

two home runs for the sox...one for the Yankees.

two charges of assualt one of agrivated assault..possibly some charges of libel.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. 13-2 Sox

Wells folds like a cheap tent.

[maveric]

21. I thought that last nights game would be the determining factor...

in this series but it has come down to tonight. You go down 3-1 to the yanks with 2 of the next 3 games in Yankee stadium, well you can kiss the dream goodbye.
Burkett has to pitch the game of his life tonight, and THE SOX HAVE TO SCORE SOME RUNS!!!!!!

[Blitz]

22. You know, You were right the first time

Last night's game WAS the determining factor. At least that's the way that it looks from here.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

23. The Red Sox are a different team than in '99

don't expect them to fold like in the past.

[maveric]

28. RR, I'm trying to be positive but I'm snakebit.

I've been watching the Sox since I was 5 (1960), and I can sense when a pattern is developing. I've seen it too many times.

I want them to win but have a sick feeling about it after last nights game.

Lve the Sox. When I was a kid I ate,drank and slept the Sox but I also know how not to get too optimistic to eliminate that total crushing depression that may follow.

Burkett has to pitch the game of his life and the offense has to score at least 6 runs to win this one.

Go Sox!

Hail Mary Full of Grace.....

[Blitz]

34. Different from '99?

How about
'98 (lost to Cleveland in the ALDS, 3-1)
'95 (Cleveland again, swept in the ALDS, 3-0)
'90 (Oakland, ALCS, 4-0)
'88 (Oakland ALCS, 4-0)
'86 - I don't need to remind you, do I? OK (The Amazin' Mets, in the Series, 4-3)
'75 (Cincinnati in the Series, 4-3)
'67 (St. Louis in the Series, 4-3)
'46 (St. Louis in the Serioes 4-3)

Oh, and let's not forget 1978 and Bucky, bless him, Dent.

The Red Sox are The Red Sox are the Red Sox. They're like a force of nature and they do not change. If they ever won I'd feel awful for Boston. It would be reduced to little more than Cleveland without the really cool stadium.

[SiobhanClancy]

36. Sweetie,Boston has a lot more to offer than Cleveland

But to each his own...everyone is entitled to an opinion,however misguided:)

[HuckleB]

24. Here's to a great baseball game.

As for the extra-curricular activities, this guy says it all, in my opinion. And I don't care that he works for the Times, and is, quite apparently, a Yankee fan. He is honest and correct.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/12/sports/12CND-ALCS.html

[SiobhanClancy]

26. Pedro,Manny,Garcia and Zimmer

all getting fined by MLB.
http://www.boston.com/news/daily/12/redsox_fined.htm

[Shakespeare]

30. Just heard that on the news--seems appropriate to me.

They were all bad, bad boys yesterday (yes, even Zimmer). Let's hope EVERYBODY chills the hell out today.

[Blitz]

32. That's true

let's hope that the fines are appropriate given the actions and relative salaries of those involved (i.e. I don't think a $20,000 fine means a thing to Ramirez or Martinez but (I think) it's a giant chunk of change to someone like Zimmer).

I hope it's a great game ... maybe a pitcher's duel ... I love those.

[Redneck Socialist]

67. Try $50,000

for Pedro. I Know he makes a god awful bunch o'cake, but still that's alot of cash.

[Blitz]

70. That's about right

as were the other fines. I have no problem with any of them.

[MaineDem]

31. I figured that would happen (nt)

.

[Cheswick2.0]

33. the reason the Yankees will win

They have better choreography

[SiobhanClancy]

35. Lol..that's actually cute

I like it!:) Would this be the choreographer?

[WilliamPitt]

37. The Sox have been magnificent all year

at making solid comebacks after devastating defeats. Burkett is not solid, but neither is Wells. This may be a bullpen battle, and the Sox have a slight edge there.

Bring it on, yo.

[Blitz]

41. Magnificent?

That's a word reserved for teams that manage to actually win their division.

Surrender, Dorothy. It's over.

[TopesJunkie]

55. The Sox have an edge in the bullpen?

Interesting. That's definitely not an opinion that I've seen before.

[VolcanoJen]

43. Game postponed. :-(

Another rainy Boston night... :-(

[Blitz]

44. Game postponed due to Boston's inability

to control the rowdy weather in their town. Yankees owner George Steinbrenner points out that this sort of unruly percipitation would not be allowed or tolerated in New York. Mayor Bloomberg demands that Boston officials arrest the ONE responsible.

Hey, didn't it rain on Sunday, October 26, 1986? I think that it did. Which delayed the inevitable after a devastating Game 6. Deja vu.

[VolcanoJen]

45. I've never, ever been angrier at Mother Nature!!

Weren't we all on pins and needles waiting for that game?

Ahhhhhh!!!!!!!

[Blitz]

48. You realize, of course

that this sets up a potential game seven ... between Rocket and Pedro ... in the Bronx.

It would almost be worth having Boston win a couple to see that.

[MaineDem]

46. sigh

:eyes:

[SiobhanClancy]

47. Maybe Repuke Bloomberg can have Pedro arrested

next time he comes to New York:)

[Blitz]

49. A kick

for a new day.

Mussina pitching for the Yanks today. Who's pitching for the Sox?

[HuckleB]

50. Wakefield.

It's a game one repeat.

[Blitz]

51. The Red Sox must be thanking their lucky stars

that they didn't have to pitch Burkett. The Yankees have absolutely pounded him over the years. Wakefield is tough. He's probably the best non-Pedro pitcher the Red Sox could have hoped to throw out there. It should be a great game.

[Blitz]

52. "It's a game one repeat"

Well, except for the result, hopefully :) .

[MaineDem]

56. I hope everyone enjoys the game tonight

Sit back and enjoy. :)

[VermontDem2004]

57. GO SOX!!!!!

Booo republicans!!!!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

58. Uh-oh, VermontDem, those are fightin' words!

You may get a few negative comments from our Yankee fans!

[VermontDem2004]

59. I don't care

Some say the Yankees are america's team. Well I say they are corporate America's team.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

60. I'm with you there-it's all about money to Steinbrenner

and the Yankee franchise.

The Sox and Cubs have heart.

[Blitz]

61. We know that they have talent

between Martinez, Ramirez, Nomar and an excellent supporting cast.

Whether or not they have any heart is yet to be determined.

[VermontDem2004]

62. Already determined

They were down 2 games to 0 against Oakland and fought hard to win 3 straight games and the series. It could've been very easy for them to give up.

[Blitz]

63. Oh, come on

At least give the A's a little credit for gift-wrapping that series for the Sox. They made more mental mistakes in those last three games than Pauly Shore on Jeopardy.

Besides, it could just as easily be argued that the Sox had no business being down 2-0 to an inferior team.

[maveric]

93. Hey Blitz! Where were the great yankee fans before Steinbrenner

and his big repuke money bought the team?
Everywhere but yankee stadium! 2000 rabid fans in the stands. Nobody gave a fuck about them.
Now granted the Sox have suffered throughout the years, but they have always packed the house. Good or bad! Win or lose! Best fans in baseball.
New Yorkers are FAIR WEATHER FANS and you know it pal!

Sox in 7!

[Blitz]

95. Um, Maveric

Steinbrenner bought the Yankees over thirty years ago. But if you want to discuss ancient history, let's do that:

Before Steinbrenner bought the bombers in 1973 they outdrew the league average every year since starting play in Yankee stadium in 1923. After Steinbrenner bought them they fell slightly below the league average for a few years in the '90's (before Torre & Cashman turned the team around). The Yankees NEVER had a season when they drew a couple of thousand per game. Their LOWEST average attendance was 7,979 in 1943 (during the height of WWII, which was still about 25% higher than the league average that year.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/yankatte.shtml

You're confused. You're thinking of the Red Sox, who barely stayed afloat in the 20's and 30's, drawing a pathetic smattering of fans to watch bad teams kick the ball around (averaging 2,366 in 1932). As for modern times, there's no comparison. The Yankees outdraw the Sox by about 8,000 to 9,000 fans per game, every game over the past few years. That's right. Knowledgeable baseball fans would rather brave the South Bronx than watch the Red Sox.

http://baseball-almanac.com/teams/rsoxatte.shtml

Since 1920 the Yankees finished first in the league in attendance 41 times (35 before Steinbrenner bought the team). The Red Sox and their loyal fans? Six times and none in over a quarter century.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/attend.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/attend.shtml

I know it's easy to call Yankee fans "fair weather" since Boston's had nothing but clouds for the last eighty-five years while the Yanks have won 26 titles in that time but the numbers don't lie. Hey, how about this: If the Red Sox fans had come to the park the way Yankee fans did, maybe the team could have afforded the players that would have won them some rings. Just a thought.

[Blitz]

64. If Boston loses this series

Do you think Grady Little will get a few questions about repeatedly calling a hit & run with struggling batters and slow runners (3 strike-em-out / throw-em-out double plays so far). It seems like very poor managing. In this past half-inning if Miller doesn't get thrown out at second the Sox would have had 1st & 3rd (or 2nd, at worst) with one out after Nixon got his hit.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

65. I agree with the poor management-they need to play small ball

Nomar should bunt since they can't count on his power right now.

[MaineDem]

83. I thought those were poor decisions

I was surprised.

[Blitz]

66. Sox draw first blood

Let's see if the bombers can respond. It looks like they're getting guys on but aren't able to do anything after they get on ... The Yanks need to start running, I think.

[Redneck Socialist]

68. Ok, I know I am late...

coming to this post but everyone should check out Jim Caple's articals on ESPN.com. Very funny stuff. Here are a couple of links.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2003/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&id=1636859

http://www.espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/031013.html

[Redneck Socialist]

69. By the way...

Sox are up 2 to 1 with runners on second and third! Go Sox!

[HuckleB]

71. Looks like both LCS's are going at least six games!

Sweet!

The playoffs are incredible this year!

Woo hoo!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

72. Jinx! The Curse!

Just kidding!

:hi:

[FlashHarry]

73. Drilled! Not again!

Lots o' boos. Have they stopped serving brew there yet?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

74. The crowd is brutal: NEL-LIE!

What was going on with that pitch? He almost hit Nomie.

[JohnKleeb]

75. Almost got this one sealed Boston

:) great

[FlashHarry]

76. Ugh. HR Yanks.

C'mon, Sox, put it away!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

77. SOX WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:bounce:
:bounce:
:bounce:
:bounce:
:bounce:

[FlashHarry]

78. Sox Win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Series tied!

[Redneck Socialist]

79. RED SOX WIN!!!!

Woooooooo Hooooooo!

[MaineDem]

80. Oh my oh my oh my!!!!

I was so nervous!

They're my boys! :yourock:

[Blitz]

81. It's going back to New York

What a ride!!

Seriously, is there anyone who doesn't want to see Clemens-Pedro II in the Bronx??? I'd love for the Yanks to take it in 6 but, wow, what an event that would be.

[SiobhanClancy]

86. I think we all would

with a good pitching duel and no extras:)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

87. Really? I thought it was Yanks in 5 the other day?

Looks like you're just spinning.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

91. The Yankee fans are laying low tonight

I'm sure we'll hear from them when Nelson and Garcia receive summonses tomorrow.

[Blitz]

92. That was when I thought Burkett was pitching game 4

I felt pretty good about that match-up. No worries; the beautiful thing about the Red Sox is that they always give their fans hope.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

88. A Pedro/Clemens rematch would be great

let's just hope there's no benchclearing brawls, and the Yankee fans behave.

[SiobhanClancy]

82. Happy happy joy joy!!!

Beautiful!!!
:bounce:

[MaineDem]

84. Mussina 0-3 in postseason

Did anyone ever think that would happen? I sure didn't.

Boston's bullpen has been terrific (minus that one homer tonight.) It's about time "the committee" clicked.

This is good.

[JohnKleeb]

89. As a Yankee?

He won games for us(Baltimore), still pissed off at Petey Angelos.

[Woodstock]

90. I saw it coming - most O's fans can't stand the guy

Picture the way Sox fans feel about Clemens, and you'll get a good feeling for how most of us feel about Mussina.

He doesn't have the stomach for the big games.

[JohnKleeb]

94. Yep

I didnt know you were one as well. College Dude is also one. Ive endorsed the Sox against the yankees being I hate the yanks, do you remember Jeff Meier Woodstock? I am still mad.

[Ellen Forradalom]

85. My poor Red Sox fan of a husband is nearly dead of anxiety

but he did manage to emit a weak 'Yay.'